New Florida PIP Law
 

After reading a little bit about PIP, I am not sure I would want to be a resident of Florida.


That looks like legislation gone wrong.


I will also add... Florida in general, looks like an insurance nightmare when it comes to P&C related insurance...

Add to the P&C insurance mess the new FEMA changes for flood insurance.... it looks pretty bad.

It would be good if you cited some provisions, bills or proposals that you think are wrong. Without additional information its hard to respond to you one way or another.

The FEMA changes relative to flood insurance are not unique to Florida. With regard to Florida PIP, other than being extremely difficult to read, what parts of the statute concern you?

You read the post in the Medical Forum.


When one has insurance x2 (PIP and medical insurance) and cannot get medical treatment for injuries that is a pretty major issue, and more than an inconvenience.

IOW, one is forced to buy PIP to own a vehicle and register it. Then the outcome is the benefits are negated because medical providers don't want to deal with it.



https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...atment-107021/


I did some internet searches and this person is not experiencing an isolated incident. Look for yourself, it appears to be fairly common!

Who wants to have to fight the system to get medical attention... when they have paid x2 for insurance!


I you look at the law there are some obvious problems in it. There will probably be more to emerge. That 80% clause is a big rip too. You get injured through no fault of your own... It turns into your liability! No fault in Florida appears to mean the injured is liable for the first $10k.

What will be the next development.... something absurd like making the injured post a $10k bond before treatment begins?

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine



If you can't find a provider to begin treatment in 14 days, do you lose your benefit???.... that you had to buy per statute!

P&C Insurance (including flood) has been such a moving target in Florida in terms of what it means to residents and property owners. PIP is not looking like an improvement for consumers.

As a youngster in the insurance industry I wrote a thesis in support of New York's proposal for No Fault (PIP). After its implementation and moving to a number of PIP states and actually dealing with ever PIP state in the union I reversed my opinion. Many states revamped their original policy, some states dropped it altogether I don't have a dog in this fight and hence not interested in debating it any longer. I will suggest that people read their insurance policies carefully and slowly to understand their rights. By law insurers are required to explain all of your rights under any policy of insurance

Personal Best Regards

No Fault's purpose was to make sure everyone would be treated if injured by an auto in Florida. Prior to the no fault law one who was injured by someone else would still be liable for medical bills and courts were their only choice to recoup from an at fault party. Sometimes that took years with no guarantee they would ever be reimbursed. Many injured would have a huge financial burden trying to pay medical and rehab bills. Many filed bankruptcy.

No fault will pay up to $10,000 medical, loss wages and household expenses. The new law states that one must see a Doctor within 14 days to determine injury. This law was passed to try and prevent fraud which has totally gotten out of hand in Florida. Medical payment coverage pays in additional to no fault.

If the other party who is at fault and does not have sufficient Bodily Injury limits to pay over and above your no fault limits then you collect under your uninsured/ underinsured motorist limits.

It is true that many doctors do not treat patients who are filing under their no fault which is required by law. However, if your insurance company and agent can not help you find a Doctor then you should look for another company.

Last thing to pay after all auto limits have been exhausted is your health insurance.

Guess what, it is not working out well!

Rationale aside. It is not ok!

Plus, what you described is not any sort of solution.

The fix will require the legislature to make changes. But that might take years as the lobbyist fight it out ... between the insurance companies and medical providers. Consumers are now stuck in the middle worse than ever!

I guess talk to Morgan & Morgan! According to their television advertisements they are trying to get to get the 14 day rule changed. Or perhaps "cash in" on the 14 day rule!

I noticed that too. And wondered what it referenced. Now I know thanks to GatorFan.

The initiative was driven by the FL governor Rick Scott.

Unfortunately, it appears that the crack down on medical providers was more than some medical providers could/would tolerate.

Florida Gov. Rick Scott PIP abuse: Governor meets with top law enforcement officers to discuss PIP - Orlando Sentinel

I didn't read it that way. AND it was favorable to Governor Scott. Usually the Orlando Sentinel is biased toward the other side.

Oh yes... its all a big conspiracy.

Do some reading.

PIP original was a social solution for accident victims and addressed the problems associated with the liability laws in various states. It was a good thing on paper but like any program making money available there is going always going to be people who abuse the system.

PIP is one of those populist topics and so those abusing it can spin it in their favor . I suspect many of the problems associated with refusal to pay benefits has to do with suspected fraud and abuse

While claim denial might be a problem.

IMO, this is the big problem: https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...atment-107021/

I worked as a nurse in the PIP world in NJ and a lot of what I see in this bill is the same .We did however require claimants to have treatment precerted for a list of DX for the neck and back .Max benefit in Nj was 250,000.00 and the 80% was on the first 5,000 in claims.When this first started in Nj no one like it but the cost and fraud were so bad something had to be done.I an sure the law will be revised many times as the problems are discovered and the people who commit fraud find a way to beat the system

Apparently the legislation has already gone through several revisions.

This latest one is extremely restrictive.

Interesting article.

This just sets up a situation where Medical Insurers will fight with the P&C Insurers... Who pays?


No wonder some people are denied service from certain medical providers. They don't want caught in the middle trying to file claims and bill. Ultimately going after the person receiving treatment if the claims are denied.

Will state's no-fault car insurance law be reformed or replaced? | HeraldTribune.com


Here is some general information about no-fault and PIP.


Making a No-Fault Claim Under Your Insurance Policy | by Nolo

A picture is beginning to form. This legislation is likely a nightmare for any people visiting FL that end up injured in an auto accident... with that 14 day provision... much less the other potential entanglements due to differnces in insurance coverage form state to state.

Florida has 87M visitors a year.


Unfortunately it does not appear that there is a uniform code/law from state to state for this sort of thing. It appears that it could require a law suit.


http://www.coyelaw.com/downloads/Out...eAccidents.pdf



It might be a good idea to talk to your insurer if you are a snowbird. How do they deal with no-fault and PIP cross state lines.


IOW, it looks like visitors might get caught up in FL PIP too.

Hi stroglass: I handled the first PIP claim for my company in New York when it was first enacted under Gov. Nelson Rockefeller. I was asked to move to Human Resources and as part of my job initially hired many a PIP nurse...great people. I also recall when the major insurers pulled out of New Jersey in the 1970's over the issue of PIP an d New Jersey started the JUA.

PIP is a good thing but certain segment of society chooses to abuse it and if the public really knew to what extent they would be outraged. But the prevailing spin by these opportunist is that there are no victims because its free money from insurance companies

Cést la vie

Here is one nightmare that recently played out in the FL Supreme Court.

Supreme Court rules against Geico in PIP dispute - Sun Sentinel


Of course, my POV is from the perspective of someone that abides by the law.


You have to wonder how the insurance companies would determine who would have to give a deposition under oath before getting benefits?


It sounds a bit intimidating to me.


Nevertheless, it sure sounds like a hard ball tactic!

Hi JourneyOfLife: I agree it should not come to this. However, the devil is in the details. I would be very interested in knowing why treatment was refused. It is surprising that this has occurred and so you surmise that this is not normal, I mean you don't refuse someone treatment unless you feel you have good cause not to and since it is not normally done you can bet that there are some pertinent facts here that warrant examination
I would not care to speculate

My issue...

I pay a lot of money for insurance.... top notch insurance!

Pay double... accident insurance and medical insurance.

I expect to get my benefits if I need them. Why else have it?

You would think legislators would come up with an approach to fight fraud that limits collateral damage.

That 14 day rule is just out side of the pail IMO.

The next step might be for legislators to force Florida medical providers to accept the insurance.

But what about people that live in other states? There are 87M visitors to FL each year. It appears if they have an accident in FL... they may be stuck with PIP consequences too.

pip
 

I guess Florida dosen't need you anyway

It would be a sad day indeed for FL, if the message to people ended up being; like it or lump it.

Keep an eye on what the Florida legislature does this session regarding insurance of all types. They have six more weeks to go, and the consumer never seems to benefit.