What would happen if an EMP bomb or solar flare disrupted our electrical grid?
 

I've recently learned about the potential of either an EMP bomb (electromagnetic pulse bomb), or a significant solar flare, to totally disrupt our society by completely disrupting our power grid for a very long period of time. It would eliminate all electrical power, so NO communications or operating cars or refrigerators or water/sewage treatment plants or food distribution or medicines or deliveries of anything to anywhere.

Reportedly, this is entirely possible, by either a normal action of the sun or by an EMP bomb set off in the atmosphere over mid-America. Such a bomb exists and is available to unfriendly irresponsible countries who only need launching capabilities.

My question is, what would you do in this event? I'm thinking many of us would die in a very short period of time. I'm also thinking that this is a forum of well-educated, bright people who know things. Please enlighten me.

I remember reading a book a few years ago about surviving the economic collapse in Argentina. Can't remember the name of the book, but it was written from first hand experience.

Being prepared is always wise. I myself would stock up on non perishable foods, medicine, cash, etc etc. Almost like you would for a hurricane, but for a longer period of time. Would love to have a ham radio.

Hopefully this would never happen, I'm too old to survive long....LOL....

Current technology EMP bombs would only directly impact all electronics/electrical items in a relatively small radius of probably less than 10 miles. If you were inside that radius you would be impacted but help from nearby could arrive rather quickly. It would take thousands of them to disable a large region for more than a short period of time.

FYI most critical military equipment is EMP "hardened" to survive this type of attack.

One EMP could disable a power plant which would impact a larger area with a power outage but would not damage individual electrical/electronic items beyond that smaller radius.

When I heard about this, I did some reading on it. Knowledgeable articles and opinions by experts say the technology has evolved so that now one sizable bomb could knock out power to a sizable portion of the country, and that 3 or 4 of them can completely disable the whole country. As could a sizable solar flare, which apparently has happened many times in earth history, before the advent of electricity, so would have gone largely unnoticed.

I then read a novel about it, based on facts, by Wm. Forstchen, reportedly a man of reputation and in the know. The title of the book was 'One Second After'. That really got me thinking about what in the world we would do. Very scary because it seems so possible.

FWIW, EMP only affects modern electronic devices with clock crystals, not all electrical devices. Older cars, most smaller generators, basic refrigerators, most lighting, etc would be unaffected. Basically anything with a chip in it is vulnerable. I wouldn't worry about it; a pandemic plague is much more likely, but then again, so is drowning in your own bathtub!

The novel "One Second After" by William Forstchen describes life in the US after an EMP attack. He also has a website www.onesecondafter.com

I read this book and it seems quite plausible.

Have read several books in the past ten years describing what would happen if we were hit with an EMP (see, I really do love sci fi). Some interesting theories as to how apocalyptic it would be. Barring the serious survivalists, I'm not convinced most of us would ultimately survive, at least not those in a retirement community -- would require more strength and knowledge than most of us have. So, I'll keep living my life the best I can and like Scarlet keep on thinking, "Tomorrow is another day."

there are many more less scientific events that could have just as devastating impact on how we live.....each much more likely than EMP.....

Oil supply disruption for 6 months to a year.
Gasoline distribution disrupted for 6 months to a year.
Contaminated/disrupted water supply.
Disrupted power supply, no electricity for 6 months to a year.
Infectious airborne virus.

Just to name a few.

How many could or would stock up to be self sustaining for up to one year for minimum two people? They would be in maybe 5% who might do it.

Every day that goes by the reality of something catastrophic becomes more likely whether caused by an enemy or nature or just the falling down and failing of our aging infrastructure.

That being said I am headed out to play some golf in the warm sun.

I heard that Mormons have warehouses full of foods. Change religions?

It is inevitable that we will loose electric power by some act of nature in the future. The domino effect on our electric grid system would not be able to handle multiple states borrowing from each other. The outage could last months or years depending on how damaged or how"fried" the system was. Personnel required to repair damage my not have the needed parts and equipment for the number of sites involved. These workers may also be involved in protecting their property and families in the insuring chaos.
Just a thought to think about.

Yes, the Mormons and the Amish might be good folks to know in this scenario. How many of us could live off the land tomorrow if we had to, even if we could get to it? Lauren, the sources I read agree with your assessment.

We often discuss this very subject amongst ourselves
 

We often discuss this very subject amongst ourselves.....
Terrorists would do more damage by just screwing up our power grid.

If anyone recalls the New York/New Jersey "blackout" of 1965 and the one most recently, perhaps 10 years ago?.........anyone living in tall buildings with elevators (Miami Florida condos?) (hospitals in TV) might be literally stuck......not a pleasant thought. In the heat?

Traffic lights wouldn't work.....thus, gridlock.

Gas pumps wouldn't work.

Our furnaces up north wouldn't work........we'd all freeze to death eventually unless we had alternate sources of heat, such as wood....

Although we could all exist in the dark, we'd not be able to live without our airconditioning in Florida........

And one of the major problems, in my humble opinion, would be that the banks, the supermarkets, computers (online shopping, etc.) would all come to a standstill. Business, in general, would stop. Banking and commerce would cease.

Talk about the stock market.

Does anyone remember the days when a "grocer" could tally up the purchase on the back of the brown paper bag????

Can you imagine a supermarket clerk doing that with large orders; people growing impatient in the long lines?

Plus, we'd all go nuts without being "connected"......

Having lived most of our lives in the northeast, and especially since the non existent Y2K in 1999, we and all of our friends and neighbors, family.... have habitually stocked up on foods and water, toilet paper and the like........to get us through the long cold winters up here......it's nice not to have to go out and shop when one has several full freezers and a totally packed pantry. Planning ahead is the key to a well stocked larder.

However, in Florida, the freezers wouldn't survive without electric. Up here, we could roll it out into the snow and cold frozen tundra we've just lived through.

In the summer months, someone would have to fish and hunt.
Perhaps "go back to the land" and grow veggies.....

It could all be done, manually......but life as we know it, and life as we prefer it, would no longer exist.

Imagine no gasoline? How would the pumps work without electricity?

Medical "machines" would stop. What about folks on dialysis or life support of some type. If one really thinks about it .......
war is not necessary to overcome........it can be done with lack of electricity.

One day without telephone service, computers, television, and all the creature comforts that our power grid supplies......unimaginable.

I hope someone responsible for keeping the power on has heard about this.:22yikes:

And what about a clean water supply?

What if all magnets on the earth are strengthened and join forces, could that crush the earth into space dust from an EMP Bomb?

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/The-Modern-Survival-Manual-Surviving/dp/9870563457"]http://www.amazon.com/The-Modern-Survival-Manual-Surviving/dp/9870563457[/ame]


THE MODERN SURVIVAL MANUAL: SURVIVING THE ECONOMIC COLLAPSE
Fernando Aguirre, author

I agree with your second paragraph. We always have cases of tall bottles of Poland Springs water......would increase that in Florida. Ditto, agree with your suggestion re cash. Cash is king. People wouldn't be able to access their bank savings accounts or use their credit cards. Cash is necessary.

Also, if possible, those who live near the ocean would be better off as they could at least fish.......even without a boat.
If they didn't live in a planned community, but in a normal house with their own land, they could garden for veggies, etc. and somehow exist...........not luxury meals but food.......seafood and veggies. Fruit trees would help out as well.

p.s My husband said we would freeze to death in Vermont. It has been a harsh winter, the worst we've ever encountered. At our age, chopping and stockpiling wood would not be an option.........perhaps a pellet stove, but even that is a daunting task.........with all the hills and uneven terrain just on one's own property, people would be better off in Florida..........perhaps with an ocean breeze?

What will happen first? EMP Bomb or economic collapse? I guess it would not matter, if you have a deep enough bunker filled with enough survival rations you will make it. I wonder how deep we can dig in here in The Villages before we hit the water table.

Union of Concerned Scientists wonder where our electricity comes from
 

http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_energy/smart-energy-solutions/decrease-coal/where-does-our-electricity.html#


Very interesting......stay with this slide show and then click on Florida (when map shows)......


Where does all of our electricity come from????
Where do our other resources go? For all states.
Wonders the Union of Concerned Scientists of Cambridge, Massachusetts

I think it will all boils down to the" haves and have nots" as far as who endures any calamity that befalls us
Those people who have the various resources including; sensible thinking, good health , guns food ,water,sanitation, shelter, medical provisions and barter goods, will survive most catastrophic events.
Chaos will reign,various gangs will join together using brute thinking and fire power. Those surviving will be in pockets of habitable areas. Problems of overcrowding, lack of the above provisions would lead to disease and depression. Would you and your loved ones want to survive in these conditions?

Good point about supplies including a gun. If you have the food without a gun it won't last as long when your friends find out your not armed.

You are right on target with your thoughts
 

You are right on target with your thoughts. Bartering will be especially important. Gold also will help with the bartering process.......plus any other basic goods you mention above.

Cities would not be a good place to dwell, in my humble opinion.

Alas, at our age.......we would not survive as well as the young.


(I still remember what devastation hit the elderly during Katrina; both in hospitals, nursing homes and out in the streets, on bridges, etc., without water, food, transportation.....a horrific memory, to say the least....and that was a natural disaster, not a terrorist attack, etc., etc.)

[QUOTE=senior citizen;856156]We often discuss this very subject amongst ourselves.....
Terrorists would do more damage by just screwing up our power grid.

[B][I]If anyone recalls the New York/New Jersey "blackout" of 1965

Yes, I remember it well. I was home with a 2-week old baby. My husband walked home all the way from Wall St. to E. 82nd St. A neighbor offered me candles. City police climbed the stairs and knocked on every apartment door. There was no rioting, very little looting. The blackout 10 years ago was not so peaceful.

Let's elect Mel Gibson or Kevin Costner as President. Both of them have had experience with this type of thing in "Mad Max" and in "Water World". chilout

Ha, " Waterworld". Too bad Dennis Hopper isn't still available!

A new life awaits you in the Off World Colonies...... Blade Runner

EMP is a low probability but high impact threat in the event it happens. The simple way to summarize the consequences of a successful EMP attack is the US would be transformed overnight into a mid-19th century economy ... ie no electricity at least not on the same massive and reliable scale as we currently enjoy (and take for granted too I might add)

The most likely perpetrator of a an EMP attack IMHO is Iran. The tactic would be to load a small missile each onboard several tramp steamers in a covert manner, get the ships somewhere in the Gulf of Mexico, Florida Keys etc and launch 3 or 4 to take out the Great Satan. They would go for a high atmospheric bursts.

The other implication of a an EMP attack is pretty much instant WWWIII ... ie no matter who the president is (left or right) there would absolutely be some type of nuclear retaliatory attack, even if we weren't sure who launched the EMP. It simply could not go unanswered.

We could do it.
 

Scenarios like this were commonplace during the Cold War but in addition to the EMPs wiping out unprotected equipment using electronic chips, there was the additional element of mass casualties.

And, the fact is that there is a lot of back up infrastructure in place to respond to a nuclear disaster. The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) was created to provide for continuity of government; disaster response to natural disasters was a secondary mission.

The fact is that people in the older demographic, such as our community, are more likely to perish in greater numbers in a short time than would be the case with younger, healthier populations. This is partly because of the loss of adequate medical support and supplies, and partly due to the decrease of food supplies and clean potable water.

Physically able people who have been active hunters, fishermen and outdoorsmen, and particularly those with camping equipment and supplies would be able to move to the woods and live off the land.

With the coming of winter, those in the northern states might find survival more difficult than those living off the land in the south.

In the cities it is likely that groups would form for mutual protection and foraging for food. And of course there would be roving gangs of outlaws that would prey on the undefended and rob them of their resources. Those who are armed and skilled in the use of firearms would be more likely to survive in these conditions.

We had a viable civilization before electricity was harnessed for our use. We could continue without it. It would simply require us to adhere to the oft-used Marine Corps slogan, "Adapt and Overcome."

.

In my previous post I mentioned the need to barter during a catastrophe . I began to think about what would be most valued in such a situation. I came to the conclusion that in the first few days, weeks, money and gold etc. may be valued BUT in time , the following would have a higher trade value.
Potable (clean ) water, foods high in protein and carbs,. Any and all kinds of antibiotics,antiseptic ,pain medication , medical paraphernalia ,vitamins etc
As time wore on some small communities could grow : herbs for healing,veggies or fruit from garden plots , raise and slaughter chickens pigs goats etc. Horses,bicycles guns and ammo would also be highly valued.
Yes , it would be back to the pioneer days of co operation between enclaves, protection against roaming outlaws ,and leaders with abilities to be firm and do what needs to be done .

Antibiotics, gas stabilizer, and things that go bang. Canned and dried proteins.

I spent 21 days without power after Katrina. It would take too many words to tell the tale, but in short, people who are motivated go getters and problem solvers end up taking care of those who aren't.

another of the Y2K scares foisted on the American people.
Its one thing to be pro-active and be prepared its quite another with the 24/7 nonsense being played out across television land with so called pundits coming out of the woodwork

We are becoming a nation of reactionaries.

Actually, I guess the first question is: are you going to adapt in place or become a refugee to an unaffected place? Obviously, if you stay in place you need either enough land to provide your own food or you need to provide a product or service in tall demand so that you can barter for your food. Either way you need to be able to fortify and defend yourself: police will only stick around for so long once the pay checks stop (and as money becomes more and more worthless). Before the dollar tanks I'd get a well dug, install rainwater collection and solar panels.

But most likely I'd head for civilization: trade everything I have for a tall stanced 4x4 jeep, two sets of tires (one highway, one aggressive off-road), multiple gas tanks, etc. and head for South America.

The Electromagnetic Pulse is generated by an atomic bomb. By detonating a large nuke over the US, all electrical systems would go out. Commercial aircraft would fall from the skies, Cars would collide as their electrical systems ground to a halt. Water pumps would stop. A few have prepared and tested but most everyone else will be toast.

The people who advertise to us to buy emergency food supplies are not kooks, they know what is likely to happen. But anyone who stores food better keep it quiet and maybe arm themselves.

Can't say much more.

Might be good to diversify your currency now so that if dollar tanks you may still have Euros, CHF, NOK, or YUAN?
Will the deed compliance people look away as we plant our gardens? Will there be any water here? it is already scarce. How are you going to get fuel for your 4X4 when electric pumps down not to mention refineries?

A hand pump and a hose dropped into a filling station's holding tank would be one way. Plus the interstates would be littered with abandoned vehicles with fried computers and full tanks. Oh man, how'd I get sucked into this thread!? Been watching too much rEvolution and Walking Dead!

Doomsday Preppers vs. Eternal Optimists
 

I hear you. We, ourselves, have been watching too many "Doomsday Preppers".........I can't even imagine preparing an underground bunker to "exist in". Some of them are absolutely NUTS..........while some do have sensible, commonplace ideas for survival.

It does not hurt to have cash on hand (should the banks not be able to dole out your funds / and the credit cards no longer work due to lack of electricity, etc. Cash is King. It will be needed.

Definitely WATER as no one can live without water.
Especially in Florida. Ditto for basic non perishable food supplies.
Camp stoves to cook on.

Those young families (now back to the land or else practicing urban homesteading) with chickens for eggs, etc. and goats for milk, etc. will survive better than we will. Eggs and feta cheese will help one to survive. Put up veggies, ditto, from a home garden, which by the way I do not think is allowed in THE VILLAGES. Or, is it????? Are veggie gardens allowed in backyard?

Stockpiling gasoline in a hot climate does not sound like a good idea. The electric cars won't be able to "charge".........so those out west on ranches with horses, etc. would probably do better.

We'd all have to hope we are within walking or cycling distance of some "supplies".........if there are any available as the long haul truckers will eventually not be able to cross the country with the deliveries we take for granted. Anyone who has done a road trip east to west, has great respect for those long haul truckers, but without gasoline our supermarkets will slowly become empty, plus the clerks will not be able to run the cash registers.

Not a good scenario to contemplate.........no matter how one looks at it.

But in Florida, my number one priority would be gallons of water, rather than standing out in the baking intense sun for government doled out water supplies (as they did during Hurricane Andrew; that picture remains in my mind.......of the long lines, the hordes of people baking out in the sun , waiting for their water rations).

If a major catastrophe, as originally discussed, never happens...........the water and food will still come in handy during a hurricane or tornado.....

Being an eternal optimist is wonderful in many situations, however, it does not pay to have "ones head in the sand" with the condition the world is in at the moment. Even natural disasters such as earthquakes, could put one in
jeopardy.

P.S. The Miami Florida couple who bought one of our Vermont homes twenty years ago had been through Hurricane Andrew with some horror stories to tell, so I know what I am talking about. The wife was so traumatized by the aftermath of Andrew (their roof blew off........no water, no airconditioning, etc.) that she never wanted to return.
They stuck it out in COLD Vermont for eight years and then moved to Charleston, South Carolina.

What would happen if an EMP bomb or solar flare disrupted our electrical grid?
 

I have to say, I think you are very optimistic! Most vehicles would be disabled so supply distribution would halt overnight. I think that without vehicles and communications military and police protection would disintegrate almost immediately (as they either scatter to tend to their own families or fortify in place to protect their own). The panicked public, seeing no police presence and with no assuring communications from the Feds, would loot every unprotected source of supplies within days. I think things would then normalize for a while until those supplies begin to run out, and then the strong (or well armed) would begin robbing the well-stocked. Water would not be a major concern in most parts of the country as the gravity feed tanks would continue to provide clean water for a while, long-enough to setup rainwater collection and solar distillers.

The only way to adapt in place for TVers would be to turn the golf courses into farms and setup and armed perimeter. With an eye toward keeping morale high, perhaps TV should plan a raiding party on Kindred Spirits while everyone else is distracted at Winn Dixie ;-D (Just kidding, I'm not fomenting riots!)

This is a very realistic scenario, IMO. Especially the Kindred Spirits idea. After all, if bartering happens, you'd be in the proverbial catbird seat.

Yeah, you gotta know your audience! LOL!