Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

Yesterday we (husband and I) went to spend a few hours at the Chatham Pool. Had a lovely relaxing time. When we were leaving we decided to check out the Rec center. All I wanted to do was look at the rooms and familiarize myself with the facilities. The lady at the front desk asked to see our cards. My husband handed her his card as I was getting mine out of my wallet. She picked up a little scanning devise and we both asked why she was scannng the card. She responded it was a method of counting use of the facilities. We requested she not scan the card, we were , after all residents just looking at the center. She insisted she had to scan the card or her numbers would be off. I suggested she just make a note of ouring being there and add it to the numbers at the end of the day. Absolutely not, she needed to scan the card. We didn't press the point as she was getting very upset and officious. We left, not having had the opportunity to look at Chatham Rec.

Let me explain. I do not want my card scanned everytime I use a facility. I know they say it is just for head counts but I'm skeptical. There is a lot of information available on those cards and I do not feel it is necessary to feed my identity into a count every time I use a center or pool or any amenity. Don't remember being told that was required to take advantage of the amenities. Use it to prove I " belong" by looking at it ,no problem, feed it into a computer for counts (I think profile) no thanks.

I hate to sound paranoid but keeping your privacy these days is getting very difficult, this head count, if that is it's actual function, could be done without scanning.

Just my opinion, anyone else been scanned and how did you handle it. ::) ::)

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

Beady....I get scanned all the time...doesn't bother me; if it helps TV know level of usage of facilities, it helps them plan hours and staffing better. I doubt they use this data to profile anyone or create marketing opportunities. The other advantage of the card scanner is that it is matching your card to a current, master database to ensure you and the card are still active residents. Just looking at a card won't tell you that.

Sorry, topic cop, :cop: whereever you are...but, that brings up a related question...when someone leaves the Villages (through death or house sale), is there a process for reclaiming their Villages ID? If not, they (or someone) could use it forever.

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

scanning cards is a way to verify you are a current resident. if you no longer pay amenities for any reason your card will no longer be accepted by the scanner.
it's a procedure that was put in place a few years ago to assure our rec facilities are used by residents and their guests only.

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

Scanning all cards is a good thing. It is true that you can have a card that is no longer valid. We really don't want people here who are not paying. By scanning I cannot see where your privacy is being invaded. It is checking that you are allowed there not recording all your info.

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

I understand your feelings but sorry I am in agreement........Please show your pass....have it scanned and just smile like you really like the idea.

So many people complain about outsiders are using the facilities well this is a way to check if you are a current resident. Sorry

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

Hi I read that the villages wanted to scan both the husband and her IDs......I thought Beedy wanted to show the ID without the scan. I think that was the situation.

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

I kind of agree with Beady -- showing an ID is one thing, having it scanned is another. I really can't see the need and it does smack of Big Brotherhood.

That being said, I resigned myself long before moving to TV that my privacy was long gone, so another scan of my ID is pretty irrelevant. Unless I always pay cash, my shopping habits are known. The government always knows where to find me so long as I use anything that records my social security number. And so on and so forth. At least the scanning is innocuous.

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

Beady

You're being silly. Shame on you. How are you at airports.

JM

Gotta Disagree, Beady
 

Coincidentally, I attended the Residents Advisory Council meeting last week. One of the items on the agenda was the use of recreation facilities by non-residents. Some of the examples related by the head of the Recreation Department and Janet Tutt, the head of the central Villages District were amazing and disturbing.

It was pretty clear that the primary source of unauthorized use of facilities are Villages residents themselves. They are the source of the issuance of unauthorized guest passes; they sponsor large parties of non-residents at our pools; there is even a "ring" of talented residents who are now counterfeiting resident ID cards.

I think the bottom line is that each resident of TV moved here to enjoy the lifestyle and the recreation facilities that are provided. We each pay an amenities fee each month to fund the operation of the facilities. The Recreation Department is trying all kinds of economical measures to assure that the facilities that we all pay for are used by residents only. It seems to me that the requirement that our ID cards be scanned is a simple and effective way of assuring the use of facilities by residents only. If everyone took the same position that you're taking, how would the Recreation Department provide the security that we all desire? How long would it take before unidentifiable non-residents would displace some fee-paying residents from the use of "our" recreation facilities?

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

Good post Kahuna.
Get over that Big Brother foolishness. Those scanning could care less about anything other then that you are authorized to be there.

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

Did I hear someone say a little common sense goes a long way????
Well It certainly does and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that all cards have to be scanned to see who belongs and who doesn't .....It sounds much nicer to say we need it for a head count than to say"WE WANT TO SEE IF YOU'VE PAID YOUR DUES" Frankly I think if you refuse to have your card scanned you should be escorted off the premises...there is nothing on your card info but your name , address, telephone and status of your membership ............This might sound a little harsh but by your rules Charles Manson could have a fake card made and go everywhere in TV.........
a very surprised Fumar

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

Well, you all make a good argument for keeping the Village amenities for Villagers. I am really surprised that there are counterfit cards being distributed

I still think that just having a look at the facilities did not require a scan. And it would have skewed the daily count. As I said the lady at the desk was getting very agressive and my intention was not to cause a scene, just express my concern, so I left.

I still disagree with the practice. In the future I will put my annoyance aside and follow the rules, as distasteful as that will be to me.

As for my feelings about airports, which someone questioned....... Well, that is comparing apples to oranges. I want every passenger carefully scrutinized and willingly participate. We are not talking about intensive security that is targeted to save lives, in regard to the village use of scanning.

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

Beady, glad you have decided to follow the rules. welcome to TV. I am sure you will find more--much more good here then bad.

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

Beady has the right to question this practice without people calling her "silly". She should not be "ashamed" to question ANY practice. She should never get over the "Big Brother Foolishness." Her question does not mean she "was not following the rules."

If others wish to accept whatever is handed to them without question, 'SHAME ON THEM."

The Villages is still part of the United States. Being retired from your job does not mean you are retired from being a responsible citizen. We are not a bunch of sheep.

"Authoritarianism describes a form of social control characterized by strict obedience to the authority of a state or organization, often maintaining and enforcing control. In an authoritarian form of government, citizens are subject to state authority in many aspects of their lives, including many matters that other political philosophies would see as erosion of civil liberties and freedom." All in favor of this, raise your hand.

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

Talk Host...I think you are wrong...The sky is NOT falling.

Having cards scan seems like the only way to insure our facilities are preserved for residents.

Just because we are paranoid doesn't mean they are after us.

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

Hopefully most of you have worked most of your life. Almost all businesses of any size require you to have an employee ID badge. Most with your picture on it. Many places require that the badge be swiped in order to enter the premises. Many require a badge, picture, swipe and a pin code to enter. This is not really any different.

Every month you pay a fee to have these facilities available for your use. If people who don't pay the monthly fee also utilize them, then at some point your monthly fee will go up in order to cover their cost of use. At some point your residence card will probably have a picture ID and a card swipe in order to use rec centers, pools, and wouldn't it be nice if also the town squares. Perhaps if that was so, New Years Eve would have worked out just fine.

Unfortunately every where you go their are people who try to beat the system and get something for nothing. Having ID cards, badges, etc. is one way to help solve that problem. The technology already works very well where you have thumb print scanners that read your print and sense the temperature (just to make sure someone didn't cut off your thumb) to enter buildings. And this technology cost is coming down fast and is pretty fool proof. Then you don't even need ID's or pictures.

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

You are all missing my point. I am not discussing wether scanning cards is right or wrong. I am defending Beady's right to question it without others lowering themselves to claiming she is "silly."

Reread my post. Never once did I mention "scanning resident's ID cards."

I for one, am pleased that they check cards to keep ne'er-do-wells out of the Villages facilities. But please do not jump on people for questioning the practice. Why is it necessary to try to make her feel that she is somehow less of a person for asking the question.

If people are willing to give up their right to question any practice here in the Villages then I am in the wrong place.

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

l2ridehd.. I worked at a large well known boot,shoe and clothing manufactuers corporate headquarters in NE. I entered that building every day with my ID badge. Our company security was very intense and necessary because we also housed a R&D facility for boot design. I never even gave the use of a badge a second thought. No one was going to share my corporate identity.
My objection here is who sees the information when I am scanned. Who has access to it and will it be shared. I do not think that is impossible. If the information can build a model for the demograpics of such a large successful community and it's operations, can we be sure the information would not be shared or sold to other individuals or companies. Demographics are an important tool in marketing.I think the sale of that information is entirely possible. Call me silly, paranoid or whatever you like. I do not like the policy and I will continue to disagree with it, as that is my right. I will also "follow the rules" as some suggest but not willingly,again because in this free country I can.

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

If I am not mistaken, even if you are on a "preview" package and want to just see what a facility looks like, you have an ID card that should be scanned.

I pay my TV dues and also subject myself to alot more scrutiny at a grocery or drug store when I give them my (_____) card to save a dollar or two...I am all for scanning at all TV facilities.

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

Thanks Talk Host: for listening to my objections and defending my right to do so whether you agree with me or not.
I sometimes hesitate to express my opinion on this forum. While it does get some people thinking and responding with thought provoking responses ,it also opens the door for harsh criticisms that are sometimes unproductive to a discussion. IMHO!!!!

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

beady raised a good question and has a right to be heard.....some will agree and others will disagree. Thats the whole point of having a discussion board like this. Its only when people start taking things very serious or moreso "personal" that things can get out of hand. This is a good Topic!!

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

With all due respect, Jan, I thought your post was intended to rail against the Villages authorities:

If others wish to accept whatever is handed to them without question, 'SHAME ON THEM."

The Villages is still part of the United States. Being retired from your job does not mean you are retired from being a responsible citizen. We are not a bunch of sheep.

I totally agree with you and Beady that everyone should feel free to express opinions and be willing to listen to opposing or alternative positions. Posts and their replies should certainly refrain from personal criticism or attacks. There are factual and diplomatic ways to disagree with a position without insulting or demeaning the author.

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

Say, why don't we do away with those pesky little cards and just have RFID chips implanted in our hands. That way all we have to do is wave as we pass (how friendly) and we can be allowed to use the facilities.

Wait, better yet, let's have chips implanted in our heads, it would be much more convenient for the management to have have us do what they want and would solve (maybe) the counterfeiting "problem". Reminds me of a certain movie I saw a few years ago.

Seriously though, I agree with Jan (Talk Host) 100%. If the "sheeple" go to sleep, that's when the government takes over. I don't want my grandkids growing up that way (but it's probably too late already). Let's allow people to express concern without brushing away their views to lightly.

I understand all the "good" reasons for ID'ing the residents. However, as "beady" points out, your TV card ties to your resident info at "Headquarters", which ties to your SS #, which ties to your ????? and whatever. Choice Point, the nations largest database repository and the "Safest" had millions of records compromised by hackers recently. I too feel that TV needs ONLY to know that I am "Legit" and to make a count. How about a "count" card.

As is it stands now, they can do any number of studies with the resident data. Maybe we should exclude folks over 75 from the pools because they have more "slip and fall" accidents? Oh, that would never happen would it? But it would be so much "safer" for them and our insurance costs would go down. On second thought, maybe it would be a good idea!!

Has anyone bothered to read the full "The Patriot Act" to see what hard fought liberties "we" ( our legislators) have given up in the name of safety? It's worth a read sometime, you'll be shocked and amazed!

Folks, just 'cause we're living in our little corner of paradise, let's not go to sleep completely!!

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

beady and others, do you have a proposal for keeping our rec facilities for current amenities paying residents only that could eliminate card scanning?
the bar codes on our id cards only came into place a few years ago perhaps you could spearhead a change to a better system.

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

English...inform me what does the card contain and what are you are objecting to? The fact that one is a resident would NOT be sufficient....for example you could be a resident but NOT current on dues.

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

They must have tightened up on id scanning and the like. We have toured the rec facility with the Humprey Bogart figure several times with relatives since it opened and they I believe just noted how many people came with us. I do not remember the people at the front desk asking more than one person to see an Villages ID. They did not scan it as far as I remember either.

Do get my ID scanned just before entering Villages Computer Club meetings most of the time but it varies a lot when I have used pools. They do ask at billiards without exception but that seems to be the only occasion I can remember that the "policy" is closely followed.

I do think you have a good point about marketing research though even though that seems to pale in comparison to what they probably collect every time one of us uses a credit card to buy groceries at Publix, Albertson's or the Super Wal-Mart.

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

beady.. You are right if your concern is what may be done with the infomation. perhaps that is something to find out from the powers that be. I certainly don't want any information sold or used for any other purpose then to know I have a right to be there. If the Villages facilities owners do that then they are subject to law suits and other damages. Sorry I misread your post. I still prefer they check for valid residents only using the place, but I also expect my privacy to be protected. If they don't I will be the first to help sponsor a class action suit. However so far I have no reason to believe that they do anything sinister with the information.

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

card scanning can't always take place as rec centers have limited "front desk" staff and that person must monitor usage of the pool and outdoor courts as well as the rec center's front desk.
i confess i don't recall exactly what info one must submit to obtain a village id card. are we sure our social security numbers were required? do do our property title and tax records contain that info?

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

OK the main data base may contain some private information (not certain what), but you and I already provided whatever information they asked for when we became residents of TV. I never received any type of disclosure statement when I provided this information and If someone wanted to, im sure that information could already be sold. However that said, I cant even imagine what scanning at a rec center or ______ club could be of any value to someone other than providing information to TV that the participant is a valid dues paying resident and to collect some numbers for determining what is used to most/least. Please enlighten me otherwise!! The scan itself does not retrieve information from the main data base (other than verifying a vaild paying RESIDENT), but I see where it could add to it.

You can carry this to a real scare tactic that TV is collecting information everytime we scan our proximity card to enter a village gate. Lets talk about TOTV , we know there are tracking programs ( ie pages looked at per month etc) but how about programs that follow every key stroke you or I make, what boards/advertisers you visit, negative comments made against the establishment. Now are you less likely to use TOTV...I doubt it.

When you visit a new Doctor for the first time, the office requires you to fill out a questionaire proving all sorts of personal, financial and medical/drug information..do you question the purpose/value of giving up this information especially if you donot comply, the reply would be Sorry we cannot treat you without it. I wont even go into the new Governemnt "REAL ID" program that was announced this week.

Any information you provide anyone is only as safe as the weakest link in the system!Again the topic is important, and one should secure their personal identity information as much as possible. However I think you are making ......as they say "a mountain out of a mole hill" regarding the scanning of TV ID cards. The best we could ask for is a discloure statement but Im not certain one is required. Such a statement would state how the information scanned is /would/could be used and would any of it be used for a 3rd party financial gain....until the weakest link breaks!!!

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

Scanning is a tool for TV to help administer the rules we all want in place to keep our paradise for us. If one isn't doing anything they aren't supposed to and also doing what is required (i.e. pay fees etc) then there is nothing to worry about. The system TV has in place works and sometimes that in itself bothers some.

If one wants to debate the philosophy of potential invasion of privacy that is OK too....

How about credit cards (go/no go)...
How about Turnpike passes (go/no go)....
Again if all is OK there is no problem. It is for the good of the majority and unpleasant for the minority (that is was designed to weed out)....

Designed for the benefit of those of us that do what is required....and signed up for....

When they were just looking at cards, those who would be not allowed tries flashing look alike cards to get in....and during busy times...it worked.

One last comment....it is not reasonable to expect people who man gates, or centers or doorways, etc to have to decide who should or should not be exempt from a given process. That only leads to when in doubt let 'em in.....the most efficient method is no exceptions...no judgements required....errors are minimalized...your safety and privacy are maximized.

If there is a big brother out there and his system that "watches" me gets the bad folks...good for the system!!

BTK

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

We need an "I disagree" goodie. Personally, I hate anything that smacks of Big Brother. I tolerate it because I have no choice but, whenever possible, I'll go the route that denies any entity to get excess or unnecessary information.

Yes, the government does need to know how much we have earned from sources besides ourselves since some people are a bit (?) more dishonest than others for tax purposes. No, the government does not need to know what I am doing with my funds so long as I give it its fair share.

The highway commission really doesn't need to know what turnpikes I am taking. They only need to know that I am paying my share. They can count the cars without going into specifics.

Airports do need to be sure you're not carrying illegal items and I do agree they need to be extra careful for those on their terrorist lists. They don't need my life history or my address. I have as much right to fly if I'm homeless or live in the White House.

TV does have a right to know that its facilities are being used by those who are authorized to use the same. If scanning prevents someone from using a counterfeit card, I'd probably be a little more happy in having my card scanned. However, I'm not convinced it would make a bit of difference. What is an employee to do if the scanner beeps obnoxiously? Say, oh, gee, you can't enter? Or is the employee more than likely to say there's something wrong the scanner, enjoy yourself?

So, as I've said, I will tolerate the invasion of my privacy because I truly have no choice, but that doesn't mean I have to like it and I will certainly do what I can to avoid those invasions whenever possible.

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

Jan - I'm ok with scanning but i think your bias against the 'developer' (albeit for good reasons) comes through loud and clear sometimes. But of course you do have the right to express any opinion that you feel is valid. Those of us that the read the posts and gather all the information can make up our own minds. I don't think anyone is saying that opinions can't be expressed or intends to shout down any poster.

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

Yes, redwitch, My point exactly.

Another Anecdote From Last Week's RAC Meeting
 

During the RAC Meeting there was discussion between the developer, the head of VCCDD and the head of the Recreation Department regarding non-residents using our pools. The head of the Rec Department explained that in the interest of cost control, many pools were only spot-checked by personnel using the new electronic scanners to verify proper ID's when they visited. He went on to explain that the "illegals" seem to know when the rec representative was approaching the pool and jump into the water. They know that the policy of the Recreation Department is not to require swimmers to exit the pools in order to have their identity cards scanned. The illegals are "safe" so long as they stay in the water while the rep is there.

One of the more aggressive RAC members suggested that maybe all swimmers should be required to exit the water in order to have ID's checked. He went on to suggest that if swimmers didn't have an ID or had a forged ID, that they be ejected from the pool.

The Recreation head very politely opined that employees of the department tried very hard to act consistent with our "Florida's Friendliest Hometown" logo. He went on to explain that if the Rec Department personnel required swimmers to exit the pool and then attempted to eject those not properly credentialed, that Neighborhood or Village Watch or even the county sheriff might be required to enforce that type of action. He explained that from his prior experience with such policies that situations almost always become very confrontational and sometimes even violent. The RAC member quickly backed off his suggestion.

What I'm suggesting is that scanning the new bar-coded Resident ID's is an easy and effective way to assure the security of our rec facilities to only the residents that pay for them. The regular use of the ID's sets a tone for those who might consider unauthorized use of facilities. Maybe it even discourages unauthorized use when no scan is conducted upon entry to a pool, rec center, pickleball court, etc. I know they've even begun to check ID's for people attending club meetings. The popularity of the more than 1,000 clubs available to residents is straining the capacity of the rec centers. So the rec department is beginning to enforce the rule that club participants be residents of The Villages.

Personally, I think we're all required to provide electronic information that is far more intrusive into our personal affairs than the simple scanning of a Resident ID by a Recreation Department representative. We're arguing about it here because we can argue about it. When our personal information is captured when we use a credit card, an ATM card, use an EasyPass on the tollway or any other electronically-viewable form of ID, we quietly succomb to the personal intrusion because we have no choice. I humbly submit that a request to scan a Villages ID is potentially far less intrusive than other forms of electronic ID and it goes a long way towards maintaining the lifestyle we all moved here to enjoy.

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

:agree: :agree: :agree:

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

Quote from Kahuna, "I humbly submit that a request to scan a Villages ID is potentially far less intrusive than other forms of electronic ID and it goes a long way towards maintaining the lifestyle we all moved here for." Well said Kahuna and I agree 100%.

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

Kahuna, You are exactly right,
The card contains no information ,(none) (zippo) it only reads your number to a computer (not the MAIN computer) and the card computer has all the numbers listed , If your number is scanned and its in the good column, the scanner beeps.......If its bad it doesn't beep, Its a yes and no situation and thats all , If you try to get into a dance class and your an Arthur Murray Loser, You won't get in ....Its just that simple ,
I do NOT agree with talk host on this one.....If your going to play this game, You've got to know the rules.....
Fumar

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

Your not exactly right, but close. At the gates the card is just read, Its go or no go. I don't think any information is pulled at all, Other cards made by HID that return the same frequency will work to open the gates. (don't ask) I don't know about the facilities, but I know it works at the gates.

gary

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

Do you have any proof of TV management selling or giving away any personal information for which they do not have authorization?

Re: Scanning Your TV ID card.
 

Check out www.earthcam.com
We are being watched in so many places by so many people it's beyond Big Brother.
TV ID should be the least of our worries.
Especially those of us on a computer - 'cookies'
Just ;D and bear it and carefull where you scratch :redface: