Corrugated Stainless Steel tubing in Attics and fire safety
 

Sumter county Building Official and Villages Fire Marshall have been asked to inspect and certify in writing safety of homes in Villages with Natural Gas. I was concerned about Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing which is used for Gas lines in the attics of all Village homes. I called Chuck Humphry Safety person for TECO Gas his number is 352-427-0743. I asked him about Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing in attics. He immediately referred me to a 16 page booklet called [ At your Service Handbook] that TECO GAS sends out to people with TECO GAS service which explains in particular gas safety issues. He referred me to page 8 of this hand book which states ( If you find Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing in your home or business, customers should have a licensed electrician install a bonding device to reduce the chance of natural gas leak or FIRE.) He was also quite clear that the routing of Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing in CLOSE PROXMITY to the Metal Gas Furnace Exhaust pipe which generally sticks between 5 or 6 ft above the roof and act as a natural lighting rod is very dangerous. Or for that mater near to any Metallic pipe or wire is also a very dangerous practice and could cause fire and explosion. The combination of not bonding and grounding the gas supply on the house side of the meter as close as possible to the gas meter with a number 6 copper wire which is grounded to the electrical panel ground and the main house ground in conjunction with routing the Corrugated Stainless Steel tubing to close to the Gas Furnace Exhaust pipe can cause arcing from the electrical system to the Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing. In the case of lighting strikes if these 2 things which are required by law according to Chuck Humphrey there is extreme danger of fire and explosion. I would like to know what other people in the Villages experience has been with this problem I have talked to people in the Villages and looked at many many homes in the Villages and have not seen one home that has the Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing safely installed. I would like to hear from people if they have seen a safe installation anywhere in the Villages. I was told by someone to Google Stainless Steel Tubing and I was shocked what was said about Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing. Do not take my word about this Contact TECO GAS the will tell you if the Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing is not bonded and grounded according to law that is a extreme fire and explosion Hazard. Any home that does not have this installed properly should immediately have it done. Chuck Humphery from TECO GAS said it should have been done by law in the when the home was built and is very dangerous.

Any number of home inspectors can tell you if your pipe is to code. Here is a copy of the code.

http://www.ecodes.biz/ecodes_support...l%20Piping.pdf

And here is a link to the booklet that Teco told you about.
http://www.peoplesgas.com/files/cont...ochure_eng.pdf

Welcome to TOTV, anne321 - interesting first post. Just wondering why you are concerned about gas installations in attics...do you live here, are you looking to buy or move to a house here that has a gas utility, do you know someone who installs the protective bonding device, or do you need a referaal to someone who does the bonding protection. TOTVers ave lots of experience at lots of things - if there is an answer to you inquiry, someone will offer it here.

Thanks for the link to the handbook. I will read it sometime this week.

Z

All homes do not have gas. Many are all electric.

If iI were in a home with the attic gas lines there is no doubt what I would do. I would have the gas shut off at the meter and convert all my appliances to electric. If you wonder why I say this, you must have not read the news reports of these lines being hit by lighting and ruptering causing a unreal increase in the fire.

If I were in a home with the attic gas lines there is no doubt what I would do. I would have the gas shut off at the meter and convert all my appliances to electric. If you wonder why I say this, you must have not read the news reports of these lines being hit by lighting and ruptering causing a unreal increase in the fire.

Thank you Very much for posting this information. This has been on my endless list of things to look into for months now.

Now, does anyone have an electrician who can handle this?

Because I live in a house that could burn to the ground
 

I recently learned that very important fire safety measures in a home that I live in were not done when they were built. These measures are required by law and well known to the people who built the villages. It is my understanding that the Villages has even offered vouchers to people in the have these major code violations fixed. Building and allowing people to live in homes that burn down to the slab when they shouldnt is not a very freindly thing to do.

Very interesting, ann321. Who did your home inspection? Have you tried to obtain one of those vouchers? Did you get one? Who does a concerned resident contact?

I still don't get what the problem is. When we bought our first house here in 2006 they had stopped using natural gas in homes. They had gone to all electric. Some people opted to have propane.

I think you have rewritten your post, just as I am rewriting this post.

Here are a couple of threads on building issues;

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...52/index4.html

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...estions-46586/

I would ask the county building inspection dept, why a CO was issued for your house, with this code violation.

There are those that have propane, too, Warren. Heck I worry about lightning striking our little propane tank attached to the grill.

My home is almost 11 years old in Calumet Grove. We have CSST in our attic. I had Mike Scott Plumbing (licensed for gas installation and repair) come to my home this week to discuss this issue. Their gas man (25 years of gas experience) stated that a direct hit from lightning will breach almost anything, including CSST or hard pipe. He checked the CSST in my attic and it was bonded and grounded as required. We have a gas water heater, Furnace A/c, and Dryer. Options are: (1) Leave as is. (2) Replace the Attic CSST with hard pipe coming in my garage either along the floor or ceiling wall at a rough cost of $650. (3) replace all gas appliances with electric - New Furnace / Water Heater / Dryer + cost of electrical $$$$?. (4) Add lightning rod protection. Last week A-1 Lightning protection stated they could install a complete system(around $1800ish), with grounding the CSST and the manifold where the lines split in the attic to the appliances. If your specific lot has more sand soil than clay they will double the amount of grounding rods supposedly to compensate. Electric or gas won't matter much if you get a direct hit. I have not decided what to do or not do. Any one else in this position that has?

According to page 8 of the booklet Gracie provided the link for, what OP was told by Mr. Humphry at TECO is, in fact, true. At least, if you believe both the booklet and Mr. Humphry. I don't get why you're drilling her. This isn't the first time it's been brought up, either.

I'm glad we have all electric, although I really miss cooking with gas. If we had gas, I would be having someone from TECO come out to give me an opinion, and go from there.

CFrance - Sorry you perceive me to be drilling anne321. I will advise you of my personal need by PM rather than hang my laundry here for all to be exposed to. I'll just crawl back under my rock and only come back to play Pollyanna.

Villages Homes and Fire and Life Safety Code Complaince
 

I have read some of the posts about Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing and Fire Safety. Some people of the have asked what the interest in this subject is. I live in one of these homes and when i moved to the Villages the last thing i thougt I would have to worry about was my home burning to the slab. If you Google Stainless Steel tubing you will find out the Corrugatted Stainless Steel Tubing in Attics in the Villages is not installed as required by the National Fire Protection Association Fire Codes [NFPA]. Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing in Attics in the Villages is not installed the way that the Corrugated Steel Tubing Manufacture require it to be so that it will be safe and there will be no fire or explosion in homes. Corruggated stainless Steel Tubing in the Villagges Attics is not in any way shape or form installed the way TECO Gas recommends and requires in order to keep homes from burning down. it is abosuletly Critical that Corruggated Stainless Steel Tubing be Bonded and grounded at the house side of the Gas Meter as close as possible to the Gas Meter to the Electrical Panel Ground and main House Ground. If this is not done it can cause FIRES AND EXPLOSIONS IN PARTICULARLY WHEN LIGHTING IS INVOLVED. You do not have to take my word about this all you have to do is check it out. The real question in this matter is why this was not done when the homes were built as everyone was well aware of this. EVERY HOME IN THE VILLAGES SHOULD BE CHECKED AND IF NOT IN COMPLAINCE WITH ALL FIRE AND LIFE SAFETY CODES SHOULD BE IMMEDIATELY FIXED. I HAVE LOOKED IN THE VILLAGES AND HAVE NOT SEEN ONE HOME THAT HAS A SAFE INSTALLATION. iT IS ONLY AMATTER OF TIME BEFORE SOMEONE DIES BECAUSE OF THIS. WHERE IS THE DEVELOPER IN THIS AND MORE IMPORTANT WHERE WAS THE DEVELOPER WHEN THIS WAS DONE.

Is it to local building code? You are mentioning some criteria that may be superior to our building code here. Codes differ and expectations differ. On the thread below some have paid to have this further protected. I would NOT want gas or propane nearby with the lightning being so frequent here.

Here is yet another thread; https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...s-attic-24497/

Before you making sweeping statements about "every home in The Villages", you might want to do a little fact checking. Many of us live in areas which do not have natural gas.

Our home among the others on our street have no gas appliances.

I think it's pretty obvious OP meant those with gas homes should have their tubing checked.

Gracie, is there any way to find out if, indeed, they offered coupons for a fix for this in the past?

It does not mater what code involved
 

It does not matter what code is involved the siaution as it exists is very unsafe and extremely dangerous. the only reason there has not been serious injury and even death is that these home have no one living in the for a large part of the year. Not Grounding and bonding Corrugated Stainlees Steel Tubing and in particular running the Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing near a Gas Furance exhaust that sticks 6 ft into the air above the roof and acts like a natural lighting is so unbelivablely dangerous that you can not imagine how bad this is. You can delude your self into thinking that this is safe you can stick your head into the sand like a ostrich and ignore this but it is estasblished fact about these matters and the sooner Villagers take this seriously the better chance they have to keep there homes intact.

Legally it would matter if a home was built to code. If you feel that it is dangerous, you can have it removed I guess.

Vouchers to fix these firecode violations were discussed at last POA meeting
 

It is my understanding that this very subject was discussed at the last Property Owners Association meeting. The Villages knows about this problem and always has. Some people who realizied what was going on got vouchers to have the firecode violations fixed but others wer told that there were no more Vouchers and that they should live with it.

Safety Trumps everthing
 

It does not matter what code is involved where if something is serious enough to cause death and serious injury it can not be done.

What was the code requirement when the homes were built? It was at least 3 but might be 4 years since they stopped putting gas lines in the street. Building codes are in a constant state of change.

Here it is. It was a national problem.

CSST Settlement - Home Page

Ah, but it does matter what the code was when the house was built. If it was built to existing code, it's not the builder's or developer's problem to fix. It's the owner's problem.

Vouchers to repair Fire and Life Safety Codes Violation discussed at last POA meeting
 

I was not at the last POA meeting but I was told that the subject of Vouchers came up at that meeting and that at one time the Villages had recognized that this Fire and Life Safety Code Violations existed and they gave people vouchers to correct these violations. They only gave Vouchers to some people and then told the rest of the people that they had run out and to live with it. This information came from some who i would consider to be very relaible source but it would be very easy to check.

Anne is very worried about this. She has started two threads in the last few days.

Here is the issue that was national.

CSST Settlement - Home Page

If the homes were built to code, perhaps the code has been changed.

anne: This topic is of great concern so please cite your authority. do you have documentation that those homes built in TV with gas appliances are not built to code . (NPFA) has very complicated rules and there are times when an alternative is permissible. How do you know TV knows about this problem? Also do you know for certain that TV issued vouchers, and if so, why TV stopped? Do you know if the POA is pursuing this safety issue and in what manner? I intend to make inquiries on my own. I am thankful that you cared enough to post but your posts left me thinking "but we don't know that?" Please in the future include more information as suggested above. If you cannot produce such documentation then simply state that ----is looking into safety concerns related to---- and leave it at that

Perhaps it was the company that made CSST pipe that gave the vouchers?

CSST Settlement - Home Page

Grounding and bonding the Corrugated was always required by code
 

Teco gas has said that it was always a code requirement and it always has been. It does not matter about any of this discussion if these practices are known to be Unsafe and can cause fires and explosions and kill and injure people YOU JUST DO DO THINGS THAT WAY IF IT IS UNSAFE AND VERY DANGEROUS I NOT SURE WHAT PART OF THAT YOU DO NOT GET.

It does not matter if is unsafe it is unsafe.
 

It does not matter if it is unsafe it is unsafe. Call TECO GAS get there 16 page Booklet on GAS on page 8 it in the middle of the page IT STATES that ( IF YOU FIND CORRUGATED STAINLESS STEEL TUBING IN YOUR HOME YOU SHOULD IMEDIATELY CONTACT A LICENSED ELECTRICAN TO INSPECT AND INSURE THAT THE CORRUGATED STAINLESS STEEL TUBING IS PROPERLY GROUNDED AND BONDED TO PREVENT LEAKS AND FIRES.) YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE MY WORD FOR THIS CALL TECO. GOOGLE STAINLESS STEEL TUBING AND READ WHAT IT SAYS.

The county building inspector should not have approved Teco to put gas in the system, if it was not complying with the code requirements.
If they did, the county and the installer and Teco should be liable.
Regardless, If your installation is not up to current codes, have the work done :shrug:

Csst
 

When I return to The Villages in the fall the first thing I will do is contact an electrician and have my home inspected and corrected.It is my understanding when my house was built (2000) that the code did not require bonding and grounding of CSST gas lines,I could be wrong.

Okay, you've gotten the word out, ann. No need for the all-caps shouting. People will do what they see fit with the information. If they insist on arguing with you, just ignore it. The thread will die off.

CSST is legal in all 50 states. It was the subject of a 2007 class action lawsuit. There was a six month window to apply for a voucher that would offset the cost of a lightning protection system (lightning rods). The CSST manufacturers insist that their product is safety if it is properly bonded and grounded with a No. 6 bare copper conductor on the gas manifold in the attic that is connected to the main electric panel ground.

When you checked, what did you find out?