Talk of The Villages Florida
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Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   AED Devices in Neighborhood? (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/aed-devices-neighborhood-124026/)

carol_piirto 08-15-2014 02:59 PM
AED Devices in Neighborhood?
 
Does your neighborhood have an AED device? Has anyone ever had the opportunity to use it and save a life? What do you think about it? Is it something that we'll actually use, that we'll even be able to get to the emergency before the EMTs?! ( I question that)
Anyway, I wonder what your experience has taught you.
Many many thanks

Carol 352-633-0326 H
352-446-0149C

carol_piirto@hotmail.com

sunnyatlast 08-15-2014 03:07 PM
Our neighborhood organized and runs its voluntary program with neighbors trained by fire department. It coordinates with 911 dispatchers and an outside contractor handles dispatch of neighbor-responders. There are costs involved in the dispatch service and there are costs of maintaining the AED machines, batteries, etc.

It's well worth it to raise money voluntarily as a group to do this. Fire dept. paramedics can easily be out on other calls when your neighbor has a cardiac arrest, and a neighbor responder can be at his/her house in 2 minutes, and it might take much longer for ambulance to arrive.

Best testimonial of AED training and equipment on hand is this, reported in the newer online Villages dot com newspaper, titled "Villages Public Safety Captain works ‘Sunday miracle’ at church".

bwahrend 08-15-2014 03:31 PM
I have used them before. They are easy to use and they save lives. They have voice commands that are easy to follow and the machines are basically automatic. Time is of the essence.

Bizdoc 08-15-2014 03:57 PM
Given the demographics of TV, it is cheap insurance. As to how fast will people respond, the more people who are trained and willing to save a life, the closer they are likely to be to you. Hopefully, you will take the training and be willing to save a life. From my understanding, the average time for EMTs to arrive is around 5 minutes. If you have someone in your block, it will be under 3 minutes. Those 2 minutes make a huge difference.

There's a reason why the survival rate for cardiac events is considerably higher in TV than the national average.

Bogie Shooter 08-15-2014 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carol_piirto (Post 923717)
Does your neighborhood have an AED device? Has anyone ever had the opportunity to use it and save a life? What do you think about it? Is it something that we'll actually use, that we'll even be able to get to the emergency before the EMTs?! ( I question that)
Anyway, I wonder what your experience has taught you.
Many many thanks

Carol 352-633-0326 H
352-446-0149C

carol_piirto@hotmail.com
List of locations. You can also call the Public Safety Department for more information on the program.

Village Community Development Districts

njbchbum 08-15-2014 04:31 PM
Is it correct to assume that once pools and rec centers close that there is no access to an AED - or are they available on the outside of a facility?

Do they not have them on some golf courses, too?

asianthree 08-15-2014 05:14 PM
For those who have actually performed CPR. On a person, it is very strenuous. But at least the guide lines do not call for mouth to mouth any more just compressions

Mikeod 08-15-2014 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by njbchbum (Post 923766)
Is it correct to assume that once pools and rec centers close that there is no access to an AED - or are they available on the outside of a facility?

Do they not have them on some golf courses, too?
No AEDs at the golf courses. Players are advised to call 911 and give their precise location on the course.

billethkid 08-15-2014 06:31 PM
It is no different than any other insurance. It is a wise investment that every village should make.
We have had ours in our village since before it was built out.
And yes it has been used. And yes in each instance it made the difference in the patients outcome.
And yes we do respond for the very very few in our village who refused to participate (donate their share....$275!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

upstate 08-15-2014 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by asianthree (Post 923775)
For those who have actually performed CPR. On a person, it is very strenuous. But at least the guide lines do not call for mouth to mouth any more just compressions
I have performed CPR many times in over forty years and yes it can be strenuous with or without a relief. Personally, to me it's a small price to pay for the possibility of assisting in saving a life.

getdul981 08-15-2014 10:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by njbchbum (Post 923766)
Is it correct to assume that once pools and rec centers close that there is no access to an AED - or are they available on the outside of a facility?

Do they not have them on some golf courses, too?
Our neighborhood has 4 AED's located strategically around the neighborhood. We have around 25-30 people that have taken the CPR instruction course and agreed to be responders. The reason for so many is, hopefully, some of the 25-30 will be available at any given time. You can never have too many people to assist with CPR.

newguyintv 08-16-2014 06:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 923759)
List of locations. You can also call the Public Safety Department for more information on the program.

Village Community Development Districts
This is a list of Rec Centers etc. where these devices are located. It has nothing at all to do with the subject of this Thread.

Bogie Shooter 08-16-2014 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguyintv (Post 923960)
This is a list of Rec Centers etc. where these devices are located. It has nothing at all to do with the subject of this Thread.
I was pointing out that the AED program is very active in TV. Not only in various villages but the public places as well. I also included a link where more information could be obtained.

Was your post really necessary?

newguyintv 08-16-2014 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 924003)
I was pointing out that the AED program is very active in TV. Not only in various villages but the public places as well. I also included a link where more information could be obtained.

Was your post really necessary?
Yes it was! We all know that there are AED's and trained Employees in all the places listed in your attachment. Yes, there have been a few success stories associated with those locations.

The point you are missing is that there is no commonality between the location of AED's and trained personal in public places and the neighborhood AED program. All I can tell you is that hundreds of thousands have been spent on the neighborhood programs and I have yet to see a single bit of corroborated evidence that any of these neighborhood devices or volunteers have been used successfully or otherwise. Granted, in general, training of many residents in CPR is very valuable and commendable and valuable.

If you can refute what I say by providing evidence of actual life saving situations directly as a result of the neighborhood programs I might reconsider my opinion. If there are any such cases that are documented they should include details about how much faster neighborhood volunteers responded than the traditional rescue teams.

Without supporting detail, I have little choice but to maintain that the neighborhood program is excessively expensive and motivated by emotion rather than facts. Lets see some facts from the neighborhood program alone, not from the few success stories that originated in public places where the use of AED's and trained personnel has been proven to make sense.

billethkid 08-16-2014 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguyintv (Post 924029)

Without supporting detail, I have little choice but to maintain that the neighborhood program is excessively expensive and motivated by emotion rather than facts. Lets see some facts from the neighborhood program alone, not from the few success stories that originated in public places where the use of AED's and trained personnel has been proven to make sense.
Having been a party to some of the original studies to determine if we as a village should go forward I can tell you that your statement is unequivocally WRONG. And I suspect I am reporting like wise for many other villages that decided to go forward.

You are entitled to YOUR opinion but please do not insult those of us who in fact know better.

asianthree 08-16-2014 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstate (Post 923896)
I have performed CPR many times in over forty years and yes it can be strenuous with or without a relief. Personally, to me it's a small price to pay for the possibility of assisting in saving a life.
As most who are in the health care field many of us have slapped on the pads more than you want to count. Sometimes without good results. Sometimes good. Since I have had to do CPR many times and applied shock, I can also say I have also been given CPR and had those pads used on me.

Bogie Shooter 08-16-2014 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguyintv (Post 924029)
Yes it was! We all know that there are AED's and trained Employees in all the places listed in your attachment. Yes, there have been a few success stories associated with those locations.

The point you are missing is that there is no commonality between the location of AED's and trained personal in public places and the neighborhood AED program. All I can tell you is that hundreds of thousands have been spent on the neighborhood programs and I have yet to see a single bit of corroborated evidence that any of these neighborhood devices or volunteers have been used successfully or otherwise. Granted, in general, training of many residents in CPR is very valuable and commendable and valuable.

If you can refute what I say by providing evidence of actual life saving situations directly as a result of the neighborhood programs I might reconsider my opinion. If there are any such cases that are documented they should include details about how much faster neighborhood volunteers responded than the traditional rescue teams.

Without supporting detail, I have little choice but to maintain that the neighborhood program is excessively expensive and motivated by emotion rather than facts. Lets see some facts from the neighborhood program alone, not from the few success stories that originated in public places where the use of AED's and trained personnel has been proven to make sense.
I made no claim as the the effectiveness of the AED program. Nor that I was an expert in its development or its record in saving lives.
You are critizing the wrong person.
Or just state your opinion without copying a post.

newguyintv 08-16-2014 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 924100)
Having been a party to some of the original studies to determine if we as a village should go forward I can tell you that your statement is unequivocally WRONG. And I suspect I am reporting like wise for many other villages that decided to go forward.

You are entitled to YOUR opinion but please do not insult those of us who in fact know better.
I did not, nor did I have any intention of insulting anyone. I am simply asking if you have FACTS to support the value of the neighborhood program. My guess is that you do not and accordingly my contention that emotion is the deciding factor is correct.

Mikeod 08-16-2014 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguyintv (Post 924029)

Without supporting detail, I have little choice but to maintain that the neighborhood program is excessively expensive and motivated by emotion rather than facts. Lets see some facts from the neighborhood program alone, not from the few success stories that originated in public places where the use of AED's and trained personnel has been proven to make sense.
Excessively expensive? No. We have 64 houses in our neighborhood. The cost to buy two units with mounting hardware was less than $50 per household and part of that was because not everyone participated. Annually, we pay $15 to cover the alert service and provide a fund for replacement batteries.

Yes, the program is certainly based partly on emotion. None of the trained volunteers would be comfortable standing around unable to help one of our friends suffering a sudden cardiac event when the technology to make a great difference in their chances of survival is readily available.

I would suggest that you follow your thinking and refuse to participate in a neighborhood program. I'm sure your neighbors will respond if you need them whether you paid the "excessive" amount or not.

dbussone 08-16-2014 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguyintv (Post 924029)
Yes it was! We all know that there are AED's and trained Employees in all the places listed in your attachment. Yes, there have been a few success stories associated with those locations.



The point you are missing is that there is no commonality between the location of AED's and trained personal in public places and the neighborhood AED program. All I can tell you is that hundreds of thousands have been spent on the neighborhood programs and I have yet to see a single bit of corroborated evidence that any of these neighborhood devices or volunteers have been used successfully or otherwise. Granted, in general, training of many residents in CPR is very valuable and commendable and valuable.



If you can refute what I say by providing evidence of actual life saving situations directly as a result of the neighborhood programs I might reconsider my opinion. If there are any such cases that are documented they should include details about how much faster neighborhood volunteers responded than the traditional rescue teams.



Without supporting detail, I have little choice but to maintain that the neighborhood program is excessively expensive and motivated by emotion rather than facts. Lets see some facts from the neighborhood program alone, not from the few success stories that originated in public places where the use of AED's and trained personnel has been proven to make sense.

Wow! The fact of a higher survival rate has already been noted.

Bogie Shooter 08-16-2014 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeod (Post 924172)
Excessively expensive? No. We have 64 houses in our neighborhood. The cost to buy two units with mounting hardware was less than $50 per household and part of that was because not everyone participated. Annually, we pay $15 to cover the alert service and provide a fund for replacement batteries.

Yes, the program is certainly based partly on emotion. None of the trained volunteers would be comfortable standing around unable to help one of our friends suffering a sudden cardiac event when the technology to make a great difference in their chances of survival is readily available.

I would suggest that you follow your thinking and refuse to participate in a neighborhood program. I'm sure your neighbors will respond if you need them whether you paid the "excessive" amount or not.
Well stated.

CFrance 08-16-2014 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguyintv (Post 924169)
I did not, nor did I have any intention of insulting anyone. I am simply asking if you have FACTS to support the value of the neighborhood program. My guess is that you do not and accordingly my contention that emotion is the deciding factor is correct.
Actually, you're the one that went off topic. The OP was not asking for facts. The OP was asking for anecdotal experiences. Then njbchbm posed the question about AEDs at the rec centers, to which Bogie supplied a link.

This is the way TOTV works. And it does work.

billethkid 08-16-2014 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguyintv (Post 924169)
I did not, nor did I have any intention of insulting anyone. I am simply asking if you have FACTS to support the value of the neighborhood program. My guess is that you do not and accordingly my contention that emotion is the deciding factor is correct.
You may have your contention or opinion all day long......as one is entitled to such. It does not entitle one to make a personal arbitrary condition of validity.

The tenor of the posts have an all too familiar ring.

Be happy I your quest!

dbussone 08-16-2014 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 924202)
You may have your contention or opinion all day long......as one is entitled to such. It does not entitle one to make a personal arbitrary condition of validity.



The tenor of the posts have an all too familiar ring.



Be happy I your quest!

I'm just happy my village is covered and we have enough friends who care to participate in the program. It works in hospitals and I have no doubt it works in neighborhoods.

billethkid 08-16-2014 07:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbussone (Post 924204)
I'm just happy my village is covered and we have enough friends who care to participate in the program. It works in hospitals and I have no doubt it works in neighborhoods.
Oh I wish I could have been alert enough to think of that response:

It works in hospitals

dbussone 08-16-2014 07:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 924264)
Oh I wish I could have been alert enough to think of that response:



It works in hospitals

In our neighborhood the drills have similar response times to codes called hospitals. No need to be facetious.

dbussone 08-16-2014 07:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbussone (Post 924278)
In our neighborhood the drills have similar response times to codes called hospitals. No need to be facetious.

And I should also note the training is the same minus the use of drugs - until EMS arrives.

graciegirl 08-16-2014 08:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguyintv (Post 924029)
Yes it was! We all know that there are AED's and trained Employees in all the places listed in your attachment. Yes, there have been a few success stories associated with those locations.

The point you are missing is that there is no commonality between the location of AED's and trained personal in public places and the neighborhood AED program. All I can tell you is that hundreds of thousands have been spent on the neighborhood programs and I have yet to see a single bit of corroborated evidence that any of these neighborhood devices or volunteers have been used successfully or otherwise. Granted, in general, training of many residents in CPR is very valuable and commendable and valuable.

If you can refute what I say by providing evidence of actual life saving situations directly as a result of the neighborhood programs I might reconsider my opinion. If there are any such cases that are documented they should include details about how much faster neighborhood volunteers responded than the traditional rescue teams.

Without supporting detail, I have little choice but to maintain that the neighborhood program is excessively expensive and motivated by emotion rather than facts. Lets see some facts from the neighborhood program alone, not from the few success stories that originated in public places where the use of AED's and trained personnel has been proven to make sense.

You may be right, but you assuredly won't be the most sought after at the Holiday party if you don't kick in. Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy? Those folks are who you are gonna be runnin' into at the mailbox and when you are walkin' your dog.

Plus...it is nice to know they are there. Cost is two or three couple meals out. Ya never know. You just never know. Talk about how embarrassing it would be if it saved your life and you didn't support it financially.


PLUS....don't you think the golf course conditions have improved in the last few weeks????

dbussone 08-16-2014 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 924264)
Oh I wish I could have been alert enough to think of that response:

It works in hospitals
I think I was too quick with a response that was neither appropriate nor thoughtful. I apologize.

zonerboy 08-16-2014 10:44 PM
No offense intended, but I'm not all that sure I want any of my neighbors zapping my chest. CPR is fine, but I'd just as soon wait for the paramedics to determine if I need shocking.
There are many reasons other than a "cardiac event" that could cause a person to pass out or collapse. And even if the cause is cardiac only a few such situations are responsive to defibrillation.
Just my personal opinion.
Maybe I need to get a tattoo on my chest stating my preferences.

Nightengale212 08-17-2014 03:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zonerboy (Post 924340)
No offense intended, but I'm not all that sure I want any of my neighbors zapping my chest. CPR is fine, but I'd just as soon wait for the paramedics to determine if I need shocking.
There are many reasons other than a "cardiac event" that could cause a person to pass out or collapse. And even if the cause is cardiac only a few such situations are responsive to defibrillation.
Just my personal opinion.
Maybe I need to get a tattoo on my chest stating my preferences.

I am a former ER nurse, CPR and paramedic instructor which has given me lots of experience on this topic and I am going to suggest to you before you get a NO AED tatt on your chest you may want watch a few videos on youtube to see how an AED actually works. In brief, it is the AED not the responder that determines if you are in ventricular fibrillation and the machine gives the responder voice commands to shock or not to shock. Ventricular fibrillation is the ONLY rhythm and reason which defibrillation is indicated be it determined by an AED machine or a paramedic.

Our hearts are muscles and the mechanism that causes them to pump is electrical. When someone is in ventricular fibrillation they still have electrical activity but it is chaotic and will not cause the heart to pump, but is still in a electrically receptive state for which receiving a shock can often convert the heart to an electrical rhythm that will restore pump action. The time someone is in venticular fibrillation is very brief so seconds count. If V-fib is not reversed then asystole (flat line) follows which is no electrical activity and is extremely difficult to reverse especially if a significant amount of heart muscle damage has taken place.

buggyone 08-17-2014 08:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zonerboy (Post 924340)
No offense intended, but I'm not all that sure I want any of my neighbors zapping my chest. CPR is fine, but I'd just as soon wait for the paramedics to determine if I need shocking.
There are many reasons other than a "cardiac event" that could cause a person to pass out or collapse. And even if the cause is cardiac only a few such situations are responsive to defibrillation.
Just my personal opinion.
Maybe I need to get a tattoo on my chest stating my preferences.
I suggest you take one of the free CPR AED classes. It gives all the information you need in order to properly use the A E D. You will find out that the device will not shock unless it deems it necessary. It will only shock if no heartbeat is present. You can be passed out and have a heartbeat and the device will not shock but will tell the responder to continue CPR. Excellent class and in an active senior community, it is good to have as many people as possible trained.

newguyintv 08-17-2014 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 924289)
You may be right, but you assuredly won't be the most sought after at the Holiday party if you don't kick in. Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy? Those folks are who you are gonna be runnin' into at the mailbox and when you are walkin' your dog.

Plus...it is nice to know they are there. Cost is two or three couple meals out. Ya never know. You just never know. Talk about how embarrassing it would be if it saved your life and you didn't support it financially.


PLUS....don't you think the golf course conditions have improved in the last few weeks????
Thanks for the lecture. Haven't had one of those since my Mom died almost 20 years ago. Too bad all of you have missed my point about the cost of the program. It's not the minimal amount each one of you puts up it's the cumulative cost of this program in the 100 or so Villages where it's been implemented. At about 5k per Village that's the $500,000 cost I'm talking about. Might actually be worth it if someone could just come up with several examples of when and where the neighborhood program was implemented and if it did or did not save any lives. Your post was also most informative as it implies that the names of non contributors in the neighborhoods might not be protected. If that premise is in fact incorrect I should have no problem at my next Holiday party.

Bogie Shooter 08-17-2014 03:03 PM
Do you have an alternative proposal??

dbussone 08-17-2014 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguyintv (Post 924538)
Thanks for the lecture. Haven't had one of those since my Mom died almost 20 years ago. Too bad all of you have missed my point about the cost of the program. It's not the minimal amount each one of you puts up it's the cumulative cost of this program in the 100 or so Villages where it's been implemented. At about 5k per Village that's the $500,000 cost I'm talking about. Might actually be worth it if someone could just come up with several examples of when and where the neighborhood program was implemented and if it did or did not save any lives. Your post was also most informative as it implies that the names of non contributors in the neighborhoods might not be protected. If that premise is in fact incorrect I should have no problem at my next Holiday party.

In our neighborhood contributors and non contributors are covered.

graciegirl 08-17-2014 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguyintv (Post 924538)
Thanks for the lecture. Haven't had one of those since my Mom died almost 20 years ago. Too bad all of you have missed my point about the cost of the program. It's not the minimal amount each one of you puts up it's the cumulative cost of this program in the 100 or so Villages where it's been implemented. At about 5k per Village that's the $500,000 cost I'm talking about. Might actually be worth it if someone could just come up with several examples of when and where the neighborhood program was implemented and if it did or did not save any lives. Your post was also most informative as it implies that the names of non contributors in the neighborhoods might not be protected. If that premise is in fact incorrect I should have no problem at my next Holiday party.
You're welcome.

And the golf course conditions? Do you think they are better?

dbussone 08-17-2014 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 924555)
You're welcome.

And the golf course conditions? Do you think they are better?

They are so much better. Thank you for asking Gracie!

DangeloInspections 08-17-2014 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale212 (Post 924361)
I am a former ER nurse, CPR and paramedic instructor which has given me lots of experience on this topic and I am going to suggest to you before you get a NO AED tatt on your chest you may want watch a few videos on youtube to see how an AED actually works. In brief, it is the AED not the responder that determines if you are in ventricular fibrillation and the machine gives the responder voice commands to shock or not to shock. Ventricular fibrillation is the ONLY rhythm and reason which defibrillation is indicated be it determined by an AED machine or a paramedic.

Our hearts are muscles and the mechanism that causes them to pump is electrical. When someone is in ventricular fibrillation they still have electrical activity but it is chaotic and will not cause the heart to pump, but is still in a electrically receptive state for which receiving a shock can often convert the heart to an electrical rhythm that will restore pump action. The time someone is in venticular fibrillation is very brief so seconds count. If V-fib is not reversed then asystole (flat line) follows which is no electrical activity and is extremely difficult to reverse especially if a significant amount of heart muscle damage has taken place.
Excellent post. You beat me to it. At the risk of muddying the waters I'll just add that unless they have changed things the last few years, V-fib and V-tach are the two rhythms that the AED reads and will shock. The main point you are making that folks need to realize is that the AED reads the heart rhythm and makes the call.....not the rescuer. Time is heart muscle folks, that is why the use of an AED trumps CPR and should be attached to any unresponsive person ASAP. For the record as a former career firefighter/medic/NYS EMS Instructor I have done CPR and used both automatic and manual AEDS many times with sometimes excellent outcomes. And since I'm in The Villages everyday doing inspections, if I ever go down and become unresponsive, PLEASE use the AED on me.....thank you.

newguyintv 08-17-2014 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 924555)
You're welcome.

And the golf course conditions? Do you think they are better?
Yes until the current aeration schedule started. Now they suck again!

newguyintv 08-17-2014 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 924546)
Do you have an alternative proposal??
Yep. Do nothing and save 1/2 million!


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