Biking on main streets
 

I did a search to check on this, but still unclear...

This morning, about 8:30, we drove up Buena Vista from 466a to 466. During the trip we saw at least 8 individual bikers in the right lane - most decked out in their bike suits, helmets, mirrors, etc. They were not riding together, but spread along BV during the drive. A few were not going fast at all. We were driving in the right lane, and each time had to swerve around each biker.

I don't seem to recall running into bikers (not truly...) on BV or Morse before. Aren't they mandated to take the Multi-Modal paths? Of course going around the roundabouts is challenge enough - but with a bike???

What gives?

Riding a bike in the Villages is the same as riding a bike on any other local road. Bikes and their riders are not restricted from the roads in any way. Cars should give the same courtesy extended to riders any place else and the bike riders should do same. Lucky for you they were not riding together [as some of the clubs do] and been a victim of their blowing around the traffic circles! Now that is an experience!

Do remember that the law is there must be a three foot clearance between you and the bike when passing. This applies to cars, trucks, golf carts, motorcycles and scooters. You may find bicyclists inconvenient but they do have the legal right to share the road with you.

Wasn't that question on the drivers test?

The ones that go out there and ride in a pack at a decent speed don't bother me. I don't mind that they blow a stop sign if they do it in a safe way.

The ones that worry and scare us the most are what my wife and I refer to as "The Wobblers". These are the ones that ride at 10 MPH or less and wobble all over the road, ride two abreast, ear buds listening to the radio or their playlist and totally oblivious to the traffic around them.

Today I was headed south on Buena Vista and there were 5 or 6 bicyclists in the right lane single file. All of a sudden, they spread out and took the entire right lane. Then the leader put out his left arm and all of them moved to the left lane without looking behind them. Then they proceeded through the Buena Vista/Camino Real circle without even slowing down. They went 3/4 around the circle and shifted into the right lane before exiting on Camino Real.

It was like a death wish waiting to happen.

Z

I'd like to hear from any of the bikers out there and get their perspective on how to share the road, what scares them etc. Anyone?

What I don't understand is, golf carts are not allowed on the roads unless they are registered, insured and can maintain 30 miles per hour, if bicycles want to use the roads they should have to register and insure them just like cars and golf carts especially if they want the same rights of the road as the afore mentioned vehicles.

Actually what I have asked in the past is if a golf cart goes faster than 20 mph the owner can be charged with driving an unregistered vehicle. Yet many bikers can well exceed 20 mph and the owner is not charged...and be clear that under the rues of the road bikes are vehicles and subject to the same rules as cars or carts.:mad:

Bicyclist all over the country are viewed with the same frustration by driver Articles have been written about the tension between auto drivers and cyclist.:mad: George is right about the wobblers they are the scariest of all but least we forget many cyclists believe the rules of road do not apply to them. In New York city some cyclist that are messengers remove their brakes:22yikes:

A street legal cart can go on roadways which have a 35 mph speed limit or less. The street legal cart may not exceed 25 mph.

A golf cart that is non-street legal may be on roadways which have a 30 mph speed limit or less. The non-street legal cart may not exceed 20 mph.

No such limitations on bikes.

I can absolutely guarantee you that they knew who was behind them - almost all serious cyclist have mirrors. They probably went through the roundabout at 20 mph or less, which is typically what many cars do and I am sure they entered the roundabout when it was clear to do so. Cyclist have every right to take up an entire lane, as do cars. It sounds to me that they were practicing safe riding.

Just like when you drive your car, a cyclist will also use mirrors to avoid turning their head. Usually they attach to your glasses or helmet because on a bike turning your head can be dangerous.

http://corneanews.files.wordpress.co...06/mirror1.jpg

Well, that is not what the law says.

A golf cart doesn't take a header when running over a squirrel or a bump. A bike can and frequently does. While there is some debris on a surface street, there is a tremendous amount on most paths, although most golf cart paths here are pretty clean and smooth. In TV, golf cart drivers are under the illusion all paths are for them and should not be shared by walkers, runners, dogs, bicyclists, etc. the drivers with this attitude make the paths hazardous for bikes. A walker can safely move to the grass area, most bikes cannot. On the road, there is nearly always enough room for a car to pass a bike safely and legally. Again, this is not always the case on the paths. Most experienced bike riders will take a road over a path any chance given. It's just safer and easier.

There should be NO bikes (pedal) on any roadway that has a posted speed of 35 mph or more.

I've seen them quite often and have wondered if they are out of their minds. I ride a bike and would always use the multi modal trails when they are available. Way would you put yourself in that kind of danger.

On the roads cars do not like sharing space with bicyclists or other slower moving vehicles. On the multi modal paths golf carts do not like sharing the paths with walkers or slow moving bicycles. People do not like to slow down or move over for other people. No one likes to be inconvenienced. You might think that people would be pleased to see older folk staying in shape by walking and bicycling. Just look at your average bicyclist or walker. They are usually in great shape. Why not just slow down a little, and move over a lane to get around them. It isn't really that much of a hardship is it?

Where do I start with this one,,, other than like 1-2 years ago when the old feller in the golf cart ran over the cyclist on the MMP by Bridgeport @ Lake Sumter Landing. Not only ran over, but then backed over him and stopped on top of him. Friend of mine was the Trooper on scene. He told me more accidents with carts on MMP than on the streets. He said the MMP are like a race track,, He had just stopped a cart for doing 34mph on the MMP on El Camino the week before.

Or when my daughter and wife got ran over from behind on the MMP by a golf cart across from Lakes and Live Oaks. Had to call 911. Daughter had to go to the ER. banged up. WIfe scraped up all because we were doing 20mph down the path and the cart wanted to pass. Luckily we had a good attorney.

I could go on and on when it comes to cyclist riding on the MMP. I ride the roads all the time. I merge into the round-a-bouts like all vehicles. The problem there is most people do understand how to navigate the circles. Thus it is a Cluster you know, trying to go around them.

As I have always stated on here, Cyclist have the right to the road as all do. I see as many cars, motorcycles, and Golf Carts break the rules as much as any. Take it as you like, but this is a retirement community. A place where you would want to take your time and enjoy the roads and life. Not drive like a bat out of **** to get your spot at Starbucks, or happy hours at the square.

The other things with the MMP, they are private property and SCSO does not like to police them, and ticket on them. But the FHP sure can when property damage or bodily injury happens.

Everyone relax,, enjoy The Villages. The roads are only as dangerous AS YOU MAKE THEM. A wise man once said that, Just cant think of his or her name right now. Heck could of been me. Or my favorite Gracie Girl.... :beer3:

I have no problem with the bikers riding in the roads, even though I don't bike on main roads in The Villages. Yes, they have every right to. My biggest complaint with bikers, is that they don't yield or stop for stop signs. In order to stop, they must dismount. I see that so often at gates, and streets with a stop sign. Cars have to stop at stop signs, and so should bikers. Other then that, its great to see people exercising by riding bikes.

You will see many bikers roll through STOP signs if it is clear and safe to do so. In some states this is legal - a so called "Idaho stop". It is not legal (yet??) in Florida. Many riders use "clip-in pedals", sort of like a ski boot, and it is generally safer and easier not to have to unclip and then clip back in. Typically cyclists will roll through stop signs at a pretty slow speed.

Regarding the golf cart paths, I tried riding on them once and never again - it is way too dangerous with a lot of traffic, blind turns, tunnels, cars crossing at the gates, etc. The roads, in my opinion, are actually safer.

From what you're describing the bikers were doing the right thing. The fact that you say you had to swerve around each biker worries me a bit. Maybe stay in the left lane until you pass all of the bikes.

I think the law should take second place behind common sense on the bike vs car vs golf cart vs walkers issue.

Exactly. You should treat bikes as slow moving cars. You pass them on the left when it is safe to do so and they are just as entitled to occupy a lane as you are.

The need to "swerve" out and around the biker often occurs because a driver suddenly comes up behind a biker they could not see in advance, in the dusk or in their clothing that's not reflective or neon colored. It seems like they have no fear of a 3,000+ vehicle hitting them accidentally.

Most bicyclists wear bright, neon colors. Many bicyclists have flashing lights on their helmets or on the back of their bike. You bring up a good point, though, that bicyclists should do everything they can to increase their visibility. I, personally, think it is important to have a flashing light in operation on all main roads. It is the first thing I notice when I come up behind a bicyclist, especially on Buena Vista and Morse Boulevards.

Best thing to do when driving a car around The Villages is to slow down, realizing that you are in a retirement community, and stay tolerant of all the people out doing healthy exercising such as walking and bicycling. Another suggestion is to get out of your car or golf cart and join the others who are enjoying exercising and losing weight! No one ever got in shape by driving around in a car or a golf cart.

thank-you, thank-you, thank-you

[
Best thing to do when driving a car around The Villages is to slow down, realizing that you are in a retirement community, and stay tolerant of all the people out doing healthy exercising such as walking and bicycling. Another suggestion is to get out of your car or golf cart and join the others who are enjoying exercising and losing weight! No one ever got in shape by driving around in a car or a golf cart.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, if cars would slow down instead of speeding there would be little need to always be taking evasive actions. I find that when cars are going 35-40mph in a 30, things get out of sync. Say that you are pulling out of a side street in a cart or bike onto a road where the speed limit is 30 and someone is coming that's going 40. You think they are going 30 so you pull out and he is immediately up your but.

Follow the speed limits, use the circles as noted, stop at stop signs but don't stop with no stop sign to let someone go that has a stop sign.

Prefer Roads
 

Bike ride 3 days a week. Prefer to stay off cart paths. Have had many more close calls from carts than cars. Cart drivers appear very impatient.

Generally stay on roads with a cart lane and then in that lane. Even here cart drivers give less attention to passing distance than cars.

When I do go on Buena Vista or Morse, it's never more than 2 - 3 blocks and always early morning. There is not much traffic and therefore no problem with cars easily passing in the left lane. I can pretty much anticipate a doofus driver now that I have some experience.

Cart drivers are definitely the worst offenders. Some drive blind around corners at full speed and have no idea about what is around the corner. I saw one guy have two wheels lift off the ground as he barely made the corner around Turtlemound. He did however take over the other side of the path, but I was OK as I had hit the brakes when I saw him. People who have altered their governors are very bad as well. They pass you when you are going 20MPH. My wife walks on the multimodal paths each morning, and she has had many cart drivers swear and yell at her that she and her companions should not be walking on the "golf cart paths," even though they walk facing traffic. It is unfortunate, but The Villages has a number of immature older adults who think only about having 'fun" and getting to wherever they need to go in a hurry. Get out of my way!

Bicyclists are not mandated to take the multi-modal paths.
You said that there were eight individual bikers at different intervals along Buena Vista in the right lane.
Since bicyclists are each legally entitled to a three-foot clearance, perhaps driving in the left lane would have been easier for you, rather than swerving in and out to remain in the right lane.

I biked NYC, Newark for a while and Philly for a while. Compared to those places, this is heavenly. No dogs chasing me or worrying about a car door opening. The roads are alway perfect and clean with no potholes.

I wear a helmet and don't understand why everyone doesn't. Someone said there were 3,000 bike accidents. I wonder if they know about helmets accidents vs no helmet accidents. I started wearing a ski helmet too. When I was a kid no one wore a helmet unless you were playing football.

Many times, in heavier 'traffic' - as it was in that morning, we prefer to stay in the right lane to go around traffic circles in that outer lane...safer we have found.

So for those that noted the 'swerve' word I used in the first Post = please...
It was simpler to use that word than 'pass over to the left lane then back to the right'... And how are we supposed to know there may be another biker further up BV again once we're in the right lane again. We were doing the speed limit, and a few of the bikes were going quite slow.

We respect the law, but just sayin'... it can appear to be turtle/hare on the roads at times; really need to be constantly alert.

Tonight, a prime example happened. An older man on a wobbly was ahead of me in the right lane, going southbound on Buena Vista at the Calumet Grove entrance. It was 6:50 p.m. and the sun had already set. It was "dusk", and low visibility. The man was dressed in dull grayish clothes, excelpt for his dull red shirt, and bike was grayish too. It was not easy to see him.

I stayed behind him because other cars were coming up behind me doing 35 mph as is the speed limit, and they had to "swerve" to go around me in my car, trailing behind the man going 11 miles per hour in a 35 mph zone. I eventually passed him, but I had to wait for the cars coming up behind me as they "swerved" to the left because they didn't expect a car or bicyclist ahead to be going only 11mph.

There was not a single cart or bike anywhere in sight on the multi-modal path, where this man should have been riding. From Calumet Grove all the way south to 466, I saw only one golf cart going southbound on the multi-modal, and I saw only 2 going northbound. The multimodal was empty and wide open.

Now I would like somebody to explain how it is preferable and safe for a wobbly, uncertain bicycle rider to be on a 4-lane avenue going 11 mph in a 35mph zone……

But a regular golf cart with power to accelerate, and ability to go 20 mph, is not allowed on that avenue amidst car traffic going 35. (I'm not saying I want regular carts in it. I'm comparing the safety.)

To me it makes no sense. The multimodal path was open and perfect for this type of rider.

I don't care if the biker is wrong or right . I always give them a wide berth. I would not want to be responsible for injuring or killing one.

Same here.

The man on the "wobbly" is an single example, most bikers move at a clip. I just don't understand that with the speed limits low and the mostly straight roads that anyone with vision good enough to drive and has experience enough to know the different modes of transportation there are around here would ever be surprised when they approach a bike on the road. It's the silly season and we all need to put the beer can and cell phone down and PAY ATTENTION TO DRIVING. Look ahead and anticipate your next move. Maybe travel at 30mph instead of 35mph.

I'm not sure that anyone ever said it was preferable or safe, just that it was legal. I agree that a wobbly rider is safer on the MM path.
I have flashers on my bike and I wouldn't dream of riding at dusk on a busy road.
It doesn't make sense to me either. But bicyclists are entitled to a three-foot clearance, no matter if they're going fast, or slow and wobbly. It's the law.

i had the same thoughts this morning when passing a couple of groups of bikers going north on morse below 466..with an empty golf cart path safely off the road, why would these bikers risk their lives going on morse blvd? doesn't make sense to me, but then i don't ride!

:1rotfl:It just amazes me that the same people who genuflect to the Developer for his well designed and well thought out paradise community made personally for them blame each other for encroachment on their rights to use roads and multi-modal paths. It can't be with a little more thought that some certainly not all of these issues could have been resolved. Its someone fault but never because of faulty design and planning????????????????????

Excellent posting! I too get frustrated sometimes but the law is the law. And common sense says we should expect to see bikers on the roads so as to not be too surprised when we come across them whether we think they should be there or not.

This morning going north on Buena Vista, we saw a real mix of bikers. On the MM Path was a group (about 10-15) of bikes going at a fair speed, less than golf carts that passed them though. At the same spot we saw a group of (about 5-6) tandem bikes being ridden on the southbound Buena Vista roadway, well below the speed of the bikes on the MM Path. We just remarked about the incident and wished them well as we continued on north.

Moral: All sorts of bikes will be on both the MM Path and on the road, and at various speeds so as the safe, considerate car-drivers we all are, we need to be ready for them. Ready for responses. :duck:

Why is that, do you think? Does anyone believe they have a different driving mindset when they're in their car vs their cart? Do cart drivers subconsciously not consider themselves to be in a "real" vehicle and thus feel the rules don't apply? Do they simply not know the rules?

I'm asking honestly, not being snarky. I rarely drive our cart and when I do, it's usually a short trip that I treat as a slow sightseeing tour or Sunday drive in the country. In other words, if I'm in a hurry or need to be somewhere, I'm not taking the danged cart.