Queen Palms, the REAL DEAL
 

I have heard so much mis-information about queen palms, I am starting this thread as a public service. I have lived here my whole life. Studied, grown, planted and tested palms for fertilizer and hydroponic reactions.

I will answer any questions according to my experience and investigations that are not always what the internet or experts from other zones may attest.

Butt Rot:

Portions of the trunk may be soft from other causes. Palm trunks are VERY strong,( like nature's fiberglass ) Advanced stages of Ganoderma Butt rot should display a mushroom growing out of the trunk, so without this symptom (mushrooms growing on the lower 4' of the trunk) I WOULD NOT remove the tree, unless there are other reasons you are removing it.

Frizzle Top:

Frizzle top is caused by a Manganese deficiency, NOT a Magnesium deficiency (Epsom Salts). The adding of Epsom salts without adding Manganese as well over time can cause frizzle top. The addition of Manganese can cure the disease.

is there any way to stop the formation of seed pods. They are too many per tree too many times per year and are messy and unsightly with the berries all over the yard.

The tree WANTS to make a pod or 2 per year. Cutting them out early ( unopened ) causes the palms to produce another pod. Let the pod open, bloom, and set seeds.
Then cut the pod out once the fruit is about the size of a grape, but still green, and you will have way fewer blooms for the year, and still get the pod out before the messy fruit ripens and drops on the ground.

Thanks for offering advise. When should the tops (is it frons) be trimmed? All mine are green and full. Any trimming necessary?

When we had the house built we, like many others wanted a tropical look....and we put in 9 queens.....now 10 years later I would opt for number 2 above but don't want the expense and mess of removing then repairing holes/etc.

The catch 22 for me is keeping them I have to hire somebody twice per year X 9 to keep them trimmed.......

Never again!!!!

If all the fronds are green and healthy, you don't need to trim any fronds to keep the tree healthy. I would only trim fronds that are 50% or more yellow/brown, touching your house or hanging down.

Mature, healthy queen palms will 'drop' 2-5 fronds per year, making room for the new fronds they produce. There are palms with a good shade canopy that do not 'drop' fronds as the new fronds are produced (Mules, Sylvesters, Canary, Pindos ) but the higher cost for these palms compared to the queen of equal height is significant.

There are shade trees that are not palms out there, but there is trimming, leaves, invasive root systems, tree bores, lichens, ball moss, gall, and shade to dense to grow grass under.

Agreed. 2-3 is more accurate, though often only one will complete the development of mature fruit . If you cut them early, there will be many more, and the pods will be produced from younger fronds that were not mature and intended to seed that year. Cutting seed pods early is not natural to the tree and likely unhealthy.

Also, there are diseases out there that will kill palms, that if detected early can be treated ( Texas Phoenix Palm Decline, Lethal Yellowing ), saving the palm. The early signs of these diseases appear in the formation of the blooms and fruit, and trimming pods prior to opening would not allow the early detection needed to save the palm.

Ozzello, thank you for starting this thread.

As a recent owner of a pre-owned home, I have been learning as much as I can about our landscaping.

I have fertilized our pre-owned palms twice in the past year and they seem happy about it. (I buy the official palm fertilizer.)

I did not get the fall fertilization done yet and I was late on the last one. (early August)

I know they should not be fertilized so close to the winter months but if I rush around today in a fertilizing frenzy, is that OK?

It is time-release -- I think. Whatever it is was recommended by the extension agent. And September had lots of rain. My northern gardener instinct is telling me to go ahead but to hurry up.

All I know for sure is that they are green not yellow and seem glad to see me.

I wonder about the various types of palms that I see turning yellow in yards where they must have cost a lot to put in, and now just look sad. Is it that manganese thing?

Would you please post about specifics of palm fertilization? (I use the same fertiliizer for all of them. Two are queens.)

Thank you.

Have you noticed that the developer does not plant Queen palms? That speaks volumes.

If you bit the bullet and had them removed, would you save in the long run? Would you need to have stump grinding done?

This thread is beginning to get depressing

We have found that there is less maintenance if:
 

You cut the palm about 2 inches below the ground....Hate those Palms!:bigbow::bigbow:

Hello Laurie, and you're welcome.

Hope I posted in time to say NOOOO. I like to error on the side of caution. That late fertilization could cause new growth that could damage easier during winter.

The yellow is possibly a lack of nutrients, but there are lots of other common causes (Newly planted and someone missed the water schedule a few weeks prior, air pocket UNDER the root ball, et al).
Palms use equal amounts of manganese and magnesium with a small amount of iron to grow and be green. I like using micro nutrients to supplement the palm fertilizer, or doubling up the recommended feeding but NEVER on a newly planted tree that was dug (If it came out of a pot is fine (wait about a year for TRANSPLANTS). Have yet to see an established palm get fertilizer burn, and I have tried really hard to do so.

Thank you for your questions, hope I was of help :)

Give me some time Rubicon, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

"Come into my parlor, said the spider to the fly"

Well Bubblegum, thank you for your post. Where do I start? Heck the beginning seems logical.

1a. I won't just defend queen palms, but anything/one I see falling victim to untruths and/or opinions stated as fact ( a narcissistic trait, I might add)
1b. This is "The Truth About Queen Palms" thread, not" Palms vs 'Real' trees". What is a REAL tree anyway, in your opinion, or heck Bubblegum, state some facts if you got em.

2. 2nd paragraph is not even worth my time.

3a. Any 'real tree' tree vs any palm is always less maintenance? Um. Sylvesters, pindos and most of the date (Phoenix)
varieties will grow for years without fronds turning brown. There are also self pruning palms.
I know people spending $1000s to rake leaves every year. Are the repairs to my home an oak limb fall through the roof considered maintenance?
3b. Palm roots stay about the same diameter for the life the tree. Other trees or "real" trees, have roots that grow outward and get larger in diameter gradually for the life of three. I am sure you have all seen the upheaval of roads, sidewalks and even home foundations. Unless planted too close to something, the palms don't do this.. I won't use a term as broad as "ALL" the other trees, but most all regular trees will.

OK, this is feeling like a good deed turning into work, going to hit some golf balls.
I will complete my rebuttal of Bubblegum's post in the near future, at my leisure :)

3c. Tree bores ARE common in FL. I see damage on more than half of the soft woods (maple, birch, dogwood, elm) over 3" in caliper.
3d Ball moss and lichens are epiphytic (meaning they live on the surface) but they are far from harmless. They bore into the cambium layer beneath the bark and like a leech, suck the nutrients out of the plant. Doubtful they would ever completely kill the tree (leaving themselves homeless and hungry), but once established, lichen and ball moss would render impossible the plant/tree ever being healthy.

4a. Yes, queens are less expensive per size than other palms.
4b TV is not borderline, it is the zone furthest north the Dept. of Agriculture recommends.
4c. A trash tree? Man you have some real hate issues going on here.
4d. Spent several hours reviewing Prof. Broschat, T. K of UF and what he has written on Queen Palms. He said the tree is fine in zone 9b. Zone 9b is where we are in The Villages.
4e. Cockroaches bugs and rats? Never have I found rats or mice in a queen palm, though I HAVE seen plenty in oak trees. And to continue this comparison..WAY more bugs in the oaks as well. Now the sable palmetto palm is another story. The frond boots hold a lot of thatch and debris, making them a great hgome for palmetto bugs..or cockroaches as you call them.

5a. Wow again. Lots of birds live in palm tree canopies and trunks. Just like 'other trees', palms make fruit and house insects, lizards etc. for the birds to feed on.
5b. Palms DO have shade, depending on what kind of palm as to the density. The good part about palm shade, is the canopy stops expanding at some point and only grows up, eliminating large limbs growing out over the home.

Most likely will need to be ground out...depending how close to the ground they can get. The next time they come for trimming I will get a price to remove.
If reasonable, then the battle will be with my wife.....and I stand a good chance of losing this one!!

What developer? The home builder, golf course or common areas?

The home builder is required by The State of FL building code to plant 1 or more (depending on lot size) native trees with a minimum trunk size. A native palm would be expensive compared to other trees
I have noticed many of these code trees are not native. The dwarf magnolias, oak leaf holly, and crepe myrtle are not native. The oaks and East Palatka holly are natives.

Golf Course developers plant a lot of Sable palms , Silver Saw Palmetto, Washingtonia . In the commercial venue, these palms cost less than Queen palms. You will see a few Queens, Phoenix varieties and other palms on the golf courses though on the upscale courses.

The common areas developer plants the palm trees according to the Landscape Architect and what is available in his area. Most of the licensed Landscape Architects near here are in Gainesville and Jacksonville, where it is too cold for queen palms.

The best way to remove the tree, is to keep 8 to 10 feet of trunk, dig around the stump and remove stump, using the trunk for leverage.
The frugal way is to cut low and grind, leaving the root ball preventing you from planting anything large enough to balance a landscape design where a tree was needed.

Basically one and the same as far as say so.

I have lived in Texas with no trees, Georgia with too many trees, and Florida with palm trees. Each sitituation has it's plus and minus. Personally I love my palm trees....even the Queens.

Again Chi, everyone has an opinion. You for your home, the landscape arch for his design.... Really looking to talk facts here. 'The developer' of every home , golf course and common area in TV is NOT one and the same, not even close.
And, often.. they DO plant queen palms.

Just curious, why are you giving all this information on queen palms? When I talked to the master gardeners here, they told me not to plant those palms in this area because of all the problems associated with them.

Not at all. Sponsors like this one pay so the rest of us can enjoy the board without charge. Their post provided a source for the fertilizer recommended by Master gardeners and the UF extension. A lot of the Palm fertilizer sold doesn't have all the micronutrients to keep them healthy. Nice to know where I can get it, even delivered.

Actually, all palm fertilizers have those same nutrients. I use the same stuff and buy it at Wal mart for less than half of the $48 bucks.

I know he pays to advertise on this site, but the threads and posts themselves are supposed to be free of people advertising, according to ToTV.

If you go back to the beginning post, I stated why. Because there is a lot of mis-information floating around lately about Queen Palms. I base my posts here on my education and 40 years of experience, not someone else's opinion, most likely from another geographical zone.

So, how many master gardener's did you speak to? Out of curiosity. Though I know the Master Gardner's course is put on by UF, in Gainseville, zone what..8 or 7? Last time a mature Queen palm froze in this area, was back in the 80s after TWO 100 year/cycle freezes back to back. We lost about 1-2%. I am aplant guy, not a math guy though, so not sure on the odds of another 2- 100 year freezes hitting this area , 2 years in a row.

I spoke with several master gardeners right here in the villages at the UF annex by the sheriffs office and also attended several of the classes given by the UF at the community centers. They were the ones who brought the subject up. I took it as great information from people who know about the proper plants and trees to grow here.

Now. I know. I am a loser. A pariah. I might even be stupid.

I did not know that, until this thread took off.

When I started reading the thread, I just wanted to learn about palm trees. But as the thread continued, oh my goodness, that is when my loserdom became all too apparent.

Yes. I have a couple of queen palms in my yard. Mea culpa. Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa.

I did not plant them. But I want to take care of them. Until they offend me in some unforgivable way. And then it will be, "Off with their heads! And their butts!"

I have to laugh because on TOTV sometimes people sure can get into it a bit. Or maybe I am just laughing to try to hide my shame. My loserness. Hey. I sure can't hide those big queen palms out there in my yard.

But for now, I just want to take care of what I have. So thank you for trying to help those of us who are harboring big, tall, lovely queen palms, here in Zone 9a, as we teeter on the brink.

Nope, this is NOT an official UF recommendation at all, nor anything taught a professor at UF teaching horticulture. Just a person's opinion on the Master Gardener's staff.

In certain circles, there are those with the opinion that only native species should be planted, or that only plants and trees that produce edible fruits and nuts be planted. Some would say you should only plant drought tolerant species. Though each of these opinions has merit, it would be a boring world, and detrimental in the long run to delete ANY species from the earth.
There have been may mistakes made introducing invasive species to non-native locations, but barring a species being invasive in your location, it is all about comparing the good and bad traits that EVERY plant has and deciding if you think that plant or tree is worth the trouble.
Everyone has an opinion, but the 'anti' opinion always seems to speak the loudest. Focusing on a weakness, they point fingers and dance around in verbal witch hunts spouting opinions and outright lies as if they are facts. If you look for yourself, you will see in the established areas of TV, many healthy and beautiful queen palms, many of them planted over a decade ago. There are many other great palms out there to plant, native and non-native species of conifers and deciduous trees as well, each has pros and cons. The funny thing about most of the people loudly proclaiming their opinion about what they are against, is they are rarely actually FOR anything, and if they are, it is only their own selfish agendas.

ueens.
 

I'm with you Laurie. Moved here in '07--house built in '04--4th owner. Had two Queens in front yard---don't know who planted them but I do love the Queens. We lost one a few years after we moved here due to cold but the one left is beautiful.

Three or four of our neighbors had them but someone came through the neighborhood and "poked" their finger in the bark and told them they had "the rot"--therefore, they had them cut down. I didn't let them "poke" mine --- it looks healthy--is so full and we will take care of it as long as we can.

Http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/st609

I have completed the Master Gardener training and I'm currently performing volunteer hours in order to become certified. It is disturbing to see how much misinformation is being given without citing of sources.

For example, the link above from the UF source used by master gardeners throughout the state clearly gives the zones in which planting queen palms is safe for cold hardiness. Sumter County is in zone 9a and therefore not appropriate for planting Queen Palms. No recommendations against them are made except to prevent loss due to cold.

The University of Florida Institute of food and agricultural sciences, or ifas, is easily searchable for the same research disseminated by the extension office.

I encourage anyone who would like the horses mouth to speak regarding plant concerns to either directly contact the master gardeners or the extension office or to search for themselves online.

http://sumter.ifas.ufl.edu/pdfs/Cold%20Protection.pdf

So are we really in the tropics and nearly immune from freeze? No.
Ifas, UF info based on data and research...see link.

Frizzle Top: Not sure what you call "many", but I see very little. I did have a customer with a queen almost dead from frizzle top last year. He began adding Manganese sulfate, and the palm has completely recovered.
Frizzle top is listed as a disease, but it is simply a Manganese deficiency, typically caused by adding Epsom salts without additional Manganese.

You say queens are on Florida's do not plant list, then you say it is from UF. As I said before, this is NOT UF's nor the State of FL's list, merely the opinion of one man hosting the Master Gardener Club.

Brazillian Peppers and Melaleuca ARE on the States invasive species do not plant list, hardly a comparison to the queen palm.

The average lowest temperature for this area, is 26 degrees F. The queen palm can handle several hours at 22 degrees, and even an hour or 2 in the high teens.

Temperatures in Ocala (North of here and not in the same zone) have been the high teens only 7 times in the last 40 years.