Police shoot youth...
 

The youth was a convicted fellon and was pointing a 9MM at the policeman.

I've been surfing the net and The news headlines appear to be incendiary. They would have us focus on that the cops camera wasn't on. Did they not pay attention? Felon, gun ... That's enough for me.

Did you see the ruckus that followed? Tossing bricks and bombs at the police!
Dam I say you throw a brick at me and I'd shoot to kill.

I seriously doubt that these protesters have any idea of what they are protesting. It's just an excuse to make trouble. Where are the marchers who support the police and rule of law?

Police first. Criminals last

Pointing what looks like a weapon at a police officer never ends well.

of course the protesters reacted. These are the same people who upon learning to police officers celebrated and kept chanting we want dead cops when to want them we want them now.

If I were a cop the blue flu would sure be inviting. but they are oath keepers

The news should read--

Youth shot by policeman.

That's how the news should read period.
Do they print white policeman shoots a irishman, polish, german, chinese, russian no

Perhaps because you are at home with media available and not at the locale where rumors swirl you make a more measured judgment. If you were in a town right next to Ferguson and heard that another black man had been shot by another white cop (even if those racial identities turned out to be wrong) you would be very angry. You will see this particular shooting disappear from the focus of the community once the videos are more widely seen. It was clearly a self defense shooting.

However that does not mitigate the question of whether we have a problem in this country with poor policing. This officer forgot to put on his camera? It is part of his required equipment or it is optional, I don't know which but I would expect that he is required to wear it.
One can support a strong and professional and well trained police force and simultaneously call for justice when people are killed by police. Justice does not mean conviction, justice means a full unbiased investigation and when appropriate trial. And call for a system where bad cops and rogue cops and racist cops are removed from their jobs. Just as one can support the military but vigorously protest against My Lai and Abu Ghraib. Just as one can love your kids but let them know when they make a mistake.

Even Fox News opinionators were surprised that the NY Grand Jury didn't indict in Garner's death, for something. What many seem to not understand is the appearance that the lives of black men mean nothing in our judicial system. Whether they are shot, choked, stopped while walking, driving, shopping, jogging or sitting in a park, they are suspected more than respected.
With that background I understand the sensitivity to the next and the next and the next shooting, whether justified or not.

Totally agree with blueash. Thank you for saying what I think and saying it so well.

It is just that so many black lives are heading toward that confrontation that saddens me. WHY? Both Garner and Brown had broken the law and both resisted arrest. PLEASE don't forget that. People who are insane are shot. Remember the young woman near the White House a few years back who tried to ram her car through the White House gates? She had her children in the car and they killed her. She was mentally ill and I couldn't tell you what color she was. That is how it IS, Blueash. People need to know WHEN to STOP. Stop means stop and messing with an armed police officer could get you very dead. THE LAW HAS to be respected. I don't think Garner or Brown had anything to do with RACE.


Blueash. Do you have any thoughts as to why so many young black men are suspected rather than respected?

What do you mean by "these are the same people"? Where were there celebrations of the deaths of the NYC cops or the one here in Florida? I am not aware of any celebrations rather universal condemnation seemed to have been the response. You have posted that people who protested in Berkeley are the same people who chanted "we want dead cops" (no such protest chart ever was reported from Berkeley) and are the same people who celebrated the shooting of the cops, no such celebration was reported anywhere in the country that I saw reported. So now, please explain your statement because what it seem to suggest is that all black people are the same and they are all responsible for any actions of any other black person, even actions that never happened.

And the oath keepers is an organization that tells cops and military to DISOBEY orders when the individual feels the order is against that person's personal interpretation of the constitution. It is a far right group with politics that closely align with the militia movement. What makes you believe that most cops are members of such an organization? Or perhaps you didn't mean that organization and it was just a coincidental use of the same to (sic) words

Well stated................

There were numerous reports of protesters cheering the NYPD officer murders, including on social media.

Blueash.

On your statement about black people being suspected rather than respected.

Making summary judgments according to statistics about groups of people happens all of the time.

Do you know why young drivers have higher insurance rates?

Sometimes the truth is VERY SAD.

Gracie, I think you are sweet and naïve. Garner and Brown had a lot to do with race. Garner is an especially egregious example as most everyone agrees.

Bill OReilly:
" Mr. Garner clearly a low level offender was not a threat. American police are held to a very high standard because they have power. They have guns. They must control inflammatory situations not make them worse. "
Krauthammer:
the grand jury's decision here is totally incomprehensible. It looks as if at least they might have indicted him on something like involuntary manslaughter at the very least.

If the people on Fox see that the Garner case was an injustice then it certainly was an injustice.

This case might help you to understand how a black person might have fear of the cops. A well publicized case where a not perfect black person dies at the hands of a group of New York's finest for selling illegal cigarettes and there are not consequences. It looks like open season on black men

Gracie, how comfortable would you be walking around in Over the Rhine at 2 AM? Do you personally know anyone who has actually been harmed in OTR? Do you believe as a white woman that either your race or your gender might make you a target in that part of town? You have heard stories of people like you who did get hurt, robbed etc. So maybe you would be very leery of all the thousands of perfectly nice people who live in OTR because of the very few who might do you harm. I gather from your previous posts that you have had many very positive interactions with black people through the years. But now, you are distressed because there were some lack of smiles on your recent trip.

If you were a black man you can be absolutely certain that you would have had many negative interactions with police, storeowners, the stares of white people .. crossing to the other side of the street, following you in stores, stopping you for driving while black. You would be leery of cops even though you understood that they have a difficult job, you would still have more than a little discomfort when you saw one in your rear view mirror or one approached you on the street. Just like you are discomforted by the approach of a perfectly innocent black teen at 2 AM in OTR.
Our society is still very permeated by racism (sorry to all those who would deny it and don't want it pointed out). You noticed that black people didn't smile at you. You are racially aware as are we all, cops included.

The challenges faced by a black person are different and greater than those lucky enough to have been born white. I am given the benefit of the doubt when shopping, driving, interacting. Too often a black person is not. It is their reality not just a perception. I have no solution, I have no suggestion. I just try to understand why the black community can see institutional racism when so many white people cannot. Maybe it is the same for Jews being more sensitive to anti-Semitic comments and politics. Maybe it is the same for Muslims who get the permit for building a mosque turned down or find they are stared at in airports. Maybe it is the same when a black man standing at the valet desk outside a trendy restaurant awaiting his car is asked by the white man in line to go get that man's car assume that any black man at the stand must be a car parker. Sad to say racial consciousness pervades every interaction for all of us and the brunt of that truth is to detriment of black people.

Other than some tweets, please find me a "numerous report" of protesters cheering the deaths of cops? I cannot find any such reports Perhaps you have sources I have not identified? Tweets do not fit my idea of what constitutes a celebration. The term suggests people happily cheering in the streets. Find me that story. It may exist, I can't find it.

And one last post in my attempt to have truthful discussions. I can find no evidence that this person was a convicted felon. I found websites listing misdemeanor convictions but not felonies. But of course if you were to write the youth was convicted of misdemeanors it wouldn't paint as negative a picture. Frankly, IMO, if he had never had a single interaction with law enforcement but he pointed a gun at a cop, the shooting was justified; but, I wish posts would reflect facts in the real world not exaggerated ones.

Blueash--Maybe you are looking only for the positives, be real

After 40 yrs of getting the best treatment of any nationality, including free education, free placement in employements, frre financing to get stsrted in business, plus machinery,etc.
what have you to say after 40 yrs of special treatment, I have friends who were held back in promotions because of them being whitr.
I suggewst you open your ryes and be fair and honest.

BLUEASH.........Do a bit more research before discounting others posts.

I saw and heard on numerous news reports, videos of the chanting to kill police.

The deceased was a convicted felon.

Gracie is deffinetly not naive.

Paul. I am not swayed by people's opinions on Fox News. I don't go to high crime districts because there is high crime.

I know that Jack Kennedy didn't shelter us Catholics and back then we got our share of negative jabs.

I know a lot of things. I think it was damned stupid for black parents to not tell their kids the same thing that other parents tell their kids. i.e.If a police officer stops you, be polite, do what he says, follow directions, etc. etc.

The world is what it is. And by the way Paul. I usually smile at everyone and everyone usually smiles back.

If you are stupid enough to point a gun or something that looks like a gun at a cop-you should expect to maybe get shot. I don't support people who break the law on purpose;I will and do support police that are doing their job. I only wish they could stop doing their jobs for a week and see how the protesters like that. We are becoming a society where we are afraid to make people feel bad, where we excuse bad behavior and we give way to much to people who have done nothing to earn it. Telling officers to stand down when people are breaking the law is idiotic.

From USA news

Antonio Martin, who had an extensive criminal background which included “multiple uses of weapons since he was 17,” was killed at a gas station last night after an incident that was captured on surveillance camera.

St Louis police say an armed black teenager shot dead by police in Berkeley, Missouri, was known to law enforcement. The 18-year-old victim, named locally as Antonio Martin, had been arrested for assault, armed robbery and unlawful use of a weapon

Www.mediaite.com carried:
Concha: ‘They Deserved It’: The Repulsive Reaction to Brooklyn Police Executions
by Joe Concha | 1:15 am, December 21st, 2014
1824


You might also check out The Daily Beast, and Fox.

Being arrested for a crime doesn't mean being convicted. In this instance, it is totally irrelevant what kind of record the deceased had. He pointed a gun at a police officer. The officer was doing his duty. The shooting was and is totally defensible.

Most black parents I know go well beyond telling their sons to be polite when stopped. The parents fully understand to be less than polite can be their son's death warrant. However, try telling a 19 YO to sit still when being stopped for the nth time for doing nothing wrong, just having the wrong skin color. Tell a 25 YO who has committed a minor crime that it is okay for him to be beaten and humiliated when being arrested.

Talk to two young men with the exact same backgrounds (whether from a ghetto or an upper class neighborhood), one white and one of color. Odds are the young man of color would have been stopped three times as often as the white man. Not only that, he would have been humiliated more often, brought in for questioning more often, demeaned more often.

Whether we like it or not, young men of color are angry. They've been shown over and over their lives have little value in this society. They are not treated fairly. Police officers need to treat all suspects evenly. If they won't stop a white youth walking down the street, then they shouldn't stop a black youth. If a white kid driving a BMW is okay, then it should be okay for a black kid.

Don't get me wrong, that doesn't excuse disrespecting an officer when stopped, whether physically or verbally. However, I certainly understand their frustration and anger. Things need to change on both sides. Until they do, things are just going to escalate on both sides. Police officers are afraid right now, rightfully so. So are young black men and, again, rightfully so.

I'm scared right now. The race riots of the 70's were ugly and frightening. If they occur now, they'll be a lot uglier and far more frightening. Someone made the comment to a friend of mine that it is no longer a conversation, it is now a war. I sincerely hope this comment is wrong but my gut says it is spot on.

all the perps have to do is stop breaking societies laws

Amen

1) You didn't look too hard as I googled his name with plus sign and 'criminal record'
2) your responses ignore some very pertinent points ...they were resisting arrest.
3) in one instance the supervising officer was a black gal.

I have several friends who immigrated from Africa - one in particular got an MBA then a law degree... He doesn't have too much trouble with the police he doesn't have time. He doesn't see oppression in our country he sees opportunity.

Another colleague (big black guy) has an engineering degree told me the secret of his success. "My 110lb mother would kick my butt if I stepped out of line."

I for one am sick to death of those who say It's not my fault. I have no sympathy for anyone who throws bricks at another human being. I have little truck with the police because I don't steal, rob, assault or carry an illegal fire arm.

Two NY policeman were killed in cold blood by a Black man and the protesters don't have the decency to not protest until after their funerals---as they say action speaks louder than words. The Mayor (who has supported the protesters) pleaded with them to suspend but sadly the marches continue.

I so agree. Being a LEO is hard enough without having to second guess every desision you make. Officers do not care what color anyone is when there is a gun pointed at them. Officers are taught that if your weapon is used, use it to kill, or don't use it at all.

Where do I start?
1. How about the statement of poor policing? Why isn't there discussion about the poor parenting skills of the single parent (not ""parents in MANY cases) of these sweet little angels that ARE NEVER DOING ANYTHING WRONG.
2. The Body Camera? They had just been issued and the Officer had been in a meeting and missed when they were issued and the initial training on them. It was given to him on his way out to his shift and he wasn't trained in the use of it yet.
3. Fox News? Nothing else needs said about that Liberal media outlet.
4. Black men in the judicial system and why are they suspected more? Do you ever watch the news from major cities and, if so, what race is shown in incidents more than not?

I have many friends that are Black and they are great people. What separates them from the black males being shot by the police for their wrongdoing, the black males that are inciting the violent riots, i.e., Michael Browns stepfather, the black males that are looting, trashing and burning buildings, the black males THAT ARE SHOOTING EACH OTHER WITH NO REGARD? My black friends were raised right and have the correct core values with regards to living right and in turn, receiving respect. We talk a lot about what is going on in today's world and NONE OF THEM ever remembers being hassled by the Police.

#bluelivesmatter
#policelivesmatter

I have an opinion on that. Although the term carries a negative connotation, stereotypes have basis in fact and with a few absurd exceptions, tend to be true.

First a little about a group called A.N.S.W.E.R which is short for Act Now to Stop War and End Racism. This group was formed shortly after 9/11/2001 and is a communist group. They demonstrated any war A.N.S.W.E.R. em it enthusiastically supported both Kim il Jung and Saddam Hussein, and is led in part by the Muslim Student Association. It has total solidarity with and is outspoken in its support of the Palenstinian cause

ANSWER, which at its core included a partnership between Arab and non-Arab activists, fought a long and successful battle against excluding the Palestinian,
In August of this year they lead a march protesting Israel. Their current website has a headline front page lauding the US announcement concerning Cuba and Stop the WAR on Black America.

ANSWER Coalition Home

This is from Wikipedia......".... its steering committee consists of socialists, civil rights advocates, and left-wing or progressive organizations from the Muslim, Arab, Palestinian, Filipino, Haitian, and Latin American communities. Many of ANSWER's lead organizers had ties to the International Action Center, and Workers World Party at the time of ANSWER's founding

A.N.S.W.E.R. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

If you read it, this is a pretty mean spritied and communist group.

THIS GROUP has been working with Sharpton on these demonstrations thus those taking part are being conned in my opinion. This from them concerning not heeding the mayors request to cease demonstrations until the two policeman are buried.

"Another group, The Answer Coalition, said it would go ahead with a long-planned march Tuesday evening, and denounced the mayor for what it called an "outrageous" attempt to chill free speech. The New York Post reported that a few dozen protesters staged a "die-in" at Grand Central Terminal before marching toward Times Square. "

NYC protesters say they won't stop demonstrations despite de Blasio's wishes | Fox News

This quote from REDWITCH got my attention...."I'm scared right now. The race riots of the 70's were ugly and frightening. If they occur now, they'll be a lot uglier and far more frightening. Someone made the comment to a friend of mine that it is no longer a conversation, it is now a war. I sincerely hope this comment is wrong but my gut says it is spot on.

I agree with her. There is a sound reason to be totally petrified by what is happening in this country. There is manipulation of major proportions going on right now,and instead of applauding good news economically, we are allowing our country to be torn apart socially.

I agree with Rich Lowry today in the NYPOST...who said...

"We have heard a lot lately about tensions between the police and the communities that they serve, and the urgent need to reduce them. Here’s an easy first step: Stop lying about the cops.
The “national conversation” about race and policing we’ve been having ever since Michael Brown was shot by Officer Darren Wilson in Ferguson, Mo., last summer has been based on lies.
The lie that Officer Wilson shot Brown while he had his hands up and was pleading “Don’t shoot.”
The lie that New York City policemen targeted Eric Garner for a violent arrest because he was black.
The lie, peddled especially by the progressive prince of New York City, Mayor de Blasio, that the police are racist.
These are the lies that fuel hatred for the police, because if the police routinely execute black men in cold blood and serve a thoroughly racist system, they deserve to be hated."

Stop lying about the cops | New York Post

Or from Mike Lupica from the Daily NEWS

"Only it is too late to save two cops in a patrol car who never had a chance. At a time when there has been the general notion that cops in New York City are under attack, these two cops were the ones attacked in Brooklyn, but will inspire no movements or crusades, from Al Sharpton or anybody else. They will not rouse those such as the actor Samuel L. Jackson to sing about them, the way he sang not long ago about “racist police.”

Lupica: NYPD killings come as some think cops are threat - NY Daily News

In the same article, Lupica says....

"You know how it has gone here for weeks. You know there has been this cockeyed notion that because one cop didn’t get indicted in Staten Island that somehow all cops should be indicted in New York. Who takes to the streets now for two cops who don’t make it to Christmas?"
'

Warning...be careful. This total, unthinking support of these supporters is based on lies and a dogma that we just do not need in this country.

If there is institutional racism in any part of our government, lets address it. I did some research on stops of blacks and whites by police, etc and frankly those of hispanic ethnicity are stopped more than either black or white. I also looked into some wrtings on WHY. Seems police are mostly in black areas because that is where the crime is, thus they stop more blacks than whites.

To me, this is an ECONOMIC issue being disguised as a race issue. And it is based on two people who broke the law and insisted they were not going to abide by a police instruction, which I think they would know better than anyone is not a good thing.

Life is not fair, but in this country we have ways to address these issues and we do not need the help of a communist group lathering up the troops. We do not need professional agitators like Sharpton.

We have come so far and we are know in the depths of racism and this is not going away anytime soon.

Lets just look at facts....lets look at the players....

I read that, where does it say he was a convicted felon? It says he had arrests not convictions. I was not aware that we have now gone to the presumption of guilt and conviction based on arrests reports. Again, I am not arguing that Mr Martin's death was an unjustified shooting. I am asking that accurate reporting of information ought to be the goal of any discussion. He was not according to what I read, and what you posted a convicted felon as the OP wrote. If you have some evidence of his being convicted of a felony I would welcome that information. It would seem very unlikely that an 18 year old with a felony conviction would not be incarcerated.

And what nationality are black people? When you see a black person in law or medicine or on the police or firefighter, do you think they got there because of racial preference and are likely not as good as the white people doing the same job? It is sad how white people have been oppressed for the last 40 years and no longer can get good jobs or into a good school because all those black people are getting in when there are more qualified white people who don't. That explains all the black kids in medical schools and all the black CEOs. That explains why only white people have overwhelming student loans as all black people got a free ride.
Sometimes when a black person gets a promotion over a white person, the black person has more to offer the company and earned the promotion.

On the link you provided there is a story of a single individual who refused to give his full name reporting what he claimed to have heard said. There is not a report of any celebration. I cannot find anything on Fox nor Beast to fit the narrative being presented that the black community in Berkeley nor anywhere else supported the killing of the cops.

What is glee and jubilation then? As for Fox and The Beast, I found them

Knowing you will surely misinterpet what I say here, as it is not meant as any defense for anything, but MOST of the calls of police racism are based on just about the same thing as you brush aside here.

Why is it that when the use of pot is higher by white teens than by black teens, the arrests for pot are so much higher for black kids?

The Scandal of Racist Marijuana Arrests

marijuana-arrests.com

So there is something more than whether or not a person breaks the law that is factoring into who gets arrested. And it is apparently color of the law breaker's skin. Being white relatively protects you from being arrested for a crime which a black person doing the same thing is not protected.

Folks do tend to extrapolate the statistics as you have, but there are other ways to look at it.

Did you or anyone ever think that the police presence is where the crime is....the crime is predominately in black areas...thus more arrests ????

I know that sounds racist to you, but just think about it. The whites are smoking but there are not many police where they are, but in a black area you wll find a larger police presence

PS....Sorry, I asked if you or anyone had ever thought of what I said....of course they have but you wont read it anywhere....not the in thing to say or do

The topic is the recent police shooting incident in Berkeley, MO. Please stay on topic and avoid engaging in personal disputes.

Because pot arrests are typically incidental to being detained for another offense.