Measles
 

There was a thread on the regular board recently, which started out as an attempt to mock some members of a political party that the OP does not like at all, but I have some questions of those in the medical field or otherwise about all this publicity.

Ok...I know what is occuring and I even know why, ie. the study that said do not get shots because it may cause autism. I got all that. I have tried to do my due diligence and read a bit on this.

1. Last year in an Amish community there were over 300 cases reported which accounted for over half of ALL cases last year. It was reported by not so mucn.

2. We have many news stories now about the vaccination process, etc. and I understand how it began, etc.

3. We are at a point where such grief is being spread through the media about schools not allowing children to come to school unless vaccinated. EVERY state in the union says you must get vaccinated, HOWEVER, 48 of the 50 allow for exceptions based on religion, etc.

4. Political folks are being asked about it and it is reported nationwide what they say, including the President of the US. In 2008 during the campaign it was a small issue but then, the study linking measles to autism had not been debunked as of yet.

5. Studies show that a formula is used to determine the percentage required to be vaccinated to call a disease non exsistant or not a threat.

Ok....questions....

If those children not allowed in school do not have vaccinations, who are the schools protecting if that means everyone else in the school was vaccinated ?

I read that the vaccine is 95% accurate thus who are we protecting or alarming with all this media discussion ?

WHY was this headlines news when a few political folks responded to questions about it ?

Not downplaying anything but just not getting how this fits in anyway into the political arena.

Children under one year old cannot be vaccinated - so those children not vaccinated put them at risk along with anyone that might have a weak immune system. These infants can be exposed to these children in any number of surroundings, it is not just an issue in school; however requiring vaccination as part of entering school is a good way to track this and hopefully immunize as many as possible.

You'd know how it became political if you acknowledged the recent absurd Measles comments made by Rand Paul, Chris Christie and Ted Cruz.

That is why I posted the original.....

WHY WERE THEY ASKED AND IT REPORTED SO LOUDLY ?

There have been several different accounts reported.

Rand Pauls remarks bothered me. Christie actually only restated existing policy in 48 of our 50 states. Cruz said and this is an excerpt...

"Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, told reporters Tuesday that the vaccination issue "is largely silliness stirred up by the media. Nobody reasonably thinks Chris Christie is opposed to vaccinating kids other than a bunch of reporters who want to write headlines." CBS News' John Nolen reports that Cruz went on to say, "This question has historically been decided at the state level. And most states choose to do what the state of Texas does which is to mandate vaccines for children to prevent the outbreak of infectious diseases." A statement he released noted that most states make exceptions for good-faith religious convictions, "But on the question of whether kids should be vaccinated, the answer is obvious, and there's widespread agreement: of course they should."

Election 2016: Potential candidates Rand Paul, Chris Christie weigh in on measles vaccine - CBS News

I find no fault with this statement at all.

Not sure I understand our media or headline writers...wow...

Anyway, my questions revolved around my questions which I posted here because someone tried to make it political on the normal thread so I thought I would save him the time of going right after the political aspect, WHICH I STILL DO NOT UNDERSTAND OR SEE.

Anyone who is a member of the Armed Services is required to be immunized.
A child going into a public school has to be immunized regardless of citizenship status.
Maybe, Charter schools are exempt.
On a political note (I guess) I haven't seen such an uproar since flouride was added to the public water supply in the 50's.

politically speaking, i notice that the major networks never show the clip of robt kennedy junior talking about the dangers of the measles vaccine....selective outrage.

That is a great point. I find the "selective outrage" to be stunning recently.. All parties do and have done this same thing but in the last years, it is so without regard for what is best for our country.

There was a post on the regular board, prior to the new political, that was so sneaky and underhandedly political, I was in awe of the creativity to create an issue where none exists.

The reason this is political, and people running for office need to asked for their approach is because of the guidance it gives the voters with how a politician uses science in establishing policy. Freedom is such a buzzword on the right that it needs to asked where does Freedom end and the public good begin. When does well established science trump demagoguery from both extremes? Consider the Ebola issue we went thru just before the last election. One side screamed about lock them up, shut all the borders, no travel to or from Africa. The scientists and epidemiologists attempted to infuse some facts into the discussion about the real risks of spread, the virology, the lack of need for isolation of exposed but well persons. But many, including Christie, and others mentioned above decided to ignore the science.

Evolution is proven, Global climate change with a significant contribution by humans is proven, vaccines are important and do not cause autism is proven.

Robert Kennedy Jr has been roundly criticized by those on the left for his conspiracy theories and his belief in the dangers of vaccines when he was making those statements.

HOWEVER.....ALL 50 states mandate vaccines and 48 allow exceptions

Do you expect politicians of any ilk to say it is not the LAW !!!

I expect politicians to be able to explain the value of vaccines, to be somewhat conversant with the science behind the recommendations, to be able to clearly state that there is no relationship of vaccines to autism, and not to try to make everyone happy by saying nothing at all. I do not accept the "I am not a scientist" answer to answers about science when the politician has every reason to know that the issue is important and that science has a well established unilateral position on the matter. I am bewildered by your reply about politicians saying it is not the LAW. No politician has suggested anything about the law in the recent discourse. The question being directed at the potential 2016 candidates is about the wisdom of not vaccinating children. Dr. Paul has admitted he did not follow the recommended vaccine schedule with his own children although he did vaccinate.

I appreciate that Doctor Ben Carson was the only one that had the guts to mention the illegal immigrants coming into the country not being screened properly for this disease.
One of the things I appreciate the most about Dr. Carson is he calls it like he sees it without regards to being PC; however, always in a respectful manner.

Does not matter what you expect !!!

The situation is pretty clear. IT IS A STATE LAW IN 50 STATES THAT YOU MUST GET VACCINATED, AND IN 48 OF THEM THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS.

To change anything, EACH STATE legislature must propose a change or tighten up the law. No many Presidential candidates or Senators get involved in STATE LAW.

I agree with you 100% on this. The more I read and hear about him, the more I'm impressed.

How would Dr Carson suggest we screen illegal immigrants for measles? Is he aware that Measles is not a problem in Central America? In fact as he should know, measles is much more likely to be imported from Asia and Europe. So the fact if your representation is true that Dr Carson chose to mention illegal immigration and measles in the same sentence is not courage but wrong on the facts. I cannot find Carson's words and perhaps you can post a link. The only thing I find is that he said this is not a political issue. If it is not then why did he feel the need to mention immigration, a highly political flashpoint, in his discussion of vaccines?

Dr. Carson suggested there was a possible link - he did not say they were the cause. And you can been tested to determine if you have been vaccinated for measles and many other contagious disease.

The total direct quote...

"“It is a good example of what happens,” the pediatric neurosurgeon replied. “These are things that we had under control. We have to account for the fact that we now have people coming into the country, sometimes undocumented people, who perhaps have diseases that we had under control.”

“So now we need to be doubly vigilant about making sure that we immunize our people to keep them from getting diseases that once were under control,” Carson added."

There are a number of links to this quote and I give you this one...

Now Ben Carson Is Blaming Measles Outbreak on ‘Undocumented People’ | Mediaite

As a great example of how folks like to twist what people say depending on what twist they want to put on it.

Let's first harken back to the very poor handling of the Ebola Crisis and still no Surgeon General to speak out and clarify things...and money wasted on a totally inappropriate "Ebola Czar".

We have in the White House a micro manager and he isn't doing a very good job in too many areas..

Those coming here legally have to have their shots before entering.

There is no requirement whatsoever for those visiting the US only for those permanently immigrating. While the source of the recent measles outbreak is not known it is believed that is was an international visitor to Disneyland.

Sorry but this link indicates immigrants must have proof of vaccinations as part of getting a visa. Your statement does not seem to be supported the Dept Of State. :confused:

Information is available on the CDC website on the side effects and frequency of reactions to the vaccine. The politics of taking or not taking vaccines is not included in the list of side effects.

Sorry but apparently you don't know the difference between an immigrant visa which is given to a person planning to stay here, and a visitors visa which is for a tourist. As I said above, there is no vaccination requirement for visitors.

Health Information for Travelers to United States - Traveler view | Travelers' Health | CDC

read the first sentence of the second paragraph.

Surgeon General Dr Murthy, who President Obama nominated in 2013, was confirmed by the Senate and sworn in with his family looking on in the lame duck session. The Senate held up his confirmation process for the better part of two years.

Ebola Czar Ron Swain did such a good job of controlling Ebola in this country that he was able to retire after only six weeks on the job.

Do you have a resource that backs up the statement, "Is he aware that Measles is not a problem in Central America? In fact as he should know, measles is much more likely to be imported from Asia and Europe."?

Why did he feel the need to bring up screening immigrants? Perhaps because he is a doctor and is familiar with report from the CDC? Read one for yourself - the FAQs page has lots of links to measles related info.

Perhaps your question deserves an answer. While you apparently on the CDC website you should have seen it. When I point it out to you will you admit it makes Dr Carson either look uninformed that he did not know this fact (which I did without looking it up) or if he did know it makes him a demagogue for dragging the issue of people crossing our border into the issue.


"As a result of high vaccination coverage and better measles control in the Americas, in 2000, measles was declared eliminated (no disease transmission for at least 12 months) in the United States. Indigenous measles virus circulation was interrupted in 2002 in the rest of the Western Hemisphere...The largest percentage of importations (46%) was among people who acquired the disease in Europe. However, importations consistently occur from other countries and regions, including India and the Philippines"

Note where it clearly says the Western Hemisphere which includes of course Latin America has been clear for 12 years.
Measles (Rubeola) - Chapter 3 - 2014 Yellow Book | Travelers' Health | CDC

Read the paragraph on epidemiology. Note very clearly

Of course I noted the link you provided. And I noted that the CDC info, unfortunately, does not significantly document material post 2011/2012 - much before the recent influx of the undocumented who have been crossing our borders. Nor have I found any resource to indicate that *only* Central Americans have been crossing those borders. Here is an article that tends to bring the issue closer to current day: Public Schools Face Health Threat from Illegal Aliens

Looks like we will have to wait a bunch more years for a non-hysterical evaluation of the diseases that have been introduced/re-introduced in the U.S. by this recent influx of undocumenteds.

In post 16 above, perhaps posted by guest, a link is included titled

and guest amplified that headline by adding that Dr Carson would be familiar with reports on measles from the CDC.

So now when it is clearly shown that the most recent data from the CDC very clearly to anyone who "is familiar with reports from the CDC" directly contravenes what Dr Carson suggested the response on this forum is to say but but someone else is worried about it too. Why can't you just say your argument about Dr Carson being justified in making a connection between the measles outbreak and bringing undocumented people because of what the CDC says is wrong. The CDC says Dr Carson is wrong about measles and undocumented immigration.

Someone ask a teacher or public school administrator does a child have to been vaccinated against measles to be admitted to a public school? My wife says "yes" (retired teacher). The implication is that regardless of documentation a child could be refused admission to school for lack of proper immunization.

The most recent data from the CDC stops with data from 2011 and 2012. The immigration border blitz did not get hot and heavy until after the CDC data was reported. Seems that the CDC just might not 'contravene' Dr. Carson if he is addressing the latest border breach.

So what data is Dr. Carson using, if the data is from 2011 and 2012?

Ok, I'll bite on your bait. The hot and heavy border blitz? The latest border breach? Are you referring to the children who were mostly coming from small central American countries? They were voluntarily turning themselves in to border agents and were confined to resettlement camps. Were there disease outbreaks of vaccine preventable illnesses in these camps? Was the "border blitz" shown in fact, in reality, in the real world to have imported any illnesses? There has been plenty of time for those reports. The CDC promptly investigates outbreaks of reports of illnesses and certainly these camps were watched. So what exactly are you talking about?

Carson was wrong. If you want to stop the importation of measles, the topic of this thread, then you would need to tighten the rules on visitors from the 1st and 2nd world economies, not the 3rd world. Carson was just being inflammatory and playing to the prejudice of the right wing.

"“Many Unaccompanied Alien Children (UAC) and family units” overwhelming US Border Patrol in the Rio Grande Valley (RGV) of Texas “require treatment for communicable diseases, including respiratory illnesses, tuberculosis, chicken pox and scabies,” stated a Thursday memorandum from Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Inspector General (IG) John Roth to DHS Secretary Jeh Johnson confirming rumors and allegations of transmissible diseases from the flood of illegal aliens who been entering the United States through the RGV border with Mexico. "......"including" = not limited to.
Homeland Security Today: UPDATED - DHS IG Confirms Infectious Diseases Among

and another:
Undocumented Immigrants bringing diseases across border? - ABC15 Arizona

And by Thursday memorandum, you mean August 1, 2014. That is the date on the report.

Why is it in some people's world neither illegal immigrants or terrorists can do wrong? They are always bashing America and taking up for the law breakers. Why don't you focus your energy on the legal citizens of this country that need help and fight for them?

I don

More current that 2011 and 2012, eh?

Having read all the posts in this thread, I have seen NONE that imply illegal immigrants or terrorists can do no wrong, nor have I heard or read of anyone implying that in any venue. The problem with politics and political discourse these days is exaggeration or twisting of the oppositions point of view.

I read the reports you linked regarding children importing communicable illnesses and you have missed the important part of the link so I will provide it for you:

"According to Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Public Affairs Officer Bryan D. Cox, however, "reports of an 80-person tuberculosis and 300-person chicken pox outbreak at the Artesia, New Mexico facility are categorically false. Those stats were not in the Department of Homeland Security Office of Inspector General report ... I can tell you those stats are patently false information."



"In reality," Cox said, only "two people at Artesia have been diagnosed with chicken pox – two. And to my knowledge, we haven’t had any confirmed tuberculosis cases. These cases do not pose a health risk to the local community. "

No measles no ebola no serious illness. If chicken pox is the worst they could find, well we have chicken pox every day in every state.

That's what I've always wondered ... it's pretty much always blame America first or argue against the obvious ... illegal aliens, Islamic terrorists etc. It's like the pitch is ... don't believe your lyin' eyes. I guess it stems from a major case of liberal guilt. In any case it's pathological.

Fact is ... prior to the influx of illegals, we essentially had no measles. Vaccine prevents the spread ... the introduction of the disease requires someone who has it to transmit it. Obama's crew covertly dispatched illegals all over the country and now we have outbreaks all over the country.

But wait ... it CAN'T possibly be that. Blame the rubes in flyover country ... that always works for the lefties. If only we could see an outflow of liberals who so hate this place. I'll chip in to buy them a one way ticket.

Ok Mr. Moderator. We obviously have an Obama fan posting this to make people who don't like him seem pathologically ignorant. No one can be so clueless as to believe that drivel.