TOTV Membership & participation
 

What is the total membership/subscription to TOTV?

What is the highest participation ever achieved?

What was the subject?

Time of year?

I am curious as I still consider myself a recent participant this past year.
What I see is what appears to be a small number of "regulars" mixed with a smattering of infrequent participants.

I find it to be a very energetic group from TV, to funny stuff to politics. I am also impressed with some of the suggested actions/suggestions members make. A good example being Samhas' thread on wind farms.

We all know from experience what is referred to as Paredo's Law.....the old rule of 80-20.
Such as 20% usually do all the work in almost any organization and so on.

It would be encouraging to know if TOTV has the potential to be "lead steering" effect.

Just curious.

BTK

Re: TOTV Membership & participation
 

I never heard of it referred to as 'Paredo's Law,' but I suspect the ratio is more like 95-5....

Re: TOTV Membership & participation
 

Sounds about right 95 - 5. But I still learn a lot about TV and other issues on this board.

I just did some math:

67% of all members have NEVER posted (3464).
Only 9% have 10 or more posts (476).

Relatively sobering numbers.

Re: TOTV Membership & participation
 

Sobering numbers especially when you consider that the population of TV is somewhere close to 70,000 and there are many non-resident members--persons who are interested in TV. I keep wondering why such a small membership while there's such a large potential?

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And therein lies the problem. Now just imagine the total population of voting age in America and the percent that even votes. Of the total that do vote let's use the suggested 95%....that will not contact their representatives or stand and be counted on an issue that affects theirs and their descendants lives.

It also solidifies the ease with which special interest groups and lobbyists get their mandates.
And sadly, it is this very lack of involvement from the constituency that drives/allows the representatives to either do as they see fit, for themselves first or for their party or special interest group or lobbyists.

Imagine the value we would all reap if we could just raise the 5% to 25% (pick a number)....just here on this forum for starters.

I usually get jumped on by somebody (family, friends, TOTV, et al) when I "whine" about the silent majority....I continue to do so because the answer to many of our problems is latent within their indifference.

Maybe we have to hitch hike onto already established groups like AARP or NRA or any other national organization with critical enough mass. But that will no doubt be in conflict with their charters/objectives/etc.

So I guess those of us in the 5% need to continue to hammer away.

BTK

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Even though I am thousands of miles away right now (Budapest, Hungary) I want to weigh in on this topic.

The administrators have spent thousands of dollars on advertising as best as we can. We have done direct mail, printed handouts, word of mouth, speaking at club meetings and so on. We were denied advertising rights with the Villages Media Group. Failing that, we are still attempting to reach our "critical mass" where it is self promoting. There are literally thousands and thousands of people who have never hear of TOTV. We continue to try, every day, to spread the word. If only the newspaper would allow us to purchase an ad, we could broaden our membership. Let's not forget the thousands of "guests" who log on every month, but never join. They return time after time, many of them, but never feel the need to become a member.

When I was hosting talk shows all across America, we had millions of listeners but only hundreds or thousands of callers.

I think this is one of the best sales tools the Villages has at it's disposal. IMHO.

JLK

Re: TOTV Membership & participation
 

Talk host, when I google "The Villages", TOTV is on the first page as:

Talk of the Villages
The September Talk of the Villages Cruise is beginning to fill up. ... Talk of The Villages is the largest residents’ club in The Villages, Florida with ...
www.talkofthevillages.com/ - 54k - Cached - Similar pages

now respectfully, to catch my attention as a newcomer, the first line about a cruise filling up doesn't really catch my attention, it sounds like "fluff". The largest residents club notation is good, but to bring in a newbie, maybe something about learning all about TV for new folks might be a better thing to have.

Just a thought....

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From an outsiders point of view (live in CO) Why don,t you print up a bunch of T shirts with TOTV on them. When the members walk around the squares or meet at crispers or whatever people might be curious enough to ask about the meaning of TOTV. They could say ARE YOU A TOTV'er, or GOT INFO? TOTV.com or whatever. If I had seen one while on my lifestyles tour I would of asked, What is TOTV? but then I'm not bashful. But lots of people are searching for answers to questions just like me. I can't even remember how I found totv but the info here is great. I hate bumper stickers but maybe they would work also. How about stickers for your golf carts, I'M A TOTV'er. Maybe all you guy's who go to all those club meetings could hand out the stickers also. Sorry I'm rambling. Benj

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benj,
I'd prefer a cap!!! :cop:

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As you may know, google reacts to the most frequently visited sites. We have no control whatsoever how we are placed on google. We have used all of the preferred phrases in our setup, but it is up to the people who search with google and where they ultimately land. If we had our way, our forum home page would be the top google search return. That is totally a funtion of the search engine and, sadly, not us.

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Talk Host,
You're on the first page of a google search, but what they're grabbing is the banner page at the top here? see what I mean?:

The Villages, Florida

The September Talk of the Villages Cruise is beginning to fill up. Don't miss out on the fun. Plan to cruise with us to the Bahamas Sept. 22 Through the 26th.
Interior cabins $385.65
Ocean view cabins $445.65
Junior balcony suite $775.65

Re: TOTV Membership & participation
 

I recently purchased the TOTV bumper stickers and as soon as I arrive to TV, I will attach one somewhere on our golf cart. Move over NY Yankee emblems.............


Shirleevee

Re: TOTV Membership & participation
 

Just a suggestion.
How about a TalkOfTheVillages.com laser-cut Window Decal. Kind of like the PriusChat decal?

http://priuschat.com/shop/product_in...products_id/60

At least they would be non-adhesive, and not as damaging as bumper stickers.

Re: TOTV Membership & participation
 

There was a discussion before about why more members do not post but lurk in the background. Do they feel they might come under attack if their views are not the same as the opposition? We are assured that itis OK to post if it is done according to the rules and that there is policy in place that means it's not OK to attack. Does anyone feel it is working? I think people need to feel safe and accepted. Personal attacks are not "friendly" and should be dealt with.

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Meja - To my knowledge the only posters who were 'attacked' were those that were obvious plants. In other words maybe we were talking about the service at a restaurant and someone would say something like "The place is great - give it another try - they have excellent crab fritters deep fried to a golden brown..." This person has an affiliation with the restaurant and it is obvious.

No one should be put down for an opinion. I've posted things and then been corrected by someone with more (stated) knowledge. I would either accept the knowledge (maybe even apologize if my post was somewhat mean spirited) and then move on or just ignore the knowledge knowing that the poster has no clue.

I think that there are many reasons that lurkers exist in the web world of forums but no one should be timid because of fear of reprisal.

Russ

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Mrs JohnN reads but doesn't post.
Part of it is the "attacks", and part of it is just wanting to be private.

To each, his/her own is how I figure it

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Russ,
well, those Oak Forest threads were pretty wild, so I'd disagree about only "plants" being attacked, however for the most part, TOTV is a congenial board

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I think people have lashed out when others were consistently negative about TV. We all made an investment in TV. For someone to constantly tell you how flawed TV is feels like a slap to the face. We are made to feel as though we are lacking in judgement because we bought here. TV is a wonderful place and many of the people that buy here are amazing. The scope of talents displayed by Villagers is something to behold. We also tend to get a little testy in political. It's a shame because at the end of the day, it's doubtful you ( or me , he, she, it or they )will change anyone's mind with your arguments.

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I used to post in political, but have been called names, etc., and so I just won't put myself thru it. I personally wish the administrators would take a stronger hand with those who are abusive to others in the forums. I've seen some people gang up on others and talk openly about them in a negative way, and little is done. No wonder people are afraid to post, they don't want to risk that happening to them. The political forum is gaining a reputation as the type of place you wouldn't want to post because they'll eat you alive and spit you out afterwards.

Sam, also a comment - I understand why people don't like to hear negative things about TV. I too have an investment here, but I think its important that we do voice the truth. After all, everything is not perfect here. There are legitimate complaints, and if people would just voice them maybe the word would get out to the powers that be, and changes would occur. Having just retired from State government, its been my experience that as one person, you can make the phone calls to the appropriate parties and not get results. If enough complaints are aired, the squeaky wheel gets oiled. Just because TV is not perfect doesn't mean we don't enjoy living here and we certainly can make things better. I don't feel like someone is impinging my judgement in buying in TV just because they bring up things that need improvement here.

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Dancer, I'm not saying TV is perfect. We should point out the things that need to be addressed about our community. My head is not in the sand about TV. It bothers me though, when someone whines about/ dislikes everything and seems to be upset that they bought a home here. If you are so unhappy in any place, you should try to go where you will be happier. Life is short..and our lives are shorter yet. Why spend your precious time in a place you despise? Go and be where you are happy.
( Dancer, I don't mean you personally..I mean it collectively)

Hey, how about that rain :bigthumbsup:

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I didn't see any of the Oak Forrest posts so I plead ignorance. I always have (and will) stay out of political. I had one dust up with someone but not enough to have me stop posting (although it came close).

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Russ, yeah bud, I stay out of the political too.... just makes my blood pressure rise and to no purpose

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With one exception I have never even read the Political Forum, let alone posted in it; the one exception was when my wife posted information about the retrofits we did on our home up north to allow for alternative energy use and lessen our dependence on oil. And frankly I don't even consider that a political issue....

Isn't this the truth, BTK! I've had the same experience about indifference on the part of my fellow citizenry; one need only look at the percentages of people who vote to see this. I was raised by European folk who knew from their personal lives what the privilege of voting meant and instilled in us that voting bordered on 'sacred.' I may have been facetious when I suggested in another post that we might get people excited and involved if we could turn off television for 72 hours throughout the U.S.! But seriously, gas went from wherever it started to well over $4/gallon, and other than some complaining, no one is doing anything or even looking at how this came about! Look at the frustration of Travel trying to get people to write to their legislators....

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Lil Dancer, I don't think samhass or anyone else is denying that there are problems in TV that are fixable and need to be addressed. However, I too feel that when individual members of TOTV have nothing but negative things to say about TV, over and over and over and over again..., we need to look at those comments from where they're coming primarily and then maybe secondarily look at the content. Sadly there are people who see things only in the negative, and it's up to the rest of us to either buy into that nonstop negativity (kind of like giving people free rent in our heads) or choose to ignore it. Ignoring it is healthier for us....

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Talk Host, you sound defensive. No one is accusing the administrators of TOTV for not doing everything to get new members. JohnN makes a good point about the first thing that comes up on a Google search being the first item on the TOTV website (at this point the cruise that may have limited appeal/interest in the greater scheme of things). Maybe the first thing should be something that points specifically to the forums or the description of what TOTV is all about. IMHO....

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I agree that no one likes to read total negativity, myself included. I gues I hadn't seen anyone that was that bad, although I did see people gang up on one person as though they were, but in my opinion, was unjustified. In any event, I don't think any one of us has the right to be so judgemental. In fact I saw members of TOTV gang up on a person in a manner that to my mind was cruel and completely unjustified, and I was shocked that the administrators had to be prodded into taking any action. To be honest, I think a lot of this comes from people becoming acquainted through computer posting and not meeting in person. I think various persons are disliked or thought poorly of simply because there are misconceptions and communication problems. That's why I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt. If after awhile, I decide they are negative, or not my "cup of tea", I just avoid them or don't respond to their posts. That's one reason I'm not in political much anymore. But I would never revile them publicly in a forum such as this. I personally think that is just mean.

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Thanks for clarifying, Lil Dancer. When I read your earlier post, it sounded like you were comfortable with people described by samhass as consistently negative--and that would be fine since you can make that personal choice for yourself. Addressing issues is one thing and is certainly worthwhile; I understand giving the benefit of the doubt, but my inclination is simply to ignore those individuals whose posts are negative over and over and over and over again.... That's not being judgmental of them; that's taking care of oneself!

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From what I have seen, the management of TV has done a terrific job. Wait for what the bureaucracy is going to do when the owners take control of the management. It is going to be caos and much more expensive than what it's now.

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Russ I didn't mean the restaurant comments. They seemed very mild and fair compared to what I've seen done to individuals! Sam we've discussed this and you know how I feel about it. Attacks don't seem to help any situation. It doesn't bring people together. Communication skills sometimes are a part of the problem. It's sort of an attack and defend pattern. I'll try to illustrate when I have more time to present it. A good word about Political. I haven't been there lately but some of the guys did a good job agreeing to disagree. They are ahead of the ladies on this sometimes. Lil Dancer - :agree: Others, weigh in? Is it every alright to humiliate someone else because we are angry? We've probably all been guilty of this at some time and it may have felt good at the time but we really didn't feel good about ourselves in the end.

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Of course it is never fair, kind, or even productive to humiliate others!!! What purpose does that serve, except negativism? Does it make the attacker feel good about themselves? That is a scary thought. As a guest I have observed attacks on people that frankly made me decide not to get involved and post, yet this is a question I wanted to reply to. Take the high road people, everyone will be happier.

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Could you please explain what you mean? I'm not sure I understand. Thanks!

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I see a common thread here....being attacked and negativity

Could it be that when our opinion is challenged it is regarded as negative? Stop and think about that. We are happy as can be when all agree with us...but....when others disagree....watch out! We refuse to respect their opinions although they are opposite of oiurs. WE WANT EVERYONE TO AGREE WITH US!

Negativity results when we choose to debate our feelings vs. someone else's feelings that are opposed to ours. When the debate results in a stalmate, then we use harsh words in our defense. It's a two way street. And...it's human nature to protect ourselves.

Some people have opinions that are not with the majority. I don't understand why they feel the need to push the envelope when they know they are in the minority and when others have advised them to back off. Then they go whining and crying and pm-ing everyone to rally behind them when they receive negative posts.

If you can't stand the heat, then get out of the fire....or shut your mouth!

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Tell us how you really feel Bright! LOL :joke:

But, I agree. Someone might post something negative about The Villages, the developer or whatever. You read one, let it go by, read another, let it go by and then another and another and finally when you disagree or give your perspective, they just can't take it.

I can never understand why some people, when disagreed with, think they're being personally attacked. I find it to be a strange phenomenon. Even in political. I honestly never feel that way. I feel people get emotional (I know I do) and might disagree in a strong way, but I really don't take it personally. I've never lost one moment's sleep or cried or whined about being disagreed with.

And again, just my opinion, but the term "gang up" is silly because all it really means is that more than one person disagreed with the poster.

It is my honest belief that the way people handle opposition speaks volumes about a person's character. And people that are afraid to post -- afraid! -- baffle me completely.

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Bright I see it as more of an attack and defend system of communication leading to a downward spiral. Have any personal attacks even happened seems to be in doubt by some and not by others. If it is mean spirited and directed at an individual I recognize it as a personal attack. If that is someone's idea of good clean fun, that is their choice. If several people seem to be directing negative comments toward one, or more individual over and over again it doesn't look good and it doesn't look friendly. How does it make that person feel? Or those who are reading along just trying to get a feel for the community and for TOTV? If it is demeaning to an individual is it not a personal attack?

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Exactly. I've read some of the negative comments towards one poster, and believe me, they were negative, and even though I've never met any of you personally, I was very uncomfortable. I felt that if those people really wanted to vent at that poster they should have done it privately. As far as the person wanting to keep posting their opinion even though it may be in the "perceived" minority, that's the point. The poster is hoping he or she is not in the minority, and is looking for support from the many members that don't regularly post,to show that yes, other people agree with me. Its probably just human nature, as Bright says, to have everyone agree with you.

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I believe that people either or born with or develop a certain personality that either feels uncomfortable with or invites confrontations. I think that some have a cycle of parry and thrust and then run. You can easily see it in small children who when you are on the phone say, Mommy, Mommy and then cry and then push a vase off or throw something or do something negative. That is quite normal but some people carry the need to push the envelope and get "peoples goat" well into adult hood. Most of us know when to stop and walk away. Some people don't.

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Chelsea while I cannot comment on why someone would be "afraid" to post, you can find a very good example of why someone would choose not to post here just by reading the last line of Brightspot's last post. "shut your mouth" ????????? Oh that is classy. I doubt many people would feel welcome after reading that comment. It seems evident to me that many would be offended by such words. While I am not afraid, I do choose not to post here again since this kind of post does not promote the open minded exchange of ideas I was looking for. Although with a little more common courtesy and less tolerance of posts without it, it could be a great one.

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Once again the old 80-20 is kicking in.
The news we watch every day consistently dwells on the negative.
TV residents if given a chance to redo their decision to come here....I venture to say 90+% would do so, but as is the usual, the not so popular aspects get the attention. And the very, VERY small % that just plain don't like it here, will not like it any where.

Another aspect of posting is that many are aggressive in their approach as they feel safe to do so in a sort of protected environment...like having to deal with the key board VS looking in the eyes of the opposition. Most will be very different in person....for the most part that is human nature....then there are those like me....what you see and hear is what you get...good, bad, right or wrong.
I much prefer to deal with those who stand up for what they believe...then an appreciation is had for a given position. The propensity to be right or agreed with is also natural. How ever over time, when one communicates, regularly, it becomes very easy...actually second nature....to let pass or even ignore that which doesn't deserve too much thought.....

TV is a great place to live....the majority backs it up.
TOTV is a great forum.....the minority (participants) in this case back it up.....the majority would to if they were so inclined.

I personally don't spend too much time on minority (not race!!!) reports. Although I did learn a long time ago to not dismiss one who disagrees as there are times when they are the only one right in the room!!!!

Doncha just love the active post subjects?!?!?!

BTK

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BTK said "Although I did learn a long time ago to not dismiss one who disagrees as there are times when they are the only one right in the room!!!!"

Well said!! Without dissent, we become stale and possibly wrong.

As for Bright's comment "Shut your mouth", you have to know Bright. In person you would know she was being sassy and funny. This is a woman that would far rather hug you than be rude to you. She is generous, funny and kind. We all tease each other so much. I can see her throwing her hip out and perching a hand on it and saucily saying "Girl, shut your mouth" to me in reply to something I had said to her.

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That's what I meant when I said we have communication problems because people are not meeting face to face. Things easily get distorted way out of proportion, including, I'm sure, things that one poster said that everyone got riled up about as being negative. And I like BTK's comment about those who disagree may be the only ones right in the room. I'm just asking everyone to be a little more open minded and accepting of people, even if they aren't necessarily "happpy, and gay, and rah, rah, rah,the Villages", etc. I think there is a place for everyone in these forums.