Interesting take on The Villages
 

The Villages, Florida.

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/sec...dontcount=true

This is rather heavy reading but has some interesting stuff in it. :o :read:

Checked link March 14, 2009.

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

Heavy? I think I just earned some college credits by finishing this piece :joke:

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

I need a beer. :o ;D

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

With Leisureville, TOTV, the Villages Daily Sun, this linked article, and other stuff they could probably create a college course on TV.

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

Hmmm...talk about a negative slant. :o

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

Definitely food for thought. I do believe there are some valid points in the article but the author seemed to fixate on the negative to the point that the whole article became irrelevant.

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

This is an amazing article, and,like other posts have said, almost worthy of being the basis for a college course. Heavy reading for sure . Thanks Tal for the link.

I am afraid I do not agree with the conclusions and the negative assessment of TV.

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

I gave up after trying to read the first paragraph.

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

I do speed reading and it still made me crossed eyed before I got to the end. Thanks anyway for the link. Knew most of the stuff but still interesting---I think ???

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

Interesting read. Seems to have taken more issue with the false history of the area "documented" by the developer than anything else though. Seemed more pointless than negative to me. Unless someone found offensive the fact that the buildings in SS are not historically accurate, or that Silencio Sanchez didn't exist, I'm not sure what the article's point was. It accurately describes a successful development with some hype about it being a "hometown" (and one could argue that where one lives is by definition "hometown"), some colorful faux historical markers, golf cart access to give people a sense of being on permanent vacation, and "consuming" (which I guess is a negative way of saying eating out, shopping and going to the movies). Well, I kind of like all that stuff.
Thanks for posting the article Tal.

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

I thought this was really interesting.

"While CDDs are technically a form of local government, officials working for them are exempt from traditional rules meant to minimize conflict of interest by the Florida Statute governing CDDs (F.S. 190). This gives wide latitude for questionable Board behaviour since the boards are initially controlled by individuals appointed by the developer. In the case of The Villages, appearances of potential conflicts of interest have been frequent. The creation of the initial Villages CDDs was endorsed by Sumter County in 1992 following review and recommendation of the county's attorney Randall Thornton. Immediately following the County's support of the CDD, Thornton was also hired by the newly created Villages CDD, earning him over $US200,000 for his work for The Villages while simultaneously earning a $US90,000 annual salary for his work with the county (Sargent & Campbell 2000)."
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/sec...tart=768593209


Checked link August 27, 2008.

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

I need a nap after reading this . . . . .z z z z z z z z

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

I actually got a bit of a kick out of this. This article, like a lot of Leisureville, seems to be focusing on the idea that the authors believ that most of the people in TV are having the wool pulled over their eyes by the development company. From what I can determine from reading on these boards and in other media, most of the TV residents are not having the wool pulled over their eyes, but rather embracing the presented show. This is rather like people who go to Disney and get into the spirit of the thing and enjoy the ride without focusing on the "hey - thats not a person, its a realistic looking robot" aspect of the attraction. The difference is that the TV residents have made a life out of the concept - just like the Disney guests who wish they never had to go back home after the vacation time is up. Everyone knows there is no long-established history to the place, but no one is there for the historical accuracy, so why portray the attempt to add color and interest as some sort of sinister plot hide the fact that the developers are making money on the deal. As long as everyone is happy with the way things are going, why make an issue out of it?

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

My sentiments exactly, and part of what I was trying to say. You've summed it up well.

:bigthumbsup:

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

Except for the Mr. Midnight and other tales of characters in TV, it seems like this article by Hugh Bartling has the same meat of the arguments made by the author of Leisureville Andrew Blechman in his book.

Blechman seems to be a better writer though than Bartling. Bartling's article is in academic speak.

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

Read the second page of the article very very slowly and over and over. We are paying and will pay oh so much in the future. I hope everyone has lots of money. Our "vacation" will soon become very expensive. What has been written in the article is not opinion but how the government has worked. Florida Home Town Democracy is a step to have a say in our future.


[Bold text changed to normal face by Tony]

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

Taltarzar,

I commend you for your knowledge and understanding. Most people had not a clue what the article said and oh so sad they could not care less. As I said I hope they have deep pockets deeper than mine.



[Bold text changed to normal face by Tony]

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

Fact Historical Background – The POA was formed in 1975 as an independent homeowners’ organization representing the residents in the early days of The Villages. The POA at that time had almost all residents as members and a good working relationship with the developer, Mr. Harold Schwartz.

However, the POA and Mr. Schwartz had a falling out over the issue of promises made to residents as inducements to buy houses in the Villages. The developer reneged on the promises in the late 1980s and tried to charge residents for amenities that had originally been promised for free.

The POA organized a legal challenge to the developer’s decision. The result was a settlement that allowed those early residents to continue receiving the promised amenities.

A further result was that Mr. Schwartz and the developer’s organization cut all ties with the POA, advised new residents to avoid membership in the POA, and eventually formed the VHA in 1991 as an alternative to the POA. The developer also started a policy of refusing to meet with the POA on any subject.

The developer helped establish the VHA as an alternate to the POA on the explicit understanding that the VHA would not confront the developer with any complaints of Villagers. The developer did not want another pro-active, pro-resident owners’ association comparable to what the POA was at the time.

Essential Differences – To summarize the key differences: the POA is an independent organization that represents Residents’ Rights; the VHA is a developer-sponsored organization that avoids any issue that might be adverse to the interests of the developer, even if issues of Residents’ Rights are involved.

The VHA position goes against the very idea of what a homeowners’ organization should be – that the Rights of Residents should be the primary objective of a homeowners’ organization rather than the rights or best interests of the developer.

Some examples over the years of the VHA avoidance of Residents’ Rights issues and opposition to the POA and its positions are:

The VHA did not support the POA call for a moratorium on VCCDD purchases of various assets from the developer at inflated prices.

The VHA did not support the POA call for popular election of the District Administrator in an effort to make that individual more responsive to the needs and interests of residents.

The VHA did not support the POA call for resignation of VCCDD supervisors with potential conflict-of-interests ties to the developer.

The VHA did not support the POA call for election of central district supervisors by all residents in The Villages.

The VHA did not support the POA call for the right of residents to approve the purchase of new facilities and the related assumption of the debt repayment obligation by residents.

The VHA did not support the POA call for use of the comparable properties appraisal techniques, rather than the income-approach appraisal technique (which inflates prices), for purchases of facilities from the developer.

The VHA said nothing about the series of articles in the Orlando Sentinel in October, 2000, that documented abuses of the Chapter 190 law that created the Community Development Districts. Many of the examples were based on the situation in The Villages. The POA featured these articles in the Bulletin (see the August, 2003, issue of the Bulletin in the Bulletin archives section of the POA web site).

The VHA did not support the POA in its call for defeat of the Sumter County Hospital Tax proposal.

The VHA did not support the POA in its call for defeat of the One Sumter proposal that increases the political influence of the developer in Sumter County politics. The VHA actually supported the proposal.

Conclusion – It looks like the VHA ignores any Residents’ Rights issue that it thinks might offend the developer or go counter to the developer’s interests. And, Residents’ Rights are often ignored as a result of this VHA support for the developer.

The question for you, the Village resident reading this article, is whether you want to belong to an organization that represents your rights (POA) ... or whether you want to belong to an organization that ignores your rights and best interests in an effort to coddle up to the developer (VHA).

The POA general membership meeting is held on the third Wednesday of each month in the Ricardo Montalba


[Bold text changed to normal face by Tony]

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

Wow somebody has an axe to grind,yikes. :dontknow: ::)

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

LK:

Using bold print is hard on the eyes and considered a no-no on the internet.

Your comments are very interesting but the dark print is distracting.

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

LK - From an outsider's POV you make it awful difficult for us to even consider joining the POA when we get there.

Way too pushy for my tastes and lay off the bold print.

It is hard to take someone's opinion seriously when all they do is preach! Let's have a discussion without all the Nostradamus predictions (never mind I'm probably too slow to have a clue anyway).

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

When I read Leisureville and this, I can only think, sour grapes. These poor folks are too young to retire here . I am not happy with people who think that we are having the wool pulled over our eyes or with people that say DOOM. Of course there is a risk. Having a baby is a risk. Falling in love is a risk. Buying here is one too, but I think that there are lots of people who have had lots of experience and have lots of wisdom who have bought here. We aren't a bunch of dumb doras. I have lived on two golf courses that have sold and were built on. Surprise, Surprise, We didn't lose money on our house when it sold on those golf courses. These houses have a pretty fair price and about 20 grand attached to them for the bond. I expect to live another 20 years and I expect my heirs to get the asking price for what we paid. End of story. If they should depreciate 20 percent, still, end of story. What is the USE of all this drama?

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

I got a kick out of the article, as it tried to make serious work out of whimsy.

Since I first moved to CentFL in the early 80's I've watched TV grow. We used to laugh at it as "Old Peoples 'Ville" when I was much younger, and it's amazing how a little more grey hair can change one's attitude.

The fictional history is everywhere in FL. For a glimpse of REAL money trying to be made out of it, take a drive down to Disney"s "town" called Celebration. That place in itself is a Marketing 201 course!

Prof. Bartling's view on Sumter County as a victim amuses me greatly. Sure, the county is currently not making a great deal on sales tax revenue, but that should change drastically once Brownwood opens. The loss of gas tax revenue is the same story - development along Rt 466a will take market advantage in due time. In addition, the county does pretty well on real property tax, considering there is no discount for not having to provide school services (buildings, teachers, buses, etc.) because of the TV covenants. TV has its own fire department and Sumter County (my guess) is only tied to provide mutual aid support on TV property. So, other than an occasional sheriff's patrol (including speed traps on Morse and Buena Vista), county services versus revenue received sure looks like a winner to the county from my viewpoint.

Will the costs for TV eventually go up? It's a fair bet they will. However, the developer has a long-term vested interest to keep TV as pristine as possible: 1) the developer controls most of the resale market which will always be robust due to natural occurrences; 2) the developer rents the retail property in the same way as a mall owner does, and doesn't want that to go downhill; and 3) business is business, and few businessfolk intentionally screw up a good long-term thing.

Prof. Bartling slighted this part of CentFL as being less-than-desirable, and I take great exception to that. I don't give two hoots about Disney and the rest of themepark-world. The natural beauty of Crystal River, the Ocala forest, and the proximity to the Atlantic coast is worth more to me than the experience of standing in a one-hour line for a 90-second overpriced thrill ride.

If the good Professor is more inclined toward traffic jams along Lake Shore Drive, watching the Cubs lose, and having his arteries clogged with deep-dish pizza, (no offense intended to Chicagoans with the good sense to be in TV!) than watching manatee glide down the St. John's River, watching osprey hunt in the Crystal River basin, or to experience the Atlantic Ocean in all its majesty while strolling along New Smyrna Beach - his choice.

TV and CentFL - what a beautiful combination!

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

SteveZ, I take great exception to your slant on Chicago. I'm from Chicago and it's one of the most beautiful cities in the country. To reduce it to your description is a shame on you.

I do agree with the beauty of central Florida. Before checking it out and moving here, you really don't hear much about it in the rest of the country. I think it's spectacular. The rolling green hills and sunsets are breathtaking.

I'm lucky to have had the best of both worlds. The best in the country. :#1:

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

NOW Chels! I have to say that you are wrong for the first time. It is CINCINNATI and TV. ;D :bigthumbsup:

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

This author is so in love with himself that he is incapable of seeing the forest for the trees. He uses as many big words as possible to make the article as esoteric as possible. I bet he sleeps with Webster under his pillow every night.

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

You are right on the money.
I have waited a long time to use the term "pedant". The time has arrived. The prof is a perfect example of a pedant.
BTW, am I being pedantic by using the term?

DC

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

RE: POA

I don't see any "axe to grind" here. If all of you passive people want to pay for the repair of all the sinkholes on the developer's property, watch your vinyl siding fall off, pay exorbitant prices for rec. centers and watch your taxes and amenity fees sky rocket, then be my guest. I'm glad Joe Gorman and others see these unfair schemes and practices and publicizes them in the interest of property owner's rights. If you had a big problem, you'd want someone to see your side too.

LadyKathleen has her facts straight. There needs to be two sides to the coin.

Skip

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

Hi Skip and thank you.

Our country is in the condition it is because of jest on serious issues and enormous lack of interest. Better heads will prevail. It is reassuring to know that those who count don't sit around mocking what they have no comprehension of.

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

Hey, you know what they say "Love it or Leave it!" ;)

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

I am not sure how the POA got in here but seeing as it did I will add my two cents worth.
We need the POA. Someone must hold others accountable. It doesn't take a PhD in world history to figure that out.

DC

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

Not self-love but typical academia (IMHO). If you want tenure you gotta publish, and if you're gonna get published then you gotta conform to the "style" of your field. And the style in most fields requires at least 5 paragraphs out of every 7 require at minimum 2 re-readings. the only other option is to opt out and after working for a PhD, not too many do that.

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

I'm not saying that TV doesn't need the POA or the VHA.

I'm just saying to discuss it and stop the preaching.

There will be issues and we'll have to deal with them but no more POA vs. VHA please.

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

I know how it got in here. In oh-so-typical TOTV fashion, the thread was high-jacked.
It's really hard to find a single thread that stays on topic. Not many have any sense of "net-iquette" I think it's called. Wanna talk about the POA, start a new Topic!

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

I certainly do not mean the following as a personal attack and apologize in advance to anyone who takes it as such. However, does anyone else feel that the fair Lady Kate thinks herself just a wee bit superior to we mere mortals?

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

Muncle, surely you jest?

BTW - whose participle is dangling :joke:

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

Ok, I just read the entire piece. There isn't anything there that is incorrect. I found it interesting actually. I don't see where this man is either "in love with himself" or using "big words" to impress. This is what the man does for a living and from all accounts is quite successful.

So.... while the piece was long and tedious at times, what's the big deal? Some of the posts here I felt were more defensive and for what reason I guess I don't understand.

Relax, you live here, you love it. Smile. Move on.

Thanks Tal for the original post.

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

I think the defense was triggered, not by the article, but by the repeated negativity from some posters. It gets so difficult to relax and enjoy when we hear we are needing to fight, fight, fight, the developer. My shingles are on my house and look like they will stay awhile and my local pool is filled with clean water. I am not a fighter. I am a villager.

Re: Interesting take on The Villages
 

The bit about paying $50million for an $8million golf course caught my attention. Can someone tell me where I can find out more information on this?

Thanks