Softball and Multi-Modal Paths
 

You are saying to youirself, "what the heck is this about'? I noticed in today's DS that the AAC is spending $525K to upgrade softball diamonds. How many Villagers will this benefit? 200 or 300 softbal players? Personally, I am "OK" with the upgrades.

But what surprises me is the people who are so adamant against spending ANY money to to stripe the cart paths which would improve safety for everyone in The Villages have not said a peep about the softball diamonds. Makes me wonder where their priorities lay?

Just wondering.....

Actually, there are between 200 and 300 TEAMS depending on the season, and there are 3 seasons per year. So there are thousands of players, and probably another couple thousand people who come to watch games over the course of a season. Plus umpires, scorers, evaluation staff, etc. And finally the tournaments which draw people to The Villages. I recall last year the Canseco brothers brought their team to a tournament.

All amenities need maintenance. They just don't all make the front page. And much of the softball maintenance was for safety purposes.

As far as the striping goes, it wasn't even recommended by the engineer who did the study so who can say they would be any safer.


:D

Again, don't get me wrong. I am ok with the expendure for the softball diamonds. I would like to see the engineering study for the diamonds.... Opps, there wasn't one. The AAC when ahead and did the right thing and approved the upgrades.

The AAC is involved with the area north of 466.

You are probably right. It really doesn't require an engineer to tell you if someone runs into a broken fence they can and likely will suffer injury. Or if the grass ins't watered it will likely die off, and if water doesn't drain properly people might fall and get hurt. Or if the turf is bad they can incur knee injuries, torn hamstrings, and on and on.

As for the stripes, the study WAS done and the engineer did not recommend proceeding as there is no proof they will help anything.

It is actually about 2000-3000 softball players.

Absolutely right. I for one don't much give a crap for a bunch of old farts who think they are still kids and play softball. The Softball field improvements are a total waste of money that could be much better spent on making our cart paths safer for all the 100,000 + residents, myself included.

And debates like this are the reason I am so glad that the Developer is still in charge of the area where I live. So far they have made not perfect perhaps, but very reasonable decisions and have given us NOT ALL our choices but varied choices for enjoyable amenities. I don't play softball but many, many, many play and enjoy it mightily and it was here when I arrived and I hope that it will continue and that the areas will be maintained for an enjoyable experience for all involved.


I have witnessed money spent on foolishness sanctioned by well meaning homeowners associations run by inexperienced homeowners in the past.. The striping of the cart paths is a judgment call and many are passionate about it. I don't think it would change much but people that I respect think differently. If we all saw things the same way, they would only sell vanilla ice cream.

Presumably you also have issues with the 30+ executive courses, and the pickle ball courts, and the tennis courts, and the pools, and the bocce courts, and the cornhole courts, and the shuffleboard courts, and the billiard rooms, and the air rifle ranges, etc. Nobody uses all the facilities but we all pay to support them.

How can you not respect someone you don't even know?

If you mean why do I respect the developers who I don't know, because time after time after time after time, I have witnessed good decisions that they have made. If you mean people who post on here, I have a splinter skill of remembering what people type. I agree with some people almost all of the time and have learned to respect the way they make decisions.


And of course the opposite is true.

The engineering study did not support the need for striping the MMPs. What is so difficult to understand about that? Hence, there is no need to waste $300k.

I don't play softball either but I know many who do. Instead I waste my time on golf courses chasing a little ball around. Perhaps the PWAC would like to waste some additional money funding the unnecessary striping of golf cart paths. But first we can spend some money on an engineering study. That's the ticket!

Wow! Good for you!

As far as I know, all the softball field improvements at Buffalo Glen and Saddlebrook have been completed. I think they are still working on Knudsen Field, but that location is for level 5 teams only and usually those teams have players with disabilities. I guess if you don't play softball or have a disability, your response would be, then why the heck should we waste our money on those people?

Just the other day I was sitting in a dentist office reading a retirement magazine and in their letter section someone wrote, I play softball here in Boston and I'm looking to retire in Florida, are there any retirement communities with softball leagues?

The problem as I see it is not just the expense of striping the MULTI-MODAL PATHS but also the fact that many people are now calling these golf cart paths. Once all these lines are painted, golf cart drivers will be further inclined to consider these as their highways. The engineers who recommended not to stripe the paths mentioned this in their report. They also said that striping will not increase safety. Walkers, joggers, and bicyclists will be pushed to second class users and their safety will be jeopardized. It is becoming evident that more people are beginning to see these paths as golf cart only paths. An expense, not recommended by experts, is not a good use of our money. Leave the softball players alone. Don't bring an important expense that is needed to justify an expense that appears to have a lot of emotion but very little rational basis as evidenced by the expert engineers negative report. Unfortunately many people never let facts interfere with their emotions.

We agree completely. My comment about striping cart paths on the golf courses was just slightly tongue in cheek. Besides I leave a trail of breadcrumbs when I play golf so I can find my way back to the starter's shack.

OH oh why does the tone of this post sound familiar?

What a terrible thing to say. I think it's wonderful so many guys are still in shape to play softball. Softball and pickleball are the most active and popular sports here. Thousands play softball and keeping up the softball fields is as important as keeping up the pickleball courts. I'd say maybe the old farts are golfing but I wouldn't be that rude! It's great to be active in whatever sport you choose! And some of those softball players still look pretty darn good!!

Softball and Multi-Modal Paths
 

Nicely done Hula.

But a bunch of old farts doing whatever you like to do is OK?
(I had to go back...this one has a familiar ring to it as well.)

Interesting judgement about people and opinion on improvements.

Just what sort of things do you give a crap about besides wasting Villagers money on striping that the engineer's report did not recommend?

Happydaz - You are spot on! The Villages is dealing with multi-modal paths and NOT glof cart paths! Golf cart drivers who cannot navigate a multi-modal path or who choose to push the limits when using said path should STAY OFF of them! Accepting that these are multi-modal paths and NOT golf cart only paths just doesn't seem to fit in with their agenda.

That's never gonna happen, the same way it doesn't happen on the public streets and highways, which are nonetheless upgraded constantly for safety's sake.

I wish people would stop blaming lack of visibility on the MMPs on poor drivers. And telling them when and when not they should drive. Not all accidents are caused by poor drivers.

Besides, people were for this until they found out it would cast them maybe $3 a year for the rest of their lives. Now the hue and cry that it's not needed. Did they think it was going to be free?

I can harly wait until the repair of the foundation of the Morse Blvd bridge over Lake Sumter comes up again.... Maybe the cost of striping can be tied in with this cost. ��

If the engineer's report indicated that safety would not be significantly improved with striping - what else but following the guidelines and better attention to driving will bring about greater safety?

The engineer's report was more skewed toward keeping the MMPs from being considered by the golf cart drivers as exclusively their own than it was geared toward increasing safety and visibility at night. These reports are about as good as expert witnesses--you have yours and I have mine.

As you say, we each have our opinions. But skewed? Perhaps that is also personal opinion.

I have read the engineering report. It states roughly that based on current standards, the marking of the MMPs are not warranted. In other words, there are not governmental requirements for marking the paths. Also base on accident data, in their opinion there is no evidence that striping would make the paths safer. The key words are "based on accident data". What the report does not say is they drove the paths at night to personally observe the driving conditions. They did not conduct any traffic or volume study on the paths. They did not take into account the serpentine and undulations of the paths to study the effect that these conditions have on driving and night time visibility. They looked a two data points. Hell yes, based on these two data points we would all probably come to the same conclusion. But is this "real world"? Nope... If you want a complete picture of the safety of the paths some type of traffic study needs to be completed. I am not seeing where this was preformed.

That's what I meant when I called the engineering study "skewed." They looked at as little as they had could. It's almost like they had an opinion to begin with and were looking only to uphold that opinion. Who called for this study originally? And what does anybody know about this particular firm--what there area of expertise is, etc.

Were they the same people who suggested the layout of Colony Blvd and the golf cart path intersection?

People move to The Villages for a variety of reasons which also include recreation....all amenities require maintenance (including softball fields for old farts). Monies need to be set aside to provide for each depending on the maintenance schedule to keep all in tip-top shape. By the way....not everyone owns a golf cart!!!

I don't know about you, but I do respect and APPRECIATE the improvements in The Villages, and also appreciate the Villagers who play softball. The game of softball here is very, very popular!!!! I'm sure you have some sort of sport or activity that you like, which is taken care of by The Villages. I myself, play golf, and I appreciate all the improvements done to all the exectuve courses, (by the way, they are played for free) and I definetly like the championship courses, and the care they give them. Hats off to the Developers, and the CCD's that make decisions, that benefit all of us

Ouch! Probably right on target.

I'm sure that these assumptions are off but I think this is a legitimate way of looking at it. . .

300 teams x 12 players a team = 3600 players
$525,000 / 3600 players = $145 per player

So if you take just one month of each softball player's amenities fees and put it towards the complex and don't take a penny from anybody else's amenities fees to support it - the complex is fully paid for.

Sounds fair to me. I'm sure most softball players would be willing to pay two months worth of amenities fees towards the complex. That being so, IMO the district should go back and decide to put one month of amenities fees ($500k) towards renovations and upgrades every 5-7 years.

I'm not a really old fart yet but I respect the really, really, old farts that still play softball as I have no intention of doing it. I'm happy doing water activities and golf. I did enough damage to my body during my working years. I can no longer do it and that what sometimes really hurts.

The cost of striping the paths is really a pittance. It is obvious that the study concluded that statistical analysis showed that - despite our feelings - the multi modal paths are safe and striping would not make them significantly safer - if safer at all. (I've never seen an accident in an area where striping would be done.) In any case, cost was not the reason for not doing this.

Finally, with respect to dog parks. I don't care for dogs much. But I think dog lovers have a legitimate request for dedicating one month of dog owners amenities fees towards creating a few more dog parks. The problem is - most of the land has been turned into housing. I was shocked when I saw that there wasn't more green space reserved for these types of things in the south. Just shocked.

I am constantly amazed when a group hires subject matter experts to study and report on those things the group needs expert opinions on, and when the SMEs give their reports, the hiring group ignores the experts' opinion.
Pretty stupid.

Do you know if the engineer that conducted this study is in fact a SME in this particular subject?

Dedicating fees
 

You might get even more people if you were to poll it and let those that enjoy watching the games count.

I am SO glad that the people who have been managing the monies where I live STILL manage the monies where I live.


Someone asked in another debate on the restored trees....WHERE DID THEY GET THE MONEY TO DO THAT? When I replied that I was sure that there was money for unexpected things budgeted and that we wouldn't be personally charged...., He replied We don't need a slush fund. The idea of being self insured and budgeted for maintenance is new to some, as well as living inside our income.


We just can't have everything we want. And we can't have everything they want, or she wants, or he wants, and still run in the black. Prices will have to go up somewhere.

OH PLEASE DEVELOPERS, continue to run this place as you have. I so respect your good judgment.