Talk of The Villages Florida
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-   The Villages, Florida, Political talk (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/)
-   -   Citizens or Not? (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/citizens-not-159882/)

Guest 08-18-2015 12:31 PM
Citizens or Not?
 
Donald Trump's (actually written by Jeff Sessions) immigration plan says that children born to undocumented immigrants in the US are not US citizens.

Doesn't Article I of the 14th Amendment of the Constitution say they are citizens?

This would be challenged quickly and the Supreme Court would likely render a swift ruling. How would that ruling go?

Guest 08-18-2015 12:36 PM
They'd tell Sessions YOU'RE FIRED and Trump will change the subject.

Guest 08-18-2015 01:18 PM
People born in the United States are citizens. What Trump suggests is that since parents of such children will be deported then it follows they will not want to break up their families; albeit it is possible illegal parents can leave their kids with relatives who came here legally.

However this entire discussion is futile because it will never come to pass. heck politicians can't even seem to agree to terms on securing the border.

Personal Best Regards:

Guest 08-18-2015 02:01 PM
If Trump's plan had been in place, neither Jindal, Rubio, Cruz or Santorum would be US citizens.

Guest 08-18-2015 02:09 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1101413)
People born in the United States are citizens. What Trump suggests is that since parents of such children will be deported then it follows they will not want to break up their families; albeit it is possible illegal parents can leave their kids with relatives who came here legally.:

No, you are wrong. Read Trump's immigration plan and it specifically states that birthright citizenship will be stopped.

Wouldn't that take a constitutional amendment to achieve?

Guest 08-18-2015 02:41 PM
My guess is that the Supreme Court decision would be 8-1 saying the 14th Amendment guarantees citizenship to anyone born in the USA regardless of the legal status of the parents.

The one dissent vote would probably be Clarence Thomas.

Guest 08-18-2015 02:51 PM
Not all people born in the US are automatically US citizens. there are exceptions to the 14th.

Guest 08-18-2015 03:29 PM
How does Trump's plan help with the Hispanic vote? Most experts say in order for the GOP to win in 2016, they must get 40% of that vote. George Bush got 40%, McCain got 30% and Romney got 25%. Anyone see a pattern developing here?

Guest 08-18-2015 03:44 PM
Since Trump considers President Obama to be an "illegal" since he was not born in the USA, would his immigration plan also require the President to leave the country?

Guest 08-18-2015 03:51 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1101476)
Since Trump considers President Obama to be an "illegal" since he was not born in the USA, would his immigration plan also require the President to leave the country?
Lot a good that would do us now. The horses are already out of the barn. Closing the door doesn't do any good. How much damage can Obama do once he leaves office? I mean, the only thing he is qualified for is hosting SNL. He is a comedian after all. No one takes him seriously even now.

Guest 08-18-2015 03:51 PM
The exceptions to the 14th amendment are children born to foreign diplomats or hostile forces are not automatically U.S. citizens. It would take another amendment to rescind the 14th amendment.

Frequently Asked Questions: Defending Citizenship Under the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution | American Civil Liberties Union

Guest 08-18-2015 05:29 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1101434)
If Trump's plan had been in place, neither Jindal, Rubio, Cruz or Santorum would be US citizens.
Oh really, I don't believe that is a true statement! Since their parents or grandparents entered legally!

Guest 08-18-2015 05:29 PM
No one takes President Obama seriously. Then, what is the big deal about the Iran agreement. He isn't serious about vetoing Republican's opposition to the agreement. Just vote no on the agreement, why pretend that you are looking at all the options? As soon as he put it forward, the Republicans were against it. Why wait? No one is going to believe the illusion the Republicans are trying to put forward. That they actually care about anything, but themselves.

Guest 08-18-2015 05:34 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1101528)
No one takes President Obama seriously. Then, what is the big deal about the Iran agreement. He isn't serious about vetoing Republican's opposition to the agreement. Just vote no on the agreement, why pretend that you are looking at all the options? As soon as he put it forward, the Republicans were against it. Why wait? No one is going to believe the illusion the Republicans are trying to put forward. That they actually care about anything, but themselves.
What has your comment got to do with OP's original post?

Guest 08-18-2015 05:35 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1101528)
No one takes President Obama seriously. Then, what is the big deal about the Iran agreement. He isn't serious about vetoing Republican's opposition to the agreement. Just vote no on the agreement, why pretend that you are looking at all the options? As soon as he put it forward, the Republicans were against it. Why wait? No one is going to believe the illusion the Republicans are trying to put forward. That they actually care about anything, but themselves.

Well, I guess we know where you stand.

Guest 08-18-2015 06:19 PM
When did Donald's mother become a citizen?:ohdear:

Guest 08-18-2015 06:45 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1101528)
No one takes President Obama seriously. Then, what is the big deal about the Iran agreement. He isn't serious about vetoing Republican's opposition to the agreement. Just vote no on the agreement, why pretend that you are looking at all the options? As soon as he put it forward, the Republicans were against it. Why wait? No one is going to believe the illusion the Republicans are trying to put forward. That they actually care about anything, but themselves.
This Iran situation is simply a repeat of the Affordable Care Act.

No matter what happens, President Obama has only one person to blame for both the continuing distrust on the Affordable Care Act and the Iran deal.

Back in 2014, there was an opinion piece that I read and concur with. I looked and finally was able to pin it down.

It speaks to our President never asking for advice and feeling that his opinion is the only opinion and is always correct.

A few "outages" from that piece, which is on the Iran deal, but you can substitute the Affordable Care act as well...

"President Obama’s insistence on consulting largely with himself on the world’s most complex issues is well known. Most troublesome for the outcome with Iran is his rejection of needed support from Congress."

This insistence was apparent in the Affordable Care ramp up. He did not want any input at all and was forced to have a dog and pony show on CSPAN, in which he mocked Republicans PUBLICLY. I designated that day that the was the end of any cooperation between the parties, as he manifested that it was "his way or the highway"

While negotiations were on going in 2014 and concessions were being made...

"Throughout the negotiations, however, the Obama Administration has gone out of its way to weaken the U.S. negotiating hand. Earlier this year, the White House twisted arms in the Senate to abandon a bipartisan bill, co-sponsored by 60 of the chamber’s 100 legislators, that put in place stronger sanctions against Iran in case those talks failed.

Despite Mr. Obama’s opposition, the Senate had led the push to hit Iran’s economy harder, forcing the regime to the table. Noting Iran’s opposition to this year’s sanctions bill, Administration officials said they wanted to send a goodwill gesture to Tehran. As the summer deadline extension showed, the Iranians offered nothing in return."


Those who look at our world and think that NOBODY but the President can be correct, are doing a real disservice to themselves, because not only are they totally and freely ignoring what has happened in this country for six years but making the situation much more diverse than it need be,

Obama, Congress and Iran - WSJ

When John Kerry appeared before Congress, he was asked by a democrat, Representative Brad Sherman (D., Calif.) if the LAW will be followed by the administration if the veto is overridden, which is probably not going to happen.

But his response was telling in that he would not commit without consulting with the President. Sherman pressed in shock and asked him if he were implying that the LAW would not be followed by the President. Kerry would not commit.

If you need a link to that, either google or ask. I is a video on several sites.

The key is this President has made this mess with Democrats and Republicans and has even offended many....well, lets say LOTS within his party with his idea that HE and only HE....not the law...he should have the final say on everything.

We need in the next election and this will be my guide, a statesman and someone who understands the meaning of compromise and hearing others ideas and also understanding this is not someone's kingdom

Republicans will criticize Democrats...Democrats will criticize Republicans, but the last 6 years the cadence has picked up. I just suggest you consider what I am saying. There is a lot of information to bolster this and when this administration is done, there will be many many books written about how this President, single handily has widened the crevice of understanding, not only in politics but in race and other areas. And he has only himself to blame

Guest 08-18-2015 07:09 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1101469)
How does Trump's plan help with the Hispanic vote? Most experts say in order for the GOP to win in 2016, they must get 40% of that vote. George Bush got 40%, McCain got 30% and Romney got 25%. Anyone see a pattern developing here?
Well, since Hilary won't be able to get the Independent vote, assuming that she is still in the running and not in jail, then it isn't about the Latin vote so much. If all the Republicans vote Republican and the Independents vote Republican by a majority, then a Democrat could conceivably have the Latin vote and still not win the election. After all, I doubt Hilary will get much of a black turnout for her. She can incite them all she wants, but she might make them angry but not stupid enough to vote for her. NO ONE trusts her, let alone the black voter. And, suppose Rubio or Cruz are nominated. Do you think the Latin voter is going to vote for Hilary? Did the blacks vote for McCain? I doubt that Trump will be the nominee.

Guest 08-18-2015 07:21 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1101594)
Well, since Hilary won't be able to get the Independent vote, assuming that she is still in the running and not in jail, then it isn't about the Latin vote so much. If all the Republicans vote Republican and the Independents vote Republican by a majority, then a Democrat could conceivably have the Latin vote and still not win the election. After all, I doubt Hilary will get much of a black turnout for her. She can incite them all she wants, but she might make them angry but not stupid enough to vote for her. NO ONE trusts her, let alone the black voter. And, suppose Rubio or Cruz are nominated. Do you think the Latin voter is going to vote for Hilary? Did the blacks vote for McCain? I doubt that Trump will be the nominee.
And here is a surprise for the trophy seeking, party loving folks.

Some candidates are running for President because they believe in things and are not pandering for votes.

Some on here keep posting when a candidate speaks from the heart.....well, how can he/she get that vote.....you know, winning the trophy is not always the goal. Trying to convince folks to support your plans to make the country better is a better goal.

I realize that is foreign to many, but I prefer those who speak from their heart and not with a copy of a poll in their hand.

Other night, a poster was flat out maligning a few candidates basically because they believed in something and she objected to that. I might not agree with them, but they have my instant respect.

Guest 08-18-2015 07:42 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1101581)
This Iran situation is simply a repeat of the Affordable Care Act.

No matter what happens, President Obama has only one person to blame for both the continuing distrust on the Affordable Care Act and the Iran deal.

Back in 2014, there was an opinion piece that I read and concur with. I looked and finally was able to pin it down.

It speaks to our President never asking for advice and feeling that his opinion is the only opinion and is always correct.

A few "outages" from that piece, which is on the Iran deal, but you can substitute the Affordable Care act as well...

"President Obama’s insistence on consulting largely with himself on the world’s most complex issues is well known. Most troublesome for the outcome with Iran is his rejection of needed support from Congress."

This insistence was apparent in the Affordable Care ramp up. He did not want any input at all and was forced to have a dog and pony show on CSPAN, in which he mocked Republicans PUBLICLY. I designated that day that the was the end of any cooperation between the parties, as he manifested that it was "his way or the highway"

While negotiations were on going in 2014 and concessions were being made...

"Throughout the negotiations, however, the Obama Administration has gone out of its way to weaken the U.S. negotiating hand. Earlier this year, the White House twisted arms in the Senate to abandon a bipartisan bill, co-sponsored by 60 of the chamber’s 100 legislators, that put in place stronger sanctions against Iran in case those talks failed.

Despite Mr. Obama’s opposition, the Senate had led the push to hit Iran’s economy harder, forcing the regime to the table. Noting Iran’s opposition to this year’s sanctions bill, Administration officials said they wanted to send a goodwill gesture to Tehran. As the summer deadline extension showed, the Iranians offered nothing in return."


Those who look at our world and think that NOBODY but the President can be correct, are doing a real disservice to themselves, because not only are they totally and freely ignoring what has happened in this country for six years but making the situation much more diverse than it need be,

Obama, Congress and Iran - WSJ

When John Kerry appeared before Congress, he was asked by a democrat, Representative Brad Sherman (D., Calif.) if the LAW will be followed by the administration if the veto is overridden, which is probably not going to happen.

But his response was telling in that he would not commit without consulting with the President. Sherman pressed in shock and asked him if he were implying that the LAW would not be followed by the President. Kerry would not commit.

If you need a link to that, either google or ask. I is a video on several sites.

The key is this President has made this mess with Democrats and Republicans and has even offended many....well, lets say LOTS within:blahblahblah::blahblahblah: his party with his idea that HE and only HE....not the law...he should have the final say on everything.

We need in the next election and this will be my guide, a statesman and someone who understands the meaning of compromise and hearing others ideas and also understanding this is not someone's kingdom

Republicans will criticize Democrats...Democrats will criticize Republicans, but the last 6 years the cadence has picked up. I just suggest you consider what I am saying:blahblahblah:. There is a lot of information :blahblahblah:to bolster this and when this administration is done, there will be many many books written about how this President, single handily has widened the crevice:blahblahblah: of understanding, not only in politics but in race and other areas. And he has only himself to blame

What the heck does your rambling rant have to do with the original post?

If you want to start a new thread, do so, but stay on topic.

Guest 08-18-2015 07:47 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1101630)
What the heck does your rambling rant have to do with the original post?

If you want to start a new thread, do so, but stay on topic.
Just responding to posts about voting blocks. But you have fun now !!

Guest 08-18-2015 07:50 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1101633)
Just responding to posts about voting blocks. :ohdear: But you have fun now !:blahblahblah::blahblahblah::blahblahblah:!
"Voting blocs". Look it up.

Guest 08-18-2015 08:49 PM
This Iran situation is simply a repeat of the Affordable Care Act

I know Republicans only watch Fox News. If you watched other news stations, you wouldn't make this comparison. This week MSNBC raked the Republicans over the coals concerning the dire consequences Boehner, McConnell, and others predicted would happen to the economy, and the health care industry due to ACA. They were proven wrong on everything. They were so wrong that they aren't even talking about it now.

If you haven't noticed, ACA doesn't come up much except by Republican candidates, who never provide any great detail into how they would replace it.

If the Iran agreement turns out to be the same disaster(LOL) as ACA, it will go in history as a great agreement. Sorry, I changed the subject. You were on such a roll talking about Trump's stupidness.

Guest 08-18-2015 10:15 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1101672)
This Iran situation is simply a repeat of the Affordable Care Act

I know Republicans only watch Fox News. If you watched other news stations, you wouldn't make this comparison. This week MSNBC raked the Republicans over the coals concerning the dire consequences Boehner, McConnell, and others predicted would happen to the economy, and the health care industry due to ACA. They were proven wrong on everything. They were so wrong that they aren't even talking about it now.

If you haven't noticed, ACA doesn't come up much except by Republican candidates, who never provide any great detail into how they would replac,e it.

If the Iran agreement turns out to be the same disaster(LOL) as ACA, it will go in history as a great agreement. Sorry, I changed the subject. You were on such a roll talking about Trump's stupidness.
BS!

Guest 08-19-2015 05:01 AM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1101672)
This Iran situation is simply a repeat of the Affordable Care Act

I know Republicans only watch Fox News. If you watched other news stations, you wouldn't make this comparison. This week MSNBC raked the Republicans over the coals concerning the dire consequences Boehner, McConnell, and others predicted would happen to the economy, and the health care industry due to ACA. They were proven wrong on everything. They were so wrong that they aren't even talking about it now.

If you haven't noticed, ACA doesn't come up much except by Republican candidates, who never provide any great detail into how they would replace it.

If the Iran agreement turns out to be the same disaster(LOL) as ACA, it will go in history as a great agreement. Sorry, I changed the subject. You were on such a roll talking about Trump's stupidness.
Wrong. Says something when you attempt to use MSNBC as a reference. Lowest rated network out there. :1rotfl:

Guest 08-19-2015 05:03 AM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1101566)
When did Donald's mother become a citizen?:ohdear:
Are you a citizen?

Guest 08-19-2015 05:04 AM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1101672)
This Iran situation is simply a repeat of the Affordable Care Act

I know Republicans only watch Fox News. If you watched other news stations, you wouldn't make this comparison. This week MSNBC raked the Republicans over the coals concerning the dire consequences Boehner, McConnell, and others predicted would happen to the economy, and the health care industry due to ACA. They were proven wrong on everything. They were so wrong that they aren't even talking about it now.

If you haven't noticed, ACA doesn't come up much except by Republican candidates, who never provide any great detail into how they would replace it.

If the Iran agreement turns out to be the same disaster(LOL) as ACA, it will go in history as a great agreement. Sorry, I changed the subject. You were on such a roll talking about Trump's stupidness.
Nothing to do with the subject. Go away troll.

Guest 08-19-2015 06:32 AM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1101483)
The exceptions to the 14th amendment are children born to foreign diplomats or hostile forces are not automatically U.S. citizens. It would take another amendment to rescind the 14th amendment.

Frequently Asked Questions: Defending Citizenship Under the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution | American Civil Liberties Union
The supreme court could do it without an amendment.

Guest 08-19-2015 12:41 PM
This thread has gone useless!

Guest 08-20-2015 01:46 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1101434)
If Trump's plan had been in place, neither Jindal, Rubio, Cruz or Santorum would be US citizens.
They came in legally ...what part of that do you find difficult to understand?

Guest 08-21-2015 01:37 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1101720)
The supreme court could do it without an amendment.
No, they could not. It would take a Constitutional Amendment to take out an amendment.

Even IF they could, the current Court is a liberal sided Court. Probably the only justice that would vote in favor of removing the amendment is Clarence Thomas - and he is a loser.

Guest 08-21-2015 01:39 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1102820)
No, they could not. It would take a Constitutional Amendment to take out an amendment.

Even IF they could, the current Court is a liberal sided Court. Probably the only justice that would vote in favor of removing the amendment is Clarence Thomas - and he is a loser.
RACIST remark!! :police:

Guest 08-21-2015 02:07 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1102822)
RACIST remark!! :police:
Just a loser that ......happens to be black!

Guest 08-21-2015 02:30 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1102836)
Just a loser that ......happens to be black!
Ahh, I get it! It's OK, since you are a liberal, right? Liberals can't be racist. Not even when they insist on gov funding of Planned Parenthood, even though they killed more black babies last year than were born. Got it.

Sorry, I am guilty of diverting this time. Couldn't resist it. :D

Guest 08-21-2015 10:55 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1102852)
Ahh, I get it! It's OK, since you are a liberal, right? Liberals can't be racist. Not even when they insist on gov funding of Planned Parenthood, even though they killed more black babies last year than were born. Got it.

Sorry, I am guilty of diverting this time. Couldn't resist it. :D
Who said you could come out of your racist troll hole? Get back underground.

It is a mother's choice to choose an abortion or not. The mother's choice is hers alone and is not up to a legislative body.

Guest 08-22-2015 04:39 AM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1101469)
How does Trump's plan help with the Hispanic vote? Most experts say in order for the GOP to win in 2016, they must get 40% of that vote. George Bush got 40%, McCain got 30% and Romney got 25%. Anyone see a pattern developing here?
Dear Guest: The lack of Hispanic vote for Romney ( 25-27% have been quoted) did not sink him. What did was 4% white Republican voters who refused to vote. We can thank the Republican Establishment for that result.

Personal Best Regards

Guest 08-22-2015 04:50 AM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1101476)
Since Trump considers President Obama to be an "illegal" since he was not born in the USA, would his immigration plan also require the President to leave the country?
Dear Guest: Be careful now progressive have taken "illegal alien" to be a trigger warning micro aggressive term along with anchor baby

People who spend years working to enter this country through proper channels should be incensed over this issue. And every time I hear Bush say it is an act of love it tells me emotion precedes intellect.

Mexico is now requiring Americans to present passports at the border so they know who is entering their country.....Go figure!

As to: Obama is his name and "illegality" is his game............"and I side with the majority worse president ever


Personal Best Regards

Guest 08-22-2015 05:21 AM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 1103031)
Who said you could come out of your racist troll hole? Get back underground.

It is a mother's choice to choose an abortion or not. The mother's choice is hers alone and is not up to a legislative body.
You didn't answer the question, but I think by that you have proven that you are not from here and indeed are a troll.

I never argued about the legality of abortion. Just because something is legal doesn't make it morally right. That just makes it statutorily correct.

Guest 08-22-2015 05:47 AM
The term "Illegal Alien" is NOT a slur. It's a correct term that upsets the group that is trying to convince us that squatting on American land indicates residence/citizenship. They are criminals, thus the term "Illegal" and belonging to a foreign country so "alien." There is no slur in using a totally correct term. It would only be a slur if in fact, these foreign nationals came our country legally, in which case they would be legal aliens or in some cases if they were staying, then they would be immigrants. Another term would be "illegal immigrants" which would also be a proper term. Using a term such as "undocumented immigrant" is a misnomer when using it to describe a person that enters our country illegally. That term implies that person may or may not have come here legally but has yet to obtain proper residency paperwork.

So, the PC crowd can kiss my @** because if they don't understand the proper meaning of a term, then perhaps they need to go back to grade school.

We are a country of laws. Just because we have those that believe they are above the law (ie, the Clintons) does not change that fact. Without laws we become an anarchy. We have proper immigration laws. There is no statute of limitations on illegally entering our country. If a child is born in our country from an illegal alien, it is not our fault but the fault of the illegal parent. The child may stay, but the parent must leave. Sorry, we have laws. Same thing happens when a parent (U.S. citizen) breaks a law in our country. They go to jail and leave the child behind. I didn't cause them to break the law.

I believe that the Constitution was not written specifically for these cases. But, it was interpreted that way by the high and mighty Supremes, therefore law. If we want a different process, then we simply add a small amendment that states that children of illegals are not given citizenship by birth. Simple.

Guest 08-22-2015 05:59 AM
Wouldn't the legal hispanic population be going along with Trump on this as it's shining a bad light on the legal hispanic voters?


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