Breakers Tripping in Neighborhood
 

We live in Village of Fernandina and several neighbors including myself have had our breakers trip last night and again this morning. This hasn't happened since May but has started in again. I worry most for the feeble elderly that have to go into their garages every time to fix it. Someone is doing something to make this happen. We need some answers please.

We live on Fieldbrook, and we had this happen last night and again this morning. I didn't have to reset them last night, but this morning I did, and I had 5 that was tripped. We can't have this continue or it's going to ruin one of our appliances. I'm just glad we was home, or we could have come back to a freezer full of thawed food! There are many snowbirds that have not returned yet, we hope their homes are okay.
We were told that a HAM radio was causing it. We ar not sure if that is true or not. We do know that we have not had any problem with this since May, and now twice in 24 hours. Something has to be done to fix this problem!!! Someones going to get a phone call bright and early Tuesday morning!!!

Did they say how a ham radio could cause something like this? Just curious.

An improperly grounded HAM radio antenna can cause that. Do you all live close to eachother? Inquire with your neighbors.

A few months back, a local electrician here in TV told me that they do see problems with the 1st generation of arc fault breakers being tripped by nearby HAM radios. While trying to determine the cause of the breakers tripping, they have found that HAM radio antennas can be "hidden" inside a flag pole, so they are difficult to locate. Supposedly, the 2nd generation of the arc fault breakers are not as sensitive to the radio waves, but they are not cheap.

I found 6 tripped, all were low amps none of the 220V, strange first time in 2 1/2 years.

So because someone doesn't have their antenna installed properly I have to pay for better breakers? I'm a pretty good investigator so I'll find out very soon.

If you do a search in Google for ARC fault breaker nuisance tripping, you will find that at least one specific brand of breaker did respond to the radio interference and would trip. They actually created a version of the AFCI breaker labeled HAM that supposedly had additional filtering. I did find a previous thread on TOTV regarding this issue, you may find some answers there.
To clarify a few points:
1. You should find the AFCI breakers serving the bedrooms and living room areas only.
2. These breakers are difference from GFCI breakers which are used for outside, bathroom, kitchen areas, where water is present.
3. During a close in lightning strike, I had 3 GFCI receptacles all in the garage trip, no circuit breakers so far. Been in the house, village of Pinellas, almost 2 years.
4. My neighbor had a really weird experience where opening the refrigerator door would trip the AFCI breaker supplying the living room. This happened several times over a 6-7 month period. When he contacted an electrician, he found the refrigerator circuit breaker was on the SAME leg as the living room AFCI breaker. The electrician swapped the refrigerator with another circuit on the opposite leg, and this appears to have eliminated the problem.
5. There have been LOTS of problems reported with these breakers. I have not seen any specific solutions, but a lot of theories on what may be happening.

I hope the above helps, and perhaps some of the inspectors or electricians can add their experience or insight.

Thank you Village tinker

One other thought came to mind, if there is a cluster of homes experiencing the problem, it might be a good idea to call SECO and ask them to check the facilities in the area, incase there is a problem on the utility side. I have not seen this as a proposed cause, but that would typically be the only thing in common with several houses.
Please keep us up to date with what you find.

We live in Charlotte. Found two AFCI breakers tripped this morning... living room, and kitchen overhead lights. Both 15-Amp. We've been here almost 3 years and this is only the second time this has happened. The first time was in early 2013. The problem that time was faulty wiring in our post light.

I live on Brassie Terrace, I had no issues but my neighbor had 6 breakers tripped. No 220V or appliance breakers were tripped.

If a person has lightning rods installed in their house and they get a hit--their neighbors will be affected--look around for lightning rods.
also your panel grounding should be checked.

Duh! Has anybody called SECO???

Ours tripped weekly in our villa in pennacamp. Seco could not figure it out. Lenheart came out changed breaker still happen. Then all of a sudden it stopped. No reason either way

'Duh!' -?? ----Oh thanks for the helpful suggestion. Never would have thought of that.

Yes, of course attempts were made to call SECO this morning and without resolution so far.

Had the same issue when we moved here, had warranty dept send out electrician who said it my be a ham radio operator. Turned out our front lamp post light arked when it went on. He did something in the lamp wiring, no problems since

This is exactly how I found out about the ARC fault breakers being sensitive to HAM radios. Occasionally, when opening the refrigerator, the living room AFCI breaker would trip. Once that breaker was replaced with a 2nd generation AFCI breaker, everything is fine. The electrician had to come out twice to correct the problem, and he and I started talking about what can cause the breaker to trip. He also said that they have identified certain models of the Whirlpool refrigerators that can cause the problem - something to do with the LED lighting in them.

Since it is suddenly happening in more than one home in the area, I would agree that SECO should check it out.

SECO guys just left my house in Fernandina. Apparently several more homes nearby with the same issues. While SECO was here another neighbor came over to report the same problems . The responders seem baffled for answers but are very polite and said there is no immediate danger with what's going on. Could be a "bad batch of electrical equipment that was bought in volume for this area's initial construction" is one idea. In this neighborhood the houses are new enough that this issue should be reported to Home Warranty dept. of the Villages as they may need to become involved in replacements if a batch of faulty equipment has been installed.

I agree, talk to all of your neighbors, and have all of them contact home warranty, you may be on to something. By the way, my neighbor must have one of the Whirlpool units with the LEDs that cause the problem, my Whirlpool so far has not caused any problems.

Also live on allaire loop lost power on about 6 breakers at 10:00 Friday night and 6:30 this morning. I doubt that all are breakers have gone bad at the exact same time in the neighborhood.

Exactly! Must be a Ham radio person.

As I recall there had been a rash of breakers tripping about 3-4 years go that eventually was attributed to defective breakers

If there is a ham operator in the neighborhood, wouldn't some neighbor know it? Assuming there is one, what happens next?

I'm not a ham radio operator, but if I was, I wouldn't think this was my problem or anyway my fault. Ham radio operators can provide a valuable service to a community. Perhaps I am missing something here---is this prohibited here in The Villages?

We also had two breakers tripped within the last 24 hours on the south side of Sanibel,

If I can go off topic for just a moment. About 20 years ago I had a rather serious situation with a ham radio operator. One day I noticed the picture on my television was all snow and I can hear talking coming through. When I picked up my telephone I can hear talking before I even press the first number. I no longer had use of my television or landline phone. Based on the conversations I can hear from my television and phone, I had a gut feeling this was a ham radio.

I walked the neighborhood and found a 20 foot antenna in someone's backyard, about five houses away. I talked to the neighbor and learned they just moved in, a renter. I told him what I was experiencing. He said, it's not my problem. I called the regional FCC office, which happens to be in my city. They sent out a truck to see if he was in compliance with the power output of his antenna. He was in compliance. The FCC told me I would just have to live with it. We moved.

Please tell me you don't have this kind of problem in TV.

Not a problem I've ever experienced in TV.

I wish the poster who calls himself "Lightning" would address this issue.


I am wondering if it was a lightning strike or two that hit the ground and traveled to people's homes, overpowering the breakers.


We had one television that we neglected to put a power surge thingy on and it died a couple weeks ago during a terrific lightning event.


This lightning thing is very serious here. I blame the Morses.

The AFCI issue is a complicated and complex one. Much of what has been posted so far is good info, and some is a bit off the mark.
I am not an expert on this issue and my opinion is by no means the last word on the subject.

AFCI's trip for various reasons. They are designed to trip when an arc is detected or the amperage for that circuit is exceeded. The problem is that there are some electrical appliances that are designed to have an arc, like corded drills, some vacuum cleaners, etc, etc.

So....when an AFCI trips, the question is this.....Is the AFCI defective, oversensitive, etc, or is it correctly doing it's intended job. If the circuit is a 15 amp circuit, and you have a huge TV, sound system, a bunch of lamps, etc on the circuit, then plug in a powerful 12 amp vacuum cleaner, and the AFCI trips, you have probably exceeded the amperage.

While 15 amp receptacle circuits pass code, I personally prefer all of my receptacles wired with 20 amp circuits, but that is not required.

Furthermore, some AFCI's can trip from some refrigerators, plasma TV's etc. Sometimes the Electrician's will add a magnet type device to the conductors in the panelbox, or add a coil of additional conductors to that circuit to dissipate the problem, or change the electrical cord, etc, in the back of the refrigerator to solve this. Whirlpool recently has been covering the warranty cost of this on homes less than one year old.

To complicate the issue, one can have a Ham Radio operator a block away trip your AFCI breakers. That Ham Radio operator is doing nothing wrong, and his equipment is totally compliant to all laws and codes. He has every right to be a Ham Radio operator, just as much as you have the right to play golf. He is doing nothing wrong. You can own your home for say 5 years, no problems, then suddenly you have this problem due to a new neighbor or new hobby.

The law states that the manufacturers of the AFCI's have the obligation to make their product work with all existing electrical and radio frequencies, etc. The onus is on them. Not your neighbor. Sadly, this does not help you at all or solve your problem.

There are different generations of AFCI's, and the newer ones are less problematic. They are costly. A regular circuit breaker can cost less than $5.00, but AFCI's can be between $50-$80 a piece. Plus installation.

So, in short, this problem has a number of different causes, and some of the causes are the normal intended function of the AFCI(s). One size does NOT fit all.

This is NOT just a problem here in The Villages....it is a well known issue that should work itself out as the newer generations of AFCI's become more common.

When I do a warranty inspection I ask the homeowners if they have had any issues of this nature and make sure it get into the report so the Electrician's can take all the needed steps to remedy the issue, whether it be changing the AFCI, or the refrigerator component, etc.

Again, I am NOT an licenced Electrician. I have wired complete houses and as a Home Inspector have a good working knowledge of typical household electrical systems. I post this only as an attempt to clarify the issue somewhat. If you have this type of issue, I suggest contacting a good licensed Electrician to troubleshoot your UNIQUE situation, as your "fix" may be different than your neighbor. Any good Electrician should have a good understanding of this issue. I do know that Terry from Pike's is considered an expert on this issue.

I hope this helps....

Frank

What Frank states above is a very good synopsis of the problems. I have a long (40+ years) electrical engineering background, and everything I have found researching this false tripping problem, leads to lots of POSSIBLE causes, and lots of confusion. The basis problem is that the specific faults the AFCI is designed to detect and trip for look a lot like other naturally occurring phenomena that they do not need to trip for. This is all very aggravating for the end user.
Hope this helps.

Good information
 

:wave: Excellent post Frank---thanks for the information. I have lived in neighborhoods with ham operators before but never had this problem and never had a "tripping breaker" issue until a couple years ago. Pike's replaced some breakers and all was okay.

The new sometimes not as good as the old!

Thanks for the useful comments. Seems that we have a very common problem in a concentrated area. I am leaning toward problems caused by the recent lightening strikes we've had affecting overly sensitive breakers, but that's just my opinion. I left a message for Home Warranty (753-6222) and don't expect a response until tomorrow due to the holiday. If I don't have a response from them tomorrow, will try again. It's a good idea for all who have been affected to call them so they understand it's not just a few "squeaky wheels" complaining about this irritating and potentially dangerous problem.

Will do, I think if it was lightening it would have happened at the time of the strike. I will also call seco

When we lived in rural Illinois four years ago, a lightening strike occurred in our neighbor's yard, killing a tree, and took out one of our TV's instantly. . GRADUALLY we lost 4 electronic devices over a span of two days, with the final failure being that of our private well which was 210 feet deep. Our insurance company covered it all and advised that it is not at all unusual for various equipment to fail relatively slowly after a strike. It is not always instant.

Did anyone think of calling the electric company to see if they had any ideas?

Several months ago we had the same issue with half dozen circuit breakers tripping in about 12 homes in our neighborhood. Turns out a not so good neighbor put in a HAM radio antenna which was causing the problem - and he didn't care and Community Standards was powerless in this situation. Our master electrician neighbor replaced the 6 or 7 breakers with the second generation arc fault breakers and this solved the problem. Sounds like you may have a new HAM operator in your area.

reading all about the breakers tripping mine 6 breakers just tripped at 10pm

When I woke up this morning the lights didn't work in the kitchen .. I went out to check and we had 3 breakers tripped. We live in the Village of Charlotte. VERY strange.

These two links are NOT The Villages, but are quite interesting to this topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsILD0Fce1s

Forum » RFI - Discussion and Q&A » HF RF Tripping Arc Fault Circuit Interrupters (AFCI's)

I'm not attacking you, but I think it's unfair to blame your neighbor or Community Standards for the problem. The neighbor has the right to operate the radio. The operation of the radio is not prohibited by deed restrictions.

The problem exists in the breakers. This has already been covered in other posts.