We've got ours so who cares
 

Anyone with children and grand-children should be outraged by the debt we are piling onto our future generations. This budget bill that is going to be passed this week is a disgrace and this forum is still talking about Hilary's emails. For their sake I hope all of those who are turning their backs to this are at room temperature when **** hits the fan. It is truly going to be ugly.

I understand how you feel, but take into consideration that winning one battle can cost the war. Do we really want to go through fighting, closing down the gov and then try to get Republicans elected next year? Anyone can see how it would go. The liberal media is going to back the socialists party rather than the conservatives and make the GOP out to be big bad bullies. Do we really want to give the enemy (yes enemy to the American way) more ammo to use in their campaign?

My advice to my fellow Republicans is to bite your tongue and let this one go. WE have a long journey full of obstacles before we can put someone in the White House that will attempt to turn this ship around before it hits that iceberg.

We can fix this gov only IF we get our man/woman into the White House. Would we rather block the dept ceiling, and end up with 8 more years of socialist dictatorship?

I agree with you.

To fix it long term, as you say the future generations, we need to change the violent move and it is a violent move to the extreme left.

To fix it long term, as you say the future generations, we need to change the violent move and it is a violent move to the extreme left.[/QUOTE]

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BS!

Dear Guest:

Unfortunately the Republican Establishment, like progressives,have been remiss in theirfiduciary obligations. The application of a repeated annual vote on the budget ceiling is an oxymoron in of itself.

Carly Fiorina is accurate in applying a zero based budget. This is so because the budget now being voted on is for future long term planning. We have yet to spend the amount allocated from the previous budget. Add to that the water carried ( redundancy) in previous budget and you are talking serious inflated accounting .

In my view neither the progressives nor the Republican Establishment are serious about taking down the debt. The Freedom Caucus is serious about cutting our debt but is going about it in the wrong manner.

Perhaps the introduction of Paul Ryan into the process will help but I am not dumping all my chips on its success.

Politicians one and all are artful dodgers and many are silvered tongue devils many capable of creating a tulip frenzy . Voters would be wise to trust but verify.

Carly Fiorina is also right when she states that as to both tax plans and budgeting cutting politicians have campaigned for decades about what they will do if elected... ad nauseam ...and to no avail. Even more depressing instead of getting even a little better it only gets a lot worse.

Personal Best Regards:

No one is turning their backs...
 

but perhaps since you are so passionate you have a solution? No? Neither does anyone else short of not voting for anyone that's in gov't now.

As to Chillary's emails...if anyone is turning a blind eye it would be you...why you ask? Great question...anyone that would vote for someone as blatantly dishonest as that person deserves the gov't we have. She's a perfect example as to why our gov't is a disgrace and you should be ashamed to suggest otherwise.

The Republican party is a joke. Sure they want to balance the budget, but don't want to go against any of their principles to do it. No tax increase on the rich. The flat tax morons want to increase taxes on the people that can afford it the least. Everyone of their tax plans increases the deficit, but that is not something anyone one of them will not keep spouting. They damn right well know none of their tax plans will ever happen. So, who is the liar? How stupid do you have to be to keep listening to them?

The Republicans don't want the military to be cut any further. The Democrats don't want social programs to be cut. Neither is going to get their own way no matter who is in the White House. This is the road to nowhere.

Can you be a bit more specific please.

Are you speaking of the new budget proposal that the parties settled on ?

Or, are you speaking of candidate proposals thus far ?

I have read your post a few times and find it difficult without some specific areas to respond to.

You mention tax plans....that would be the candidates speaking.

You mention military spending...that would be the new compromise agreement.

You mention not cutting social programs...that would be the new compromise or in a very general sense, the candidates.

You mention principles....that could be either.

Tough to reply without you giving some specifics.

I would love to see intelligent debate on this subj.ect as it is a weak are for me and I want to learn more.

Everyone should pay taxes. Period.

Bush's big mistake in my opinion was to eliminate tax requirements on the lower earners. Now, we have those that depend on the gov more and more and the socialists are starting to thrive. Socialism thrives on a population that is dependent on the gov. That's why we are seeing so many liberal/socialist votes. Dependency, just like being dependent on drugs.

The military budget is tiny compared to the entitlement slice of the pie. The Constitution has a mandate for National Defense, but not for entitlements. The only entitlements that we are owed are Social Security and Medicare, that everyone paid for. Anything else can be cut freely.

A flat tax across the board is not a bad thing, but I would rather see a federal sales tax take the place of income tax.

Road to nowhere?
No leadership. And those that are in positions of authority are feathering their own nests or agendas.

There is no leadership in Washington, DC.....and there won't be as long as the cronys (both R & D) continue to hold office and get re-elected by the uninformed lemming electorate.

Everyone does pay taxes. Social security, Medicare, gasoline, and sales taxes. If they rent, indirectly they are paying property taxes.

Bush's biggest tax cuts went to the people in the 39.6% tax bracket.

Take a look the chart of the 2014 budget. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United..._-_FY_2011.png

The two biggest categories are social security, and Medicare. The Republicans largest group of supporters are older Americans. Socialism seems to be working fine for us. It takes gall to complain about everybody else. We are the biggest takers. Sure we paid into the program for 30-40 years, but that money wasn't put aside for us. It was paid to people that were collecting at the time. If they put the plug on social security, which they won't do, we would be out of luck. We are not entitled to social security.

Defense spending is greater than discretionary spending. Constitution mandates national defense, but not at the cost of everything else.

Your link is to the budget of FY 2011 ~

"We are not entitled to social security. "

Could you explain that to me and get my money back for me

This is not only warped thinking....." Socialism seems to be working fine for us. " and "We are not entitled to social security."

BUT ALSO SCARY AS HECK

No, I am speaking about the 1920 budget, and the effects that it had back then. Sometimes common sense applies. When you have to explain everything in great detail, no one here is going to listen. Take a look at the posts. The majority are one or two sentences long. The fact of the matter here people don't want to reply only attack.

Take a look at the threads. There was a Republican debate last night, and there isn't one thread on the board about it. Any Republican on Republican disagreement is avoided at all costs here. I started a post several weeks ago when two Republicans went at each other on Meet the Press, and it died a quick death.

Anytime you try to go into great detail, you are accused of changing the subject. You may be the exception, but the others will join the conversation, and it will be brought down to the gutter in one big hurry.

Well, I will agree with you totally on your assessment !

I have started threads on Syria, Iran, Israel, and even the budget, along with a number of others. I also always add a link to validate what I am saying so as to not be accused of simply "saying stuff". THAT to me is what a forum is about and other that I frequent ARE like that.

That does not make me anyone special by any stretch and can only offer my opinion.

I KNOW there are some very nice and intelligent liberal, Democratic posters. They were here way back when this forum began in 2007 (started actually discussing the possibility of a horse racing site here). They were smart, quick and alert and well read posters. I disagreed many times but they, and I always kept the conversation civil and based on facts and relative to the issues.

Even at the beginning of the 2008 cycle we had spirited but civil conversations.

Then a new breed came upon us, and I can only tell you that many of those liberal democratic folks that used to post have told me in emails that they got sick of the newbies. Newbies can be defined anyway you want....because I have no idea if they are or were new to The Villages, TOTV but suddenly, there was a surge of liberal posters (this does not mean by any measure that conservative posters are exempt from what I am saying at all) who for some reason came with the mentality of simply flaming and being a nuisance. (Something you would think you would not see in The Villages, because generally you are speaking to your neighbors)

I mention liberals only because the trouble makers seem to come mostly from that sphere which means nothing but random chance on this forum. They are the ones that perpetrate the myths about living in The Villages, and probably have scared a few potential neighbors away with their scary posts, which they also used to delight in posting on the main board.

So many were thrown off this board, have come back....many are on there third and fourth names here. They moved to TOPIX, and polluted that for a bit....seems maybe have settled there I hear.

These people ignored anything that required reading or being informed. Their game was to work WITH EACH OTHER to flame and insure that they polluted the moderators with complaints.

Why adults would act that way is beyond me.

I got a reputation and am still libeled on TOPIX and alluded to as a member of some gang that this group has manufactured in their head which never existed.

But in any case, there are many, many, many smart and wise liberals and many, many many smart and wise conservatives who live here and many of them used to post here.

I admittely, while my wife is recuperating, stop here a few times a day but spend most of my time reading and on other ADULT political sites where you can exchange ideas and learn

Your post, however, makes me wonder why waste my time with folks who have only an interest in what is commonly referred to as flaming

YOU ARE CORRECT...If you go into any detail, you are accused of..well, I have been accused of plagarism which is a lie (however, there are those who simply make things up...of course they have no links but just make it up...as with common courtesy the rules on copyrights and flaming are over their heads) and as you say, NEVER get a response simply a barb aimed at you or someone.

The gutter, as you call it, seems to be where most of these people want to be and thus you have inspired me to just walk away. I used to learn so much way back.....we had posters that were proficient with economics who would post and link to great sites. We had political professionals and the like but when you came on here, you would learn something. That is gone.

Thanks for your post...take care, and if everything goes as normal a few quips will land here taking me to task blaming me for anything (by the way I have never been thrown off here...changed my name once because I got some unsettling emails (because of an opinion) which bother me and the owner suggested that) and then probably on TOPIX, which is the toilet of the internet I think, there will be more mocking. Thats the game...mock, demean but whatever you do, as you correctly pointed out....ignore issues.

I did learn one thing from this group. NAMES....I have been called names that I never heard before...I have been accused of being any derisive name you can think of.

Take care...good luck

Your post is very painful for most of us to honestly look at but goes to root of problem. You will hear "I paid into social security and medicare all my life" but they fail to mention that they have probably got back what they paid in and more already. The next generation did not promise us anything, we elected polititians who did. Should not the generation that is not even old enough to vote have someone looking after their interests? It is very convenient to just point at democrats or republicans and wait until next election before we face the truth. When do we start addressing the truth that we have promised us ourselves much more than we can mathematically deliver? I believe it is still true numbers don't lie.

I am living in a great place. I have traveled the world and have seen some great and not so great places, but the U.S. is the best by far. Whether a democrat or republican has been in office hasn't changed my life one way or the other. Sometimes the economy was good sometimes not. There has never been anything on this forum or any of the political forums that has changed my vote. I am so happy to be surrounded by so many opinions. Freedom of speech is great. The day somebody tells you that you or one of your loved ones is sick, then I listen to educated opinions, not here.

You are remiss in adding one element of fact. We did have a Social Security surplus from the '80's. And you also didn't mention that THIS socialism was FORCED upon us. We didn't welcome it, the liberals welcomed it. If my money would have been even moderately invested with a slight earnings, it would be better. You act like since we subsidize our pensions with our own money Social Security, then we are embracing socialism. Not true. Social Security was not set up to pay for those that did not contribute. We have many folks getting social security that never paid into it. And that IS socialism.

And Defense spending is a much smaller percentage of the budget than entitlements; much smaller.

And Medicare is disgraceful. You pay all your working life for Medicare and what do you get in return? Hospitalization, and hardly anything else. No paid doctor visits, no medicine. If you want anything else, you have to pay another $105 per month for Medicare B. That's each, spouse is separate. I am one of the lucky ones where I have a total BC/BS policy. My medicare doesn't pay anything unless I am hospitalized. What good does medicare do to those that can't afford supplements? Even the poor folks get a better deal with Medicaid. And they don't have to pay for it.

The government messes up anything that they have a hand in.

Why do folks insist upon calling paid into programs entitlements?

Maybe for those who wind up getting the benefit that have never paid one dime into either SS or medicare view it as an entitlement. For the rest of us collecting a mandatory investment is not.

You are on the money, but I think the reason many of us call it an entitlement is because it is easier to use one word instead of Social Security benefits, or whatever.

I agree with you.

You are required to pay into SS but you draw out more than you put into it. Figure out how much you had to put in, now figure out how much you believe you and your spouse will withdraw for a lifetime. Which figure is higher?

You cannot say you would have been able to invest that same amount and get a higher return - we all know that the vast majority do not or would not start any saving for retirement until their mid-40's unless forced to do it.

Not true. You are assuming that the average American can NOT make good choices. On the other hand, they did elect a total unknown and he did turn out to be a failure, so you might have a certain amount of credibility in your statement.

However, if they treated it like they do their Thrift Savings plan, there would be a lot of folks with a very decent lifestyle now. That's what they did to the gov pension plan. They added SS payroll deductions, lowered the percentage of gov pension and supplied the added Thrift Savings plan. I would like to see the gov savings on that change.

I am tired of folks telling me that something CAN'T be done. It can, and it should. We have the best country in the world and we should live up to that standard. We don't want to be a European style socialist country. They are ALL failing. Even the ones that Sanders is bragging about. Failing, unsustainable, going bankrupt. Greece is just a preview of coming attractions.

America needs to show them how independent we are from our gov nanny. Privatize just about everything and it will thrive.

I think you may have missed the fact that it does not have be a dollar for dollar match of what was put in to be equitable.

The SS powers that be take the money and invest it, plus they have the contributions of the young paying in and the SS investing and add it all together as a source from which to pay out.

So if one want a comparison of paid in vs paid out the interest earned would have to be taken into account.


And like most corporate retirement accounts it probably earns more than the anticipated growth to benefit ratio. Many companies have dipped into to excess retirement reserves for that reason.....as has the federal government....without paying back what it took.....

That's the problem, it's been depleted because it is a bad investment. Even if it makes 3%, which may not be accurate, it doesn't do any good if congress borrows from it. I do realize that right now, we have the baby boomers retiring and siphoning off a more than is coming in. Let's be honest, the whole process is very similar to a Ponzi scheme.

Instead of stating the obvious, that Social Security is threatening to derail, someone needs to take the idea seriously and come up with viable solutions. Privatizing part of it sounds feasible. But, only/ONLY if it is continuously audited. I don't buy the idea that the stock market could fail and ruin it. It would actually shore up the stock market with a steady flow of revenue. I am not saying that all of it should be privatized, but it wouldn't hurt to allow the option of having part of your money go to the Thrift Savings plan of something similar. There are a lot of benefits of this idea.

How about turning back the clock? If you are not a contributor you do not get SS benefits. Let them get what ever assist they have gotten from some where else.

How about having professionals manage the billions instead of inept politicians or appointees. Do you know any billion aires collecting only 3%?
Even if you don't it matters not.

These two suggestions alone would assure liquidity on into the future. Now if we could just get the stupid politicians out of the mix there could be some progress.

Amen!

I recently attended a seminar on Social Security and they showed where the first recipient paid into the system a little less than $25.00 and collected over $100,000.00 in her lifetime and that was before a large number of sweeting enhancements were added. A pencil, pad of paper, and a willingness to be honest easily shows we have promised much more than can ever be paid. Kind of like Detroit.

My wish is option 3: that I had the money I was forced to give the gov't and was able to manage it as I saw fit. I'd be much better off.

I'm afraid this statement shows a complete lack of understanding of how the SS Trust fund works. The 2.78 trillion currently in the fund is INVESTED in the only place permitted by law---US Treasuries. So the rate of return is about 3%--it is the average interest on 30 year T-bills over the last 30 years. In a sense, Congress is "borrowing" it, since T-bills are how the government borrows money, but they are also paying the interest, so it does "do good". The privatization argument states that instead of investing solely in treasuries, some of the fund could be put into equities for a higher rate of return, but also a higher risk. This is NOT some sort of self directed proposal where YOU choose where to invest YOUR money---God help us all if that was allowed. Right now, the fund will continue to grow until 2019, when the demographic reality of baby boomers hits, and from then on is depleted until it hits zero somewhere around 2035, so early planning is essential, if the politicians can ever agree to do anything

we could see if we qualify for any of this aid to foreign countries:

Here

That is possible. How about if you had not been diligent, though, in your putting money aside? How about if you had invested all your money with Bernie Madoff and you found yourself broke at age 68 with no family to bail you out? There is no Social Security to help you.

What becomes of you at that point?

I am sincerely happy for your good fortune and you are advantaged if despite a Democrat run country or a Republican run country has not changed your life in one way or another. You must be resolute in your political beliefs to have never changed your vote despite information provided on any forum including this one. And we can all agree that freedom of speech is great.

However, for many if you have good fortune it could slip away under the wrong stewardship. The country's debt problems began with FDR and heightened under the Johnson Administration and has become about crippled under Obama. The participation rate for jobs is at a low, median income has dropped, blacks and women are being affected at a higher rate.
The FED kowtowing to Obama is held captive to low interest rates which has affected retirees who have for several years had to forfeit interest on their savings. In fact in some banks people storing money have to pay for the privilege .

Obama policies and regulations have created such uncertainty that corporations find it more advantageous to initiate stock buybacks or engage in mergers many which are utilized as corporate inversions rather than invest and expand their business

Educational institutes have become the epitome of marxist inspired political speech wherein trigger warning and micro-aggression are the norm. where conservative students are threatened with failing grades for offering a conservative view. Where America's history is being revised to its detriment
Where male students are being denied their due process. where our founding fathers are being portrayed as hateful white racist. In fact the classics are not promoted at many universities because their authors are depicted as hateful white men . Everyday there is another story of a student who has been threatened for standing up for his/her conservative values.
Christians are also under assault in this nation. Yet the government has seen fit to establish winners and losers by providing protected classes , a system in which they continue to abuse.

The mainstream media has such a liberal bias they either refuse to report stories they dislike, manipulate the data, ignore pertinent facts or plain out lie. And the sad part is that some of those journalist believe that is what they are suppose to do. I mean only Black Lives Matter

Government regulations have strangled both corporate and personal lives. People have become so accustom to the encroachment on their lives they don't even notice. its like a lobster being boiled

Overall the moral imperative of this nation no longer exist. Its surprising we haven't yet reached bottom but we are getting closer because we are not resolved in dealing with the problems that face this nation.

Who would have ever believed that in this nation we would be having a serious discussion on whether we should continue to move toward a socialist nation and abandoned capitalism.

In Eastern Europe the communist were successful because of there salami tactic (ie taking away their freedoms one slice at a time).

I too am grateful for and thank God for many blessings. However unfortunately we have bad actors and their useful idiots that are bent on destroying traditional America, the traditional America that provide the opportunity for you and I to grow and thrive.

Personal Best Regards:

Social Security is practically a ponzi scheme and is almost at the end of it's viable lifespan. When SS goes bankrupt, the gov has the option of cutting our benefits or even terminating them. Instead of talking and defending SS as the great lifesaver and how good it is, someone needs to figure out how to save it. I keep hearing people say how it would/could, should fail if it was privatized. Well, we know for sure that it is going to fail in the near future, so something will have to be done to preserve it. If it takes allowing folks to make decisions for themselves by allowing them a chance to choose from several funds, such as is with the Thrift Savings Plan (just an example) then what would that hurt? Allowing they to invest a portion of their payroll taxes in that manner would not hurt. It would be better than being taxes knowing that they would never see that money again.

Democrats are always giving us grief about having an alternative to Obamacare, but won't shut up long enough to hear us. It's the same now. We come up with a plan and all you hear them say is how nothing we say will work. Well, we know that SS will not work as the plan goes right now.

Even other countries with SS type taxing for gov pensions, are now going bankrupt. The countries that Bernie and Hilary are bragging about are in deep trouble, especially with all the refugee/immigration problems.

The only reason that congress won't approve of privatizing SS is that they won't be able to borrow from it. They won't have any control on the money.

Ideas are out there on how to repair SS, and one of them is to privatize a portion of it. The way I look at it is that everyone complains about it coming to an end, but no one wants to try anything new. It's time for the Dems or congress in general to either put up (an idea) or shut up. It's going to be too late to scream about someone doing something AFTER SS runs out of money. Even the best, most optimistic predictions have it bankrupt within twenty years. That's right around the corner.

It's not about "we got ours so who cares" because some of us will live long enough to see it disappear.

And this not attack

Meet the press liberal socialist democrat propaganda program of the elite scholars. Naturally they would do ther best to beat down the party that might stop the worthless grants that keeps it the indoctrination going. O by the way includes abc, nbc, cbs, msmbc, national public radio. Do I need to include nation newspapers too?

Ask Bernie?

Well, one thing for sure, the Democrats are responsible for all the sins of the world. Republicans have never done anything wrong. Ever! If they have, it wasn't worth mentioning. Not word one about anything that they have contributed to everything you mentioned.

Debt increased the most under Roosevelt, and Johnson. Maybe just maybe the wars had something to do with that. Of course not, it was all the social programs they instituted. Republicans love spending money on wars, and the military. So, it had to be the social programs, like social security. Also, the civil rights legations under Johnson, that made the blacks feel like they were equal. The blacks weren't happy with the legislation. They wanted the US to pay for all the sons in the last. So, they wanted to become more equal.

Fox News doesn't have a bias in favor of the Republicans, After all, they are fair and balanced. How do we know this? Because they say so all the time. They don't lie, and always report the truth. The Republican hopefuls wanted fair and balanced moderators for their debates. That is why they want Limbaugh, Hannity, and the like to moderate a love fest, and not a debate.

Eastern Europe became communist, because they were salamis. It had nothing to do with Communist Russia wanting a buffer between them and Europe, after World War II, and their military was in these countries in large numbers.

The second Obama became president, all American companies ran overseas to manufacture their goods. The economy was doing great. However, the second he became president the economy went in the crapper. Everything that he did after that made everything worse.

Adopting some socialist programs doesn't make us a socialist country. That is just total nonsense.

What income taxes has Obama changed, that makes American companies are holding 3 trillion dollars in overseas banks? They are doing to avoid paying taxes. How American is that?

Lets have no regulations on businesses at all. The 2008 great recession wasn't due to unregulated Wall street, It was, because Obama took office. Everybody knows that.

The Ivy colleges are a haven for socialists. No graduate of these colleges ever go into Wall Street, or the banking industry. They all become community activists with becoming president in the not to distant future in mind, or becoming a liberal TV reporter, so they can lie with immunity.

No senior has money in the 401(K) mutual fund. We keep all of our money at a bank. So, we aren't worried that the stock markets will fall, if the Fed raises interest rates. Not our problem.

States requiring picture id to vote. That isn't a regulation designed to make it hard for minorities to vote. It is there to stop next to no voter fraud.

Have I gone overboard on criticizing this post? You bet I have. The post went overboard criticizing the Democrats for everything. However, that is a constant state of being on this board. Go crazy attacking me. It will fall on deaf ears. I know who I am, and I know who you are.

PERSONAL DISREGARDS.

Didn't expect you to HEAR this post, but you will read it. You may ignore it, but you will read it.
Look you liberals whine about how mean the conservatives are. I bet you complained about your parents too. Someone has to take responsibility and it has not proved to be the Liberals. So, please get over it and quit crying the blues about the big mean conservatives. You have had 8 years practically unopposed and you still complain. So stomp your feet and get over your tantrum because it's time for the adults to take back the keys to the car and get it road worthy again. You've run it into the ground, and have not taken care of it. So, you lose the right to control it. SO, give us the keys so that a mature adult can fix it.

If you don't like a predominantly conservative forum, then feel free to go elsewhere. There are plenty of liberal/socialist sites you can log in to that will make you feel all warm and fuzzy. You all control the TV networks and we have to listen to the Blamer-in-chief almost daily, either giving news conferences or on some comedy show, so don't get so irrate when you come across someone on a conservative forum that doesn't agree with you.

You are technically correct but the words trust fund are very misleading. We are now cashing in these so called bonds but all that is happening is those funds are being pulled out of the general fund and where we are running a continuous deficiet it is going directly to national debt and will continue to do so. I myself don't call this a trust fund. Just my opinion though.

Give YOU the keys so a mature person can fix it???
We are still trying to fix the blunder that Weasel did by invading Iraq in search of those WMD's that were never thete.