Watching Granddaughter
 

Hey all. I love this forum...it keeps me up to date on everything exciting about this community. I feel like I belong here. I'm not retired, nor near the typical age to retire. I have a lovely wife and a five month old baby daughter.
I moved from Orlando and bought a beautiful townhome in your neighboring community of Lakeside Landings. My wife and I both work in The Villages.

Here goes...I go to work @ 2pm. I drop my daughter off before work at my mothers home, who lives in the villages. My wife picks her up @ 5pm and takes her home. Recently, someone informed on my mother to The Villages that she had a family living with her. That's us. My mother is now being told that we can only visit 30 times/days a year. Having our daughter for those few hours is a violation of The Villages contract.

Ok...My mother is in trouble with The Villages now because "they have logged every visit". Wow. Someone must not like my mother, I thought. I'ts obvious how we all feel about this as a close, loving family. We a devastated. We moved here to enjoy what The Villages has to offer. Now we feel scared. For two years we have enjoyed The Villages and the support it gives our small family. I don't understand why this is a concern. We chose to live no other place but here - so we could nuture our family bonding and live a good life.

I am curious how others feel about this. Surely, The Villagers have had families. I know that some retirees would love to be left to pursue their retirement without their fanily, I guess. I'm sure most would love to have their family nearby.

I'm so very sorry. Honestly, I'm not even sure what the issue is. You live outside of TV. Your mother gets to spend time with her granddaughter on a daily basis. You get to see your mother on a daily basis. What, pray tell, is wrong with that?

I love kids. I think they're fun to have around. I don't like babies but that's my problem, no one else's. Whether the child visiting grandma on a daily basis is 5 days or 15 years, I really don't care (unless the 15 YO is into breaking into my home or doing something else illegal).

So, here are my opinions: (1) It's none of my business. (2) I think kids are fun and I'd probably offer to help babysit once it was potty trained. (3) Your mother has a very mean neighbor.

Maddie,

Hmm, that is a tough situation. Here's the excerpt from posted deed restrictions:

Persons under the age of 19 years may visit for a maximum of 30 days per year but may not reside permanently in any dwelling.

You are caught in between.... your child isn't really visiting grandma (i.e. staying 24 hrs a day) and certainly isn't a permanent resident. But, they must consider each day's 3 hr stay a visit....probably not a violation of the intent of this provision but does sound like a violation of the letter of "the law". Have you or your mother sat down and spoken with a rep from the community standards/deed compliance office? If your only contact so far is with the Community Watch person, it might be worth it to go to the source. The other option, of course, is for your mother to watch the child at your home in Lakeside Landings.

Sorry, as far as this issue goes TV can "stuff it". I'm sure the intent is to discourage the full time residence of families with children. If I want to have my grandchild for few hours each day, I will do so, covenant or no. So "sue me"!! Should make an interesting court case!:clap2:

I know you are not alone. Am certain that this is happening all over the villages. What about the grandchildren that are here all sumer. That surely is more than 30 days. Also the children and thier parents that are living with the Village resident. I feel sorry for your mom. Her neighbors are not very nice people. Am not sure what she can do about it. Would be interested in the outcome

I would think you could go get the baby an "in-area" guest pass...this allows them to use the amenities with the resident 365 days a year....not that the baby is going to use any of the amenities...but she would be "covered"!!!

SORRY BUT THEMS THE RULES .........YOU SIGN ON THE DOTTED LINE WHEN YOU BUY IN HERE THAT YOU WILL ABIDE BY THE BI-LAWS AND YOU HAVEN'T A LEG TO STAND ON IN COURT.........
OH YOU CAN FIGHT IT IN COURT BUT YOU'LL LOSE AND IT WILL COST YOU A TON OF MONEY....YOU ARE NOT THE FIRST PERSON ASKED TO LEAVE THE VILLAGES AND WON'T BE THE LAST....
THE POSITION OF THE VILLAGES IS "THIS IS A RETIREMENT COMM UNTIE AND NOT A DAY CARE " .

there is one village here that you can buy into and have all the children you want...but there is obviously someone that doesn't want children playing next to their retirement home ....and I'm not sure I blame them.....they have probably spent their life saving for for a wonderful , peaceful , place to live out their life's and not next to a school playground ....
I know this sounds harsh but thats exactly why those rules are in there ...

Sorry about the toes fumar

:popcorn: So it goes back and forth.

Got some more popcorn Bare? And I sure could use a Martini too. I feel like I have been to a war.
:popcorn:

I am sorry you are having this problem. Any problem with neighbors does not make life very pleasant.

What is the definition of "day"? Until that is determined, if it can ever be, there is no answer to the problem.

The Merriam-Webster online dictionary defines "day" as both time from night to night and 24 hours from midnight.

It seems to me the real problem is with how the rule is written. Chose the definition you need.

Good luck. Sometimes it is better to move rather than fight. Just one neighbor can make you miserable. We moved from a condo because of the condo commando. We lost $30,000, but we agree that it was the best lost $30,000 ever.

WOW,, what a conflict.

:agree::agree:I so agree Starflyte. You can complain and carry on and point out rules, but it never, never changes anything. I would move too. It isn't worth the angst.

I have one eye open and haven't had my coffee yet. I was thinking I was replying to Starflyte. I am sorry Gmoney. I am paranoid anymore.

This particular issue has been discussed many times and always becomes very emotional. It reminds me of the "three-pet" controversary.

The Villages is an adult community and many residents don't want children around on a daily basis. Others residents feel strongly that they are entitled to spend as much time as they want with visiting grandchildren. I don't think there is an answer that will satisfy both "sides".

Just a suggestion. If you moved to the "family" subdivision in Buffalo Ridge adjacent to TV, your mother could day care there with no problems. As Starflyte said, sometimes it is better to move rather than to fight.

My mother has met with TV about this and of course they can stand by the deed restriction. She swears that when they bought here they were not correctly explained this restriction but that's realestate sales people for you! All a bunch of crooks. I know it's their responsibility to read carefully but we all know how things can be "left out" in order to make a sale.
I had thought living around TV would have been so much better. But now I see an area with no jobs that is being run by a bunch of jerks. If TV is going to keep growing you need younger people to be here to do the work. I hear you all complaining that their isn't good service or any good manangers aound here. Well why would those talented young people come here? The school system is a attraction but what about everything else?

my mother survived cancer twice and no one is going to tell her how many times she can see her grandchild!

I know a lot of people out their that could be in the same boat at any time because you always have grandchildren visiting. All it takes is one miserable neighbor to ruin everything.

For all those that say...Oh that's the rules....give me a break!

i'm confused,
my young grandchildren temporaryily lived near orlando for a year back in 2006 and when i specifically asked the rec center guest pass staff if i needed to keep track of how many days they visited me in tv and used guest passes with me or their parents i was told there were no restrictions on the number of days they could visit. as long as they didn't "reside" here
so rules are apparently open to iinterpretation and/or change over time or in individual situations. i would seriously guestion if a 3 hour a day visit violates the deed restrictions.

How is "day" defined?
 

If folks want to nitpick, you can say your daughter is staying 30 days, 3 hours at a time.

A day is 24 hours. 30 days is 720 hours. It would take 240 days at 3 hours a day or 48 weeks of 5 days a week to use the allowed time.

Hmmm, that just might cover it.

But who's counting, VK2

(p.s. Are we really that concerned what goes on inside other people's homes?)

Let’s see, if my neighbor has 5 grandchildren of various ages. Parents of 3 are in their late twenties and the parents of the other 2 are in their mid thirties and they moved to the area so they could enjoy all the benefits The Villages had to offer and of course to be near Mom and Dad.

Grandma and Grandpa watch two of the children everyday from 8am till 5pm while their parents are at work. The other three grandchildren are in school, they are at Grandma and Grandpa’s from 3pm till 6pm while their parents work.

They really enjoy The Villages, riding their bikes and skateboards up and down the streets, playing ball outside in Grandma and Grandpa’s yard and of course in my yard too, since there are no fences and they don’t know where one yard ends and the other begins.

The kids and grandkids also love spending time at the pools and other recreational facilities.

What a deal! They get to enjoy all the amenities and lifestyle, for the single amenity fee paid by Grandma and Grandpa.

What happened to my Retirement Community?
:sad::cus::rant-rave::swear:

Fumar:agree: The whole point of a 55+ community is to not have children around us every day. I LOVE my granddaughter, but wouldn't think of having her around every day, or feel that my neighbors who bought into the over 55 lifestyle should have my granddaughter impose on their rights.

Some humans forget that "Their Rights end at the end of their noses" and anything beyond that distance affects "someone else's rights."

I'm not going to worry about stepping on someones toes if their actions invade my rights.

I think there is a VERY easy answer to this...Lakeside Landing is a beautiful community and has their own amenities. You made a good choice for your family. It is right across the street from TV's....you may come visit your mom at anytime as anyone is allowed to visit. I am sure you can easily prove that you are NOT living in TV's....but just visiting....you can see Mom daily.

However, for the sake of keeping peace....and actually for the comfort of the baby...wouldn't it be easier for Grandma to come to your place...all of her things are their....and it is only for a couple of hours each day....

My experience with kids in TV's has been very mixed...we stay at our non-villages place MOST of the time because there is a level of respect we need to keep for the folks that have bought here and there are rules....some people don't mind at all and in fact don't even know when we are at TV's home....our daughter doesn't really make a lot of noise...perhaps a baby does...but really I can't imagine that is the case....we have made it work and our neighbors ALL know our situation....we have been very honest and open with those we needed to....

Tha hard part is that there are many new communities outside of TV's that are advertising to families to come live close to Grandma and GRandpa...which is wonderful....my parents just bought here so they could be close to us....but what good does it do if we can't spend time with them.

This is a VERY hard issue....there are many young seniors moving here that want those grandbabies moving close....they want to see them as often as possible...

I would imagine that the "30 day" rule would mean a 24 hour period...playing and sleeping over and visiting from out of town....we also have a in-area guest passes that allow family to visit 365 days a year....an infant would not need a guest pass but may need one to "cover"

This again is a hard issue....what is the most important thing to fight for....grandma babysitting three hours a day....for free...because she wants to OR fighting with all the other residents in the neighborhood....

I hate to say it....but it seems simple to me....give Grandma some money each week for gas....or get a street legal cart....easy enough....

Sorry to not really be on your side...just think at some point we need ot try to make it work for everyone!!!!

Sorry to be so long winded...this happens sometimes with me!

:agree:

Very well put.

Not ALL Real Estate People
 

I don't want to stir the pot but feel obliged to comment on the remark above, "real estate people are all a bunch of crooks". I am a real estate person and I spend a great deal of time working with and helping people find their perfect home, seeing that their needs are taken care of, and making buying or selling their home a less stressful, happier experience. I am not a crook and I am proud of what I do to help my buyers and sellers. As I said, I don't want to start a storm here, and I am generally a very benign non-controversial poster but had defend my profession and the many many honest, decent, and caring agents I know.

Ouma,

I agree with you. I was a Realtor in Florida, and I am neither a crook or a liar.

Why is it always someone else's fault that an individual did not understand the rules and didn't read the Covenants. Of the thousands of people that bought in TV the majority abide by and understand the Covenants. That is what makes The Villages such a wonderul place to live.


:agree::agree::agree::agree:

Baby sitting
 

I have to agree what is the big deal.What gets me is residents can have up to 8 adults and 12 young childens with guest passes at one time and even have one year passes for all those people and none of them pay any fee. I had my brother in law stop by was going to go shoot pool with him and told no ID no entry. He lives in the tricounty area and he can't get one yet the people with the year pass can live in the area.If 1000 residents had 20 passes out for the year that would be 20000 extra people using the amenities we as residents pay for.I guess one little kid for three hours really isn't all that big a deal. After all the child is not spending the night and if it is under a certain gae no ID pass is required. Just forget it and let it. I now go elswhere and play pool. Tell the people next to your mother to go (well you know)

Wow, what a sweeping generalization! And very demeaning.

I agree with Halle and Ouma. As a former realtor I am neither a liar or a crook. And I always had the best interests of my clients at heart.

Thanks EJP!!! All true and from the heart....I should have mentioned the real estate comment too...Maddie....we have met and you seem to be a nice guy....but I know this broke your heart...and your mom's I am sure! Sometimes when we get really mad we tend to balme others....or other circumstances...hard not too....but my best guess is...only from experience....that when someone is buying a home here in TV's....they are on cloud nine...the agent could say anything...we don't always hear it....

I know your family loves it here...breathe...think again about different ways to make this work....I know it is do-able....it's worth it in the long run....for everyone....baby, Grandma...you and your wife....

3 hours a day....very do-able....very worth it!!!

Love to your family....

I do not see the violation here.

Let me get this straight...someone has reported your mother because she is taking care of your infant daughter in her house for 3 hours a day during the work week. How is that a violation...she isn't living there, she doesn't use the amenities?????

Someone has nothing better to think about in that neighborhood.

I have to admit that if my neighbor turned their house into the family day care center and that I was expected to "enjoy" the fact that their grandkids were now playing all the time on my property or out in front of my house, my first question would be to myself - why did I move into a 55+ community if it meant I had to dodge kids all time?

Yeah, that can sound heartless and insensitive. I have grandchildren, too. I just don't want to be their babysitter. They are their parents' responsibility - not mine nor my neighbors.

I accept the fact that I just don't have the stamina to deal with kids the way I did when I was in my 20's, 30's and 40's. If that makes me a demon to some, so be it.

As neighbors we have to tolerate each other, and that's a good thing. However, when it means that I have to tolerate someone's grandkids day-in-and-day-out until they grow up or their parents hit the lottery, that's a tough one. They may be someone's your pride and joy, but that feeling may not be universal.

Helping the kids out on the short is one thing, and neighbors can handle that. Turning the neighborhood into DayCareWorld is another. If half the people on a street did that, the resale business would be quite brisk.

Yes, there are covenants, and we all are responsible to read them and understand them before we sign the paper. That's OUR responsibility, not the broker who coordinated the sale. If folks don't understand what they're signing, they should get a lawyer, and if they don't want to spend the money for one, that too is their problem.

Yeah, it "may take a village" to some to raise kids, but I'm hoping that doesn't include the village where I reside in TV.

This is a retirement community......people pay high prices for homes to retire at the villages...they could have gone to 100's of other retirement villages but they chose to pay more and live here ....Now why do you suppose they did that ..........Its because of the Rules here that are made to protect peoples investment.....If I had the problem of kids everyday at the neighbors yelling and screaming playing in the street and yards , I would sue someone to stop it . I signed the rules to buy here. In return the villages had to agree that the rules would be rigorously enforced ....Many families have been forced to move from here under threat of legal action......
And don't try to push the envelope, Thirty days means thirty days , they are calendar days whether your here 24 hours or 24 minutes.....
Abide by the rules and this will remain a wonderful place , If rules are allowed to be broken then this place will be no different than any other community in Florida And the Bulk of us will have to look for somewhere else.

evil eye fumar

Fumar and SteveZ

I agree I do not want a daycare next door or children running around the neighborhood all the time.However, I do enjoy hearing little voices when the neighbors and my grandkids visit from time to time.

But one infant inside someones home...please who is that disturbing...what amenities is it using.No doubt less annoying than the people who walk their dog on others lawns. When the child is out of infancy and more independent then the parents will have to make other arrangements.

Well, I know this is a touchy subject but from my perspective if I wanted to live in a multi generational environment then I'd stay where I am. Don't get me wrong, I love our neighborhood. It is made up of a some middle aged singles, young families and octogenarians. All lovely folks. All will be welcome in our home in TV. But when I purchase my last home I prefer it to be in community of 55+ folks.

Let’s see, if my neighbor has 5 grandchildren of various ages. Parents of 3 are in their late twenties and the parents of the other 2 are in their mid thirties and they moved to the area so they could enjoy all the benefits The Villages had to offer and of course to be near Mom and Dad.

Grandma and Grandpa watch two of the children everyday from 8am till 5pm while their parents are at work. The other three grandchildren are in school, they are at Grandma and Grandpa’s from 3pm till 6pm while their parents work.

What a deal! They get to enjoy all the amenities and lifestyle, for the single amenity fee paid by Grandma and Grandpa.

What happened to my Retirement Community?


Holy cow Sydney...do you know how ridiculous you sound? Stop adding to the facts I've shared. It is absurd you think that the forum members would follow that ridiculous math. Look, this forum is for communicating and generating ideas - not for illogical statistics. Come on Sydney, your second (2nd!!) post on this forum cant be like that. Get to know your neighbors. These are people that have "been there and done that'. Otherwise, point taken...I know this is a retirement community...that's why i have my family nearby...

I do not see the violation here.

Let me get this straight...someone has reported your mother because she is taking care of your infant daughter in her house for 3 hours a day during the work week. How is that a violation...she isn't living there, she doesn't use the amenities?????

Thanks Beadie. I appreciate this. My daughter is almost 6 months old. We are doing the best we can. We schedule our life around work and family. We are financially sound-minded and like others, are caught up in desparate financial times. I invite anyone to meet with us and produce the judgement that we abusing The Villages community. My strength is my family, and I believe in it.

Fumar and SteveZ...come on...why must you build this up more than what it is. Please read my post carefully. I am talking 3 days a week, for awhile until I can put my 6 month old daughter in daycare. Just a little longer. Please understand the infrastructure that holds The Villages together, is slowly building. Almost there...Sorry salespeople are not bad at all, please accept my apologies. i misspoke.

I think that is the reason most folks chose TV Punky. I agree.:agree:

It certainly isn't that children annoy me, just the opposite, I adore them and feel protective of them, and sometimes ONLY if their parents aren't watching them carefully then that is stressful. I just love the relaxed feeling of being among my age peers.

Maddie:

I am curious why you never responded when asked why your Mom couldn't watch your child at your home. BTW I am still up North and we are watching my grandson today.

Again, this may seem insensitive and inconsiderate to you, but the financial problems of my children should not be that of my neighbors.

These same covenants that limit stays of visitors control many facets of life within TV. There are many I'm not too pleased with, and they do impact what I bought, where I bought it, and if I would buy at all. I'm stuck with them just as much as your mother, and don't expect that they should be ignored because I'm unique. It's my job to adapt, not the community's to adapt to my idiosyncracies or personal issues.

Concessions work both ways. Another poster suggested the transporting of your mother to your house instead of uprooting the child. Perhaps the additional round-trip is inconvenient, but it does appear to alleviate the covenant problem.

Now if it seems we're just a bunch of stuffy old fossils who don't care, That too is shortsighted. We old fossils have worked our entire lives, put up with as many if not more "inconveniences" as the young families of today and managed to get our kids to the point where they were supposed to be independent of us (finally!) so we could get a break from being constantly responsible for them until the day we drop dead. After almost 5 decades of pulling the plow so that my kids had a leg up, I expect them to take care of their basic life issues, catastrophic situation being the exception.

We have a community with certain restrictions for residency so that we all can enjoy what we've got left. We all knew the restrictions when we bought and accepted them as such. Should conditions change where we cannot fulfill our end of the bargain, then it's time we leave TV for other digs. That's the deal, regardless of what anyones kids (mine included) need on the short-or-long term.

SoSounds right to me.

Sweetie and I would love it if you would live next door to us. You sound like such a good person.

only sensible response
 

I am with you on this, I can not believe this thread. I wish i knew just what the real story is with this person's neighbors. Probably someone who can't see their grandkids and doesn't want anyone else to either!:cus:

Well Maddie, I have owned a home in The Villages since 2007, and do feel this could affect me in the future. As stated by you, the forum is for “communicating and generating ideas” which is exactly what I was doing and the number of posts I have is irrelevant. Additionally, I am one of “these” people and have “been there and done that”. You were also asked why you never responded when asked why your Mom couldn't watch your child at your home. :(:cus:

As I sit here, my 4 1/2 year old granddaughter is down stairs coloring and watching cartoons. There are five young teens playing catch out in the street. I don't mind them being there at all and there are no rules in our 200 unit condo community to stop them. BUT!:cus: when I move to the Villages it is because the covenants are in place so that I DON'T have to have the kids around me all the time! That's the whole reason for over 55 communities! If I felt that the rules would not be enforced there wouldn't be a reason to move to TV, I could just stay here.