Which is more energy efficient--frame or block/cement constructed new home?
 

We are spending the month of May at The Villages. As we look around for a home style and price range that suits us, there are many factors to consider---location, new or pre-owned, type of construction, size, floor plan, number of bedrooms, etc. When deciding on type of construction, many factors come into play, but which are more energy efficient? The frame construction or the block/cement construction?

frame hands down

The framed constructed houses have a higher R rating in the walls than the concrete block houses (nominally R-11 vs. R-5) but it probably doesn't make a significant difference in the HVAC costs. Typically, windows account for most of the heat gain/heat loss in Manual J calculations and those are essentially the same for both types of construction. Attic insulation is the same. You could possibly make the case that the concrete block houses are "tighter" and will save some energy via less outside air exchanges but that would be speculation. I have also noticed that same sized framed and block houses have the same tonnage of AC so the required heat load calculations came out very similar.

Appears that whether it is a frame or block home should not be the make or break the deal element of the eqaution.

We have a 1550sf frame and 1950 stucco. There are months that heat or cool is the same. Even given the size difference. Summer the stucco is sometimes less, since we are not here in summer they are both set same temp

I have a friend whose late husband was a home inspector (to about 2013) in Florida. She is still very involved with Habitat for Humanity. When I was thinking about building a home in TV in 2012, they encouraged me to build a stucco home if I could afford it.

We went with a block/stucco home as we were concerned about durability during a potential Florida storm (hurricane or tornado). This was our major concern, energy efficiency was secondary.

And the answer here is that no one has a definitive answer. Suggest you Google and read the research carefully. My uneducated guess is that in this climate , walls are not the critical factor.

But in a hurricane, the roof and windows are just as vulnerable.

For that reason to have a house with no roof makes little difference.

At that point we've evacuated and called the insurance Co.

The insulation in a concrete walled homes is very thin or minimal like 1".

It was mentioned the HVAC's in both are sized the same, that may be because the price difference is so small between two sized units is minimal and or better discounts buying 100 of one size vs 50 50

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Block is the way to go in Florida. Higher maintenance but well worth for how it looks.

RickeyD - for my education, I'd be interested in knowing what causes higher maintenance costs for block homes. Thanks.

It doesn't work that way. In FL, Manual J calculations are required and systems must be sized accordingly. The next size up is 1/2 ton which would be 15% larger when going from 3 to 3.5 tons. Regardless, I just looked up 2 very similar houses, one framed and one block, in my area and the Manual J heat load was 4% higher in the block home, which had 4% more square footage under air.

They have to be painted. Cracks can form and need to be caulked.

the textured surface catches more dust dirt etc too

Interesting

How about trying an IR meter on the walls

Would like to see some justification to the claim that block and poured are more expensive to maintain.

now this is just a guess, poured is less maintenance, due the fact that it is one piece, I believe it's called monolithic.

So you don't have hundreds of seams like block.

I've been in many homes installing filters and I see block wall with seams/cracking etc. If it's inside I assume it's outside.

When those cracks aren't repaired timely water damage and maybe pathways fro termites to roof????

If I were going concrete I look to poured.

You know in time the stucco will need to be repainted, not sure how many years.

By the way painters charge here I guess 3-5,000 dollars

I agree with this post. Have lived in poured Villa for 6 years- no maintenance costs (yet).

Who cares. It is the total heat gain (and moisture gain via air exchanges) of the structure that matters.

Our first designer was concrete block and stucco. We now have a frame/vinyl designer home and for the reasons Jimbo has pointed out in this post and others. Its a matter of choice, looks, utility and cost.

Siding can last a long time, depending on the quality. I have no idea about the grade of siding used by the Developer. The block/stucco houses are not originally painted with the highest quality of paint plus there may be some issues with how soon they were painted after applying stucco. The Villages, in their new home disclaimer, indicates that you may need to paint in a few years. We will see - ours still looks like new after a couple of years.

Either is good.
 

1. I don't have an insight on the relative costs of heating and air conditioning houses in TV according to the type of construction, but I suspect that the difference in terms of cost is insignificant.

2. The Villages developer claims that the houses they build, both stucco and frame, will withstand the same level of hurricane force winds. In addition, TV is so far inland that it is likely that a hurricane striking Florida will diminish to the level of a Tropical Storm before arriving here. The winds diminish as they travel over land.

3. My experience, after having homes in five different states, from the snowy east to the deep south, has been that heat exchange through windows can be a major factor in the cost of heating or cooling the home.

This can be mitigated by:

a. Taking into account the exposure to direct sun of windows in the house when shopping for a house.

b. Installing insulated windows if the house does not have them.

c. Installing awnings to protect windows from direct sunlight.

d. Adjusting window blinds, plantation shutters, etc. to prevent direct sunlight from shining on furniture and flooring at various times of the day which adds heat to the interior of the house.

4. I personally prefer the appearance of stucco, but it brings with it the necessity to repaint periodically. Also, as the ground settles over the years, cracks appear occasionally which must be mended and repainted.

In summary: I would not base my home shopping decision on whether the house is constructed of stucco or frame.

Reply
 

We purchased a block home because termites love wood and thought block would give us more protection.

It may make different in tornado which usually spins off hurricanes. Concrete vs tooth picks? Even if the roof is gone the wall are there on concrete / block home.

Radio reception for am is near impossible in concrete/ block. But due to less wood termites less likely if you had the roof frame sprayed.

Pros and cons either way IMO if I like one or the other and the price was right I would buy either

Have you looked in your attic?

all tasty wood, what about your interior walls

wooded furring strips on exterior walls.

I think you're in for a shock if you think your safe, inspect and treat as needed.

Same on frame built

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hard to live in home without the roof and everything else sucked out of it.

Also I read that those block walls have cracks after such an event, so they me be standing but compromised.

show me a house that was sprayed?

even if it was that lasts only 5 years, you can't do it again unless you remove all the insulation........

Bottom line either house is a rebuild for the insurance companies.


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What ever you buy, invest in additional attic insulation. That's where you have the majority of heat gain, cooling lose. I have a stucco, it seems really tight, no air infiltration. Can't speak for framed construction.

You are correct regarding the attic insulation. May I add that block construction provides a very quiet inside environment from outside noise.

As long as either choice lasts the rest of our lives, that's all that really matters.

Is a poured cement roof out of the question?

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I've lived in 5 different block homes in Fla. since 1953 and am now in a frame house. I notice that this frame house is like a Thermos bottle. Once it gets cold inside it stays that way for many days unless we let the outside warm air in. That tells me that the insulation is very good compared to the block homes in the past.
The siding in this home gets pressure cleaned once a year for $50. The block home needed sealed and painted about every 5 years for a couple thousand.
I don't feel quite as secure if a major hurricane hits though. Don't believe that we are so far inland that a storm would weaken to a tropical storm. We had hurricane Wilma hit us in Boynton Beach Fla. It came ashore on the west coast of Fla. and GAINED strength coming across the widest part of Fla. to the east coast, about 180 miles. It was so large that it hung out over the Gulf and Atlantic and got stronger not weaker. We are in the narrowest part of Fla. and although it would be very rare it could happen.

I think block homes would have a lot more mold growing between the insulation and the block since there will be all kinds of temperature variation there. I've seen it up north and would think it would be the same here.

Hurricanes lose strength over land.
 

I have never heard of a hurricane that did not diminish in wind strength after making landfall. That is also true of Wilma.

The official NOAA report on Wilma states that it struck Florida's west coast with maximum sustained winds of 105 knots (Cat 3.) After crossing the state, it emerged on the east coast with maximum sustained winds of 95 knots (Cat 2.)

The actual quote is: "Wilma strengthened over the southeastern Gulf of Mexico and its winds reached about 110 kt as it approached Florida. Maximum sustained winds were estimated to be near 105 kt (category 3 intensity) when landfall of the center occurred in southwestern Florida near Cape Romano around 1030 UTC 24 October. Continuing to accelerate and now moving at a forward speed of 20 to 25 kt, the hurricane crossed the southern
Florida peninsula in 4.5 hours, with the center emerging into the Atlantic just southeast of Jupiter around 1500 UTC. Maximum winds had decreased to near 95 kt (category 2) during the crossing of Florida."

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/data/tcr/AL252005_Wilma.pdf

Highest sustained wind speed in nearby Orlando for Wilma was 35 knots.

Wilma did strengthen again after it got out over open water.

Note that I am not saying that a hurricane could never penetrate to The Villages, but that hurricanes lose strength when they move over land.

We previously owned a block home in TV, and we currently have a frame home. Our current home seems to be more energy efficient.

We have a poured concrete Villa. Now approaching 6yrs. Sealed and touched up a few very small, almost minute cracks after first year. Check around the outside walls every two or three mo. Only two new occurrences to date.
Have pressure cleaned spouting and driveway etch but not walls. The walls don't appear dirty and my thinking is that pressure cleaning them might cause more problems than necessary (chipping. And water infiltration).
Am quite pleased with condition of the outside walls to date .

My husband and I owned a Construction Company and did home development for 20 years here in Florida before moving west to Utah. (too bad we didn't know about CDDs, I guess we weren't as smart as the Morse family!) We built both block and frame. But when we built our own homes, in whihc we were to live, we always built frame. The reasons mentioned thus far are correct. They can and do put more insulation into the frame homes. They vinyl siding used here has basically a lifetime finish.

Stucco is beautiful, but in the Florida sun it fades something fierce. It will need to be repainted, it is only a matter of how long you choose to wait to paint. The cracks are a fact of life with concrete. It will crack, and it will need to be patched.

After Hurricane Andrew ( I think it was Andrew) the building codes for the state were changed to provide for greater structural strength in the roof and the way in which the roof is attached to the structure.

Both block and frame are rated the same with regard to withstanding hurricane force winds. In some ways the frame is actually better in that it will have some flexibility and can sway instead of collapsing.

No one should really worry about the construction here in The Villages. It is actually done to very high standards.

The differences in Block vs Frame are relatively minor and should be made based on personal preference.

We chose frame, again, of course. I am happy to know that we will never have to repaint. Edgar comes every 6 months and does the exterior wash and it looks like new again. I am all about minimal maintenance in the home in which we plan to live for the rest of our lives.

HIGHLY OUT OF THE QUESTION :MOJE_whot:

The weight would be your issue,, weighing in roughly at 2 tons per yard. structurally there would be issues,,, A lightweight mix would have to be used to pump such a thing,,, then there would be issues forming it on the house. Cost would be very high also.

If I where building another house, it would be formwall all the way. Or as known in The Villages poured wall. The walls are pumped solid all the way around. The only way to go. Or out of the villages a Poly Wall.

But window upgrades and insulation upgrades will save you money.

But I think the OP has gotten alittle off hand. :spoken:

My previous home was built with ICF (Insulated Concrete Forms). The forms are made with several inches of foam on each side and it serves as the insulation. The core is poured concrete with rebarb. The entire wall structure is poured in one day. Drywall is directly attached to the foam insulation. I have seen one commercial building in The Villages being constructed with ICF.

That is the way to go. Most of the commercial building here are block or Tilt Panels. That is basically the same as poured wall.
Just the walls are poured on a massive leveled out bed of concrete, then lifted into place as one unit.

What's good enough for The 3 Little Pigs, is good enough for me.