Water Usage Mystery - Any ideas?
 

We have been living in the Villages for 3 years. Our early drinking water usage was between 3500-4500 units a month. Recent bills have progressed to over 30,000 units a month.

Irrigation concurrently has gone from 13,000 -20,000 to over 45,000 this month.

This is what we have established with the Sumter Water Co. We do not have a pool or hot tub.

When we are not watering, showering, washing dishes or clothes, the meter is totally stopped.

We water 8 zones once a week for 30 minutes. When we are not watering, the meter is stopped. The watering computer is correctly set.

Water Co. tested irrigation meter...said its ok. They are coming back next week to test potable water.

Woman on phone suggested it was our problem because she felt meters were ok. I suggested that if the meters are not turning when there is no demand, wouldn't that suggest the problem is from the meter back. She said maybe I had a jiggly toilet handle. I diplomatically advised that my toilets were working properly.

I intend to go back to the Water Co. on Monday and follow-up with warranty (even though its expired) for some clues from builder (I hope).

Anybody out there have any ideas or similar experiences. Thank you

If the problem was from the street side of the meter, you wouldn't see it on your bill.
If your meter is "OK", then you have a major leak. Finding it is the trick. If you bring in the bill from a plumber, the water dept should (hopefully) reduce your bill to the average usage prior to the problem being noticed.

I mostly agree with KayakerNC, if the leak is on the street side of your meter, it will never register on your meter. Obviously, this is not the case so you should quickly invest in a licensed plumber to check your system and find the leak (and repair the leak). I'm not sure how much sympathy you'll get in these tight times on getting a water bill reduction from the water company but nothing ventured - nothing gained. Give it a shot.

Just to give you an idea....
 

roughly....our 45,000 gallon swimming pool filled in 30 hours with two water hoses in it....that's a lot of water in a short time (30 X 17 X 6 feet)....

If you are able to bring the meter to a stop with everything off, it raises the question of how could there be a leak?

Did the water company come out and physically check the meter?

BTK
PS I have no idea where my meter is...where was yours located?

I have a possible solution to your problem.

Do you know that your irrigation controller has three run programs and then three more sub programs in each of those three for a total of 9 possible programs cycles. If for some reason those got set to various run times, your water consumption will go through the roof.

This is a very real possibility. A good friend of mine had exactly the same problem as you are having and I checked his control box. It was set to run for 30 and 40 minutes in each of the sub programs. I then set it to run in only one program and it worked fine for a while. In about five months, it did the same thing all over again and when I checked it, the sub programs had reappeared. ?????????

Please check your controller and if you don't know how to see the sub programs, find somebody who does, and I'll bet your problem will be solved.

30 x 17 x 6 = 3,060 cubic feet x 7.5 gal/cf = 22,950 Gal

Cabo, Talk Host may have nailed your problem. Been there, done that!

Here is the link to a thread that I posted some time ago about an irrigation system issue that we had:

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...ad.php?t=16658

Yours is a completely different issue in that for you something changed in the course of the time that the house existed. In our case, the problem was there from day 1 of the construction of the house, which initially was occupied by a frail, elderly couple and owned (and presumably bills paid) by a family trust until purchased by us when the house was 3-1/2 years old.

The only reason I'm mentioning this is to suggest that you NOT expect any kind of support or remediation from the utility company or, for that matter, any official Villages department. Their mantra is 'one-year warranty' and in fact only a one-month warranty on the irrigation system. (Imagine the challenge of figuring out that there may be a leak when you don't get the first water bill till after a month!) It was from an employee of the utility company that I learned that our enormous irrigation water bills existed from the day the house was built. However, once she notified her higher-ups about this, suddenly she--and everyone else--got much more circumspect. I can only hope that this woman didn't get in trouble for her initial honesty....

The meters are in the ground on the front lawn with a cover over them. If you live in an area where potable water is separate from irrigation water (as in our case), one meter is on one side of the lawn and the other on the other. There are two meters in each location: one for your house and one for the house next door.

Thank you so much for the responses. Talk Host...I believe you nailed one part of the problem. I checked the irrigation controller whose programming I am familiar with and you nailed it....a second program was in play mirroring program 1. I am relatively certain I did not intentionally or unintentionally enter it. That is certainly a part of the problem.

Billethkid, the meters are located under removable steel plates about 14X14. The irrigation meter is on the left side of the front lawn and the potable water meter is on the right. Both say potable but one is definately irrigation.You can lift the lid with a heavy screwdriver and I have 2 meters in each. One is mine and one is my neighbors. They are very easy to read. I will be taking daily readings until I get it resolved with the water company or Sloan's, the original irrigation installers.

An interesting aside from a friend in Briar Meadow, Marion County tells me his water bill is not separated into potable and irrigation.

Thanks for the math work...it was helpful identifying the scope of the problem.

TOTV is the greatest. The help and information you offered in almost immediate responses was better than my dealings with the water company and my "jiggly" toilet. Thanks from an appreciative poster.

I'm Confused.
 

I don't understand. We have ours set so that different zones go off at different times. Is that wrong??? Does that mean our bill is higher? I'm lost on this. Please explain. :shrug:

Cabo35, the older homes (usually north of 466) do not have two water metering systems. All water goes through one meter. Thus your friend in Marion County was being accurate. As a water conservation measure, newer homes (mostly south of 466) have an irrigation system/meter and a potable system/meter.

Why do you have it set to go off at different times? They should all run in sequence on the same night. (when zone 1 shuts down, zone 2 should start and so on). Most people use "program 1" "setting a". All the others should be "off"

The only reason to have other settings "on" would be if you have a new area of grass or a garden or a newly planted tree that should get extra watering more than once a week.

Since this is all new to me, on average, what should be an average monthly water usage for drinking and irrigation? (South of 466, corner lot, designer)

Well, the irrigation water increase may be due to the additional cycles from the control unit, but how does one explain the huge jump in potable water usage from 4,000 to 30,000?

Water Leak
 

One thing to check. Don't use your toilet(s) for an hour or so. Then take off the tank cover(s). If the water line is up to the overflow tube, your toilet valve is not shutting off completely. It should never be higher than 1 inch below the top. Change the valve.

Also, some irrigation valves don't turn off all the way and keep water dribbling from the heads. Check at the sprinkler heads or... Remove the Irrigation Manifold Cover and use a stick to the ear or a stethoscope to hear if water is running in one of the zones. Listen to the pipe just after the valve (device that has two wires attached to it). Valves can be cleaned, replaced or adjusted to stop the leak. They are susceptible to leaking when the temperature changes drastically (like now).

Also, if you are trying to see if there is a water leak. Check the exact reading of the meter including the spinning dial. Don't use any water in the house. Come back 15 minutes later. The reading should be exactly the same, and the spinning dial should not have moved.

One irrigation zone sprays 1000 gallons per hour (about $4.50 here).

Don't think the Water Dept. will discount your bill! They will just tell you, get it fixed by a qualified plumber. If you want to make payments over a few months, they'll let you do that with no service charge - but you have to pay for every drop you used (or leaked).

Skip

Also..don't use those clorox tabs in your toilet tank. They really do destroy the rubbery parts of the flapper and the toilet will run.

Flapper
 

Good point. If the flapper valve leaks, the toilet will "refill" periodically and run for 15 seconds or so.

Skip

BTW, I think my aunt was a flapper back in the 20s. :1rotfl:

FYI - your sprinklers can easily use twice as much water as they were designed to distribute if the internal gaskets/seals are worn. The water can gush out from the bottom of the pop up sprinklers and it is readily visible when they are running. The repair kits are inexpensive ($ 2 or so) and are not difficult to install - or hire out for repair.

Its all here:
http://www.thevillageswaterwisdom.com/HowMuch.pdf

Thanks for all the information and suggestions. You have made this thread a seminar on Villages water usage and troubleshooting.

Sloan's came today tested entire irrigation system and replaced 5 faulty heads. They confirmed there were no underground leaks. Their bill was $140.... IMO a good investment. Still waiting for the water company to test potable water meter. Talk Host's point on program setting and the possible inadvertant dual start times seems to be best explanation for irrigation overuse. When I mentioned it to a representative from the water company, she said there have been some occurences of multiple programs and asked me about possible power surges or spikes that could be suspect. I don't know enough about this to confirm that possibility but it sounded like they have had the issue before.

I have done my own meter readings everyday and usage is consistently normal with no evidence of leaks. I will let you know if the problem resolves.

Thank you again. TOTV is the greatest.

When we bought our house, the irrigation system was using in the neighborhood of 30,000 gallons a month. That's what caught my eye prompted me to go to the utility company, and it was there that the employee confirmed (1) that that 30,000 should have been between 4,000 and 5,000 for our size lot; and (2) that the 30,000 (give or take) was consistent from the time the house was built, caused, we later learned, by an irrigation line underground that not only had no sprinkler but didn't even have the elbow to which a sprinkler should have been attached.

If usage jumped suddenly from 4,000 to 30,000, I would suspect a broken-off sprinkler head somewhere, the consequence of which would be the water running below the surface and immediately sinking into our sandy soil, thus not making itself visible. If this is the case, one of the sprinkler zones should have diminished pressure, and this would be obvious. Try running one zone at a time to see; you can do this from the controller box in the garage. Good luck!

Toilet flapper
 

I have condo in a building where many owners do not use their units that much. I was working on the condo budget and was surprise at the water bill for the year. When I looked into the matter this is what I found. Many owners put some type of cleaner in the toilet tank. The lack of use allowed the cleaner to attack the flapper allowing water to leak and is never noticed.
To test your flapper. Remove any cleaner from the tank. Flush until the water is clear. Than put some food coloring in the tank. If the water in the toilet shows the color. Than it is time for a new flapper.

Fred