Talk of The Villages Florida

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-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Kiss our water goodbye (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/kiss-our-water-goodbye-197473/)

Warren Kiefer 06-11-2016 01:40 PM

Kiss our water goodbye
 
Apparently even though I have heard nothing but opposition to allowing a bottling company to bottle and sell our spring water, the Southwest Water management district plans to approve the permit request. How is it that we are placed on water restrictions and then the SWMD decides to let Azure pump between 500,000 and 1,000,000 gallons of spring water yearly from Sumter County ?? And to give that company a 20 year contract !!!

Rango 06-11-2016 02:32 PM

Don't worry, if we run out of water, you can buy it bottled.

pauld315 06-11-2016 02:32 PM

What are the current water restrictions in Sumter County ?

CWGUY 06-11-2016 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren Kiefer (Post 1239485)
Apparently even though I have heard nothing but opposition to allowing a bottling company to bottle and sell our spring water, the Southwest Water management district plans to approve the permit request. How is it that we are placed on water restrictions and then the SWMD decides to let Azure pump between 500,000 and 1,000,000 gallons of spring water yearly from Sumter County ?? And to give that company a 20 year contract !!!

:oops: Make that DAILY not yearly. :swear:

JoMar 06-11-2016 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauld315 (Post 1239513)
What are the current water restrictions in Sumter County ?

None that I know of.

HimandMe 06-11-2016 03:56 PM

Reply
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pauld315 (Post 1239513)
What are the current water restrictions in Sumter County ?

We can water only twice a week after midnight on certain defined days and for only so many minutes. Above this we have to pay really hefty prices even when our lawns and garden beds are now dark gold instead of green and in some places turning black. If there is so much water that that number of daily gallons can be pumped away...this is an insult to all of us to pay penalty prices when the grass is dying. Is there something we don't know that makes this acceptable?

Topspinmo 06-11-2016 08:10 PM

Your state, county, and city officials at there finest. Vote them out if you don't like their rulings. Remember they work for us. Send them message

Water is free for city, county's, and states so they can charge us for the use of it. I can see day when on land owner will not own the water beneath their land. Farmers will have to pay for pumping it from there own land, home owners on well water will have to pay for water. Remember your government, local and federal in the business of taxing and taxes will never be enough.

CWGUY 06-11-2016 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topspinmo (Post 1239614)
Your state, county, and city officials at there finest. Vote them out if you don't like their rulings. Remember they work for us. Send them message

Water is free for city, county's, and states so they can charge us for the use of it. I can see day when on land owner will not own the water beneath their land. Farmers will have to pay for pumping it from there own land, home owners on well water will have to pay for water. Remember your government, local and federal in the business of taxing and taxes will never be enough.

:ohdear: It is the Southwest Florida Water Management District that is approving the permit.

ColdNoMore 06-11-2016 08:31 PM

In the first place, why would you think it is "our" water?

A rudimentary understanding of aquifers, ground water and water tables would show that they can cover vast areas upon which many entities draw from.

In other words, using that same premise the water might "belong" to the people around Gainesville or Orlando. :shrug:

Warren Kiefer 06-11-2016 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauld315 (Post 1239513)
what are the current water restrictions in sumter county ?

i cannot recall a summer where i did not have limitations on watering my lawn. I was limited to only two days per week.

Warren Kiefer 06-11-2016 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldnomore (Post 1239621)
in the first place, why would you think it is "our" water?

A rudimentary understanding of aquifers, ground water and water tables would show that they can cover vast areas upon which many entities draw from.

In other words, using that same premise the water might "belong" to the people around gainesville or orlando. :shrug:

Apparently you think it is ok to let a bottling company bottle and sell the water from sumter county springs. In no way would i consider florida aquifer water as being a product of say Chicago or New York. What do you think would happen to the Villages if the Florida aquifers dried up. What I see would be a ghost town with homes worth nothing. Could this happen here, for the answer, I suggest you check into the lack of water in Southern California.

JoMar 06-11-2016 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HimandMe (Post 1239548)
We can water only twice a week after midnight on certain defined days and for only so many minutes. Above this we have to pay really hefty prices even when our lawns and garden beds are now dark gold instead of green and in some places turning black. If there is so much water that that number of daily gallons can be pumped away...this is an insult to all of us to pay penalty prices when the grass is dying. Is there something we don't know that makes this acceptable?

That's not a county restriction.....our water is supplied by the Central Sumpter Utility District which is one of 4 utility companies that serve TV. While there has been numerous discussions on if the water is expensive or not (depends where you came from) there is no way I would let any of my grass or landscaping die because someone stuck a sticker on my irrigation system. I have received letters in past because they claim I was uning too much water when they didn't know what I had planted, how the surrounding environment impacted the viability of the grass and plants, or what I even have. Their decisions is everyone has the same lot and the same landscaping. When the County or State impose restrictions then I will deal with it, or if the CSU agrees to reimburse me for the lost grass and landscaping we can discuss their opinion.

Warren Kiefer 06-11-2016 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWGUY (Post 1239525)
:oops: Make that DAILY not yearly. :swear:

Sorry, I meant daily.

Warren Kiefer 06-11-2016 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HimandMe (Post 1239548)
We can water only twice a week after midnight on certain defined days and for only so many minutes. Above this we have to pay really hefty prices even when our lawns and garden beds are now dark gold instead of green and in some places turning black. If there is so much water that that number of daily gallons can be pumped away...this is an insult to all of us to pay penalty prices when the grass is dying. Is there something we don't know that makes this acceptable?

Thank you for helping me try to explain the restrictions to another poster. I live on a corner lot and usually my gallons used are subjected to the tier three water rates. My water bill (only water) at one point was slightly over $200 for a month usage.

Warren Kiefer 06-11-2016 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topspinmo (Post 1239614)
Your state, county, and city officials at there finest. Vote them out if you don't like their rulings. Remember they work for us. Send them message

Water is free for city, county's, and states so they can charge us for the use of it. I can see day when on land owner will not own the water beneath their land. Farmers will have to pay for pumping it from there own land, home owners on well water will have to pay for water. Remember your government, local and federal in the business of taxing and taxes will never be enough.

Great idea !!!!

ColdNoMore 06-11-2016 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren Kiefer (Post 1239652)
Apparently you think it is ok to let a bottling company bottle and sell the water from sumter county springs. In no way would i consider florida aquifer water as being a product of say Chicago or New York.

Nope, you're wrong.

It doesn't 'belong' to Chicago/New York, any more than it 'belongs' to The Villages/Sumter County.

Any more than oil from Texas, belongs just to Texas.

Or coal from the Appalachian region belongs to West Virginia.

It ALL belongs to the United States of America and to be governed/utilized/sold/rented as local entities see fit. But that certainly doesn't mean it has to stay in 'one region.'

And I guess you missed my point of how aquifers/ground tables actually exist and their sizes.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren Kiefer (Post 1239652)
What do you think would happen to the Villages if the Florida aquifers dried up. What I see would be a ghost town with homes worth nothing. Could this happen here, for the answer, I suggest you check into the lack of water in Southern California.

Apples and rocks.

California depends on their water from rain & snow run-off, ours comes from being so low above sea level and having a high water table.

While both, of course, have to have precipitation from above to be viable.

And also, of course there are those who think that something is 'theirs' and don't believe that anyone else should have a right to it...even though the local government/companies prosper from harvesting those resources and selling them on the open market.

It's called capitalism.

I get your fear that what you think is yours might be going somewhere else, but let's say oil/natural gas producing states felt the same way and didn't want it going outside of their own region.

Exactly where in Florida do you think you will find enough crude oil/natural gas to fill the void, when those states that have it do what you're advocating (hoarding) we do with this water?

Unless you've figured out how to make water burn in internal combustion engines...methinks we're gonna get the shorter end of the stick.

rubicon 06-12-2016 05:24 AM

Water Is A Public Resource
 
Water is a public resource and should not be privatized. The Utility Companies have made a decision where they have no standing.

Utility companies should operate such that they are reimbursed for the costs to get water to consumers beyond that point perhaps setting aside reserves for emergency contingencies.

This is the second water bottling company to be given access to our water supply.

The entire issue is exacerbated because this utility charges based on a three tier system. They go to the trouble to determine what the average usage ought to be for a consumer and if that consumer uses more than that determined amount they let you know. I know some will say its a friendly reminder and a reminder that perhaps you have a leak or something that accounts for the increase. However, I view it differently and I wonder when the day will come when they no longer warn but demand. Perhaps with the advent installation of wireless (smart) meters .

Now add to all of this the fact that development continues at rapid pace without consideration of the impact such development has on our community and you have a recipe called cronyism. and they know no one will opposed them so they do because they can

Personal Best Regards:

graciegirl 06-12-2016 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubicon (Post 1239681)
Water is a public resource and should not be privatized. The Utility Companies have made a decision where they have no standing.

Utility companies should operate such that they are reimbursed for the costs to get water to consumers beyond that point perhaps setting aside reserves for emergency contingencies.

This is the second water bottling company to be given access to our water supply.

The entire issue is exacerbated because this utility charges based on a three tier system. They go to the trouble to determine what the average usage ought to be for a consumer and if that consumer uses more than that determined amount they let you know. I know some will say its a friendly reminder and a reminder that perhaps you have a leak or something that accounts for the increase. However, I view it differently and I wonder when the day will come when they no longer warn but demand. Perhaps with the advent installation of wireless (smart) meters .

Now add to all of this the fact that development continues at rapid pace without consideration of the impact such development has on our community and you have a recipe called cronyism. and they know no one will opposed them so they do because they can

Personal Best Regards:

Whether or not the development here by The Villages continues, development here and around here WILL continue by someone else. Florida is now the third most populous state in the union. People are moving to Florida in droves, and are moving here for all of the reasons we did. List of U.S. states and territories by population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If in fact the St.John's River Authority limits us in our watering, then this is mightily suspect. Either we have enough water or we don't. Either there is a ecological issue or there isn't. If "they" can levy fines to the CDD because of tree cutting, "they" should be able to stop unnecessary water leaving town.

I am confused.

EnglishJW 06-12-2016 07:26 AM

For starters, many of the points raised here seem - to me - to be very personal and somewhat selfish. Secondly, there are indeed water supplies that are owned by cities/states. Massive reservoirs in upstate New York for New York City being a prime example. Ultimately, I don't believe that we Villagers have any possibility of claiming any increased use of water is a threat while our development (TV) continues to grow at such a rapid pace. No more for anyone else but we want more for us?

outlaw 06-12-2016 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren Kiefer (Post 1239659)
Thank you for helping me try to explain the restrictions to another poster. I live on a corner lot and usually my gallons used are subjected to the tier three water rates. My water bill (only water) at one point was slightly over $200 for a month usage.

Don't take this the wrong way, but.....how can you justify wasting that much water! Please get your house in order before you claim the high moral ground. If you need that much water for your lot, you need to change your lot to a zero scape lot. TV allows this type of landscaping, and even encourages it. Do something where you can make a difference and set an example for your neighbors.

Warren Kiefer 06-12-2016 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnglishJW (Post 1239722)
For starters, many of the points raised here seem - to me - to be very personal and somewhat selfish. Secondly, there are indeed water supplies that are owned by cities/states. Massive reservoirs in upstate New York for New York City being a prime example. Ultimately, I don't believe that we Villagers have any possibility of claiming any increased use of water is a threat while our development (TV) continues to grow at such a rapid pace. No more for anyone else but we want more for us?

It is my understanding that the Villages has requested to be allowed to double their water allotment.

graciegirl 06-12-2016 07:33 AM

///

justjim 06-12-2016 09:09 AM

I recently received one of those "nice" letters from the VCCD regarding my water use the previous period. It is an understatement to say it was very expensive to keep my new landscaping alive when we received little rain during that period of time.

I know there is a difference between the water that went on my landscape and what we use to shower and drink. Still, 500,000 gallons a day going to bottled water is rather disturbing to me. My water useage this month will be near normal and within VCDD guidelines.

graciegirl 06-12-2016 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justjim (Post 1239766)
I recently received one of those "nice" letters from the VCCD regarding my water use the previous period. It is an understatement to say it was very expensive to keep my new landscaping alive when we received little rain during that period of time.

I know there is a difference between the water that went on my landscape and what we use to shower and drink. Still, 500,000 gallons a day going to bottled water is rather disturbing to me. My water useage this month will be near normal and within VCDD guidelines.

They came to our home and knocked on our door and very politely told us we had a leak, and we did. Underground a pipe was leaking a lot of water and money. TandD fixed it the same day.

manaboutown 06-12-2016 12:33 PM

This must be all about the money. Not only profits for the enterprise but taxes in various forms going to governmental entities. Otherwise why would this be allowed in an area where residents are under water restrictions?

ColdNoMore 06-12-2016 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnglishJW (Post 1239722)
For starters, many of the points raised here seem - to me - to be very personal and somewhat selfish. Secondly, there are indeed water supplies that are owned by cities/states. Massive reservoirs in upstate New York for New York City being a prime example. Ultimately, I don't believe that we Villagers have any possibility of claiming any increased use of water is a threat while our development (TV) continues to grow at such a rapid pace. No more for anyone else but we want more for us?

A voice of reason.

:BigApplause:.....:BigApplause:.....:BigApplause:

blueash 06-12-2016 01:07 PM

According to the Village Community Dev District website, section on high usage notification, the average 2 person home in the villages uses about 10,000 gallons of water per month
Village Community Development Districts
Which converts to about 300 gallons per day per household. So when the developer adds 3000 households in Feeney that will use 1 million gallons a day of new water. This is on top of the expansions south of 466A which are ongoing..

I only post this to point out that the Water district would be hard pressed to refuse to allow a 1/2 million gallon per day extraction unless they are also prepared to deny permits for new developments by the Morse family and other developers. Water is water and the ongoing residential and commercial growth is having a far greater potential impact on the aquifer than will the lease approved this week.

pauld315 06-12-2016 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 1239897)
According to the Village Community Dev District website, section on high usage notification, the average 2 person home in the villages uses about 10,000 gallons of water per month
Village Community Development Districts
Which converts to about 300 gallons per day per household. So when the developer adds 3000 households in Feeney that will use 1 million gallons a day of new water. This is on top of the expansions south of 466A which are ongoing..

I only post this to point out that the Water district would be hard pressed to refuse to allow a 1/2 million gallon per day extraction unless they are also prepared to deny permits for new developments by the Morse family and other developers. Water is water and the ongoing residential and commercial growth is having a far greater potential impact on the aquifer than will the lease approved this week.

Why is it so high ? My wife and I use under 4000 gallons a month in hot NC. 10000 gallons a month here would cost about 165 a month. I have rain barrels that I bought from the town attached to my gutter system. i use that water to water my plants instead of using our sprinkler system.

rubicon 06-13-2016 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1239704)
Whether or not the development here by The Villages continues, development here and around here WILL continue by someone else. Florida is now the third most populous state in the union. People are moving to Florida in droves, and are moving here for all of the reasons we did. List of U.S. states and territories by population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If in fact the St.John's River Authority limits us in our watering, then this is mightily suspect. Either we have enough water or we don't. Either there is a ecological issue or there isn't. If "they" can levy fines to the CDD because of tree cutting, "they" should be able to stop unnecessary water leaving town.

I am confused.

GG: If you recall their was a bill on the ballot in 2010 asking that people have more say in future development . developers and realtors fought that bill and won.

You make my argument when you state that people are moving here to Florida from all over. that's the point the impact on the environment is going to be devastating

rubicon 06-13-2016 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnglishJW (Post 1239722)
For starters, many of the points raised here seem - to me - to be very personal and somewhat selfish. Secondly, there are indeed water supplies that are owned by cities/states. Massive reservoirs in upstate New York for New York City being a prime example. Ultimately, I don't believe that we Villagers have any possibility of claiming any increased use of water is a threat while our development (TV) continues to grow at such a rapid pace. No more for anyone else but we want more for us?

Really? I respectfully disagree...cities and states may make claim but it doesn't make it right or legal. Well they rubber stamp it all to make it legal. When the west was being settled big ranchers made claim to water sources belonging to them and them alone and water barons thought what a great idea and adopted that clever move as the years progressed

Water is a public resource.. but that is really a subject that will take more time than allowed here.

If The Villages has "no possibility of claiming any increase use of water as a threat while our development continues..."then pray tell why do we have a three tier system? If water is that plentiful then why are people penalized for using more? and if your right then the three tier system really amounts to only greed by people you believe can claim water rights

The real problem here is that there is not one person, one organization consumers can approach that can successfully beat back these water barons and the sycophants that hang with them so consumers eventually submit and just blink and deflate

Personal Best Regards:

banjobob 06-13-2016 07:00 AM

I disagree with granting the pumping that amount of water from the aquifer but wonder what the total amount of water in that aquifer is Is the amount being withdrawn significant to affect the total. Also those that live in the area really need to become proactive with their elected officials and phone write or visit them to voice their concerns.

biker1 06-13-2016 07:17 AM

The cost of 10000 gallons of water in The Villages varies by where you live and whether it is potable or irrigation water (for those farther south in The Villages). 10000 gallons of irrigation water in my CDD would run about $26. 10000 gallons of potable water would run about $35 plus $50 for sewer (you pay twice for potable water since the assumption is it goes down the drains and must be treated). Irrigation water is reclaimed water.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauld315 (Post 1240064)
Why is it so high ? My wife and I use under 4000 gallons a month in hot NC. 10000 gallons a month here would cost about 165 a month. I have rain barrels that I bought from the town attached to my gutter system. i use that water to water my plants instead of using our sprinkler system.


Happy Gardener 06-13-2016 08:21 AM

Although SWFWMD has approved a permit for SWR Properties of Ocala to pump 496,000 gallons of water a day for 20 years and ship it to Leesburg for bottling, Sumter County Board of Commissioners controls zoning in Sumter County. Besides sinking a 10-inch-wide well, SWR Properties plans to build a pumping station, driveway and modular office building on its property. located just east of the intersection of U.S. Highway 301 and County Road 470. Eighty 6,200-gallon trucks per day on average and 144 trucks in a peak month would carry the water to Azure Bottling Co in Leesburg. Sumter County Board of Commissioners will meet JUNE 28TH, 5:00 PM at Colony Cottage Rec Center on hwy 466-A in The Villages.

debow 06-13-2016 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren Kiefer (Post 1239656)
Sorry, I meant daily.

500,000 gallons per day equates to 2,000,000 16 ounce bottles per day. Some one is making a great deal on money at the expense of our most precious natural resource. Shame on those state officials.

blueash 06-13-2016 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by debow (Post 1240327)
500,000 gallons per day equates to 2,000,000 16 ounce bottles per day. Some one is making a great deal on money at the expense of our most precious natural resource. Shame on those state officials.

4,000,000

debow 06-13-2016 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 1240365)
4,000,000

You're correct and I'm a retired engineer. LOL.

stujake 06-13-2016 10:36 AM

The amounts you state are daily, not annually. The potential problem is much greater than you can imagine. Think potential for sinkholes caused by accelerated water movement below ground.

maddie101 06-13-2016 11:15 AM

PROTECT OUR WATER
******* CALL T0 ACTION*******

As you know, Protect our Water has been working to prevent approval of a permit to withdraw almost a half million gallons of water a day, for the next 20 years, from the upper Floridan Aquifer. The purpose of the permit request is to drill a well, pump the water, and then sell the water back to the public.

We were notified on June 8th 2016, after the fact, that Southwest Florida Water Management District (SWFWMD) approved this permit request.

Because the location of the proposed pumping station is in Sumter County (approximately 7 miles from The Villages), the Sumter County Board of County Commissioners and various County offices, also have a role to play. New zoning requests as well as building permits will be presented to the county for approval. They can vote to deny these permits.

Many of you have submitted letters to SWFWMD stating your concerns, have signed petitions, attended meetings to learn more about the implications of the permit and indicated your desire to become more involved.
NOW IS THE TIME!

THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WILL MEET JUNE 28TH, 5:00 PM AT COLONY COTTAGE RECREATION CENTER.
ATTENDEES WILL BE ABLE TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ABOUT THIS ISSUE DURING THE COMMENT PHASE OF THE MEETING.

Please join us there. Come early to assure seating. If you would like to speak briefly, say for about 2 minutes, bring a copy of your comments to give to the press, who will be in attendance. But it certainly isn’t necessary that you speak. Your presence will be your voice. Either way, it’s important we continue to make our opposition known.

Questions? Email ProtectOurWaterFlorida@gmail.com or visit Protect Our Water - Koller 2016 . See you June 28th!
Copyright © 2016 Protect Our Water, All rights reserved.

Our mailing address is:
P.O. Box 3683
Ocala, FL 34478

Background

The Spring Water Resources of Ocala is the company that has filed a permit application with the state Water Use Permit Bureau to pump water from Fern Spring and an unnamed spring east of CR 470 and north of U.S. 301 in Sumter County. The water would be sold to Azure Water of Leesburg, whose clients include Consolidated Water Group, Publix, Niagara Bottling Co., DS Water and Nestle Water. It has potential effect to our homes in The Villages ( water table, sink holes, etc). A pumping station, loading driveway and office building would be built on the 10.5-acre property, which is owned by Spring Water Resources.

On an average day, the well operation would operate 13.3 hours, filling 80 trucks with 6,200 gallons each. But during peak months, the well would operate 24 hours a day, pumping 892,000 gallons a day and filling 144 trucks, according to permit application documents.

manaboutown 06-13-2016 11:29 AM

That is a lot of truck traffic both fouling the air and ruining the pavement because large loaded water trucks are heavy.

rubicon 06-13-2016 12:31 PM

Voters had a legal opportunity in 2010 to vote to have some say in such things but passed up the opportunity. Florida does have a sunshine law. However pols get around that puppy by having the meeting and than the MEETING. I suspect Florida reps showing up at Colony will display empathy, concern, understanding and then move forward with plans to expand Azure capacity to draw even more water. Paint me jaded but when it comes to gov't want supercedes right


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