Can I really AFFORD TV?
 

What would be the average monthly costs of a small home in TV? - 2 br/2 ba, nothing fancy. I live on Long Island. I'm figuring with landscaping, maintenance, typical house bills, insurance... $2K a month? Does that sound right? How do people do this on a fixed income?? Not sure I can afford TV.:cold:

Afford TV
 

You can do it on 2K depending on the initial cost of your home, the size of the down payment, and the mortgage balance. I think your post said a home worth around 200K. That includes utilities, taxes, maintenance fees, and insurance. This is not including entertainment and groceries.

Cost of living in TV
 

My wife and I got a breakdown from one of the sales agents while we were vacationing in December. On a house of around 190-200,000 the cost is about 750-900 per month counting all the taxes, amenities fee, insurance, bond, and CDD. At least that's the figure they gave us. I understand it will vary, but I understood that to be about average. That's separate from the mortgage, if any.

If I'm wrong, someone with more knowledge please correct me.

Living Expenses
 

I have a series of notes on Moving to the Villages. In it is an estimate of the monthly/annual living cost.

Please go to https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...ad.php?t=17717

It is in the Nuts and Bolts forum.

Z

From many prior posts on this same issue - if you don't have a mortgage, don't eat out every night and your medical insurance isn't too high, $2K/Mo net is doable. My mother had about $1,500/Mo income and saved around $500/Mo with no mortgage and pension covered medical.

From what I have read, the average gross family income in TV is around $45K.

A promotional flyer we were given before we moved here indicated the median income was 92 K annual income.

I think the 45K-55K is about right as an average. Remember median is an average and many people over estimate their actual income. And you have to ask - does the median income include before retirement and after retirement income.

Also that 45-55K is gross - not net.

IMHO, you are correct. Assuming no mortgage or bond payments.

Two things ---

If you buy now, you can get a 2/2 or 3/2 ranch for well under $200K.

http://www.thevillages.com/homes/vls/search_new.asp

The new ones are a great deal, a bit cheaper.

http://www.thevillages.com/homes/new...earch_new2.asp

Re average income here, the published numbers are pretty meaningless. Is the number owner/resident or buyer? We have fully employed single or double income folks buying pre-retirement and snow flaking for a couple years. We have snow birds who are fully employed "up north" for 6+ months a year. We have residents with full time jobs or businesses that they oversee from TV. And we have actual retirees --- hey we don't do no stinkin' work, man!! My retirement and minuscule investments pale in comparison to a neighbor's full time job in Tampa or another buddy's income from a company he still owns and quasi runs back home. But they'll catch up to me one day.

I'm single, have a small mortgage and am doing quite well on just my state pension alone. I have a 2B/2B patio villa. I wanted to keep expenses down so I went with the villa - it was a good choice for me - not much maintenance - more time to play.

Lots of information available.:read:
Send for The Villages Tour and Information Portfolio, it has a cost of living sheet.
http://www.thevillages.com/freetour/freetour.asp
Another source of information.
http://www.thevillagesfloridabook.com/cost-of-living/
Still another source, scroll down to find Cost of Living.
http://users.thevillages.net/wproven...llagenotes.htm

On the developer's commercial website...
 

...per the U.S. Census, the average income for The Villages homebuyers is $74,300 (I assume that refers to the 2000 census).

Take a look at the website "selling" the villages to commercial entities:
http://www.thevillagescommercialproperty.com/index.asp

Villager's have everything at their fingertips (except prefered tee times, it seems). There is very little reason to leave TV, in fact, the website states that 80% of residential trips are within TV.

To us, that is a great attraction. In our golden years we want to be catered to and accomdated at every turn...and we don't mind paying a bit more to have it that way. I'm thinking life in TV would be much nicer than life out in the general population.

It is nicer than life out in the "real world". For instance tonight we went to play Bingo at the Colony Cottage recreation center. The center is beautifully decorated and full of beautiful furniture, mirrors, pictures, and gorgeous accessories, looking like a Victorian beach cottage on steroids.

Bingo cost one dollar per person and cards were very cheap. My husband, daughter and I shared nine cards for ten dollars. The prizes came from the money collected and ranged from twenty five dollars to one hundred ten dollars per game.

There was a break in the middle where you were served your choice of large bowls of chocolate, Vanilla, Swirl, or no sugar ice cream. Then you had all kinds of toppings, including peanuts and whipped cream.

Our daughter won sixty dollars. They take all of the money collected that night and give it completely back to the group in the room. This was in a beautiful room with eight large Austrian crystal chandeliers.

Not to mention the unbelieveable comraderie among the attendees. Friendly and fun.

You had me at "sugar-free ice cream";)

Sugar-free for over five years...both of us...and we're not diabetics.

From Wikipedia "The Villages":

The median income for a household in the CDP was $42,542, and the median income for a family was $45,078. Males had a median income of $58,173 versus $26,176 for females. The per capita income for the CDP was $28,343.


.

I am in complete admiration of that!!

Photos?
 

Graciegirl,

Sounds like you all have a very nice time. Nice surroundings are a big plus of TV, as well as such a wide variety of social, learning, hobby, and sports activities.

Who runs the bingo games?

Do you have a digital camera? I'm sure we'd all enjoy seeing a photo now and then of your TV experiences posted on this forum. And all you other TOTV'ers, let's see a glimpse of your adventures too!

Dirigo

We bought a patio villa and just love it - under $150K (yes, including the bond and closing costs). Also, it's very low maintenance and quite low in energy usage, etc. If affordability is an issue, you may want to consider one of these units instead of a house.

Two or Three BR?
 

Would that be a 2 BR or 3 BR unit for under $150K? Garage. 1 car or 2 car?

Thanks.

2 BR 1 car plus cart

I don't think a 3rd BR is a choice in a Patio Villa, have to move up to the Courtyard Villas for that option.:pepper2:

Just wondering . . .
 

Our neighbor just sent this to me via email:


Interesting facts about The Villages.

BY THE NUMBERS...

23,000 Total acres of land contained within The Villages

75,000 Current population of The Villages

102,119 Projected population of The Villages by the year 2012

20 New homeowners move into The Villages every day

50 Percentage of people moving into The Villages who will pay cash for their home.

62/60 Average home buyer's age for men and women, respectively

$44,448 Average household income (in dollars) for the state of Florida

$93,800 Average household income (in dollars) for home buyers in The Villages

92 Percentage of Villagers who read The Daily Sun seven days a week

97 Percentage of Villagers who read The Daily Sun at least two days per week

2 Million Rounds of golf played per year by Villagers

$198 Million Dollars that Villagers will spend annually in restaurants and drinking establishments

MARKET DEMOGRAPHICS:

Over 75,000 residents now call The Villages home, and this active adult community grows by over 20 new home owners each day. A diverse, well-educated population enjoys a winning combination of recreation, entertainment and shopping in this Central Florida haven.

The Villages Daily Sun core zip codes include 32159, 32162, and 34491.

The Villages is the top selling master-planned community in the United States. This tri-county area (Lake County, Marion County, and Sumter County) is rapidly growing into its own metropolitan area, with national retailers targeting shoppers with high incomes and ample leisure time to shop and enjoy life.

Average Home buyer's Age: Male: 62 years • Female: 60 years

Average Income Per Household The Villages $93,800

US Average $48,200* - Florida Average $44,448*

Population • 2005 54,635 • 2010 92,635

What are your thoughts on this everyone? :shrug:

Super great information!!
 

Chelsea. I think we all are sitting on a gold mine and living in Paradise.

This is a great piece of information and I have sent it on to everyone I know.

Thanks for posting it.

Quote from www.thevillagescommercialproperty.com
 

This is how Villagers are described by the developer: "The Villages Market is people with money and the leisure time to enjoy spending it!"

Villagers describe The Villages as darn near ideal. Sounds like a symbiotic relationship to me...

baybob, all the new patio villas are 2BR - 1-1/2 car garage, about 1160'
in fact there's a price reduced/very private villa in the neighborhood next to ours for $133K (2 sides fenced) and it's a steal (IMHO)

about the same as most of the courtyard villas and ranch homes,

if you want 3BR or 2 car garage, you'll pay somewhat more,

check the TV listings and you can sort by those factors

we've talked that average income before,
I think that must include the developer who ups the average by $50K LOLOL

If those numbers are correct I can kiss my dreams of living in TV goodby.

Average Income...
 

Yes, I think all of the numbers look about right, except for the average income! That seems high! :shrug:

I too, received this email. I asked the sender what the source of the data was and the sender said I got it from a friend.
Does anyone know the source of the data. I doubt it, probably just another urban ledgend in the making.

The Daily Sun
 

The source of this info is The Villages Daily Sun. It's listed under their "Rate Card" page. Here's the link to bring you to it.

http://www.thevillagesdailysun.com/s..._Rate_Card.pdf

I'm sure there's a lot of truth in the numbers, but numbers can also be worked to anyone's favor, such as when they're justifying advertising rates.

You have to take into consideration that the income stated is not the average income of the average retiree (frog). A lot of 2 income second home income is counted. The Village Sun is trying to attract advertisers.

It will be interesting to read the demographics after the next census is posted.

Gracie - I assume by that you mean that the current economy will slow those numbers down. But I think this economy has very little impact on those that are already down there.

Those people affected will be those that can't sell their home up north and are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Or have lost their job and have had to put their retirement dreams on hold.

Those that have made the move have lined up all their ducks and calculated their income prior to the move. Sure there may be a small decrease but I'll bet the vast majority of TV residents have a steady, fixed stream of income. Most don't rely on a full time job and are conservative in their investment goals.

Just my 2 cents (pun intended!). Russ

For more The Villages Market info
 

http://www.thevillagescommercialprop...ges-market.asp

Click on Fig 1: Average Income per Household link. The Villages average homebuyer's income at the last census was $74,300.

I wonder what the mean retiree income is? $50K-$70K?

Let's find out! Is there a way to do a blind income survey on TOTV?

Statistics
 

I'm certainly no statistician (I got only two C's in college - in Statistics I and its follow-on course), but I think that if you want to look at meaningful data, you should concentrate on "median" income, not "average" or mean income. While we like to say "what is the average income in TV?", what we really want to know what is the "typical" income. By using average income, you are probably looking at an artificially high number, as the average includes both mortals with retirement income in the range of 50-60K, and those who live in those $1M+ houses along the championship courses, whose incomes certainly drive the "average" retirement income number up. The median retirement income is calculated by determining the point at which 1/2 of all incomes are lower and 1/2 of all incomes are higher. IMHO, the median income number would be more typical, and is therefore more useful in comparison. When I see "average income" used in the newspaper (especially in the New York Times), I start looking deeper to see what the writer's real intention is, as the "average" can be very deceptive.

Even better...
 

Median is even better!

Does anyone know if a blind poll is do-able?

If you start a poll here it is blind as far as the answer to the poll. You don't need to make a comment. So start one if you wish.

BUT

Is it really important to any of us what the average or the median income is? Unless you planning to open a business and need to do some analysis then who cares?

What IS important is your monthly budget calculation. You can find all the info you need in this forum to help you estimate a monthly expense flow. Then simply figure you monthly income flow and make sure that you have enough. Obviously you need more than the typical expense flow (add in some trips back north, savings, extra fun things, medical, dental, travel etc.)

For curiosity's sake and for perspective.
 

Russ-Yes, you're right, of course. It all boils down to an individual's income stream vs. anticipated costs.:agree:

The reason for a poll would be to cut through the TV marketing hype regarding average income, and to get some perspective about what is the median income level. What is the real situation?

If some TOTV'ers are grousing about prices and the average income is $65K, someone with a projected retirement income of $55K might realize they will have to budget carefully to live in TV, while someone with a projected retirement income of $75K might feel reassured that they can live comfortably in TV.

Being a relative newbie I don't know how to start a poll and I'm not sure how to make it a blind poll.:shrug:

The real issue is not "average" income in TV vs "Median" income in TV. The real issue is the definition of "in TV." As I and others have stated elsewhere, amongst Villages homeowners (not residents), you have those who are fully retired living on retirement income, interest on investments, SSI, and similar income streams. Add to those, households with those incomes who also work part time for TV or for Lowes or the like. That income isn't great but does skew the numbers. Then you have others who continue to work in their career jobs, either from here or commuting. That income is very significant and will likely be close to double post retirement money. All of the above could/would be full time TV residents.

Then you have the snowflakes and snowbirds who spend varying amounts of time in TV. Many of these have single or dual incomes from career jobs "up north" and those numbers would generally be way higher than the average frog. Yes, their expenses would be greater, but we're ignoring those for this question. when these folks actually retire that income should drop considerably.

So no, I don't think one can accurately determine any meaningful income statistics for TV people. No, contrary too what some believe, we're not all rich. We have some residents subsisting solely on SSI. We have others who have accumulated exceptional retirement portfolios and have very comfortable 6 figure incomes. And we have other owners who maintain successful businesses into their later years and couples who work 9, 10, 11, or more months year ands net really large incomes. And we are all "in TV" as buyers, owners, residents.

So if you are trying to determine these economic demographics for TV, you can't get there from here.

I've been interested in this thread for several days, as I'm trying to move to tv. The more I've read, the more I wonder if I CAN afford it. I'm 63 and widowed so will be on a fixed income (ss and retirement from my husband and me). I guess I'll have to wait till I see how it works out financially here in Alabama after I retire March 1. In my heart, I really want to sell my house and be in tv fulltime. I'll be visiting there this weekend, so maybe I'll see you then. I'm enjoying getting to know you through this form.