The Stimulus Package
 

In the end, the only thing being "stimulated" is Special Interests which could not get a dime if their "requests" were given single-bill or single-amendment open scrutiny. However, with the administration trying to ramrod in one swoop all this kiss-butt spending - which we will be stuck with for many years once the "initial" funding goes in place - the middle class gets screwed again. Now we can see why there is such a rush to get this bill passed - as most of the money is nothing but payoffs and pork.

When you get your tax bill next year and subsequent years, remember who voted for this absurdity.....

Stimulus package
 

I agree that some of the proposed expenditures are not worthwhile and would burden our society for years to come. What expenditures would be considered constructive and worthwhile?
Maybe we can start a list....

I would rank unemployment benefits a must. Designate money to repair our highways and rail systems, funding to retrain our job force, a tax cut for the middle class and lower business taxes.

It is not difficult at all for semi intelligent folks to
 

pick those pork entities that have absolutely nothing to do with "stimulating" the economy. Foe example the millions earmarked for STD (sexually transmitted diseases). And many more obvious like it. It is business as usual in Washington, DC.
Obama says let's not waste time trying to get it perfect, just pass it!!
Now just where is the change in the processing of this piece of legislation? Don't strain the gray matter...there is none.
Business as usual and Obama is NOT edicting get the fluff out...only ram rodding, get it done.

How much more simple could it be than to stand tall and tell the insider cronies to cull out the pork that is totally, completely un related to stimulating the economy.

Another example of Washington insider practices being continued by a Washington insider administration....talking change....but walking same-o-same-o!!!!

New administration.....SOS...the polite version= same old stuff.

Too much of a hurry to do it right....really sends a message to the law makers eh? barf

BTK

Rep. Pelosi recently said that she estimates the number of people unemployed in the US at 11 million workers. Ironically, the number of illegal aliens in the US is estimated at between 15-20 million, and 2/3rd of them would be "workers."

So, it would seem a reasonable "stimulus" would be to remove/isolate illegal aliens from the workplace, and those jobs now being done by illegals would be available to US workers. Employers would have to pay competitive wages for the US workers, and the money would cycle within the US economy instead of a significant percentage leaving the US via foreign remittance.

There are no jobs Americans won't do, but the wage needs to be commensurate to the labor.

Continued condoning of illegal alien labor in any form is tantamount to condoning economic slavery.

Let's be clear - much of the world is dependent on US consumerism. Until we build our economy back, we can't assist the rest of the world in their economic recovery. So, let's stop encouraging illegal alien labor use, as it keeps Americans out of work and exploits peoples who further seek public assistance to remain and survive in the US.

Rep. Pelosi wants the US to borrow $900Billion to help employ a large percentage of the 11 million unemployed American workers AND keep the illegal alien population "employed" in slave-wage conditions as well AND fund a slew of feel-good special-interest programs.

That's a good deal ? ?

I thought that President Obama campaigned against what he called the "politics of fear"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090205/...s_stimulus_126

Obama has been attempting to "manage" expectations
 

since winning the election.
He continues to headline how bad things are and how long it will take to fix.
Now being POTUS for all of two weeks he has the insight to make a statement that either give me my bill or we may never recover from recession! Wow what insight....counter to every historical record of recessions and recovery.
Another historic event in the making? The USA possibly never recovering from recession.
He is peddling fear as fast as his speech writers can put it to paper.
I am so anxious to see the miracle of this stimulous package. So far the fed sent out checks to all last year...result....zip!
The government bailout of $700 billion had to be passed quickly to get the US economy in recovery as fast as possible...result....zip.
Now the new administration is singing the same hymn from the political handbook, laced with fear of do this or else. New adminstration....same music...no change!!!!!
When they do pass it maybe we can all eat pork!!:1rotfl:

In my opinion, if this miracle threat bill does not show some improvement what could possibly be the next wishful act? The real fear should be if the miracle does not work....then what?
Eventually enough time will pass...the economy will begin to improve but not as a result of any of the rescues, bail outs or stimulations. It would have happened over time without all the political bluster and bull feces.

Time for some cheerleading and encouragement and hang up the hand wringing and the sky may fall rhetoric. It doesn't cost nearly as much.

BTK

The rest of the world has thought us stupid in recent years. And in November we proved it. We have employed the fox to govern the hen house, and the cost will be extreme. The founding fathers of this Republic must be spinning in their graves!

And employing the Geezer and the Dingbat would have been somehow smart???:beer3:

Let's be realistic - the President is not the all-knowing guru on economics, but rather is the water-carrier for the Democratic Congress who is shoving the largest pork-pie in history at breakneck speed, and using the recession as the reason for avoiding scrutiny, to feather the party nest via special interest payoffs and "social" programs which could never stand public review otherwise.

To try to sneak in The great condom purchase, ACORN funding, increases to the National Endowment for the Arts, etc. at a time when many Americans are nervous about jobs, keeping their homes, etc is SICKENING as line items in an "economic stimulus" package, and the authors of those (and other similar) line items should be made public for the opportunists they are.

I'm surprised there is not a ground-swell of anger from average-American Democrats, because their party leadership has snookered them under the guise of bailouts to protect average Americans.

We can disagree on whether bailouts are necessary to prop up the economy, and disagree in good faith. However, this blatant budget expansion for pet projects and obvious payoffs to special interests has no place in a piece of legislation publicized as a life preserver for the economy.

Where's the hurry on Condom-Gate, NEA funding, ACORN funding, etc ? ? ? Why can't those items go through the regular legislative process? Who's kidding whom here !

hmmm....
 

"Who's kidding who here?" You're all kidding yourselves if you think anyone, ANYONE, can step into office and after only two weeks, clean up the putrid mess left by George Bush. :ohdear:

I certainly wish "There are no jobs Americans won't do," was true. The question is how well will they do those jobs? Many of our offspring have an incredible sense of entitlement. I still contend that a man/woman unwilling
to give you an honest days labor at a lower wage scale will not work any better at a higher wage. It's about work ethic and many Americans need a healthy dose. I am not painting all Americans with this brush. Many of us have worked exceptionally hard and have sacrificed to live the American dream. Many are still doing so. I just don't buy into the argument that all Americans are hardworking. I do know many Americans will not be willing to pay the price of goods if we get rid of all the alien laborers.

I absolutely, completely and totally agree SamHass!!:agree::agree:

Not looking for a cure after two weeks from ANYONE!!!
 

The criticism is of the time worn, accomplish nothing new, by the same old insiders.....which factually is the make up of the new administration.

The said in the campaign there shall be no pork in bills during his tenure. That is all that is being measured. As Barney Frank (:1rotfl:....sorry can't even say the name without breaking up) pontificates....well it is 25% less pork than usual and while not perfect is an improvement. And then Obama chides...let's not waste time on perfection.
Nothing aimed at whether accomplished or not in ONLY TWO WEEKS!!!
The methodology is same-o-same-o, business as usual by the same-o same-o insiders who were there for the 5 presidents...incompetent re-elected to office by both parties....lead by imcompetent, lack luster, same-o same-o, accomplish nothing performance. And now condoned by our new, self professed change agent POTUS Obama on supposedly "...survival of the USA if you don't approve..." legislation.
The question of the thread is what happened to doing it right? No pork?
And for those always insistent on measuring according to Bush...methodology wise....no change!!!!!BTK

NOBODY is criticizing the President for what you so eloquently refer to. Where did you hear any criticism of results ? Please post a link !!!

Have you read the posts and the news lately ?

So then it is perfectly fine to:

1.pay people below minimum wage.
2.not pay FICA, state unemployment insurance and the employer pocket the money.
3. expect county indigent health care funds to cover the health coverage of these workers and their families
4. condone identity theft via phony SS Cards and other ID cards
5. keep factories and other such facilities at below-OSHA requirements because the labor won't complain out of fear of being deported
6. continue having more and more jobs get "demoted" in pay and working conditions because there's always an illegal willing to do the job at any money
7. turn a blind eye on the living conditions of most illegals who try to live on slave wages because "out of sight, oout of mind"
8. and tthe biggest of them all - ignore 1-7 above because I don't want the prices of my goods to go up, no matter who gets hurt along the way.

I understand the motivation of the illegal allien who will do anything to support his/her family. I also understand and have seen first-hand over-and-over-again the results of the employer extortion and exploitation of these people - all to lower overhead and rise profits - knowing full well that most American consumers don't care, as long as the price of lettuce doesn't go over $2 a head, meat doesn't cost more, the grass gets cut cheaper than the lawn service which pays its employees according to the law of the land, and all such situations.

It's amazing how we can complain when our jobs and benefits get leveled or reduced, but don't give a hoot about the REAL economic slavery going on all around us.

And Chels - all the Bush bashing in the world has nothing to do with sleight-of-hand funding for ACORN, NEA, condom delivery and the other pork products which have NOTHING to do with any economic stimulus. George Bush is out of office - get over it - and if Pres Obama delivers on his campaign promises, GOOD! So far, he has hedged and reneged on his "consensus with tthe people" and anti-pork rhetoric, and is a willing participant in getting special interests funded through buried line items in the DEMOCRATIC-WRITTEN stimulus bill. So far, he's just shown himself as the Reid/Pelosi cheerleader on party-partisan, budget-swelling, payback-to-special-interest legislation. I don't care if he has been in office two days or two years. You don't get a "breaking-in period" as President - and he and his party leadership know that.

Oh yeah - condom makers, "artists" funded by NEA and ACORN employees need their jobs protected, too. What a crock!

I am sure you must be alluding to US Senator John McCain and Gov. Sarah Palin with your comments.

My reply to your question would be YES !!!!

It was discussed many times on this board that the McCain/Palin ticket was not one to get excited about, but the alternative was worse and we are seeing the results ALREADY, which is what shocks me...the speed and shocking jamming down our throats.

During the campaign, many said we are electing someone who is schooled and knows only socialism and we will give him a congress that is extreme left and socialist. Now, we have a "stimulus plan" that is becoming a total spending binge to support anything and everything socialist and we are told we must do it NOW. The same man who was so vociferious about the "politics of fear" is doing the same thing.

I suppose those who supported him want this, although the polls seem to be switching but you and I and all of us know that congress does not care...no matter how much the polls reflect our fear of this plan, there is no consideration of that....fact is the leaders keep saying how much we want it and that isnt a fact !!!!!

Kyaker,

No, I don't the GOP ticket would have been "somehow smart". And if you took my comments as an endorsement of the GOP ticket, you are wrong and you missed the point.

Actually, I think there were better choices available to both parties, and they both sold us down the river with their respective nominees.:cus:

Have a nice day!

:agree:

correct
 

I can't wait to see the next bailout of our banking sytem coming down down the road. :agree::agree:

:agree:There were better choices available to the respective parties. But we have to play the hand they deal us.
It seems that the only choices for the voters were "Change", "More of the Same", or "Useless". "Change" won by a convincing majority.

Hey Kayaker....and we the people get exactly what
 

you outlined.....NO MATTER WHO WINS THE ELECTION!!

Just look at the more of the same circus that is underway with the pork filled stimulous package.

The only change evident to date is the fact there is a new POTUS with a whole slew of appointed Washington insiders.

And that is all that has changed to date. Oooops I forgot the other evident change is the retraction by the now POTUS that promises made during the campaign will be difficult to deliver.

We are suffering from more of the same propelled by an on the job training POTUS.

BTK

At soe point the mass constituents will wake up
 

to the fact the bill the POTUS is ranting about is not a real stimulus plan.

While this is only one take (of many) it is revealing enough that we the people should be writing to our representatives to squash it and go for a REAL program:

http://inhofe.senate.gov/public/inde...5-a737ffca72f7

Where is the jobs opportunity?
Where is the energy independence plan, which by itself would open substantial opportunities for jobs?
The spending programs do none of the above. So why are we the people letting the likes of Pelosi and Obama run us in the wrong direction?

Obama has put a check mark in the box for closing Gitmo. Big deal. Wait till you see what it does not do. And how much it will cost to relocate the terrorists. As well as allow some to return to their task of killing Americans.

Obama is exhibiting frustration that the bill, which is minimally stimulus, over it not being passed. Why? Because he wants to get another box checked in the first 100 days....whether it does the job or not.

The forecast is to be worse off one year from now as a result.

What is it going to take? I for one am in favor of a revolution. Yes, all out war against the Washington gang, including Obama, that are not doing what is needed.

SPENDING WILL NOT MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wait until the terrorist attack happens. Wait until the oil supply to the USA is interrupted.

We can live here in TV and feel secure. Well if you haven't experienced shortages from the panic buying here, just wait. What has happenined to date is only a precursor to the future.

What is it going to take...for we the people to wake up? Before it is too late...if it isn't already!!

BTK

Sen Inhofe is against the stimulus plan?
All the more reason to be in favor of it.

Obama is missing the best opportunity to get to the high ground.
 

All he had to do was to get impatient with his own congress. The executive right thing to do was to tell them to take the bill back....strip out the pork....because I the candidate said there would be no pork on his watch.

But no. Instead he elects to take those that are fighting the pork, to task. Hence condoning what the Queen of Pork (Pelosi) is ram rodding.

Is he telegraphing he really doesn't want to impose on her turf?

To challenge his Congress to do what he pledged to the people would have been the right thing to do. Instead he chose to take the same-o same-o political position of not rocking the party boat.
Too bad. Doing what he promised or doing what is right did not get ANT play in his decision making.
For those of us waiting to see if he does the right thing....it is a disappointment....not a surprise...a disappointment...no walking the talk....just another politician.

BTK

Reduce Corp income tax to lowest in the world.

Zero Corp Income tax for any new mfg operation. manufacturing in the United States.

No capital gains tax for 10 years.

Make the Bush tax breaks perm.

Give $10,000 to every American citizen age 18 or over.

Give $15,000 tword the purchase of a primary resident. Must reside in it for 5 years.

As far as roads and bridges go, we have been paying for these through our taxes already. They have been wasting the money elsewhere.

Oh, I almost forgot. QUIT BLAMING GEORGE BUSH! There is a new guy responsible now.

Yeah! After all, it's not like he dug the deep pit we find ourselves in now...........oh, wait.:pepper2:

Your defense of President Obama is admirable, and there is much validity to your point about the previous administration, although I, personally, place much more blame on the congress than the President. I DO blame him for not handling the first TARP payment appropriately for sure..he and Paulson.

Having said that, these first few weeks have completely floored me, even though I totally expected much of what is going on, just not this quickly.

I am struck that he campaigned against what he called "politics of fear"...yet he is practicing the same thing now.

I am struck that a man who more than anyone in recent memory campaigned on ethics.....yet he publicly defended folks who had not paid taxes and he knew it at the time he was defending them...of course he said "my screwup" AFTER it was too late. He says he did not push them to drop out and I ask WHY DIDNT HE ?

I am struck that a man who preached over and over that there would be NO PORK, is allowing and pushing for a bill totally loaded with a ton of it, EVEN TO THE DISGUST OF fellow Democrats.

I spoke against his election....gave many many reasons during the campaign. I knew I would be shown to be correct (for once in my stupid life, this was a no brainer_, but actually held hope that perhaps I was wrong and he was actually different than I thought and different than what we have had but it sure appears that President Obama is not only the same but much much more scarier because he has the likes of Rep Pelosi and Sen Reid

I watched most of the debate on the "Stimulus" package on C-SPAN 2. The most articulate and thoughtful speaker was.....John McCain. What we ended up with is "More of the same, you can believe in."
So this stimulus package is polling at 37% approvel. Obama is currenlty polling at 61% approvel. Let's watch that number.

Making his case in the most dire terms, President Barack Obama said that "if Congress does not quickly pass an economic stimulus package, the nation will slip into a crisis so deep that "we may be unable to reverse it."

What a disgraceful self serving lie.

The last time I saw such a performance, it was Robert Preston stating, "There's trouble in River City...."

And they fell for it.

What we are witnessing since 1/20/2009....
 

including today's market sell off after Gaithersburg's long awaited plan to turn the finances around is...OJT by ALL the newbies.
It is always easier to do the job from afar...comment why things don't work when one does not have the wheel....however, once in the shoes...they ALL have to learn what it is they cannot do. And what happens when they do what.

It is sort of like a pie pan full of marbles and then pushing one more in...of course it will go in....after another one some where else pops out. They are learning...not so quickly...it is easy to say put in the marbles...where or how many come out is not so easy.

Remember when throwing billions at the problems used to at least generate some positives? Now they are throwing trillions with no result.

Maybe....IF....and WHEN...any of the money ever gets to we the people then maybe there will be an impact.....MAYBE....

Until then, just watch 'em pushing in the $$$$$$$ (marbles) and hoping for the best.

What is the next order of magnitude after trillion????:a040:

BTK

a worthless dollar.

I agree that there is no guarantee that the stimulus package will work. But after doing much reading, its clear that all the economic gurus and experts say there must be one or things could be much, much worse. And most of them want more money thrown in the pot than was done. I doubt that they're even telling us how bad things really are, because it would cause widespread panic. The economic hole we are in is so deep, I don't know if there is a shovel big enough to get us out. It may just take time for the pendulum to swing the other way. But at this point, I think the new administration is doing the best it can, give the ball of wax it inherited.

When Jimmy Carter left office we had 10% or higher unemployment, double digit inflation, 18% + mortgage rates, gas lines, a bank bail out or two, declining military, etc, etc, etc.

No multi-trillion dollar pork package was needed to fix it. Reagan cut taxes among other things and the economy came back rather quickly.

1. The government didn't inherit this ball of wax, they caused it.
2. They say the worst economy since the great depression and the only way to fix it is massive spending. Big Fat Lie.
3. Wide spread panic? Obama is doing everything he can to cause wide spread panic. That's the only way they will get their money and thus a private sector take over.
4. The American people are being scammed.
5. They will come back for more money when this doesn't work.
6. When the economy does come back... in spite of what they are doing make no mistake about it, they will come after our tax $$ in a big way.
7. People better wake up and start cleaning house the next election cycles and that includes Obama and his crew.

Let us not jump to judement here, rather let us begin studying the Chinese, Japanese, or worse yet Russian languages because when one of these countries or another buys our debt and calls for it to be paid.........we are behind the eight ball for sure. The Obama nation and it's ring leaders Pelosi and Reid have sabotaged the American people beyond what we could have lost in a real war, and it was done to us without one casualty. I only ask one question.......how many Democrats even bothered to read the bill before passing it yesterday so that Princess Pelosi could jet across the Atlantic to see the Pope?

The level of dishonestly, hypocrisy, incompetence and irresponsibility in congress is absolutely mind boggling. What's even more mind boggling is we sit back as a nation and let them do it and in many cases with blessings from those who seek to be ruled.

TAJ...there are hundreds of economists who feel just the opposite, but for arguements sake, let us assume that we did in fact need a stimulus package.

I dont think the unread bill just passed is a stimulus bill...it is a spending bill and there is a big difference !!!

For example just read something that indicates that Robert Rector, a senior research fellow at Heritage Foundation and an important part of President Clinton's team and a recognized expert on poverty says this "stimulus" bill will kill all the welfare reform that was attempted by Clinton and he says now the more folks that states put of welfare the more welfare money they will get, something that Clinton was trying to reverse.

He claims that President Obama neglected to tell us that ONE THIRD of the money in this bill is for welfare. Interesting read !!

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/D...aspx?id=418786

With so many people out of work, and no jobs available, I don't see welfare as a bad thing.