Raising Minimum Wage
 

I cannot understand why Republiicans are against raising the minimum wage in increments to $15 per hour. Not all in one jump, but increments over a couple or three years.

Businesses could gradually increase prices and the consumer would not mind and the business would not suffer loss.

The minimum wage should represent a wage that a minimally employed family of four could live on decenty.

Democrats do not want to set a minimum wage as what to strive for but rather as a safety net if nothing higher or more skilled can be found.

I don't want to start off by insulting your intelligence...yet. Maybe the reason we don't want to increase the minimum wage is because we believe that each state should handle that. After all, each state has a different level/standard of living and medium pay. You cannot get a studio apartment in NYC for a thousand bucks a month, but you can buy a 3 or 4 bedroom house for that in many Southern states. Gasoline costs are different by state. $15 might be great in some states, low in other states and really high in others.

Democrats mean well, but liberal politicians are not trying to do well for you, they are trying to buy your votes. They know that the price of a hamburger will go up to offset the higher wages. They know that the prices at Walmart will go up when wages go up. No business owner is going to short change him/herself and their family just to make a bunch of low motivated earners happy. Minimum wage jobs are not meant to be subsistence jobs. Anyone that thinks that someone should be so unmotivated to try to support a family on minimum wages is crazy. No, the government should not be mandating wage levels, period.

Dear Guest:

You state, "I cannot understand why".......................

for starters supply an demand Market value (see below)
loss of comparative advantage
loss of competitiveness
loss of productivity
numerical value/ market value of a job
loss of incentives

The federal government's intrusion into business with scheme such as this is simply ludicrous Every position has a set value and that value moves in conjunction with the market and with supply and demand.

Personal Best Regards:

So, if I hear you correctly, you think that there should be NO minimum wage whatsoever and it would be entirely up to businesses to determine the wages to be paid?

Isn't that going back to the days of the "robber barons" who would employ workers and pay them almost nothing? That is why labor unions were established as well as the federal minimum wage.

I do see your side BUT that ship has sailed. There IS federal minimum wage and it will not be going away. The question is whether or not to raise it to $15 per hour and create a living wage or not. The Democratic platform will be having incremental increases in minimum wage to $15.

Yes, your hamburger and beer at Codys might cost 50 cents more and your WalMart toilet paper might cost 75 cents more for the 24 pack. The Cody's waitress and WalMart employees will make a decent wage while they hopefully increase their education and skill to find a job paying more money.

You still do not get it. Minimum wages is NOT a living wage and is not supposed to be. And you did not read any of the rest of it as to reasoning why it should not be a gov mandate/controlled. If you do not wish to listen, then don't ask a question.

You are a bleeding heart liberal that thinks that anyone that is not equal to you, MUST NEED TO BE ASSISTED. Perhaps, not everyone wishes to be as you, or perhaps they are not as motivated as you. YOU do not believe in Free Enterprise, so just have everyone hired on as a gov employee, whether they like it or not.

And what is really pathetic is that you liberals ALWAYS wish for someone else to pay for your ideas and mandates. Oh, but the rich have more than they need. Who dictates what a person needs or wants? You are not even an American when you think like a commie. You can not force your welfare on others. Just leave them alone and they will either swim or sink...their choice. If you think that is cold hearted, then try waking up to the real world. This is not and never will be Obama's socialist Utopia.

Next time you are in Cody's and you feel sorry for a waitress, give her a big tip. Oops, I am speaking to a liberal, my bad.

How many Walmart employees do you know that make minimum wages? Less than 1%, in case you do not know how to Google.

And remember, just because you raise minimum wages, does not limit the increase in expense to the lower wage earners. Everyone above that level will also have to be given a raise in proportion.

You say 50 cents more for a hamburger won't hurt you. I am glad for you. But, how about those that are at a lower income than you? How about all those that can't afford to pay more for a burger? And there are people like that, you know? Just because championing a cause makes yuppies like you feel good with yourself, does that make up for not serving your country? If you want to help others, use something besides your mouth. We have a monthly food drive in our neighborhood. Why don't you volunteer for one in your neighborhood and gather food for a local food pantry? Why don't you volunteer for a soup kitchen? Instead of making everyone else miserable with your liberal ideas, think of the lasting repercussions liberal ideas cause.

Pal, you are right about one thing - I am a liberal. Thank you.

However - not serving my country - WRONG! Vietnam vet and lost a leg at the knee. I do volunteer on a regular basis at the Wildwood Food Pantry. I go to church on a regular basis. I teach boxing to high school kids. How do you match up with your service and volunteering? Want to go a few rounds in the ring with a liberal?

I make you miserable because I have liberal ideas? I apologize for that. :ho:

Guess there are always abnormalities to all trends. How do I match up? Well, I won't belittle your sacrifice by expounding on my service. Just because my service exceeds yours does not mean that I sacrificed as much, so I won't demean your service.

That said, a liberal is a liberal is a socialist. My opinion. It is obvious that you have had a change of heart.

Liberals are real good with volunteering other folks' money when it comes to taxes and funding. I don't feel that way. I do not feel that America is so weak that we need to coddle the lazy/unmotivated. I have rarely seen anyone that supported a family on minimum wages, UNLESS they were just not motivated enough to better themselves. In that case, they receive welfare. If you give them a higher minimum wage, you will probably find that they will lose their food stamps and medicaid. That will actually do them more harm. But, liberals don't look at it like that. They only think they are doing good.

Too bad this thread cannot be discussed without the name calling by both sides. I am a conservative and not in favor of the mandatory $15 minimum as proposed, for many of the reasons explained above, but as much as I disagree with the liberals in most areas they are in entitled to their opinions.

How about the proponent giving us a lesson in where and how they came up with the number $15???

Since when did the requirement for minimum wage become being adequate to raise and support a family?

I find most who are the loudest proponents of the magical $15 have no business accumen what so ever.

They do not understand that a business has a certain amount of margin many times the largest expense being wages.
To raise the wages and remain at the same profitability requires an increase in income.......higher prices....to get more margin to pay the higher minimum wage.
When there is no room to recover the margin due to increased wages expense the only other option is to cut hours or reduce the number of employees.

BFD!!! You now get $15 per hour!! You now work less hours and are not bringing anymore pay home than when making less.

The bleeding heart approach to giving money away only works in the government. They are the only ones who can keep raising wages and opearte with negative income.

How about making it personal. If the utility company decided they were not making enough profit to give their employees all a raise to the feel good level and they had to increase your monthly bill $30 per month to do so; would that be OK? Hell it is only $1 per day. Surely a resident of TV can afford that measly amount.
Same BS logic applies to minimum wage.

I still want to know where the $15 need came from!

:thumbup:

A mandated minimum wage of $15 will only hasten the use of robotic machines to displace what were traditional entry level jobs typically filled by young adults and older teens .

Reportedly about 33% of American adults once worked at a minimum wage job in the " Fast Food Industry " .

Good for you, but being a good person, doesn't make
your beliefs more valid than another's.
By the way, if you have to brag about your volunteer work,
your motives may be suspect!

be-eye-en-gee-oh!!

Never EVER intended to be a career paying type employment.

ENTRY LEVEL!!!! Is it day light or dark out....employment test!!!

No, I was not bragging about volunteer work. I was told by a poster to do something instead of just talking liberalism. I merely replied as to what things I do - as well as play golf twice a week.

No, I do not say I am a good person nor are my views anymore important than a conservatives views. Follow your conscience.

Do you believe only liberals volunteer to help others.
I know a lot of conservatives that contribute $$$, do volunteer work, and they also play golf.

But IMHO a mandated minimum wage
does more harm than good.

I'm glad the first jobs I ever had paid very little,
because they gave me the motivation to go to college.

I know plenty of Liberals AND Conservatives who volunteer at various things and donate money. Some even play golf.

The Federal minimum wage has been around since 1938. My first job was $1.25 per hour while I was attending college - before the Army.

Since minimum wage has been around since 1938, I doubt if it will ever go away.

As others pointed out: minimum wage is a shell game. How much of an increase do you want to give and then the product price goes up to cover that increase, all wages will go up too and everyone will be right back where they were...

The labor union's ship sailed many years ago, they did a great job of running the non unions pricing up (the non union contractor only has to be a little less, obviously the non union can out perform the union slugs in the field, thus better profits for the non union). The unions are parasites on the members offering substandard returns on investment (tiered pension plans!). Absolute piece of **** people run unions (wasting money erecting inflatable rats instead of motivating their members to be the best labor force out there).

Not only will your burger go up at Cody's, everything will go up. Sadly for you (I am assuming you are retired) your income will not be increased. So; go ahead big spender lobby for $15.

STOCK UP ON AMMO!

I'm not an economist but do understand the effect of wages, having worked in a union manufacturing sector that is almost completely gone in this country. Raising minimum wage high enough to support a family will only work where consumers don't have a choice, that is how we lost our manufacturing base. That is why Walmart is king, people are talking with their wallets. There are very few private sector jobs that are left that fall in that category. Only public sector jobs where the consumer has no choice are wages healthy but at a very high cost to country long term. Problem is I believe almost all public sector jobs pay $15 an hour already.

A $15 minimum wage would cause thousands of small businesses to go out of business because consumers would care about prices increases. Have you ever owed a small business? If a business can raise prices they do it to increase profits. But, the Democrats want to raise the minimum wage because they want small businesses to close. That way, the Government will get bigger and have more control over everything.

Well, $15 is not enough, can't afford my BMW on that wage!:popcorn:

There are a number of independent influencing factors to this discussion unions, market value, competitiveness, inflation, right to work and federal government interferences/regulations.

The topic is minimum wage. Minimum wage suggests that people are automatically entitled to a certain amount and ignores the value of a specific job to a company. Federal law dictates to a business owner what s/he will pay a worker vis a vis the market. The market is a better indicator than government.

In the beginning unions did serve people well in promoting better working conditions, increase wages, etc. However now they exist primarily as means to an end for politicians. My focus here is on public unions. compare identical private to public jobs and you will see in most cases that public jobs pay substantially more have extraordinary benefits and you can't fire anyone.
It is an oxymoron to consider bargaining rights for public workers because the people vested to bargain with public unions are your duly elected representatives and they of course have developed a quid pro quo relationship with unions (ie you vote for me and I;ll vote for you.
You can't fire incompetent government workers teachers, etc Meanwhile the liabilities on future benefits pensions etc are so out of synch that its sinking everyone. and who do you think will pay the pied piper taxpayers of course.

As to core operations such as longshoreman, and the home/ commercial building, auto industry do unions help or hinder?

Why doesn't Silicon Valley need unions? do you believe a toll and die maker in this day and age needs a union to help boost its market value?

Personal Best Regards:

Apology accepted.....:D

So when the price of EVERYTHING increases, so that suppliers can remain in business with roughly DOUBLE the minimum wage costs, WHERE will that put the CONSUMER, whose LIMITED INCOME is solely from retirement or disability ? My wife and I are in this situation and we can BARELY pay our living expenses, NOW, including our ever-increasing MEDICAL bills.

We have to drive a 1996 Ford Ranger on Disability and Social Security, and neither of us are able to work. This is not a humorous situation for us.

If you look at the ratio of earned income to unearned income in this country it would not be hard to see the problem. For this comparison I call earned income wages the are being paid to an employee for work done or hours performed. Unearned is SS, Medicare, pensions, stock market, welfare, earned income credit, disabilities, or any income received without working during same time period. That ratio is tipping or has already tipped over. I just think it's another way to look at the economy. I also don't have that number just something to discuss but I suspect it is inverted.

So, for residents of The Villages, it is almost ALL unearned income?

In that case, The Villages definitely IS NOT the place for you to live. You could live a lot cheaper in another area. Any trailer park in the South would welcome you.

If it were not for the liberals, you would not even be receiving Disability and Social Security. You would be living in a refrigerator box under a bridge.

Sounds like you are looking for a new neighbor.

Yea especially since I'll loose my food stamps, healthcare and free phone.

You will "loose" your food stamps? Are they "tight" now?

Maybe you should take advantage of the free education bennies and get your GED.

Or during your working years you would have had a lot more money in your take home pay each week and you could have then responsibly invested it and today you would have a very large sum for your retirement .
Instead the gvt took it and gave you a paltry return on all of those dollars they took from you for social security and other pay day deductions .

:thumbup:

Depending on what part of the country that family of four lives in, you would have to make at least $50K a year, and more if you live up North. So that means you would want the minimum wage to be substantially more than $15 per hour. Don't take this personal, but what an idiot.

Bull.


The right wants to talk about how it would destroy the economy, all the while they have no problem hiring illegals that present but a minimum of false documentation. As long as the paperwork looks good with a quick glance, they're happy they can pay low wages. Just take a look around here at the number of workers who can't speak English. Do you really think they are all here legally? Do you really think the developer doesn't know they are illegal? Really?

And then there's the consumers who rail against a living wage, but scream even louder at paying more for those items made by Americans. The above 'landscapers' are the perfect example. The same people who have no qualms subsidizing multi-billion dollar corporations with welfare/food stamps for those that ARE working, would absolutely scream if their amenity fee were adjusted to where it probably should be (+-$500 month) if American workers were employed and paid a living wage. No one with any common sense, can say that the cost of keeping this place so beautiful only costs $150 a month by those who live here.

If anyone REALLY wants to slow/stop illegal immigration, go after those that are hiring them.

It would only take a few high profile CEO's going to jail, to change things almost overnight.

While I am smart enough to know that the rumor that GE paid no taxes a few years ago is false, I'm also smart enough to know that the effective tax rate of the biggest corporations is less than what the average citizen pays.

It boggles the mind that so many of you on the right look away at companies who pay their workers (often illegal) low wages and then let hard-working Americans pick up the tab for welfare/food stamps so that they and their family's can survive.

It indicates something is very wrong with your basic decency and human values.

So please explain to me why your ilk continually uses the stereotype of the 'Welfare Queen' (typically a large black woman with numerous children) as a problem, but happily ignore subsidizing corporations making billions a year in profits?

I'll wait for your answer, because I'm really curious as to how you justify it. :popcorn:

So back to the minimum wage.

Do I think it should necessarily be $15 an hour? No, I don't.

Do I think it should be around $9-$11 an hour? Yeah, that's probably the right range.

Now ask me if I think that EVERY farm/energy/retail/etc. subsidy should be eliminated, so that these corporations can reduce the tax burden on hardworking American citizens?

You're damned right I do!!

That doesn't mean that we shouldn't look hard at helping those industries that may be having trouble, but have a good chance at recovering with a little federal help.

The automotive industry is the perfect example. While some people still refuse to believe the LOANS ('almost' wholly repaid since) given to them saved hundreds of thousands of jobs and have resulted in a resurgence in the American automotive industry, the facts are just sitting there for anyone who can tear their eyes away from Faux News long enough to go look them up.

And yes, I realize that my very nice investment returns might not be quite as high as they have been since Obama has been in the WH, as long as big corp's aren't skating on paying what they should...I can live with it.

I look at it as doing my patriotic duty.

Back to speaking of news outlets, there have been a number of studies that show those who only get their information from Faux News are the least informed of actual facts. Behind them are those that only listen to the left's equivalent...CNBC.

Whereas the most informed are those that listen to NPR. When I mentioned this to a neighbor, she actually asked... "what is NPR?" :oops:

And yes, her TV was always turned to Faux News (which is what precipitated my comment). :1rotfl:

Wanting to actually get as much info (NOT op-ed pieces) as possible, is the reason that I not only listen to Faux News and CNBC, I also subscribe to Forbes, Time, Newsweek, Fortune Inc., Bloomberg, The New Yorker and a few others. That way I can get a good cross section of particular subjects and then make up my own mind.

Because I'm also smart enough to know that the 'truth,' most often lies in middle/grey area and is almost never black/white.

OK, this is the point where the rant stops and those who are too lazy to expend the effort to present a balanced, cogent rebuttal.....just call me a 'libtard.' :1rotfl:


CNM
(On another note, at least I will give you credit Rubicon for identifying yourself and not hiding behind your keyboard)

But for cripes sake, quit lying already. You don't really mean "PERSONAL BEST REGARDS" to everyone. :D

Awesome!

And thank you for your service. :thumbup:

CNM