Universal Healthcare for ALL Americans
 

Remember when Bill Clinton asked Hillary to come up with a plan for Americans?

Remember how Michael Moore was demonized by many for his Documentary Movie Sicko?

I recently rented the movie and thought Moore had some very good points. Looking at the developing crisis in healthcare in the US and the loss of insurance, out of sight drug costs and folks without any health insurance coverage, I believe it is time to re-examine our national priorities and to re-visit Universal healthcare for all. At least folks should view Moore's film and see what has been accomplished in France, England and Canada and Cuba. Maybe there is a better way.

The old arguments about socialized medicine no longer are relevant in my opinion. What happened to the promises to give all of us the same coverage as the members of Congress? We would be fortunate to have the same treatment as do the detainees in Gitmo, according to Moore.

I would hope that seasonal visitors from England, Canada and France would offer their opinions based on their experiences, to this discussion.

I'm a right wing wacko from way back.... apple pie, guns, a pick-up truck, a cold beer and country music.... BUT... our health care system is BROKEN... it is a fragmented, expensive, inefficient system. I (gulp) support a single payor system similar to Canada/Great Britain.

I am listening Dr. H and I do respect your opinion, but gosh this is hard to absorb.

Hollywood Beach, Florida is awash in Canadians during the winter. I work amongst them. We have spoken about this topic many times. They pretty much agree...their medical system is great, as long as you never get sick.

Though I am a U.S. citizen, my family is from Canada; in fact, I have cousins from Montreal who winter in Hollywood Beach. Most of my cousins are in a financial position to be able to afford private health insurance on top of what the government provides; however, none of them (all in varying degrees of health) have it as they all say the system works fine and they don't need the additional.

Here's a story from within the U.S.: I know someone who must go for a blood test every two weeks or so for a potentially life-threatening condition, a 'stat' test meaning that the blood-drawing facility must send someone to pick up the specimen immediately to take it for processing. The cost for this test is about $28. However, the patient's insurance company has 'negotiated' with the lab to accept slightly under $3 to perform this test; if the lab didn't accept it, then they could not service this insurance company's patients.

How can a lab stay in business performing a stat test like this for under $3? To me the real question is, 'Who pays $28 for the test if insurance companies negotiate such a low payment?' And the answer? 'Oh, the uninsured must pay the full amount in order for the lab to continue in business.'

Someone tell me that our system isn't 'broken'....

That is great to hear. I will go and tell my Canadian customers that they are all liars and don't know what they are talking about. :D

They were complaining about how it might take 6 weeks to see a doctor. The convenience of it all was the major concern and not being able to see a doctor when they needed one. Not the actual quality of the health care.

Does everyone have a "right" to all health care?
 

Does everyone have a "right" to all health care? Do all have the "right" to the same or equal health care? Is there a situation when especially expensive health procedures should be more readily available to those who have more resources to pay for them? Should "elective" procedures be available only to those with financial resources? When the time comes to prioritize certain procedures like organ replacement, should the patient's past or lifestyle be a determining factor (long-time smoker, high-pressure job, bad eating habits, drug use, homosexual promiscuity) and who should make these decisions? What about age? Any other social considerations?





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Buckeye, obviously your Canadian customers have had some negative experiences. I sincerely doubt they are lying to you.

My family's experience has been that our Canadian family doctor can usually see us the same day if it is important. Also, Ontario offers many free walk-in clinics, where immediate medical attention is available.

Universal Healthcare! Yeah!
 

I'm backing Bare on this one all the way. I was astonished at the tests she had that were fully paid for. We keep in touch all the time she is in Canada, so I know what she's talking about. Our bills for those same tests would be astronomical.

I actually have friends back in Illinois, in their 50's and up that do not go to doctor's because they cannot afford them. My very dear friend, lost her job, has many pre-existing conditions and can't afford to go to the doctor.

Some of you don't seem to find that sad in this country. Well I do. Our system is indeed broken --- the the said part is American's can't afford a doctor to fix it. :ohdear:

I guess I need to know more who the thread is aimed at?
 

Is it for seniors who are on Medicare?
Or for those who can not afford health care?

Isn't life, like it or not, based on what one can afford?

Anyway if the abuse of the current programs were dealt with, there would be substantial amounts of moneys available for better coverages.

However, how does any system intended to benefit those who cannot pay not in turn negatively affect those who have found a way to pay all their lives?
Remember in the can't afford group are those who choose not to pay and do other things with their $$$. They will free load like they do all the other freebies.

This problem will not be solved. Once again we are contemplating wrecking a system that works for the majority to take care of the minority.

The good of the many forsaken for the good of a few....does not work!!!


BTK

It's Not All About You!
 

See, this is exactly what I find so intolerable about the Right Wingers. It's that "It's all about Me" attitude. I think you have your statistics backwards. Most cannot afford good health care in this country! My husband and I are fortunate. We're not thinking of just "ourselves". If you can't see how broken our system is, you are living in your own little world! Good Luck with that. I hope it stays intact. Many others have been shaken out of theirs with a hemorrhaging economy. :yuck:

The term "right winger"...
 

is a moniker assigned to someone by some as it enables a predetermined catharsis of position. Very often missing the mark completely.

I for one am not a right winger. A label I suspect is intended for anybody on any subject that is not in alignment with the one making the accusation.

I do consider myself a constructive non conformist which automatically does not fit the intended's measuring profile and will at times most likely disagree with the position of the measuring individual, hence triggering the usual partisan barrage.

As for the Me first.....Chels, you have absolutely no clue how wrong you are on that application. Fits well in the speech you made from your position....but terribly wrong!!

BTK

Back on topic please
 

Let's please get back to the topic and leave the politics in the political forum.

I believe Muncle put it in the Medical Forum for a reason.

Dunno!
 

I apologize if I am wrong about you BTK, but your words don't speak this.:shrug: But you're right about one thing -- I shouldn't have used right winger, I should have used self-centered.

I agree Whalen. I did not expect a political shot
 

in this forum
Seems it is just too deeply ingrained for some to manage...it does interrupt positive thinking does it not?

And my closing response to the uninformed is to only repeat what was obviously not digested the first time and is so very, VERY true as confirmed by the snap back....

"...does not fit the intended's measuring profile and will at times most likely disagree with the position of the measuring individual, hence triggering the usual partisan barrage..."

As demonstrated time and again. See ya in the political arena!

BTK

This is such an outdated argument on so many levels.
The point is to provide an opportunity for basic health care for all. The fact is we have a ridiculously fractured and ineffcient system that provides relatively little for the massive amount of doallars spent. There are several countries that spend less than us and provide overall better care by internatinally accepted standards.
Wrecking a system that works???? For who? Perhaps you but not not for about a million working families that can't afford health care, not for those stuck with only medicaire on extremely fixed incomes, not for children whose families are to poor to get care. It is a pitiful shame that our country is so poor in our response to this situation with these groups among others.
This is not about "..freeload like they do all the other freebies". We are not talking about people who "refuse to pay and do other things with there dollars" as the majority. I know, I live and work and watch people struggle and die within this system EVERY DAY with finacial constraints being a large contributer.
Those of us in the real world of medicine, in the trenches every day, know this is NOT a "system that works" by almost any measure. This isn't about punishing welfare abusers, this is about doing the right thing for our country, our healthcare system, and the providers struggling within that system. Health care and its provision require ethical considerations that don't fit the "I've got mine, you do the best you can to get yours" model, nor does it fit traditional and corporate models in a cookie cutter fashion.
The abuse within the programs certainly should be culled, as or even more importantly so should the overwhelming stifling beauracratic stranglehold that is likely one of the biggest culprits along with immoral and greedy insurance companies, HMO's, PPO's and more.
Cudo's to countries that took responsibility to make sure the health care of the people (ALL, not just the rich or those on welfare) was a priority. Cudos to them for delivering in a more efficient and humane way with better outcomes than we have been able to do thus far.
No system is perfect but to ascertain that ours is working just fine is so far from the truth as to be ludicrous.

What are the costs for prescription drugs? Just wondering how they handle that...are they covered 100 percent as well?

I don't think that everyone should have the right to a free, universal health care. I think certain criteria should be met. I think you should be a U.S. citizen to get free U.S. health care. Would Canada treat me for free?

There should be some set of universal rules that people must comply with to have these privileges...shouldn't there? Man, I sure wouldn't want that job...Being a taxpayer might help to pay for some of the expenses...but how can you exclude non taxpayers? This is such a huge question...the system is so messed up...and for so long...it could be beyond fixing. A single aspirin costs 10 bucks in some hospitals! [Which is a good deal compared to what our Army spends on paper clips]

Shady lawyers sued the medical profession out of its soul. People that poison there bodies with cigarettes and alcohol, yet have no money or insurance have been sucking the taxpayers teat until it is bone dry. Just go to the county hospital...they have to take you...pay the bill? Yeah, right. And all of those illegal aliens...great...we are paying for them as well.

First, we need to find a way to lower the costs. If we cannot do that...how can we afford it? Then, you just about have to include EVERYBODY. Smokers and all. How can we discriminate about health care? We are to help the least amongst us...

No such thing as free
 

There is no such thing as free. The question is are we going to force taxpayers to pay for the needs of non taxpayers including their:
education, preschool, grade school, high school, college, technical,
school lunches
mortgages people cant afford, interest and principal
transportation
the needs of all their children including octomom
their sexual needs, birth control, pregnancies,
rent
gas and electric
cell phone
internet lines for non profitable areas like rural areas
bank bailouts
company bailouts
uninsured flooded homes
uninsured tornado damaged homes; I dont need insurance anymore.
mental health care
family counseling
AND medical care
A LOT more that I invite all of you to add.
I have a right to free medical care and everything else I want and I will vote for any politician who promises to confiscate someone else's money to pay for my needs and desires.
You cant take the politics out of FREE medical.
NOTHING IS FREE.
p.s. Not only do I want free, I want the BEST free.. so I am going to Ted Kennedys doctors. I DESERVE the BEST FREE.
Why the heck am I still working???? I should quit my job right now and move to the villages and live there FREE forever!!
Who will do the work?
I dont know and I dont care if it is FREE for ME.
I have to go now. I have to get to work.

My Experience
 

A few years ago, while visiting London, I fell on the cobblestone walks in Nottinghill. My friends found a helpful person in a store who called a cab and got me to a "neighborhood emergency." I signed in with my name only. Someone came out and asked the details of the accident. My front teeth had bitten through my chin and my elbow was hurt. In about 10 minutes I was called to an exam room. A nurse (I assume) looked at my mouth and used "super glue" (or whatever) to glue the injury inside my mouth back together and stop the bleeding. Today I have a large lump inside my mouth that continues to cause me problems. Then I was x-rayed and told that my elbow was broken. It was put into a sling and told that I could have it set when I got home (to the US) or be put on a list for surgery in a London hospital! Fortunately, I was able to fly home the next day. I agree with whoever said that the system works great as long as you're not sick or injured.

I am also a Canadian seasonal resident. I have never known life without universal health care and I am glad of it. I raised five children and never once hesitated in taking them to a doctor if they were sick or injured. I feel secure in knowing that whatever happens to me or my children we will be well taken care of by the health care that we have in Canada.

That is not to say that Health care in Canada does not have its problems. There is a shortage of family doctors mostly because some of them are tempted by the money that can be made by relocating to the USA. Also there are longer wait times to see specialists or have optional surgeries.

I agree that nothing is free and certainly Canadians pay for health care with higher taxes.

I have been blessed with good health but have witnessed several health emergencies with relatives in the last few years and I remain confident in the Canadian Health Care System.

I bet you that those Canadians who are complaining would not want to change places with those who do not have Universal Health Care.

Interesting article
 

This from today's N.Y. Times Headlines online edition serves to further illustrate a problem with healthcare delivery in US. Maybe having better scans would lead to fewer surgeries. Is this what happens elsewhere too? I wonder.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/02/he..._r=1&th&emc=th

Is Universal Healthcare fair? see Matthew:25,31-46
 

31
"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne,
32
and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33
He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34
Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35
For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,
36
naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.'
37
Then the righteous will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
38
When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
39
When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?'
40
And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41
Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42
For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
43
a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.'
44
Then they will answer and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?'
45
He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.'
46
And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

what happens if you need care while in The Villages or elsewhere?
 

I had tenants last fall who had to leave early to go back to Canada for emergency surgery. Is that the only option? What happens if you have a heart attack or something while you're in the States?

I have to say I wholeheartedly support some type of national healthcare here in the US of A, just don't know exactly what.

While traveling
 

In the movie Sicko, Michael Moore spoke to Canadians (family members) who were traveling to US. They purchased insurance policies at Sears to cover them while in the US. No mention of cost or exactly what coverage was provided.

I am Canadian and if I required any kind of medical care while travelling in the States I would have to pay for it but would be reimbusrsed ,at the rate paid by the Ontario Hospital Insurance Plan (OHIP). I would have to pay the balance. To prevent this problem from occuring I can purchase Travel Insurance which would pick up the whole cost and then be reimbursed by the portion covered by OHIP.

If there is a medical emergency the Insurance company tries to get you back to Canada ASAP since once you are home OHIP covers all care needed.

The doctor in the States makes the decision if you can be transported without risk to your condition.

If you can not be moved then all your costs are paid by the Insurance company.

Lots of good firsthand inormation here. Thanks and keep it coming, want to hear from all of you with experiences within the system....it is so much more valuable than heresay and second hand info. Thanx for you efforts.

Thank you for sharing these comments. I would love to have a Universal HC here. We must have insurance for our children. They pick up so many germs and illnesses from being in school.

I am not yet insured in my position as there is a significant waiting period. Cobra is SO expensive that I had to make a decision on who gets the insurance. I pay privately for my daughter, but can not afford any additional for myself. I have to just keep my fingers crossed and be very careful. The stress that health insurance coverage brings to a family is at times unbearable.

I know there are many early retirees that are in similar circumstances. They have to private pay for health insurance or go back to work just for health care coverage.

I also know there are government programs available to those that can't afford health care. Well what about those of us who just make "too much"....even if it is by $1 a month....it does not matter.

There must be an answer.

I have lived in Canada for many years and also have lived in the USA. Somehow Canadians feel their medical system is free. Listen 45-50% of the Canadian Tax dollars go towards medical care. As a Canadian resident one third of my income goes towards taxes. Not including the extra taxes I pay for anything I buy.

Having worked for a national van line for several years, I would have to use a calculator to mention the number of doctors I have personaly moved from Canada to the USA. They are top of the line doc's that are involved in surgery and or specialists. Number one they have a difficlut time getting hospital rights for surgery because they have to use the hospital and hospital only. Personaly I required a special injection which had to be done in the hospital. I waited for 3 hours, the doc waited for 3 hours, just because the linen was not ready in the surgery room. I asked the doc how do you make any money. He said 3 hours is nothing my friend, I can make more money selling shoes.

One of our fine provinces Saskatchewan, has free medicine. I have several relatives and friends in this province. Their cupboards of full of medicine, they look like pharmacy. When asked what are they for, the answer was well they are free.

I have personally experienced being in an accident in which case my nerves where severerly damaged in the hip area from the injury. Yes everything was free. Cost me nothing, but I was bounced around from doctor to doctor, because most of the general practioners( doc's) like you coming back because it takes 2 minutes for them to give general information. But if you want a referral you will wait for 3 to 6 months like I did. Then the referral will give you another referral and you wait for another 3-6 months. But yes after 5 years in my case I was sent to a specialist that perhaps was very good, and yes they found the problem. I would have gladly paid $100,000 out of my own pocket to have had the problem solved 5 years earlier. The pain was unbearable. But yes after 5 years they found the problem.

We have very close friends and relatives that live in the USA, and yes they have to pay for premuims for insurance. Yes I too had to pay for premiums in the USA. But in the USA you have the best doctors, the best hospitals and the lastest technology in the world for proper modern up todate treatment. Not in 5 years but now.

Our tax rate in Canada is more than double the tax rate I paid for the same salary in the USA. So if my tax in Canada is $60,000 per year and 45 % goes to health care , my health care premuims in fact are $27,000 per year.

If you pay $20,000 personal tax in Canada and 45% goes towards towards health care you are actualy paying $9,000 in premuims. But some people think it is free. In fact most Canadians think it is free. Go figure! I would rather have paid the $2,000-$4,000 personal insurance premiums that I paid when living in the USA and get the best in Medicial.

I congratulate the Villages for having the most modern medical facilities. It just blows me away to see the rows and rows of medical buildings. All brand new, all with the lastest in medical equipment, and yes I don't mind paying for the premiums for insurance coverage in the USA. But I do know its the best medical available. And yes at the Villages for some very serious medical cases you are offer the new meds that available paid for by the insurance company. But if you asked the government to pay for the same, they will not do it. So do as some of friends of ours did, they died. But it was free.

If Canadians travel in the USA, they buy travel insurance. (My husband's employment provides travel insurance for us). As Mom2five pointed out, in the event of a serious illness, the Insurance Company will try to airlift you back to Canada if possible. If you cannot be moved, the Insurance Company will pay for treatment in the USA.

Prescriptions are not covered. However many Canadian corporations and unions provide this benefit for employees. Also, it is my understanding that if you are below a certain income level, there is a government plan available.

Taxes are very high in Canada, that is completely true. Of course the system is not "free"! Obviously it is funded by taxpayers. But if you suffer from a catastrophic illness such as cancer, stroke or heart attack, you will receive the very best care. If you have a serious health care situation that requires cat scans, MRIs, etc., they are readily available.

My humble opinion is based solely on my own personal experiences.

I'm all for it!
 

My husband won't be 65 until August. He can't wait! I hate to hear him say this. It's like he's burning daylight or wishing his life away! Why???? Because we pay $1,700 a month for insurance! And it's bad insurance at that! I still have several years to go before I'm 65, but I just see him wishing his days away so at least one of us is on Medicare! That sucks! :cus: I'm all for Universal Healthcare!

I am still wondering how the Canadian system handles prescription drugs. Are they free? How does it work?

The Canadian healthcare system does not cover dental costs or prescription drugs for people under the age of 65. Unless you are hospitalized. (But I think that perhaps low-income people can apply for these benefits).

Many Canadian corporations, government employees and teachers receive dental and prescription coverage as part of their benefit package.

Okay, Canada's health system is sensational and we should all move to Alberta or Val d'Or except for the friggin' snow and low temps. It's been interesting to hear how much of the taxes go to health care. I don't know diddly about Canadian tax structure, if it is nearly as biased as the US, but if such a health system were imported into this country, we would end up with 50% of the population paying absolutely nothing --- they don't pay taxes, remember --- and the top 10% will end up with yet another mandate.

But regardless of the economic factors, why does it matter? Hancle's bible quote was nice, but has no bearing on reality. The Canadian program may have universal coverage, especially very supportive of the needy, but Canadians have no choice as to whether they wish to help those who didn't win life's lottery. Does that win any points on the Savior Scale?

But I reiterate my questions from a few days ago:


Does everyone have a "right" to all health care? Do all have the "right" to the same or equal health care? Is there a situation when especially expensive health procedures should be more readily available to those who have more resources to pay for them? Should "elective" procedures be available only to those with financial resources? When the time comes to prioritize certain procedures like organ replacement, should the patient's past or lifestyle be a determining factor (long-time smoker, high-pressure job, bad eating habits, drug use, homosexual promiscuity) and who should make these decisions? What about age? Any other social considerations?

Yes, there are major problems with our health care system, many/most of them financial. As far as I can see, everyone is to blame, i.e., medical professionals, insurance companies, blood sucking trial lawyers, drug companies, governments, both state and especially federal, and most importantly, we, the people. The health care system is a massive creature, ultra convoluted at best. There is no quick fix. All the players involved must make changes and the changes must be reasonable. Putting price caps on drugs would play well in the Daily Kos and on MSNBC, but unless it is done intelligently, it could spell the end of the development of new meds or at least severely hamper it. It's obvious that insurance companies and especially Medicare grossly underpay for many services. Doctors and hospitals have a legitimate complaint. If both were forced to increase these payments, remember that those costs will be passed to the members.

All in all, it is a real conundrum as to what can be done, and more critically, what should be done.





`

Don't get sick
 

Muncle. Every time I visit my roots in Canada I get sticker shock. I compare my wages and taxes to my Canadian friends. Their medical care is not free because they are taxed to death. Watch out if you need a non critical operation. After a lengthy wait two of my friends traveled to USA and payed out of pocket to have procedures.

:shrug::shrug::shrug:

Does everyone have a right to all healthcare? Obviously a philosophical question to a great degree. For those of us working frontline in healthcare everyday I think the majority might answer with a yes, certainly with some caveats.
Is there a situation when especially expensive health procedures should be more readily available to those who have more resources to pay for them.?[/B] Probably with regard to some elective procedures, otherwise no. Most developed countries of the world determined some time back that equitable delivery of healthcare is indeed a right to some degree. Does everyone get free boob jobs and face lifts? Nah, but the delivery of basic healthcare in todays world really should be a right, especially in developed countries that have the capability. Should only people with with greater financial means get the best/state of the art care for heart disease, stroke, cancer etc? The idea is aborrhent to those of us treating people with these and other tragic conditions.
Should "elective" procedures be available only to those with financial resources?[/ A loaded question that that requires some clarification. Certainly some elective procedures like cosmetic procedures done for more or less vanity purposes should be dependent on your financial ability to pay for them. An "elective" hip or knee replacement is a different story though. While not acutely fractured, the joint may be so degenerated as to cause pain and compromised function. Certainly this type of elective procedure falls in a different category. If your mother needed the joint replacement to have a better quality of life and relieve pain even though she could still "walk" would you deny her this procedure based on her finances? Would you deny it if she was obese and that contributed to the joint degeneration?
When the time comes to prioritize certain procedures like organ replacement, should the patient's past or lifestyle be a determining factor (long-time smoker, high-pressure job, bad eating habits, drug use, homosexual promiscuity) and who should make these decisions? What about age? Any other social considerations?[/COLOR] Certainly in some instances, as is already the case. Those with liver failure secondary to alcohlism have to show some period of abstinence before being considered for placement on the transplant list no matter the severity of it (I believe 6 mos. in some cases).High pressure job??? Not sure how that could ever be construed as a reason to ethically deny anyone parity of healthcare delivery, and would be wildly innapropriate. Eating habits?? Again unreasonable in today's world as it would preclude at least half of the population of our country, including children. Have you seen the obesity statistics? Homosexual promiscuity?? A completely innapropriate statement. Where was the inclusion of heterosexual promiscuity? And again, this would preclude massive numbers of people from receiving care for sexually transmitted diseases and HIV (I assume your point) leaving others without knowledge of that promiscuity at great risk and with no protection. Age? Yes, age limits much of the success in some major procedures and intervention. Social considerations? Would need some clarification but sounds morally reprehensible.
Lets look at the financial problems and realities of our system.We as Americans spent 16% of our GNP last year on healthcare. That is 16% of the total value of all goods and services from all of the industries in the United States, a staggering amount by any measure, and more per person than any country in the world. This is projected to increase to at least 20% of GNP by 2017-a projected 4.3 trillion dollars if we just continue things as they are. Even more shocking is that 5% of the population accounted for for more than half the costs in more than one study!
What are we getting for our dollars? We have higher infant mortality rates and lower adjusted life expectancy than mutiple other countries, ranking 41st and 46th respectively. Is this acceptable for a country spending more on healthcare than any other country on earth? These are just two of multiple areas where we rank intolerably low.
The U.S. is the only country in the developed world except South Africa that does not provide healthcare for all of its citizens as a matter of policy. Instead we do it in a horribly inefficient way with a hodge-podge system of private pay, private insurance, and multiple non-coordinated government programs burdened with beuracratic and administrative costs. Over 30% of healthcare costs are estimated to be administrative in the U.S. How utterly innefecient and wasteful.
Massive changes do have to be made and are way overdue, and a long slow "phasing in" is not a good solution. We have to be willing to make changes in liability reform, decreasing the massive beauracracy and the profits and incentives built in for certain individuals involved in perpetuating the mess. We have to be more realistic about what is reasonable to deliver and to whom. We need to look at reimbursments for doctors, nurses, therapists and more that are involved in delivering primary care, paradoxically the most difficult and time consuming care with the lowest reimbursement rates (see the rapidly dropping numbers entering primary care as our population ages). We need to make use of the massive amount of money so ineffeciently wasted, streamlining the process and disincentivizing waste and profits made of the backs of the sick. We need to make pateints accountable for self destructive habits like smoking and noncompliance with medications. Even more importantly we need the input and participation of real people working within the system and patients of the system, NOT more beuracrats and professional academicians with no real world experiences.
Bold and yes, some painful decisions and adjustments in expectations are in order. The system is already failed, and on the precipice of complete collapse.

Evertime I spend six months in the USA, I am astonished at how inexpensive everything is. Canadian medical care is definitely not free .. it is funded by tax payers. However Canadians aren't really "taxed to death"! Many Canadians are able to own homes in Florida and spend half the year here. But Canadian tax rates are definitely higher. And we have giagantic "sin" taxes on cigarettes, alcohol, etc.

For every "horror story" I hear about the Canadian health care system, I know of ten great stories about people getting immediate help when they need it. I personally have had some non-critical surgeries with no problems with wait times.

Every country struggles with health care dilemmas. Canada is currently struggling with a "two-tier" health care proposal. Those who are wealthy could shoot to the top of the heap. The rest would wait in line. But the line would be shorter because the wealthy would be using private facilities.

I couldn't agree more! I do not intend this to be a political statement, but I've been told that my politics (which I choose not to discuss in any context) comes through when I say in the same breath that I have always had excellent health coverage while at the same time I am deeply troubled by those who simply cannot afford health care AND by the attitude of those who have excellent care who assume that anyone who doesn't is automatically a freeloader and a manipulator of the system. I worked as a volunteer with a field-based Hospice in our rural corner of New York State, and I have NEVER seen people MORE victimized by insurance companies at a time when they are LEAST able to deal with it.

I posted earlier in this thread about my Canadian family's positive experiences with the Canadian health care system, and none see it as 'free.' Most of my family, requiring varying degrees of health care, can afford private insurance but don't have it because they say they don't need it.

Many of you know of my accident in December when I wrecked my hand so badly that only now am I finding out that the hand surgeon and the hand physical therapist, looking at the x-rays, together wondered how much function I'd ever be able to get back. Well, it's coming back--slowly and almost miraculously. Today I received in the mail the Explanation of Benefits for the physician's assistant who essentially took my grotesque, broken hand and put it back together in The Villages Hospital ER, to the point that the hand surgeon said that he (the PA) had already done her (the MD's) job! He spent hours with me, competent and compassionate--and I learned today that his total charge was a munificent $413. HOWEVER, the insurance company had 'negotiated' with him to accept what IT was willing to pay, and he had no choice but to accept if he is to practice his skills. So ... from the $413 was immediately subtracted $319.15, making his total payment for his incredible services to me a 'whopping' $93.85.

Yes, this incredibly outstanding physician's assistant might do better financially by selling shoes. How can he continue practicing what he trained for, just as I questioned earlier how the lab doing the blood test for someone I know stay in business on the less than $3 it's paid by the insurance companies for doing a stat test. Of course, as the lab technician explained to me, it's the uninsured who pay full freight and therefore cover the actual costs for the insured! Is THIS socialism? For the number of hours that the PA spent with me, our oldest son, a grocery clerk in a supermarket in upstate New York, earns more! Don't tell me this system isn't broken....

We could not wait to become teenagers. Then to be 18. Then 21. How about 62? And then 65.

Mr. B. and I each have access through our former employers. But we watch our contributions to the premiums rise rapidly with each renewal. And we know that retiree insurance not provided under a contract can be cut off. Sometimes we wonder when that shoe might drop.

But at least, for now, we have access to decent, recognized group plans. But that does not make me any less concerned about the enormity of the health care issue. It's a big picture. And we are all in it.

We have friends who are working hard and working tired, trying to at least get one to Medicare before they can retire.

I bet stress related health issues might decrease if people could retire at an earlier age without having to lie awake wondering how to pay for health insurance -- if they can even get it.

The people I know are not looking for a free ride. They just wish that there were somewhere they could buy a "ticket to ride" at a reasonable price.

Access to good plans. Affordable access. Just let us buy into that plan DC has. At a reasonable cost. Or buy into Medicare early. Access to affordable retiree health insurance would not only help out with stress issues that can lead to physical health issues, but retiree health plan access would open jobs to younger people. And it would help business, too.

I know there are many our age who take retiree health insurance for granted because they have retired from jobs where the access to good coverage goes with the territory. That seems short-sighted to me.

Anyway, the solution does not need to be an either/or. The knee-jerk reaction to the fear of socialized medicine has allowed politicians not to solve this problem. They just push that socialized medicine button and people freak. And they freak loud. Push that either/or button and make the problem go away. Go away for those in DC who have their bloated behinds all covered, at our expense, in more ways than one.

And while the problem has been pushed to the back burner for all this time, greed has run amok in the health insurance business, just like the banking business. Talk about some bonus-reaping CEO's.

Make affordable access to good group plans available for buying into. Middle ground. Why is that so hard? And lives would be changed for the better. And it would help the economy. More disposable income. Business would get a break. And more people could retire and move to The Villages.

Boomer