A post from Lauren Ritchie
 

Hello once again, Villagers.

I wanted to let everyone on the TOTV forum know that the actual documents from both attorneys representing The Villages in the bond dispute are posted with my column.

Just go to the link at the top of this thread and click it. It brings up the first column, which ran on Sunday. Just below my picture in the column is a headline that says "Related Links". They are two separate PDF files (so you'll need Adobe Reader) that can be downloaded or simply viewed. They are letters from Perry Israel, the Villages' tax lawyer in California, and from Archie Lowry, the Mount Dora attorney who is the lawyer for the Village Center district.

Also, my column that will publish in the paper this coming Wednesday already is posted on the site at this link:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...4758757.column

You can copy and paste it into your browser or simply go to www.orlandosentinel.com/lake and scroll down to my picture.

Also, I'd like to invite everyone to check out my new blog. It's at www.orlandosentinel.com/laurenonlake In the next day or two, I hope to post something on the bond situation and to invite your comments.

I'm happy to see that folks in the Villages are watching this issue because I honestly believe it could have an impact on them in the long run.

To SteveZ: you gotta let it go, man. Not everyone is jealous of the Villages. If you enjoy the lifestyle, then it's heaven. But it's not for everybody. You can try to turn the discussion away from Villages actions and bonds with an accusation of jealousy, but most people on this forum simply are trying to inform themselves about an important issue and to discuss it intelligently with others. Surely you must realize that the nation's bond publications all are writing about this. I am far from the lone "jealous" voice.

And I don't know where you think I live, but you apparently have incorrectly assumed it is Orlando, for the second time. To clear the record: I live in Lake County just like many Villagers, and I have lived here 29 years. That's why I am so passionate about things that affect this county and its residents. I own a home in the Lake Jem area which I built a few years ago and which you can verify by going to the property appraiser's website online and typing in my name. It's a public record, as are deed recordings in the clerk's online service that will confirm for you that I have owned homes continuously in Lake County since I bought my first one in 1981. I hope that clears up any confusion you may harbor that I am some far-flung columnist commenting on something she has no stake in.

Rest assured, SteveZ does not speak for the majority of Villagers. Thanks for keeping us posted on the latest info.

Nor do you.

SteveZ routinely provides a reasonable, intelligent view on a variety of subjects. His comments are almost always more sensible and certainly less "snippy" than Ritchie's.

Before reading Ritchie's admittedly slanted columns (see her posting of a couple month ago where she proudly claimed to be a "columnist" rather than a reporter and was therefore not bound by a reporter's obligation to be fair and honest in her writing), please see Macbeth, Act 5, Scene 5.

Count me in with SteveZ.

I am glad I am hearing about all this "shenanigans" by the developer. I have been lured by the promise of "Utopia" too....BUT this IRS business has prompted me to delve a little deeper into the inner workings of TV.
I have worked for many developers and I know most of them to be very cost conscious. By developing so many homes, they have the costs pared down to the bare minimum. They have the materials, time and other factors involved down to a tee. This maximizes the profit they can attain. In business there are three things you can give your customers. Quality, quantity, and low cost ......BUT you cannot give all three at the same time. I have been hesitant to buy in TV due to several factors.

First off, the prices of homes being bought by everyone have been premium prices for Florida. The Villages is in the middle of a cow pasture.....not even near the coast where the prices are similar.

Second, The developer sold you your home based on "free Golf" and other amenities......The fees for these amenities were NOT included in the price of your home.....see amenities fees

Third, The developer then charged you a "bond" fee not charged anywhere else in Florida. Most places in Florida you buy a home and the "fees" are included.....even with all these extra fees included, the price of a home in Florida is still inexpensive.

Fourth, Let's look at comparable homes throughout Florida, You just do NOT get the same bang for your buck in TV as you would elsewhere. The value of The Villages is their amenities for which you pay a premium. My home is double the size of most in TV and is half the price.....with the savings, I can get a golf membership at an uncrowded course and play anywhere I would like.

Fifth, I had been concerned about build out. When a developer is still building in the development, he is concerned about keeping everything in excellent condition and "fees" very low to attract buyers. When build out occurs, the developer leaves and "fees" skyrocket. THIS IS THE NORM....not some dream I had, I have seen this repeatedly. Oh you own the amenities you say ! ....not quite
Someone (developer or cronies) owns not only the amenities, but the right to charge you more...... and they will exercise that right when able to.
The developer has found a way to sell homes on an old cow pasture for premium prices, get others to finance his amenities, which you all paid for but do not own, and build a "company store" in which you all live

It is the "company store" that none of you bought......just owe your sole to.

I'll go with Lauren - nice name, have a 12 YO granddaughter named Lauren, red head like her mom, my daughter.

Thanks for posting Lauren. Many of us are very concerned with this issue and appreciate your efforts in keeping us informed.


.

I think both have a point here. The bond deal is big, but on the other hand Steve Z ususally tries to put things in a point that most will understand and always has great information for us. This isnt the place to bash people because they have their on opinion or thought. I have a YELLOW FLAG ready to throw. Dont make me do it, but I am ready to flag someone for a personal foul here. Heck this one might make ESPN Sports Center Highlights. Everyone calm down, on the count of three take a big deep breath and repeat after me. IT IS JUST A FORUM BOARD WHERE ALL CAN BE FRIENDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THen grab a Vodka and OJ or what ever you drink, Toast the the Grand Ole USA and relax!!!!!!!!!!!! :beer3:

GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG Money OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Naw. I'm not feelin' the love Lauren. You may live in Lake County, but other than your job, in my humble opinion, you don't have a dog in this fight. You are younger, (I think) and can't possibly know how wonderful this place is.

What is the total population of Orlando? I have an old atlas. I think that The Villages is growing much faster than Orlando and Orlando is feeling the impact.

I am thinking that the very bright Morse family is smart enough to stay well within the law on these issues. My money, and all of my dreams for the rest of the life that I have rest on that belief.

Everybody has to have a job Lauren. I am glad that mine isn't to stir up trouble in Paradise.

Well said GG. Exactly my thoughts when reading the latest by Ms. Ritchie

Throughout the above diatribe attacking and belittling all things Villages, Mr. GeorgeN constantly refers to Villagers as "you", implying that we poor dummies have been taken while only he knows the truth. I'm very happy for you, Mr. N, that you have discovered your truth about TV and obviously find it wanting. Ergo, I don't expect that you will be moving here. This will be to the benefit of both you and Villages residents. I wish you good fortune in finding your retirement Utopia.



`

Throughout the above diatribe attacking and belittling all things Villages, Mr. GeorgeN constantly refers to Villagers as "you", implying that we poor dummies have been taken while only he knows the truth. I'm very happy for you, Mr. N, that you have discovered your truth about TV and obviously find it wanting. Ergo, I don't expect that you will be moving here. This will be to the benefit of both you and Villages residents. I wish you good fortune in finding your retirement Utopia.
I agree.
If he has decided TV is not for him, why is he hanging around? Could it be deep down he wants to be here?
But who needs him?

GeorgeN - TV is no different than any other town in any other state. My town in Mass. is 3 times more expensive than similar towns in other parts of my little state. And there are towns that are 3 times mine. But I feel that the expense was worth it based on everything it had to offer.

TV is the same. We've had this discussion before but the vast majority of people in TV know exactly what they bought into prior to their purchase. But you are entitled to your opinion on this PUBLIC forum.

Don't shoot the messenger
 

Folks, the issue here is not where Ms. Ritchie lives or whether Ms. Ritchie likes The Villages or even whether The Villages is a great place to live. Ms. Ritchie is the messenger bringing Villagers a message about a potentially serious issue facing our future. It is an issue that has not been properly reported by the Developer's newspaper.

The two questions that posters should be asking are:

1. What happens if the IRS prevails here?

2. What can Villagers do to protect their investment and lifestyle against the consequences of such an outcome?

By the way, I love living here. I think the lifestyle is fantastic-- AND I would like it to stay that way. Read the book Lesiureville to learn about the deterioration of other senior communities and to get some insight into what goes on behind the scenes here (just ignore some of the book's minor inaccuracies, sensationalism, and depiction of The Villages as a site of senior sexual depravity).

Ask yourselves: What basis do I have for thinking that it is certain that our lifestyle, which caused us to pay a premium price for our homes, is preordained to continue forever?

Thank you for your post. Very well worded and info that can be backed up with facts.

First this site has had many posts that do try to ask and/or answer your two questions. The POA has this topic on their agenda to follow as it progresses. It is not being ignored.

As far as the lifestyle being preordained to continue - Of course nothing is in stone but the District setup (with oversight) seems to be working.

Overall I feel comfortable buying into TV for the foreseeable future.

:agree::beer3:

I agree


besdies I am reaching for the Flag on the I can not post unless it is approved GIMMIC!! That is a Personal Foul, I need to flag someone soon.. I even mad a comment on here that should of been banned and it went on soon as I hit the button. I heard about it later, but it was on there for everyone to see.

Money Out

G - Now I know what to buy you for your birthday - Virtual yellow flags!

Admin - we need some flag smiles!

That would be thing. Wish I had them on here and could throw them at will.
:beer3:

The whole book should be ignored....all was written to sell books.
Why should the "behind the scenes" be any more sensational than the sex at Katie Bells?

All of the "outcry" and "commentary" has tried to insinuate the developer is shady, doing dastardly deeds, and out to snooker the elderly through legal loopholing. Balderdash!

From my readings, throughout this entire bond experience, the developer had acquired exceptional legal counsel from what is arguably one of the most (if not THE most) prestigious law firms in Florida (Akerman Senterffitt), highly experienced in CDDs. What goes on with the running of these CDDs is occurring statewide, so the battle is concerned with selected folk within the fed, many years downstream, looking at Florida state law from a different view than previously done, and seeing a possiblity of fed revenue acquisition through "redefinition." So, other CDDs, not just TV, have interest in this TV-fed matter, as Florida state law is what's on the challenge table.

So, as the discussions, negotiations, and other legal wranglings go on between TV and the fed, life still goes on for the rest of us. If the fed position is a reversal from earlier, then the potential for litigation, through Tax Court, There may even be a constitutional issue, impacting again which court(s) may be involved.

If there will be any impact to any TV resident, present or future, is total and utter speculation. And it's easy to get us "older folk" spooked by any accusation, implied or direct, that our security is being jeopardized and that our financial plans (pretty well fixed by this point) may be in some danger.

Ms. Ritchie is exercising her First Amendment right to state her opinions as she sees fit, and the Orlando Sentinel likewise is exercising its First Amendment right to publish her opinion (and make money at it as well). My First Amendment right to discount the insinuations is my choice, as I hate dealing in a whole lot of guessing games where sharp legal minds will be working on this in good faith for probably a very long time. And since no one can provide any scenario in which doom and gloom is prevalent, I'm back to LSL for a $1.75 Margarita at 5PM.

It's a beautiful day in The Villages.

As always the voice of reason. Well done!

Steve!

Your mama didn't have any dumb kids!!!

After this well put statement espcially the 1.75 part nothing else be said. If so, Russ B I hope you got my Flags ready!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now were talking.. :bowdown:

I am glad I am hearing about all this "shenanigans" by the developer. I have been lured by the promise of "Utopia" too....BUT this IRS business has prompted me to delve a little deeper into the inner workings of TV.
I have worked for many developers and I know most of them to be very cost conscious. By developing so many homes, they have the costs pared down to the bare minimum. They have the materials, time and other factors involved down to a tee. This maximizes the profit they can attain. In business there are three things you can give your customers. Quality, quantity, and low cost ......BUT you cannot give all three at the same time. I have been hesitant to buy in TV due to several factors.

This is in regard to the lack of taxes paid by the developer on the earnings from amenities which is not yet resolved.

First off, the prices of homes being bought by everyone have been premium prices for Florida. The Villages is in the middle of a cow pasture.....not even near the coast where the prices are similar.

I do not agree with his comparison of our community and a cow pasture!!!

Second, The developer sold you your home based on "free Golf" and other amenities......The fees for these amenities were NOT included in the price of your home.....see amenities fees

Technically, if you can walk the course, you play golf on executive courses for free.

Third, The developer then charged you a "bond" fee not charged anywhere else in Florida. Most places in Florida you buy a home and the "fees" are included.....even with all these extra fees included, the price of a home in Florida is still inexpensive.

As you know, anytime you buy in a specified community such as condo, etc. you pay for the use of the recreation programs. I don't think $135 a month is that much to ask for all that we have.

Fourth, Let's look at comparable homes throughout Florida, You just do NOT get the same bang for your buck in TV as you would elsewhere. The value of The Villages is their amenities for which you pay a premium. My home is double the size of most in TV and is half the price.....with the savings, I can get a golf membership at an non-crowded course and play anywhere I would like.

If you are looking ONLY at the actual home, he is correct. However, when you buy in the Villages, you purchase lifestyle, not just a home.

Fifth, I had been concerned about build out. When a developer is still building in the development, he is concerned about keeping everything in excellent condition and "fees" very low to attract buyers. When build out occurs, the developer leaves and "fees" skyrocket. THIS IS THE NORM....not some dream I had, I have seen this repeatedly. Oh you own the amenities you say ! ....not quite
Someone (developer or cronies) owns not only the amenities, but the right to charge you more...... and they will exercise that right when able to.

As I understand it, the bond is for future infrastructure and we (The Community Development Districts) will ultimately "own" all the community buildings, etc. in the Villages.

The developer has found a way to sell homes on an old cow pasture for premium prices, get others to finance his amenities, which you all paid for but do not own, and build a "company store" in which you all live .

I believe that Mr. Schwartz (original developer) was a forward thinking person and good for him that he was able to buy land cheaply and turn it into a wonderful community for us to live in and enjoy. Making money was his original reason and that is the American Way so don't knock it. If you don't like it here, get involved in change or move.

It is the "company store" that none of you bought......just owe your sole to.

Couldn't disagree more!!!:eclipsee_gold_cup:

We love TV and I know it has been said over and over again but we did buy in TV for the Lifestyle! Our TV home is the fourth we have owned in Florida so we have personal knowledge of the Florida housing market. I also sold real estate in Florida and yes we could have bought a bigger house somewhere else but always remember the mantra,

Location! Location! Location!

I don't have any Sole can I pay in Catfish?
:1rotfl:

All of us in TV have bought into the planned communities with all the amenities and activities we all enjoy. That being said, I am willing to bet not too many of us knew or gave much thought to the possible negatives such as the bond issue or what happens to price control when build out arrives. It would be only natural to expect our costs to go skyward upon being released from the developer's envolvement. How much depends on what each of us can stand, figured out most likely on the purchase price of our homes and the tied in issue of the bond. It would not surprise me to see our monthly costs to jump 20-25%. The bond issue will be settled in a court of law, where it should be. In my opinion, the bond contains items that should have been included in the price of the home, not used to allow the developer a distinct monetary advantage. Time will tell.

Wow, this is serious!

Yoda

The sky isn't falling. The sky isn't falling and how many of us will live for another 30-40 years?. We don't know. We can continue to renew our magazine subscriptions but lets not worry ourselves into an early grave!!

:agree: :agree: :agree:

I know its FIVE O CLOCK somewhere!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Im just reading old threads and cant help but wonder when I read that some hundred or so homes are sold in the Villages every month, can all these people be ignorant or apathetic or not care about there future. It just doesnt make sense. I dont own in the Villages but I do visit often and find it real enjoyable and beautiful. The funniest one after the whining newspaper columnist who says shes informing and at the same time says as a columnist and not a reporter she doesnt have to write truth is the person who says he got twice the house for half the price somewhere else and can spend the difference on a private golf course but is still writing about the Villages. What does that say? Some people just need to get a life and live it and leave tax and legal matters to the tax specialists and lawyers to do there jobs. And to those people who cant live without something to be hysterical about, well, good luck.

The Villages in the state of Florida has generated a lot of revenue for the state, provided more jobs than any other place in FL, attracted many small and large business entities, provided a lifestyle for many that is second to none, have schools that are the envy of other cities, has generated more tax money for local, state, national than most communities. And during these hard times, it continues to grow in size. So my question is, if the CDC system works so well here, why are we under the gun for the bond issue? Certainly, Mr. Morse's lawyers were advised about the legality of the use of bonds with the IRS when the Villages came into being. So why is this an issue now?

Irs
 

As you do your homework you will come to realize Mr. Morse did not issue the bonds whose legality is being questioned by the IRS. The issuer was the VCCDD a government body.
http://www.poa4us.org/bulletins_file...etin200909.pdf

For an insider’s view of The developer of The Villages...I can help.

First, let me say that I LOVE the COMMUNITY and the residents of The Villages and what has been created. The beauty, the safety, the fun and the atmosphere is second to none.

I worked with and for the developer for a long time (over a decade.) I don't want to give too much info on who I am because I know them and what can happen to people who speak openly against them. Honestly, I loved working with them and am so thankful for the opportunity, the education and the experience I received but I continued to see a trend away from open, honest and fair dealing in business a few years ago.
I have seen the very ugly side.

Listen to Lauren Ritchie...she is not that far off. I understand her job is to help "sell newspapers" however if she prints complete lies then she loses any credibility and no one will listen or read her opinions.

We have all seen the movies where big corporations do things behind the scenes to "make their own rules." Read the book by John Grisham called, "The Appeal.” That book is very close to what the developer does to use politicians to bend rules in their favor. It is very easy to get all emotional when you look around at the beauty of The Villages. My fear is what will happen when all the new homes are sold. Many of us who work and worked there see the writing on the wall of what will happen in next 4 to 5 years. When new homes are all sold (at the current pace of 200 per month- about 4 years +/-) it is my very educated opinion that A LOT will change. Right now you can look up and find that their own attorney said VNN is losing almost $1.5 million per year. That's just the beginning. The IRS thing is a tip of their behind the scene "making their own rules issues." I can say with certainty one thing...the developer and the family are making sure that they are protected (their rear end covered) over anything that a resident alone could do to them. (but the truth does eventually come out- I just hope it’s not too late when they’ve moved on to retiring themselves or building The Villages #2 on over 100,000 acres they own in Texas) When they are done making 30+% or more on the new homes (and a lot more on the land) they are selling it is my strong opinion (from working with them daily for a long time) that they will do a couple things. First, the sales department will close because they will NOT work just as hard to sell your pre owned home for half of a 6% commission!! Think about it! I am confident they are making 30+% on new homes plus big land profits. I don't believe they will stick around for 1/10th of that (half of a 6% commission = 3%). Secondly, I believe they will continue to collect huge lease payments on what will be close to 2 million sq ft of commercial space and land lease payments which could easily net them $50 million annually. Look at their commercial web site for demographics.

I am NOT saying I don't love the city of The Villages because I do. I just know the family and what Harold Schwartz built was a town where he walked around and shook people’s hands and business was all done in the open ( the way it used to be and should be again).It is now in the hands of the third generation and the mentality is completely big business corporate not family (Because as we all know kids always know better than the parents and grandparents) (actually you don't have to reinvent the wheel on how to treat people with respect when no one is watching and do the right thing) If you've been in their airplane hanger, the home in the Bahamas, their Aspen house, the home in Boca, the 150+ ft yacht or in Gary M.'s home you would see the many photos of the very powerful people (law makers and politicians) who they are rubbing shoulders with and flying around with that help them make sure the rules are bent their way. Truly, I would be very careful. I’ve read many of their contracts and they are ALL one sided. It is their way or no way.

Another truth...the sales people that work for the developer make 2-2.5% for selling a new home plus they get anywhere from $200 to $2,000 or more per NEW home based on a bonus cycle every month. When the same salesperson sells a pre-owned home they get paid 1.25% and if there happens to be a bonus it is a very small bonus called 50 marketing points (or so) that can be used to advertise in their daily sun newspaper. Ask yourself this, “If you have one customer you are selling a $300,000 home to, do you push a new home at 2-2.5% plus big bonus or do you push a pre owned home that will make you at least half the commission?” They say that they want to sell pre owned homes and in some way they do but as soon as they are done selling new homes I believe they will close the doors.

Here is the truth (as I believe it)...the sooner they can sell out all the new homes the sooner they can stop all the overhead (the buildings, the trolleys, the support staff, the massive advertising and LPP's go away) The smartest thing I believe they have ever done was the resident survey because ALL the good ideas they have ever had came from asking people “what do you want?” In essence the residents built into the community what you now see. I give credit to the developer for asking the question but let me say this “ Do not believe they are here to help you, they are here to make as much money as they can.” Selling the Savannah Center based on an appraisal of so many thousand amenities fees is legal (i guess) but is it unethical or greedy, I would say YES. I support businesses that are making a profit. All I ask is that they play by the same rules everyone else has to play by. Again, I won't go into more about who I am because honestly, I know them and their tactics they use towards anyone who says a word against them and that does make me very nervous.

Wow! Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and opinions.

Is this being shared out the goodness of your heart.....or it there another motive?

Can you give us more details on the new developement in Texas?