Petition
 

Hello to all,
I will be proposing a change to The Villages guest pass policy to allow single residents the same rights that a married couple have. The petition (See Below) will be presented to the board hopefully at the July 8 meeting to be held at the Savannah Center at 1:30PM. This will have to be introduced during the audience participation portion of that meeting. If any of you or your friends can also attend that meeting as a show of support, that will have a bearing on how it is received and voted at that meeting by the board. The last time this was on the agenda, there were only one or two people in the audience so the board did not think it was important enough to vote favorably on it.

Please help us out and get as many signatures as you can before July 5th and get them to me somehow on or before then. You can email me to arrange a pickup or delivery. I presented this proposal to the Villages Singles Club Monday night and it was well received. We hope to get many signatures from the singles clubs. You can get married couples to sign also if they are sympathetic to the cause.

If you know a retired lawyer who can provide some guidance on how to write a proper amendment to the bylaws, see if they would be willing to provide advise.

Thanks, and good luck.

Bob


To: Ms. Janet Tutt, Director VCCDD

Single residents in The Villages pay the same amenity fee every month that married couples pay, yet they are not allowed to bring a friend into The Villages to enjoy dances, swim in the pool, and play other games, golf, etc. unless they live outside the tri-county area. Specifically, we ask that single resident households be allowed the same opportunity to enjoy all the things that The Villages lifestyle has to offer married couples. We believe this is the only fair thing to do since single residents pay the same amenity fee as a married couple.

Proposed for consideration:

We the undersigned, call upon you to pass an amendment to the bylaws to allow a single resident household the same privileges that married couples have. Each single resident household shall have a special guest pass that is linked to the resident’s Identification such that the guest shall be in the company or presence of the resident at all times in order to use it. The guest pass shall be electronically linked to the resident’s bar code. This would ensure that the guest pass could not be given to someone outside The Villages for use by anyone unaccompanied by the resident. Our sense is that this is what the representatives are concerned about and we believe this addresses that concern.
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singles
 

I agree ..and will support you in your effort to gain the same rights for single residents as those afforded couples.....

Romegirl

thanks bob
 

for taking up our cause and putting all the time and effort into this...i hope many people support you at the meeting....

In theory I support you since the monthly payment is the same.

Question: I thought that up to 4 people (assuming they are on the deed) can get resident passes with the one amenity fee?

If so then shouldn't every amenity fee get up to 4 to do with as they wish?

I'm not supporting that argument but it would be the 'devil's advocate' position.

Russ...
Wile your thought about the four people is correct, they would all have to prove residency at that home before they can get their ID from that home. There are as you know specific requirements to prove residency.


All....
If you thnk that single resident households should be allowed different rules in regards to amenities, then do you think that those residents that can not enjoy the amenities any longer should get a discount?

For instance a couple moved here together 20 years ago and neither can golf, swim, golf cart around any longer. They are aging a bit and in fact don't get out of the house much at all, so they don't really even enjoy the flowers etc....

They don't use the amenities....they can prove it with all of their doctors notes and homecare aides but they still have to pay their fee. Shouldn't we discount them?

I guess I am playing a little devils advocate as well....but once you start making changes and exceptions....well don't you have to do that for everyones special need or circumstance?

I am not trying to start an argument....just throwing a different perspective out there....

I am sure there are other exceptions to the rules that could be made as well!

Let me change my answer in light of those facts.

It should remain that all owners on the deed (up to 4) get a resident pass for their one monthly amenity fee. Simple, efficient. Some homes get 1 some get 4.

Otherwise those with 2 would start complaining about those that have 4 etc. etc.

Petition
 

Just a suggestion: It would be a good idea to put in a provision for Widows and Widowers. Quite often when a Spouse Dies monthly income can drop substantiously, and since there will only be one surviving spouse in the household that should then become a single household. It is only my opinion so there are many components to this proposal. Good luck to all of you

I am not sure how a single household would affect any of the costs. The amenity fees are not affected by number of people in the household.

The way I understand this post is that a single Villager wants the ability to bring a date (note I do not say friend) into the Villages and allow them to have the run of all the amenities that the Villagers have. While I understand what they want and I actually feel that they should have the ability to bring a date (note I do not say friend) into the Villages for dances and the pool and golf I don't think all amenities should be open to them. I still want to reserve the use of executive golf courses but since the SSDDCC (or whatever) punked out on the 30 day a year rule for in-county relatives, I guess that is fair game also but negotiable

Just my feelings. I know if I was single and meet someone in Lake, Marion, or Sumter that I took a liking to I would like to be able to invite them to the local dances, etc.

Z-I don't think it was the CDD that punked out on anything....this was a homeowner issue at hand I believe....it was the homeowner elected reps on the board that voted it down.

The abuse of the guest pass situation is coming from the fact that if 4 residents per household can prove residency they can get IDs. There are 11 forms of ID that are availabe and only 3 of the 11 are required to get an ID. The new policy about not allowing guests that live in the tri-county area is not affected by the above. That is where the abuse is still coming from. Not giving a single person household an extra pass for a girl friend or boy friend.

There are less than 4500 single resident households in TV. Historically only 1.5% use guest passes. That would amount to 45 extra people using the facilities that the single person household is already paying for anyway. They pay the same fee as a couple.

Some people have dance partners living outside TV and can no longer bring them to the dances sponsored by the rec department. That is not right.

I was talking to a widow who lost her husband 5 years ago. The same day he passed away she got a call from someone requesting that the husband's ID be turned in to the office. That is what is going on here. Singles are being discriminated against in TV. This is a couples oriented place. If you are single you are just out of luck. Sorry that is just not right.

Bigfox, I beg to differ with your final sentence, because
 

x

Bigfox, I beg to differ with your final sentence, because
 

Bigfox, I beg to differ with your final sentence, because I have never read a thread posted by a single, that complained about their life in the villages.:beer3:

Diskman: There have been previous threads from single residents which have brought to light this fundamentally discriminatory practice. Just because those folks are in the minority and have not raised the roof doesn't mean that they don't have a complaint, and a valid one to boot.

Bigfox: You've said it very well.

Bob: Good luck with the quest. Don't give up! As a happily married couple for lots of years, we are not in your situation, but we fully support it

It's irrelevant that TV policy allows up to 4 resident passes if there are as many as 4 co-owners. It is a clearly unfair practice to deny singles a second pass, which they should be able to use for a person of their choice, as long as they register the identity information with TV. The pass should be transferable to another person in the same way that a married person could arrange to do if they divorced and remarried. No questions asked!

I think that makes a lot of sense - although for "fast moving" singles it may be a burden to register them.
But I think the idea of allowing singles a guest pass for whomever is a really good idea. One per single household!

:agree:

Petition
 

Well, I wish it would go one further in that I think it is discriminatory that a single person has to pay 88% of the total fee that is required for a couple for a priority membership. A couple pays approximately $981.(approximately) and a single person pays $791. Several years ago I wrote a letter and questioned this practice and was told "well, someone has to make up the difference so it is the singles that have to do it". Just blew me away. I wouldn't bother with the priority membership except that I play a lot of golf - but still don't feel that single people are getting a fair shake.

IN the company of the homeowner.
 

Here is what the petition proposed from the orignial post:

Proposed for consideration:

We the undersigned, call upon you to pass an amendment to the bylaws to allow a single resident household the same privileges that married couples have. Each single resident household shall have a special guest pass that is linked to the resident’s Identification such that the guest shall be in the company or presence of the resident at all times in order to use it. The guest pass shall be electronically linked to the resident’s bar code. This would ensure that the guest pass could not be given to someone outside The Villages for use by anyone unaccompanied by the resident.[/Our sense is that this is what the representatives are concerned about and we believe this addresses that concern.

IN the company of the resident and electronicly linked to that singles badge. So no extra privliges for tee times as it would link to the single, no people wondering around using the facilities by themselves and the persons whos ID they check is the resident as they must be accompanied by them. I don't see why anyone should have a problem with this different color badge with the info on who they must be with clearly on it, whats the problem?:shrug:
It not only seems fair, I'm not a lawyer but I suspect it could be litigated if the petition isn't adopted.

Here's another thought provoker though a little off subject........but why should couples who never had children and married for many years have to pay school taxes????:confused::confused:

Life is an endless series of burdens.

Another obvious injustice. Guess I never noticed this disparity in the priority golf details. A small "administrative fee" making the single priority membership a little more than 50% of the cost of a couple is reasonable. 88% is outrageous! I suspect the small number of singles overall has resulted in the rest of us not being very informed about these inequities.
It's time for us couples to help keep these inequities in the public eye and help get them changed. It's a last resort and entirely distasteful, but I believe a legal challenge would quickly change these policies.

So if my family are visiting from NY and want to go to the pool or play golf or whatever and I am employed, I need to take time off???CRAZY!!!:cus:

This thread is discussing singles petition to allow singles to be able to have a second ID they would hold on to and use for their dates so they can have a date join them as visitors are limited to 30 days and there are prohibitions apparently on out of villages locals having visitors passes also. It is not refering to regurlar visitors passes for visiting families and friends.

passes
 

As a single person planning on moving to tv. I agree we should be allowed to bring a friend or a date to our home
to enjoy with us the pool or a singles dance.After all isn't this what tv is all about enjoying the rest of our life. We are not looking to abuse the rules and regulations just being part of the fun that couples are allowed. :girlneener:
Good luck to all:

With YOU
 

Is it too late to add a name to this request

This issue has still not been answered or resolved. (Well I guess by ignoring us singles, the answer is "No")

I added this request to my Villages Survey, as did several of my single friends. I wonder if anyone who is in charge and able to resolve this issue will read or respond to our suggestions....

I don't have anyone to invite to a dance or event, but I'd like to have the option to do so if I ever have the opportunity, and I believe this inequity should be fixed. We singles pay the same amenity fee as couples, yet we cannot invite a guest to a dance if the guest lives within a 50 mile radius of TV. Unfair!

P.S. I apologize for sounding negative... I love TV! This is the best place to live, and I've met many wonderful friends here. I'd just like the unfair treatment of singles to be fixed.

Personally, I'd like to see the basic rules changed for not just singles, but all Villagers. If you have a friend who lives within the Tri-County area, you should be able to invite them to enjoy an occasional activity with you. My passion is bridge. I have a friend in Lady Lake I'd love to play with here. She can't because she lives in Lake County. This has nothing to do with my being single, this has to do with her location.

So, if you're going to change the rules to allow singles to bring a local into TV to enjoy the amenities, why can't a couple invite their friends to a pool party or the like (limited, of course, to the number deemed acceptable -- 4?).

I've never understood the total desire to exclude locals who happen to be friends of TVers. I LOVE the idea of special guest pass that would enable any TV resident to invite a friend or two to partake of certain activities with their friends regardless of the residency of the friend.

I am not saying I am against a single getting a pass. As far as being able to bring more people in to use our facities that we residents pay for...I am not in favor of.
Has anyone else that lives here tried to get a t-time on an executive course lately?
I tried to get a time for our group of full time (3)residents for Wed or Thursday and gave up.
I for one will be happy to see a lot of the visitors/guests go back home.
It is good to see them come here and better to see them leave.

p.s. The Rio Grand family pool has had to turn people away because they have been over capacity.

I had been to meetings where residents asked for this change. One person had relatives living in the area and wanted them to be able to use the facilities. Somewhere a line must be drawn. In this case not everyone will be happy.

I think it a club is having a social event - dance, picnic, etc), then a single should be able to invite a guest from the outside. As far as getting a guest into one of the daily/weekly activities (cards, sewing, etc) I say no.

As I understand it, most or all medical forums are open to outsiders. That I have no problem with. These are informative and helpful to all.

As far as letting them on the executive courses, I say h*ll no. But they can play on the championship courses and pay the fee.

muddy the waters
 

the problem with many of these arguments is that they muddy the waters. many singles have significant others who are not full time residents and when they spend winters here they do not receive the same amenities as a married couple. each home should be sold with two resident cards for married couples and one resident card plus one special guest card for a single buyer so there is no discrimination since all pay the same amenity fees. this would solve the problem of tri-county dates as well. if my partner cannot attend functions with me then it deprives me of enjoying my own amenities. i do not think marrieds nor singles should invite anyone beyond their couple to use our amenities as they are not paying for them. this issue should be addressed in our survey or it will never be resolved.

Querida amiga. Comparto contigo tu propuesto y quisiera firmar, dime que tengo que hacer > Hasta pronto , Sandra

possible action
 

the petition is on file with 175 signatures and bigfox was advised at the meeting last year that they had just completed a six month study on the issue and had decided against it. however, the issue can be brought up again
after one year, which will be july. perhaps if we all contacted our local board members from VCCDD or miss janet tutt, the director, we could revive the discussion. the survey ended on march 31 and i addressed this inequity on my survey but don't know how many others did. nothing will change unless we make a concerted effort.

As I said in the begining of the post the petition is asking for a special guest pass that is linked to the owners pass I don't see this as a problem.

Also I would think that if the rules have changed since people bought and accepted the restrictions, it would constitute a discrimitory practice that amends the rights of use and value of property without the permission of the minority group (singles).

I am not a lawyer but IMHO this should be acctionable. Am I wrong?
It is hard enough on a person when their spouse passes so now the rules make them feel like an outsider and exclude them from the fun.:mad:

Another question, everyone keeps saying resident,I don't think that is the correct term, allot of those in the villages are not residents. They are snowbirds. It is my understanding that many have purchased long before retirement and only come down occasionally they are not FLA residents.

Sorry if I seem miffed but any group having their rights to enjoyment and same value use of facilities being denied because they are a little different makes me burn. " The pursuit of happiness" its in the constitution remember.

TrudyM, please don't misinterpret this, but the phrase, "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" isn't in the US Constitution. It is a phrase found in The Declaration of Independence. Which is a document written by the representatives of the 13 colonies declaring their independence from the British Empire.


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.....

Are you suggesting that the guest gets free golf? Would they also be covered under my trail fees? If so can I trade my wife's resident ID for one of these special guest deals? Sure would be nice to be able to play free golf with my buddies outside of TV. The greens fees are a killer on the executive courses. We find it is cheaper to play championship or outside TV. I would support this cause under these conditions.

Sorry misquoted.
 

It has been a long time since civics.

Here is the original petition from the begining of this thread:
To: Ms. Janet Tutt, Director VCCDD

Single residents in The Villages pay the same amenity fee every month that married couples pay, yet they are not allowed to bring a friend into The Villages to enjoy dances, swim in the pool, and play other games, golf, etc. unless they live outside the tri-county area. Specifically, we ask that single resident households be allowed the same opportunity to enjoy all the things that The Villages lifestyle has to offer married couples. We believe this is the only fair thing to do since single residents pay the same amenity fee as a married couple.

Proposed for consideration:

We the undersigned, call upon you to pass an amendment to the bylaws to allow a single resident household the same privileges that married couples have. Each single resident household shall have a special guest pass that is linked to the resident’s Identification such that the guest shall be in the company or presence of the resident at all times in order to use it. The guest pass shall be electronically linked to the resident’s bar code. This would ensure that the guest pass could not be given to someone outside The Villages for use by anyone unaccompanied by the resident. Our sense is that this is what the representatives are concerned about and we believe this addresses that concern.

As I understand it this is to address the inequity that, the limits on local people visiting the villages causes for singles in their social life. But it would seem to me that if a person who owns two properties can transfer the rights to golf for his rental to two people renting his second place then a single should be able to have permanent guest pass linked to their own with the requirement that they accompany the guest.


I haven't bought yet so it really is none of my business. I was just commenting that it didn't seem equitable. I would also bet that if most of those affected were men instead of women the petition would have been adopted.

I’ve always felt that amenity fees should be charged “per person” instead of “per household”. That would at least address the unequal monetary issue.

I have posted to this answer twice and I have deleted both responses because I don't want to upset you like you have upset me. I also don't want to sound harsh or get reprimanded by the TOTV police.

I just want you to know that I do not agree with you.

IMHO Don’t think per person is a solution.
 

Unless I am mistaken: The rights to use of the amenities are deeded to the property. Because the fees are paying for not just the operating cost of the amenities but also the purchase and maintenance of the facilities and these costs are shared by the properties not the people. So the revenue stream needs to be stable. A person isn’t paying for using the amenities but for the right to use them that is attached to the deed. It is that conveyed right that I think is being abridged by not allowing singles a special guest pass for their date. A pass that requires the owners to accompany the guest to avoid misuse by those adjacent to but not living in the villages.

Fees
 

You knew the rules and charges when you bought. STOP Whining!!!!
Your continued complaints along the lines of this thread will only give the powers that be an idea to raise the fees for couples. The fees go with the home and not the # of occupants.

Your discretion in this matter is appreciated.