15 Reasons to Oppose Climate Bill
 

A very good read:

http://www.clubforgrowth.org/2009/06..._climate_b.php

On the money! Thanks!

Whoa!!! I thought one of Obama's main campaign promises was "no increase in taxes for the middle class"... On this list of " 15 Reasons..." that's the topper... numero uno on the list. I wonder how those that voted for him feel about that lie?

I frequent OPENCONGRESS.ORG at times (although at MANY times I get confused) but it seems to me that this administration and congress are beginning a trend....ie., pushing things through so nobody can read what they are doing (REMEMBER THE STIMULUS BILL ? ).

This is from OPENCONGRESS.ORG.....

"I wrote last week that OpenCongress can be an incredible resource for citizens, reporters and activists looking for information on Congress, but cautioned that this is only true when Congress makes that information available. With the case of the American Clean Energy And Security Act, this simply wasn’t possible. Members of the House were given precious little time to determine the policy outcomes of this legislation, due to its size, the different versions released, and the time frame provided for action (Speaker Nancy Pelosi had sought a vote before next week’s 4th of July recess). Members of the public were given even less time."

http://www.opencongress.org/articles...-Trade-Edition

I was told this was going to be a tranparent and open administration, but does this not begin to look like a trend ?

I have listened to much of the debate today on CSPAN and am overwhelmed with some of what I hear....example....by 2050 have carbon emissions at the same level they were in 1910 ! Our bankrupt and government owned auto industry can do this ?

Some of this could be used as a basis for forward movement but it is like everything else we have seen thus far.....A LOT OF WORDS and that is it.
We have no idea how to do what we are demanding be done !!!!!!!!

Your welcome, Steve.

rshoffer....There must be alot of folks shaking their collective heads.

Remember when Obama said his administration would post a bill, on the internet, five days before voting on it??? This bill had 300 pages added this morning at 3AM. We haven't seen the origianal bill, much less this addition. Thank goodness for the Heritage Foundation or we wouldn't know anything about the bill.

Are you saying that a campaign promise is really no promise at all? How can that be true, since President Obama would never act different in any way than Candidate Obama said he would act if elected? Never! Nada! I feel so betrayed! Where's my $1.75 Margarita?

You give them too much credit. I have one reason. It's BULLCHPS!


Yoda

A member of the loyal opposition

Is there anyone who reads this board who supports this bill ?

If so, please comment on why !!!

Thanks

:a20: Yoda...I would call you an angry white man but it wouldn't describe your picture!!!:beer3:

Call me naive, but I still say it is just a scheme to raise taxes and satisfy the Gore kool-aid crowd. A two-fer. Between social security, wars and a bloated government payroll (just to name three) they figure they have to raise taxes. Problem is that business is petrified and that means less people on the payrolls which lead to decrease in the government coffers. I really don't see how this will help...but I sure would like to listen to the other side. I really would like to hear some good news, for a change.:shrug:

I just want to have someone who supports this to speak to it !!! Thats all !

meet me some nite at one of the shacks on the squares... I'll buy

How can the question be addressed? If you support this bill
 

please comment. The lawmakers have just passed a piece of history changing legislation....AGAIN.....WITHOUT READING IT!!!!!!!!!
Doesn't that strike anybody else as irresponsible? Has partisan politics gone so far that it has come to bying a pig in a poke, no questions asked?

It just seems like it should be an invalid vote if they did not read it.

In the late 30's and early 40's there was an individual who was noted as a charismatic speaker. Who had millions messmerized to blind following to a fault.
Who lead his country and every other one he touched to ruin. Who promised the people everything and delivered only to his parties personal gains.

Without mentioning his name, all one has to do is go through his progression from a nobody to one of histories most ruthless tyrants.
I am not saying BHO is like him....I AM saying his characteristics are too similar to not mention it it an open discussion. I AM also saying the methodology being employed is also similar. And another similarity....his promise that the actions being taken would result in delivering the people out of a ruthless depression....providing more jobs....and prosperity for all.

Back to the thread....how can passing such legislation without reading it be justified...BY ANYBODY? T o me.....it can not be.
So let's hear from the supporters.

btk

Just like Dick Morris said today on the radio. Obama knows they will loose Congress in 2010 and the White House in 2012 so they are cramming in as much damage to the economy as they can. Obama is fixing nothing and never planned to.

All the blabber about middle class tax cuts, 95% won't see their taxes go up one dime, blah blah blah was nothing more than fat lies that unfortunately too many people bought into.

They are systematically destroying America or at the very least making their best attempt at it before they get run out of town.

Hopefully it won't be too late to undo this economic disaster of an administration.

Our country has been hijacked.

dklassen, you are 100% correct, unfortunately. I don't know why "the powers that be" want to bring down the country. They live here too. I believe Obama is just a front man.

hmmm....
 

Just wondering ... Do you guys ever just feel like you're chasing your own tails? I'm just asking...;)

I'm just wondering...do drive by posters really have something to say? Just curious.

No! Hahaha!
 

No, not really. Just a running commentary! :laugh: And the 5 or 6 of you seem to have a great time just talking to each other!

If ya throw enough chum in the water eventually ya getta bite!!!
 

And a response to the question of...if anybody supports the cap and tax legislation.....as has been established time and time again on this forum (and my experience elsewhere) with definitive, specific discussion, pro or con there remains the usual silence or side step of the issue.

Being a believer of either lead, follow, get out of the way (and recently added....let's wait and see).....it is always a very small group out front:jester:

btk

Chels, discussion boards are for discussions no matter the number involved. Twitter is for leaving tweets. Check it out, you might like it.

I don't come here often, but....
 

I am a moderate.

I think dealing with healthcare in a way that would give hardworking Americans affordable access to good plans would go a long way toward helping the economy, not just for individuals but for small business.

But..................

I firmly believe that this Climate Bill thing could very well be the last nail in the economy's coffin. It's a cash cow and I will just bet that the lobbyists in it could make those vile lending industry lobbyists look like a Girl Scout troop.

But......

I don't come here often. I am a moderate.

Boomer

Why Thank You Sweetie!
 

OMG! I've been on this board for over a year and didn't realize a person couldn't just make a comment! Wow!!! Well, I learn something new everyday!

My point is that 5 or 6 of the same people just go round and round backing each other up. Where's the discussion??? Just an observation! IMHO. :)

So, after one or two sentences I've been called (by the "do not call names" group), "a drive-by poster" told to "get out of the way" and now "check out Twitter." OK guys... the floor is all yours! Good luck with that.

BTW, I love Twitter! :girlneener:

Hey, feel free to jump in and tell us what you love about OB or what's going on in the government these days you agree with. Don't you think a discussion is more worth while than a once sentence hit and run?

All comments are welcome here but it would be nice if they were participatory rather than a snippet just to get a rise out of people.

That is funny on so many levels.

I am always up for a joke. Could you give us a chuckle on one of those levels? I think DK is right on. This is a political discussion forum. An exchange of ideas. Someone has said that 5 or 6 people are saying the same thing? Bucco has pleaded several times for someone with any opinion contrary to his to please post. I think another opinion on this or any other topic would be refreshing. I am assuming that there are lurkers that maybe don't feel like joining in????? ( excuse my grammar)

Selective editing is certainly one option and of course the writers
 

choice....as long as they don't try to make it come across as their view of a given post with the selective editing is what was intended by the other writers.

And what is still consistently absent is just what was pointed out....a complete and total absence of a discussion about the subject of the thread. Forget the individuals....what would be refreshing would be a response to the subject...if one is in favor of the cap tax let's hear the reasons for it. It is not intended to be an offense/defense positioning at all.

Speaking for myself, just because the robot politicians are inclined to pass legislation without reading it does not make it right/acceptable. Quite the contrary. And if the partisan position is, as long as their party generated it is absolute...then so be it.

Just like I have an opinion about why the process is wrong (not reading it before voting)...and do not agree with much of the content and end results...and do not find it acceptable to launch such a major far reaching piece of legislation without knowing the effects, when, how much, how long, how to track and measure...
I would like to hear from those that favor it. Not just another caustic commentary about those who may have an opposing view.

I have a real personal problem just accepting ANYTHING just because of party affiliation....or race...or gender...or religion....but that is me.

My feelings and commentary are not a result of just the few who visit this forum with the blind attitude...but those I see face to face every day...as well as family members. The ones I find to be the most vocal are those who do not accept there is another position...those who are unable to articulate why the believe what they do...and especially those who denigrate anybody who dares to disagree with their party line. One can only conclude based on this type action of the choices given they simply choose to FOLLOW what ever the party does/says/doesn't do/etc.
And that ANYBODY who holds a differing view is of course of the wrong side of anything.

How limited! How sad.

How about a position on this recently passed legislation and why.....pretty simple request.....I thought.

btk

Interesting link on bill
 

A good question on the bill that will be sent to senate:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../06/023909.php

Where's the discussion??? About 4 posts upstream Billethkid asked the same question. BTK (and I) are still waiting for some discussion, debate, dialogue frow someone who sees any redeeming value to this Cap and Trade Bill. When it appears in this thread perhaps there will begin some discussion.

Theres no discussion because it is the same people who would oppose anything this president and congress did. Why bother.

Ok. Lets start with you explaining the rational of of the bill that was encouraged by the current president and passed by a congress that didn't have the time to read said bill. Explain the logic and virtues of this bill and how it will benefit the average american citizen.
We welcome your participation and promise to be gentle with our responses.:boxing2:
http://www.youtube.com/v/BqHL404zhcU..._embedded&fs=1

Hi Chels. I know. I got called "mushy middle" a couple of times. Gee. I know my middle does not look exactly like it did in my younger days, but I did not think that was a very nice thing to say. .....sniff....sniff.....sob

I don't show up around political much. The territory is the territory. And the most widely spoken language is the language of Frank Luntz. I am a moderate. But every once in a while I enter in. I get hung up with healthcare. So many need a solution to that mess. Something reasonable. Not an either/or. But without fail, I always end up wondering why I bothered to post. Oh well. I just have to try to middle through somehow.

Of course, I can avoid the political forum. That is my choice. But what makes me sad is that there are people in my life, people I actually know, who become quite angry over things political. And shout down anybody who might have a different opinion. And get really hateful looks on their faces.

And all this shouting is not just shouting down the complete opposite opinion but also shouting down the moderates. And the shouts are louder from the right. What are they thinking? When that happens they just drive more moderates away from the Republican party. The Republican party has got to quit saying to moderates, "We don't want your kind 'round here."

I am afraid that the true spirit of political discussion is being sucked out, more and more. What now passes for discussion, according to some, must take place in an echo chamber.

"What we got here is a failure to communicate."

Oh well.....I digress......nevermind.......carry on.

Boomer (and btw, I did give my opinion earlier on this climate bill thing. Bad news I am afraid. Toldya I am a moderate.)

Here we go...straight from the horse's mouth. Your electric bill is going to go up.

http://www.youtube.com/v/BqHL404zhcU..._embedded&fs=1

Isn't it kind of obvious there are those that are firmly planted
 

in the belief if you are not in agreement with them it just is not worth discussing...barf

It is starting to appear they are totally unfamiliar with anything that has to do with DISCUSSION. The process whereby ALL OPINIONS ARE INVITED....as some would have it ....thou shalt speak only if ye agree with THEM....if not it is not worthy of their participation.

Obviously we are too early in the game and the partisan crib notes have not been distributed.

Since when does everybody have to agree with anybody....if I were of a crude disposition I would refer to the position as lame!:jester:

C'mon....just one of you come back with an answer to the question with chiding the participants....

this isn't 1939 in Europe (yet).

btk

Ahhhh... perfectly wise thing to do at the bottom of a recession... Who is advising this man?

I recall you posting several times a day on subjects like Sarah Palin, the Palin family, John McCain's flying ability...SEVERAL TIMES A DAY with supporting links !!!!

Now, do you agree with the climate bill ?

How do you feel about the bail outs ?

How do you feel about congress not even reading these spending bills ?

How do you feel about the bail out of GM ?

How do you feel about the health care proposals ?

Seems that your inferrence about anyone posting here is pretty shallow unless you have an opinion or do you just agree with everything and all OR must the subject matter be stimulating like the Palin family or McCains flying record ?

"bottom of a recession"????? You are quite the optimist it seems.

Boomer

Be careful.... you're watchin too much Glenn Beck...

Agreed, Boomer. Maybe my posts don't reflect it..but I am an optimist. I have faced my share of adversity and always could see the silver lining but I have the worst feeling in my gut right now. I have never seen so many proposed "changes" to our way of life in my lifetime. Our buddy above is right...we should concentrate in fighting our way out of this recession instead of spooking our businesses and factories.(and investors).
Are we still taking bets for the stock market Monday?

Comment:

Oh, you mean like your picture of Obama putting up drapes? Yep, that's would definitely be a "snippet just to get a rise out of people." What's that expression? "Practice what you preach."