ObamaCare Applied to Restaurants.
 

Very well done with more truth than one wants to admit. Unfortunately you are not going to find all that many gov't health care fans willing to look at it reasonably.



`

It is similar in tactics in it's messaging mode as used
 

by the Obama campaign ads.

btk

Give me a break!
 

This is ridiculous! :oops:

That video is so right on! Every point that was made has been documented. For you doubters... just ask anybody from Canada!

I have!
 

Some of our dearest friends live in Canada. They also have a home in TV. They wouldn't trade the health care system in Canada for the world. All yearly exams are free and when something critical happens, they have been more than well taken care of. Sorry. You're living in the dark ages. We do not come anywhere close to leading the world in health care. Jump into the 21st century!

If we have "the finest healthcare system" in the world, why are our costs the highest, infant mortality among the highest and life expectancy decreasing?
Have you ever talked to the many Canadians who visit The Villages? They brag about freedom of choice, no waiting and excellent, low-cost health insurance.

Ya, right
 

I know a lot of people from Canada and they say it is fine unless you get sick. I have a friend who is a doctor and is told by the government how many patients he can see per month. By the 20th of the month he has hit his limit and has to not work or get fined etc. Great system where the waiting list to get assigned a family doctor is two to three years. That is to get a doctor if you don't have one.

Uh-oh
 

This is not a good metaphor to make the point against Obama's health care reform plan.
I have made my position clear that i am AGAINST Obama's plan and why in previous posts.

Anyway, getting back to the restaurant video. 37 years ago when I was a freshman in medical school we had a few medical ethics and medical economics classes that also used the restaurant metaphor. Now, follow my thinking here; How many of you came to TV for the first time on the "lifestyle tour package" and were given meal coupons to Katie Belle's and ordered (or were encouraged to order by your waitress) pounds of steak, lobster, veal chops--- you know, the ones on the menu that are priced in the 70 dollar range? This is what happens when you have an open menu and SOMEONE ELSE is picking up the tab. One of the main factors for most middle class Americans when the choose where to go eat and what to order is COST. If everyone had their dining out experiences picked up 100% by a 3rd party (insurance or the gov't) with no oversight human nature is such that the "Katie Belle experience" would abound and costs would explode out of control. This is true on both sides of the examining table. When Doctors are given a blank check to do as many procedures as they can and are compensated per procedure the "Katie Belle experience" again repeats itself.

Thus... "managed care" has entered the picture to tell you that the menu is limited and if you want the 70 dollar veal chop you will have to pay for it. The ethical challenge arises when this question is asked: 'who decides what is going to be on the menu and what is paid for by the 3rd party?"

SO, the video in this example only holds water if/when we pay for our health care the same way we pay for our Ney York strip steak or our Big Mac's... by reaching directly into our wallets and paying for it with our own cash.

Since I don't know specifically what folks from Canada have
 

it is impossible to speak one way or another. Unless they have a one size fits all...that no matter who one talks to from Canada, they would have no more or less than the next Canadian. But if they have a standard offering with al carte programs, then who knows what they have when the one asked responds positively.

So without knowing whether Canadian apples are being compared to Canadian grapefruits a legitimate answer is not in the works.

As usual details are required to make an appropriate conclusion.

btk

The TV analogy is great. Thanks!

First, let me say that I am not in favor of his plan. One thing we already have here that seems to parallel what you say about Canada are the HMO's, though. They are told how many, how much, etc. Our primary physician we had back home had to cut many of his patients because he was making too many referrals to specialists. Of course had he totally "played by their rules", my husband would have died instead of seeing a cardiologist and getting stents.....with 2 major arteries over 90% blocked, he was a heart attack waiting to happen. Same thing with getting him a colonoscopy. Nothing showed up on the office exam, but the more thorough procedure caught already pre-cancerous polyps. I needed an MRI for diagnosis which they denied at first. My physician simply chose to admit me to the hospital in order to do what needed to be done. When asked to approve the hospitalization, they decided that I could go ahead and have the MRI on an out-patient basis instead. Guess what....they found my problem, fixed it, and no more problem.

We just need something that is workable and I'm not smart enough to know what that is. I am smart enough to know what it isn't, however.

Funny how when people in Canada, GB and other countries need serious care they come here. I don't see to many people being rushed to Canada for treatment.

You know one of the bills in congress that's part of his plan would make it illegal for me to purchase private coverage should I loose my job? I'd be forced into government care or pay a fine of $2500 a year.

Obama was asked about it today in a town hall meeting and said he wasn't familiar with the bill. Even he doesn't know what's in the plan.

My God, how could anyone support this disaster? Maybe the same people who signed contracts on homes with out reading the fine print and then got foreclosed on?

If it wasn't so scary, It would be funny.

Obama Admits "Not Familiar" With House Bill
 

Here is a good link with some interesting facts:
http://www.heritage.org/2009/07/21/m...th-house-bill/

It doesn't matter anymore. If Obama supports it then it must be ok. No need to read anything... just sign here.

Ineresting
 

http://www.heritage.org/2009/07/21/m...th-house-bill/ :shrug:

Yes indeed. :shrug:

However, for some it would seem more like. :bowdown:

Go figure...

Canadian Health Care
 

You can ask me. I'm an "anybody" from Canada with a home in The Villages.

The Canadian Health Care System is fabulous. Not perfect, but I feel I'm blessed to have access to excellent and free health care. Most of the negative c*ap written here about the Canadian system is untrue.

I never have a problem getting the care or services I require .. from MRIs to Bone Density tests to Ultrasound, etc. Five years ago I was critically ill (I'm fine now). I was hospitalized for three months. I had the finest specialists and surgeons taking care of me, free.

I'm not saying the U.S. should have socialized medicine. I think a recession is a poor time to implement such a huge undertaking. But socialized medicine is working in Canada. Yes, we pay for our system with higher taxes. No argument there. But please don't denigrate the Canadian system unless you know what you're yaking about.

The link to The Foundry presented above is revealing
 

and reflects, at least in this particular incident, what happens whn Obama goes off TOTUS. The real Obama starts to show through. Not saying good, bad or indifferent...it is more real than the canned, usual prepared Obama rhetoric.

One would think on this issue there would have been some anticipation? Some preparation! Does it present an attitude?

I also found the readers comments that follow the article to be very interesting. Where were the supporting commentaries?
Hmmmmnnnn. Where are the staunch supporters of Obama and what do they have to offer in support of their man's health care proposal?

Another article this morning stated that the program would/could not go into effect until around 2018. And where will Obama be in 2018? Ten years to get the infrastructure developed, written and implemented.
We went to the moon in less time than that.
There was commentary against drilling for oil in the US to stave of foreign oil...the rhetoric from the administration was that was too long range and far out to be practical.....THE TIME FRAME BEING CRITICIZED WAS 10 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If this legislation should happen to go forward then we will most certainly be a nation truly on a path to certain decline. With no checks and balances we should be very concerned.

As another aside has anybody seen or heard from their representatives about the impact on those of us on Medicare and supplemental insurance?

btk

Does this count as anyone in Canada?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw[/ame]

Thanks for the video DK. Pajama TV is an excellent source of facts and entertainment. They are affiliated with my favorite site, Instapundit.

The Audio
 

Do you even listen???
 

Did any of you even hear what this lady had to say??? Guess you're too busy Obama Bashing.

23 Trillion
 

This guy is worth listening.

http://www.youtube.com/v/iQQLGnD5baI..._embedded&fs=1

Democrats Divided
 

I get the same feedback whenever I golf with a Canadian.

It's irrelevant. So what. I'm glad she's happy and received good care in her case. Many in Canada think their health care stinks. Both my wife and I have received stellar health care right hear in in the U.S.A and our premiums have always been affordable and the service quick for anything we needed.

Do you listen to what people have to say or do you only operate on blind Obama faith?

Unlike yourself do you really expect people just to sign on the dotted line without reading what's in the contract? People are reading it and they DON'T LIKE IT.

Hell, even Obama doesn't know what's in the contract. No different than all the pork and stimulus spending. Don't read, just sign here.

Maybe that's ok for some of you but not for me and thank God not for others.

And the system may be the greatest thing since sliced bread in the right set of circumstances.

Let's not forget that Canada's total population is approximately 5 million less than California's and approximately 10% of the USA's. Canada and the USA are within 0.3% of the same land mass size, with over 80% of Canada's population within 100 miles of the Canada/USA border.

So, an effort in the USA to mirror Canada's social medicine system would immediately involve setting up a structure at least ten times larger than Canada's. Such an undertaking would be monstrous and not happen overnight. In fact, it may take at least as long as Canada took (1946-1961), as Canada started the system one-province-at-a-time. The logic of that is self-evident, as each province was able to learn from the successes and failures of the previous province, making the system more efficient each time. In a comparable population setting, it would be like each California county establishing a medical care system one-at-a-time, with the whole state eventually tied together.

So, do we really think we are smarter, better capable, and more efficient than our Northern Neighbors that we can just set up such a system nationally from the get-go and have it work even half-right? Common sense says start off with a small state (e.g., one of the Dakota's, Rhode Island, etc.) based on state desire to be the pilot program, give them grant money to make it work, and then expand the network state-by-state if this is the type of care we want. From a program management standpoint, anything else is doomed to be fraught with cost overruns, fraud and mismanagement. As lives are at stake, doesn't it make more sense that if we really do this, we learn from how others have done it and emulate what was considered successful?

If it took Canada 15 years to set up such a program to handle a population 90% smaller than the USA's, what makes us think we can do it with the stroke of a federal pen and the "wisdom" of Congress? Talk about arrogance!

Haven't we in fact already tried it in one state?

Mass. healthcare reform is failing us.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ed...is_failing_us/

It really goes back to one simple FACT.

Social Security is bankrupt.
Medicare is bankrupt.
The government itself is basically bankrupt.
Freddie and Fannie are a total disaster.
Our public schools, most of them are a total disaster.
Mass. healthcare reform is a disaster.
The list goes on and on.

So tell me folks. What on God’s green earth makes you think government can effectively improve on and run our healthcare system?

Add cap-n-tax to this mess and you have an epic financial disaster for all but the most rich in this country. And when we go after what they have left they will simply hunker down and sit on their money. That means less jobs. At almost 10% unemployment and still climbing are less jobs really a good thing?

Think people think.

Very good,Steve. Again you bring valuable information to to light, especially to this abyss called socialized health care. I think if information like this was dispersed through media sources, people would realize that these proposals are not some kind of magic solutions.

Massachusetts Healthcare is a Failure
 

Amen.......:agree:

Interesting comment on "Obama Bashing" !

I can understand how you feel that way..honestly; what is interesting that you could not understand when other folks complained about "Bush bashing" (which was VERY VERY PERSONAL) !!!

I was responding to Ooper's post "ask anyone from Canada". I've had 50 years experience with the system. I'll just bet I know more Canadians than Ooper and dklassen, and most are very satisfied with their health care. If I'd bashed Canada's healthcare system, I don't think dlassen would have dismissed my comments as irrelevant!

Having said that, I do agree that this is not the time to consider implementing such a huge and expensive change in the US. I sincerely doubt that most Americans will readily accept the high taxes necessary to support such a system, especially in today's economic climate.

I wouldn't be surprised if this health care bill dies a quiet death, and goes away for now, just like the last one (93?). Most agree that health care and Social Security both need change/reform, but both are too politically sensistive to get much done. Maybe next time around?

Let this thing die
 

All very good points All along we are being told none of this will raise our taxes. Only for the very rich. :agree::agree:

I wonder if maybe some of the provinces may be better then others. I learned today that it took 15 years and at province at a time, to get the system complete. Do you enjoy the health care, here in the States??

Am I to assume that you do not approve of bashing Presidents?;)

It is true that people living near Canadian cities are able to obtain much better health care options than people living in isolated areas. Doctors don't want to practice in remote areas. But that would be true with any type of medicine.

As a Canadian, the US government only allows us to stay in the US for 182 days per year. So I don't use US health care. I wait until I get back to Canada where it is free.

And by the way, it is a popular misconception that Canadians get free drugs. We don't.

:agree::agree::agree: A smaller government, less taxes system, is what our country needs!