What consititutes a "business" in The Villages
 

We have been recently informed by the Deed Compliance office that we can't use our home address to receive TOTV related mail. I guess, they feel that it implies that we are conducting business from our home. As a matter of convenience, we listed our home address for mail that we get for Talk of The Villages through our corporate name. The compliance office has told us that we can't do that and we have to move the address out of the Villages. We can't do business inside the Villages. IN our case, our server is in Canada, the business office is in Pa. and the IT office is is Tennessee. We just get our mail here. There is absolutely no vehicular traffic at our house, no meetings, no transactions, just a piece of mail now and then. 90% of our correspondence is by email.

It was indicated to us that there is a "crack down" under way.

One has to wonder how many business are actually run in the Villages and when will the Compliance Office lower the boom on people who are picking up a few extra bucks from home. I'm guessing there are thousands of people using ebay, doing taxes, selling merchandise, cutting lawns, installing carpet, house watching and so on.

We were turned in by one of our members. If a neighbor turns you in, you gotta stop conducting your business, I guess.

It kinda gives me the willies to think that we have to be careful about who knows what, for fear they will report you to the authorities. Any thoughts?

And, yes, I know it is spelled out in the deed restrictions. My only defense was that the business is conducted elsewhere and that we just get mail our here. I was told that using my home address to get my business mail is forbidden.

As I mentioned in the "Installing a Door" blurb
 

I said it once and I'll say it again a hundred times, "Don't ask .... "I won't tell". Same problem regarding the door installations problem. Seems like there is an "obligatory snitch" in every village.
I again mentioned it when I stated, "Soon these bozos will be telling you what to eat and what kind of toilet paper to buy!" Keep laughing folks ....... cause soon the joke will be on you.
A man's home is his castle. What he does on it or in it should be his or her own business. (literally speaking).

Some busybody is going to come to my house and tell me I can't make or sell fishing lures, paint a door, etc..............? First time that happens we are outta here and everyone will know why. I am so sick of hearing what we can and cannot do.

Isn't bad enough you have to ask permission like a school kid to fix your own home, now they want to tell you what you can and cannot do inside your home! This should rate a full page expose' in the local fishwrap.

I am curious on how they phrased the restriction on receiving TOTV mail at your address. I doubt that TV, even with any political clout they may have, can tell you what mail you can and cannot receive at your home. I would guess that there are thousands of people that still own businesses elsewhere and receive mail here for that business. Or even if they sold the business paperwork could continue to arrive for quite a while.

Part of the reason I am dwelling on the mail issue is that I am a retired manager from the postal service. If you say you want to receive mail addressed to GGG Hoozzywatisheimer, Inc., we are required to deliver it. The only thing that stops that is; 1) you refuse the mail, 2) there is a dispute over who is entitled to the mail and a subsequent court order to stop delivery. (Usually this happens in a divorce or when a business splits up and everyone wants the checks, no one wants the bills.)

I guess one would have to interpret the intent of deed restriction. Is it to stop any and all business in a home? I answer the phone and it is one of my former employees with a technical issue - is that business? Because of my expertise I collect $100 for writing an opinion on the benefits of mechanizing postal operations in Oxford - is that business? I sell things on ebay - is that business? My opinion is that anything you do via the mail, or internet, or non-traffic producing business is okay.

On the other hand, I think anything that does create traffic is not okay, like putting a sign out front saying "computers fixed here". Okay, you don't need the sign, but if people are dragging their computers to your house - I say no.

If a villager cuts lawns what difference does it make if he comes to your house or someone from Wildwood does the job?

So, for my 2 cents TOTV doesn't create traffic anywhere except on a screen in your home - it is okay.

One last thing on the subject of mail - how would TV know what mail you are receiving at your home?

I think the mail issue is rather petty. Receiving TOTV mail does not infringe on anyone. However, running a beauty salon, barber shop, selling anything out of your garage, etc., to me is running a business. This attracts traffic and does violate the covenents. Another example I just saw advertised in the Daily Sun, where someone has opened an EBay drop off with an address in TV. How soon will the folks in that neighborhood get fed up with a stream of people dropping off items to be sold on EBay.
Common sense should prevail on the part of residents AND the Villages.

I had actually considered doing the eBay business but one of my prime considerations was storing the stuff, I figured you would have to rent some space somewhere. Never did my business plan include people dropping stuff at my home.

When we moved to Florida, we switched our corporation From New York to Florida. We never intended to have a Florida office. When we filled out the Florida paperwork, we used our home address as a matter of convenience. That's is probably the beef that they have with me. It's complicated because we have our business and advertising office in Pennsylvania. Absolutely none of the administrative work is done in my residence.

If I had listed a PO box in Oxford, I'm thinking it would be different. It doesn't matter to The Villages if business is actually conducted or not at your house, you just can have a mailing address that is associated with business.

If you have a check written to "Fred's Lawn Mowing Service, 123 Morse Blvd, The Villages, Florida," you are in violation. To me, there is a giant leap between receiving mail at your house and actually conducting business at your house. But then, how could they know the difference.

Restraint of Trade refers to activity that obstructs, limits, or eliminates market competition. Restraints may affect particular occupations, industries, or commercial transactions. Restraints are prohibited by the first section of the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890 (Title 15 of the United States Code), the main source of American antitrust law, which forbids "every contract, combination in the form of trust or otherwise, or conspiracy, in restraint of trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations." The state attorneys general, under the direction of the federal Attorney General, have primary enforcement duties.

Restraint of trade takes a multitude of forms, ranging from private activity (e.g., contracts between two parties) to government regulation (e.g., licensing requirements or quotas). Common practices include noncompetition clauses, exclusive dealing arrangements, and price discrimination.

Just Curious
 

If you cannot conduct "business" from your home, then why does the Villages owned Daily Sun accept classified ads from persons doing "business"? Seems kinda like a double standard to me. At least when you are partaking of Villagers in business, you don't stand much of a chance of being taken for a ride, or worse yet, broken into later. As for someone reporting you, don't they have anything better to do than mind everyone else's business? I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't have the time to worry about what my neighbor does or doesn't do. I have all I can do to take care of my own stuff. What do they do....tote around a copy of the covenants and restrictions to be sure their neighbors, etc. are in compliance? Get a life!!

I am an advocate for logical, reasonable deed restrictions (aka convenants). But the interpretation reported by TH about commercial businesses (as well as some of the pet owner concerns) begs the question. If a restriction does not make sense, what is the process to get it changed?

From the general CDD website on deed restrictions:

Residential Use Restrictions: Property must be devoted only to single-family residential use. Commercial and or professional activities may not be conducted in any home or on any property.

For my specific neighborhood:

"Properties within the subdivision are intended for residential use and no commercial, professional, or similar activity requiring either maintaining an inventory, equipment, or customer/client visits may be conducted in a home or on a homesite"

There's an obvious disconnect between these two statements and TH may have an entirely different provision in his covenants. The language for my neighborhood makes a lot more sense and would not mean that TH/TOTV is violating the covenants.


To show how absurd some of the restrictions are...here's another one from my neighborhood:

"All owners shall notify the Developer when leaving their property for more than a 7 day period and shall simultaneously advise the Developer of their tentative return date"

Hey Gary... heading to the beach...see ya next month. Yeah, right.

I asked, simply as a matter of curiosity, what action can be taken by The Villages against a homeowner who refuses to comply and continues to conduct business. The answer I got, from the person who called me, was, "I don't really know. It would likely be turned over to the county."

Now, I ask you, what earthly concern is it of the county if a deed restriction in The Villages is being violated. I've been wrong before (I think) but I suspect the county doesn't have any enforcement authority.

BTW, I plan to go about the annoying process of changing the address on my business mail to an address on the outside. I don't want any trouble. We have 10,000 members and I don't want to jeopardize your forum just to defend a principal. TOTV has always tried to be a good neighbor and a good source of information for residents and would be residents.

TH...not to be splitting hairs here...but, aren't you in the process of selling your Villages house and moving to a new community? So, it will be a moot point soon enough. Doesn't seem like it's worthwhile to make an extra set of mail changes.

But, that still doesn't detract from the silliness of the interpretation you got from deed compliance. Have you checked the specific wording of your covenants? If yours are like mine, you've done nothing wrong.

You are correct that my future plans don't detract from the actions of the Deed Compliance office. It may well be a moot point for me, but what about the other 5,000 offenders who have yet to be caught. What if I was staying here for the next 75 years? Sooner or later, I would be forced to change the address.

I've read thing on this forum that imply TV is not happy having TOTV around. Could this just be an attempt to shut us down?

Yeah, but.... if you'll re-read the excerpt from the deed restrictions for my section/unit of The Villages, I think you'll see that what you're doing (and most of the other home-based businesses) is perfectly allowable ... at least, how I read it. I think this is the spirit of the restriction... to forbid home-based businesses that involve client visits and movement of a lot of merchandise in and out that would/could be disruptive to neighbors.

The real issue is...do all covenants read like mine? If not, how to get them in sync. If they all do say the same thing, then whomever you spoke with in Deed Compliance was mistaken and you could escalate the issue to get a clearer ruling.


From my deed restrictions (circa July 2006):


"Properties within the subdivision are intended for residential use and no commercial, professional, or similar activity requiring either maintaining an inventory, equipment, or customer/client visits may be conducted in a home or on a homesite"

Anecdote: I know someone who was cutting hair in her home with numerous client visitors; a disgruntled customer/neighbor 'turned her in'; the deed compliance person advised her that she could no longer operate out of her home but could travel to her clients and continue her business. She said deed compliance tried to work with her and was not heavy-handed.

villages07 - you are right on with getting the deed restrictions in sync.

The following link just lists the deed restrictions in Sumter County - I looked through a few a they definitely vary:

http://www.districtgov.org/vccdd/dee...mterCounty.asp

Seems like I recall that the CDD has no enforcement powers. These are not statutes we are talking about.

In case of a violation of a covenant or restriction, the CDD or the developer could sue the perp, or any person could sue the CDD for allowing the violation to exist. A judge is the one who decides, not the CDD.

Hmmm... TH, how on earth would a member know the mailing address that you are using for TOTV business correspondence?

It's possible to find out any information from public records.

I really don't believe that to be the case.

I guess I can't figure out how someone knows what mail you receive. Don't think my neighbors or anyone else around here knows what mail I receive. Seems to me BogeyBoy is right about this. Who cares what mail someone gets?

Becky

If you check the public records for coporations, LLCs or any other type of business, you can learn the mailing address of the company and the principals of the business.

In regard to "who cares what mail someone gets, " a person makes it their business to find out this type of information when they set out to cause as much trouble, heartache and problem for somebody as they can possibly muster. The same type of person who sends over 60 threatening emails. The same type of person who promises the police that they will discontinue the "cyber stalking" immediately, then continue the next day. There are all kinds of people out there with all kinds of motivations. We all have our crosses to bear.

Business In Villages
 

There are a couple of questions I would have if I were you. (a) Is this selective enforcement since others are conducting business in the villages (b) how would anyone know what mail you receive at your home without an invasion of privacy and (c) does receiving mail alone necessarily constitute doing business.
A simple call to an Attorney asking for a legal position seems to be in order.

Sounds like someone needs to MTOB (their own)! Who has time to check all that info and why do they care? They need serious help. I'd be inclined to check with an attorney for the stalking! Scary!

Becky

I am in a minority.
 

I am sure this places me in a minority but there are a number of things about living in TV that I do not like. (ok, I'm ready for the "love it or leave it responses"). This big brother, paternalistic mentality is repugnant.

Open up a post office box in Lady Lake.

Funny, you should say that. We did have a post office box in Lady Lake (for six years) to avoid just this issue. We closed it three weeks ago and forwarded our mail to this address in preparation for our move. This all happened inside the past three weeks.

Sounds like you have a number of good reasons to move.

Talk Host...You are moving away from The Villages? It make me sad to see good people leave. It is still my number one wish to move down south and probably to TV. Are you moving far away?

We are building a new house East of Tampa. We wanted to be a little further south and a little warmer winter climate with a larger piece of property.

Really not a big deal other than costing a few bucks
 

Here's what you do. You go to one of those mail box places and get a box, then for a small service charge they will put your mail in another envelope and send it to your personal address addressed to Jan.:pepper2:

You lucky guy. We have some good friends who built a beautiful home in the Weeki Wachee/Brooksville area a couple of years ago and they love it. They looked at all of the communities in the Central FL and decided they wanted a bigger property, and liked the fact that their housing $$'s went a little further too.

i don't understand
 

ok, you cannot receive any 'business-related' mail in the villages? i get free subscriptions for many trade magazines, as i enjoy keeping informed as to what is going on in all sorts of businesses. so, i will no longer be able to receive these at my villages home? since when can deliveries by the us postal service be denied based on content or subject matter? ( i guess that is why pornography can be delivered anywhere, not that i have ever received any)
am curious, since there are many home-based web businesses that require nothing but email access and occasional mail delivery. what about someone who sells insurance, and only visits clients at the clients location? it seems to me that this is confusing more and more.
jeff

I say that's not necessary and a waste of money. Just receiving mail - and we're jumping through all these hoops? (Unless I am missing something TH says he is just receiving some business mail at his residence. Now if he is getting shipments of widgets and letting everyone on TOTV come over and buy them, that's something different.)

Another issue that's been missed here - the sender is who controls where the mail goes. He pays the postage, can endorse it various ways, and can get it back if it isn't delivered. (I know, I know - if you are giving out your address for your business the logical thing for the mailer to do is mail it there.)

Where do you draw the line? Let's say you're a Doctor who lives in TV. Your phone rings and it's Charlie Crist asking about his sore throat. Sorry Charlie, call my office. The Doctor gets a magazine in the mail about medical procedures and tells his neighbor to come over and discuss a possible surgery. Send in the stormtroopers.

I guess since we send payment for our lawn cutting service to an address in The Villages this person would also be in non-compliance.

How about realtors (both MLS and TV Realty) who live in TV? Seems like they might also receive mail and maybe see a client now and then at their home.

Well, good luck. I had to laugh when you said "warmer climate" as we have had the coldest few years that I can remember. Most of July has been in the high 60's-to low 70's. I can't take much more of this global warming. LOL

How about folks who have craft or art items they produce in their homes and then sell at the craft fairs...does that qualify as a home based business? What do the "no-no police" do then?

I sure hope not, people seem to like my craftsman style stainglass lamps and have started buying them from word of mouth. I thought that might be a good, keep busy, not feel useless thing to do in retirement. Does this mean that a glass kiln and glass wire saw can't be in my garage if we move there. Guess I might have to look elsewhere.

Keep getting your mail
 

If the rules were followed exactly, half the Village Realtors could not conduct business from their homes. Let them get a court order to inspect your mail !
GOOD LUCK

Oddly enough, both my husband and I receive business mail here at our address. Our name appears first and then the business name. That includes professional publications. Perhaps the personal name being first is the key.

Frankly, it sounds like someone is trying to make trouble for TH, sad that.

social clubs
 

Don't some of the social clubs operate as a business. Can of worms?