A Lesson on Liberal Education and Freedom of Speech
 

Below is a link to a very small portion of a great speech that I heard at a college commencement that I attended a week ago. I mentioned it on another thread, but felt the message was so well delivered that it deserved a thread of its own -

Fareed Zakaria: Liberals think they're tolerant, but they're not - CNN.com

The entire speech can be heard here -

Fareed Zakaria Gives Bucknell University's 2017 Commencement Address - YouTube

I hope both sides on this forum will at least take a look at these links. It presents a great guideline for how we should be engaging with one another on this forum - and that goes for both parties, not just one.

Happy Memorial Day to all. An important day to come together, despite our differences, to celebrate this great country and the many who served and gave their all.

Thanks for the link. My views on life have changed quite a lot from when I was 22 or so though which is probably the age of many of these undergraduates. And most universities and colleges are liberal at least the ones I went to-- U of Nevada, Reno; U of Denver; and especially the U of MN. BYU was not but that is a special case. And the College of San Mateo was a Community College but the Spanish teacher I had was quite liberal. Various other universities and colleges I visited were also quite liberal like Arizona State U, the U of Texas at El Paso; U of CA SF, SUNY at Buffalo, North Carolina Central U., etc.

I believe this to be true.

I do not believe it to be something new at all, certainly as some on here would try to make it "Trump related". Those of you who were fortunate enough to attend college can certainly relate.

I attended college later in life, after service time, and was a bit older, thus I could clearly see a difference. It is simply a fact that universities are more liberal.

I do think however, that the divide between liberal and conservatives is wider. Both sides have moved to the extremes, thus that liberal attitude early in college life will be more pronounced.

University life helped me a lot, as I had a lot of questions after my military experiences, and while each answer I got was not easily accepted, I did learn how to search for truth and to honor truth.

If a professor lied to me, that was it. If he/she even colored the truth, I was very upset. I am not speaking of opinions...opinions normally generated more discussion and I honored that.

I think there were quite a few liberal leanings back in my college days as well. I believe much of it escaped me because I spent 4 of my college years in a professional school where there was little time for professors to even talk about such things. The sheer volume of material that they had to teach left little time for any other type of discussion. However, friends of mine in other fields of study experienced more of that than I did, so it definitely was an influence even 40 years ago.

We have posters who will jump on the headline and never ever read the links provided. Two things about the OP...first, the comment "It presents a great guideline for how we should be engaging with one another on this forum - and that goes for both parties, not just one.". This is true....

I get sickened with the generalizations on here..."all liberals" are this or that.....my problem is not with any ideology, but with the man who is President, thus my criticisms are of that person. Condemning groups of people is just horrible.

Secondly, PLEASE NOTE the definition of liberal in the link. It is not aimed at Democrats, progressives, or any of the such. Comments on this thread which is a great thread should keep this in mind.


""The word liberal in this context has nothing to do with today's partisan language, but refers instead to the Latin root, pertaining to liberty. And at the heart of liberty in the Western world has been freedom of speech. From the beginning, people understood that this meant protecting and listening to speech with which you disagreed," Zakaria argued.
That means, he said, not drowning out "the ideas that we find offensive."

To come on this forum and dismiss millions of fellow Americans is, to me the epitome of being totally UN American

If you get a chance to listen to the youtube video, he starts out by praising the virtues of a liberal education and then explaining what it really means (much like what you expressed in your response in bold above), which is very different from the liberalism of politics today.

I totally agree with you about the extremes in both parties. I really like his ideas in how to deal with it though, not by intolerance, but by asking questions, listening, and expecting to learn something from that exchange. We at least owe that much to one another.

Good post.

I personally find it disgusting to read all the nincompoops on here making the claims..."all progressives"...."all liberals"...."all conservatives" etc., etc.

It is an acknowledgement of their lack of reading and understanding of the real world.

Again, I criticize one person....the President....I could never generalize about people based on ideologies, color of skin, party registration, country of birth, and vent on millions of my fellow Americans.

You gotta listen, but you don't gotta listen to closed mind hate monger, and this forum has been taken over by a number of folks who fall into that category.

Just seeing this post now and realizing you must have listened to at least some of his speech. Thank you so much for clarifying all of this for me (OP). I should have definitely given it a different title as it comes across very combative and it is not. It is the title that CNN gave the article and like most all the news networks today, the title is sensationalized to say the least. It is a good message for ALL. It's not meant to be a swipe against liberals and definitely not against liberal thinking. Thanks again!

Memory is selective
 

Perhaps my fault but I do not recall any student interaction on politics and government. I cannot comment about military service and vietnam for I did not EARN the right.
I had a legitimate 4F and they would not have taken me IF, I TRULY WANTED TO GO.

My first two years, I attended a community college AT NIGHT and worked a 40 hour a week job plus some weekends. I remember not having time to waste in the bathroom so I did some reading there.

I have no sympathy for the you owe mees of this country.

As to that speech. I am embarrassed that far too many of the people who recognize the great opportunity this country offers are foreign born.

This country was not built on equal standard of living but on equal opportunity. The concept of equal standard of living is communism. It is actually a great liberal thought-OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT IT DOES NOT WORK.
There are sooooo many examples-East Germany vs West Germany, Greece, N. Korea vs South Korea etc and while we turn more and more toward communism and socialism, the communist socialist countries turn more and more toward capitalism. In the real world, people work harder for themselves then for the collective. By working hard, they produce and all of the collective benefit.

The concept of FAIR is a term tossed about by liberals.
IT IS UNDEFINED two people look at the same thing and do not agree what is fair.

I do not recall who said it but,"The difference between success and failure is that the successful person keeps trying." For me failure was simply not an option.

When, I graduated college I received a note of congratulation and that my first college loan payment was due in ??????? two months????????

Financially, I did quite well. ONLY REASON WAS THAT FAILURE WAS NOT AN OPTION.

I believe you seriously, and within a very wide margin just did not comprehend what is a genuinely good thread, and you need to reread what this is about before showing your lack of comprehension

Wow
 

This was an INTERESTING election.

As to Trump-HE IS YOUR PRESIDENT. I do choose to remind you that when Obama was elected he was the chosen president of all the people including those who did not vote for him. IF THAT IS NOT SO, THEN I WHO DID NOT VOTE FOR HIM SHOULD NOT OWE HIS TEN TRILLION DOLLAR OVERDRAFT. It is not, it was not the republicans blocking speakers who opposed their view. It was not the Republicans at Harvard smashing school property. It was not the republicans creating a news story of Trumps people beating up on that female reporter? when the video showed she was full of ........ Reminder-It was Hillary clearly caught mishandling government e-mails. If, you have not put it together Hillary's government e-mails were found on a computer shared by DISGRACED Anthony Weiner and Huma Aberdeen. Do a little READING and you will find Huma Aberdeen's family is in Saudi Arabia AND SHE HAS NO SECURITY CLEARANCE. Hillary approved the sale of 20% of the US uranium reserves to RUSSIA. For that deal Hilary pocketed 145 million. You want to complain about Trump talking to Russians.

You object to Trump-that is your right. But, do you really believe Bill Clinton stopped Loretta Lynch on the tarmac to discuss grand kids.

Had Hillary Clinton won the election she would have been immediately impeached for her many criminal acts. Oh, and we have a two term limit on the presidency. From his own words when Bill Clinton was elected we got two for the price of one. Had Hillary won it would have been an illegal third term for the CLINTON GANG.

Trump is certainly not as SLICK A LIAR as the Clinton gang is. Hillary is actually even more of a socialist than Obama.
This past election was capitalism vs socialism. There is nothing wrong with socialism-EXCEPT THAT IT DOESN'T;T WORK. There are so many examples: East Germany compared to West Germany, North Korea compared to South Korea, GREECE. Trump crudely announced that ONLY four countries have paid what they owe: the US, Brittan and two other small countries I do not recall, I don't know your history but I've many times had people owe me money. Depending on how much it can cost you more to collect than makes sense. If, someone owes me money I ask nicely a few times and then I will not only send a collection agency, an atty after them but I will do my best to make it public. As to Brittan, if I recall they only paid after Trump asked them nicely?

As the PROGRESSIVE LIBERALS scream for more socialism the socialist/communist countries Russia/China are moving toward capitalism and more rights for their people.

fREEDOM IS SOMETHING YOU EARN. IT IS NOT SOMETHING YOU EXPECT GOVERNMENT TO GIVE YOU.
LOOK AT ANYTHING YOU RELY ON GOVERNMENT FOR-THE PRICE IS YOUR RIGHT TO CHOOSE.

Do you really claim to have an opened mind?

Again, maybe these threads are over your head.

You, like most Trump supporters want to make every thread and every conversation about Hillary Clinton and/or progressives.

Attention.....the election was over 6 months ago. Get over the election.

But, having said that, this thread had to do with LISTENING, being open and haVing discussions, and BASICALLY THE VERY OPPOSITE of what you post.

It is about sharing, learning and respect.

All your threads are designed to knock off millions and millions of Americans, put them in a bundle, label them and move on.

Sorry, you just need better comprehension skills to understand this thread. It is not about Trump....it is not about Clinton...it is not about Obama.

Now that may restrict your ability or desire, but the thread is about being open on either side of the aisle. You obviously disrespect the OP and didn't even take the time to understand what it was

By the way, I have an extremely open mind. My complaint is not, nor has it ever been with any conservative policies, but with Trump personally. Instead of explaining that, which you will not understand anyway, I will respect the OPs intent in starting this thread.

Indeed the progressive have completely redefined the meaning of liberalism. There are a number of notable authors who have written on how this came about.

One author argues that a communist element entered via colleges and universities.

One author argued that liberal intellectual elitist believe they always have the high moral ground and as such that they dismiss out of hand others opinions.

From a pedestrian point of view the democratic party of my father is no where to be found .

My father a dye in the wool liberal democratic was angered that I moved to the Repbulican Party during the 1960's but as I told him I didn't move the democratic party's platform moved

Personal Best Regards:

Another who didn't read, listen or understand the thread, but quickly reads a headline and attack. Not a very bright person

WOW!!!!! What an honest, rational viewpoint. A liberal calling out his own people.

I rarely listened to this guy in the past because his broadcasts are usually so biased. But it's good that he's recognizing this. If more people on both sides recognized this problem, perhaps we could stop the name calling and start solving some of todays' problems.

In the same context, here is a great speech by Speaker, Paul Ryan given on the House floor the day after police were killed in an ambush attack in Dallas.

Having been there in person for this speech, my first instinct was to tune out so as not to be tempted to anger my liberal sister, or embarrass my nephew who was graduating, with my unnecessary comments. But boy, was I glad that I didn't. Yes, it can be taken as him calling out his own people, but in actuality, he was really calling out all of us - my own example/attitude being case in point. I posted this because I know it changed me. I hope others are also brought to a deeper understanding of how we must treat one another if we are to move forward in this country.

What happened? White men LET women and minorities have a say. OF COURSE they want things "their way". But unfortunately...their way...doesn't work.

The white male way works. It's what brought us to where were are now...oops...where we WERE in the late 1950s...when western civilization and America PEAKED. When we ALLOWED women and minorities to have an equal say, when we let them have quotas...is when it all started to fall apart. Face it, we went from #1 to where we are now...#25 because white men aren't completely in charge. Because white men aren't doing most of the jobs. Because white men are now down to 25% of the population.

There are NO successful "women run" or "minority run" societies or countries. Never have been. And it don't mean a country with a woman president but actually being run by men. I mean a place where women do EVERYTHING and the men play the subservient role. I don't mean a black "protectorate" either...where blacks "run things" but the money/expertise comes from somewhere else...a white country. Like the Bahamas, or Bermuda.

Forward? HOW do you define "forward"?

Wealthier or deeper in debt...which is "forward?

#1 in the world in just about everything or #25 where we currently reside?

BEST education system or down around #25?

Happiest people or again...down around #25?

Very few on welfare...or over half the population receiving a government benefit?

Crime and violence higher...or lower? Chicago makes a new record in murder each day.

White people 90% or 50% of the population? White people are being bred out by Hispanics who are now the majority below age 7 and having the majority of babies.

Best infrastructure or crumbling in decay? How can you fix the roads with 50 million hungry mouths to feed? When you spend over $1 trillion a year for welfare?

The "entertainment" industry distributes filth...things the children DON'T need to see. Do YOU have sex in front of your grandchildren? Then why let them watch strangers do it?

WHERE have we moved FORWARD Abby? Where? I see us collapsing into Mexico II as the Hispanics become the majority. Have you noticed that Mexican stores are everywhere now? That Mexicans are everywhere now? We ARE losing OUR country to invaders...invaders we invited in. Like letting a neighbor in hard times use a room in your house and they keep inviting more and more of their "relatives" who also need a place until they've taken over your whole house.

We should try to listen but the problem I still have with Donald John Trump is how he basically used name calling-- personal attacks-- to beat down the Republicans who were running against him and really only won the Presidency because of James Comey's ill timed announcement about Anthony Weiner's pictures of his anatomy on e-mails and other of Weiner's e-mails. Trump does not know what he is doing. He does know how to enrich his family using the White House as a massive ATM however. Trump has to earn the respect that Obama had from many. He continues to do stupid things and act like an ugly American overseas.

You state something in your post worth repeating -

"I am embarrassed that far too many of the people who recognize the great opportunity this country offers are foreign born"

Perhaps it is because they know what they have here in comparison, and as a result, how much they have to lose if this country declines in it's freedom and liberties. Like a child who has been handed everything from birth, many who were born here take it all for granted. When there is no gratitude for what one has been given, IMHO, it can often lead to lack of respect. This is what I see going on at some of these college campuses with the protests and riots.

I also like your "failure not an option" attitude. Of course, nothing is a failure if you learn something from it. :)

Either on purpose or by accident, you have totally mis understood and misstated what this thread and the article/video is about.

I suggest, if you seriously want to know, that you actually read the definition of LIBERAL as stated. You read the headline and stopped.

Well Abby...1/3 the population...100 million ARE foreign born or the child of a foreign born.

Then WHY in the world would you LET THEM CHANGE America into where they came from? America is slowly becoming Mexico II as the Hispanics are bringing THEIR culture HERE...a failed culture...is causing America to fail. We should have told them ALL to f@ck off...this is America...if you want to live here...you do it OUR way. No press 2 for Spanish...LEARN the language or go home. If you're genetically inferior you're NOT going to get special treatment and quotas...go home. Because YOU are here illegally and NOT "under the jurisdiction" neither is your illegal anchor baby. That ONE policy alone will be what ultimately destroys "America". 50 million anchor babies having 50 million children...and in one more generation...within 30 years...they win...they become the majority and America is lost forever.

Franklin said you have a republic if you can keep it...he didn't imagine you'd lose the entire country to "them"...the f@cking natives. The Hispanics are mostly indigenous stock with some Spanish DNA thrown in. This combination seemed to raise up the natives like the proto-humans interbreeding with the Neanderthals produced a superior hybrid that went on to make the modern world. Blacks were left out of this genetic mixing...species improving.

Sometimes...when you fail...you lose it all and there is no "learning from it". That's the mistake we are making now...a mistake that will be fatal to America...allowing the Hispanic invasion.

Well, let's just put it this way, Don, we're probably not headed anywhere good if all we do is argue amongst ourselves and don't listen to other viewpoints and at least try to understand. I don't have an argument with a lot of what you say because statiscally you are correct. I believe immigration should be tightened up and a lot of my immigrant friends and coworkers agree as they know how hard it was for them to get here the right way. The right way brings productive, intelligent human beings, such as this man, who most probably loves what this country stands for more than most American born citizens. So I have difficulty stereotyping people in the manner that you do, but I do see your point about certain neighborhoods,etc. It is a real problem in certain parts of our country. I just don't think the answer to these problems is a simple one and certainly will not be achieved without dialogue. My simple wish by starting this thread was an attempt to bring more civility to this forum......that's all.

You are correct. I don't agree that they should come here and be allowed to change it, and we should not give into that premise. My posts speak to immigrants, such as the one mentioned in the OP, who comes to this country and honors what this great country has to offer. What he has to say should rattle many of us who take it for granted. I think that's a good thing.....we all need a good wake-up call once in awhile and when the source comes from someone like this, I think it makes more people stand up and notice.

"My posts speak to immigrants, such as the one mentioned in the OP, who comes to this country and honors what this great country has to offer"

AND THAT is without a doubt the overwhelming majority of all immigrants.

Immigrants made this country great no matter where they came from or the color of their skin.

If someones ethnicity or skin color is how you determine people, you have a bad heart and life. You simply want to marginalize a group, label it and mock it to make your feel better.

It is now being used as a political tool which is truely sad.

I recall as a youth, and even in the last few years attending festivals of Irish, Polish or Slovenian ethnicity. Such great memories as people kept their own heritage alive while making a new life in our country.

It just seems to me that all we are doing recently is attacking everything that made this country great and saying it will make it great....NO, it was and is great....all this other stuff is simply going to tear it apart.

When do we even try and come together ?

This thread is a great example. The premise in this thread that Abby began was to open conversation about our lack of ability to talk to each other, and we make the point with our response...

Posters simply show nothing but disrespect for Abby as the OP by not even reading what she posted, by not even checking the actual contents of the links.

They read a headline and then attacked. That is exactly how so many view the "news"...they read a headline and stop....lazy I suppose, make assumptions and say they KNOW something. NO, you don't know anything and this thread has proven that point if nothing else.

Yes I am correct Abby...that is the point. There is NO room for "talking", that time has passed and gone. We are at the tipping point...whites are a 50% the population...do we KEEP our culture and our country or do we LET the Hispanics have it all? In ONE generation the Hispanic population doubles...to 200 million. They WILL be the absolute majority and they WILL get what THEY want...and that isn't what you and I want. America will be ruled by people who came from 3rd world sh!tholes...and that IS what they'll turn it into. Go to the border towns...see what they are like...that IS America's future.

That's NOT who we are letting in...the intelligent white people go to the END of the line AFTER the 3rd world refugees...and Hispanics just walk in.

It's a REAL PROBLEM everywhere they live...it's them that create the problems.

Is the truth not "civil"? The TRUTH is the country is being overrun by Hispanics who ARE the majority below age 7, ARE the majority being born, ARE the majority starting school, ARE going to be THE majority within 30 years. Do you want "America" for your grandkids or "Mexico II"?

Well then...ALL illegals go home...ALL their anchor babies go home along with their kids too...STOP printing ANYTHING in Spanish stop having announcements in Spanish. NO Spanish in the schools except as a language course like when we were in school.

That is NOT the 99% of immigrants who are from 3rd world countries. Just like the black people you are familiar with are NOT the 99% of black people.



No it's not...it's the exact opposite. What we get now are the brown/black dregs...refugees. We don't get intelligent and skilled white Europeans.

WHITE immigrants made this country great...the brown ones were the equivalent to livestock. Do you give the FARMER or his cattle credit when a farm is successful? They may have worked hard...but it was doing what they were told by the white architects.

I use statistics to "judge" them...past performance DOES show future results. Blacks are the BOTTOM of the barrel in EVERY country in EVERY society in EVERY culture. Always...no exceptions...WHY would I expect great things from them? Have we EVER gotten truly great things from them? I want them GONE...I don't want to mock them...I'd prefer to never have to think about them again.

Those are WHITE PEOPLE Rockie...WHITE PEOPLE. What "fond memories" do you have of the black part of town? WE DON'T LET MANY WHITE PEOPLE IN ANY MORE. MOST immigrants are brown and black.

The minority majority is what will tear us apart.

I know what IS and WILL eventually destroy America...the Hispanic majority within 30 years. That is a FACT that has already began...they ARE the majority below age 7 and it rises every year.