Tired of bad greens
 

Having slow and bumpy greens on our Country Club courses has become the norm here. It is apparent that the superintendent is not concerned. It could be more than likely that many people don't know the difference and don't mind it. I played Evans Prairie and Bonifay this week with some guests I have and it was embarrassing. The greens were something like you would find at a muni with no budget. I know we have been in a drought and that has hampered green care but so has everyone else in middle Florida. Visited Disney with my quest as well and the greens were perfect. The fact is that our greens are not cared for in the same professional manner. Our greens need to be verticut and groomed regularly and they are not. Both of these pieces of equipment attach to the greens mowers quickly and are used regularly at well maintained golf courses. Just asking, Is anybody else tired of poor maintenance here ?

I agree. There is enough demand without maintaining them at the highest level. I also have experienced the embarrassment you talked about when a visitor has come. As bad as it is, it is still better than what it was last year. I think we have a good head greenskeeper, he just doesn't have enough of a budget.

The good news is that there are lots of courses in the general area that are maintained well. But take a look at Stonecrest for an example of what can happen when golf courses are no longer needed by the developer to sell homes.

Could not agree more. They are terrible and it has become the norm. No excuses. Certainly isn't for lack of funds. On the championship side it's not because of the amount of play. They are a complete embarrassment . The new superintendent came in with high accolades and high expectations. Looks like he took a one year sabbatical. There was one hole on the practice green at EP that had not been changed in 4 days. The super should be making rounds and asking opinions.

I would love to fix the greens for you. If enough people complain to the correct department, perhaps it might help.

I agree. I suspect the maintenance problems stem from inadequate budgets and or lack of skills.

Wonder if they would be interested in selling one of the Championship course to a private consortium and have the revenues go to them. Given the maker size I thing you would see quality back in 6 months without increasing cost to play. Let market demand drive cost to play. Just a thought .

Then they would sell it to a developer and they would build houses. Been there, done that.

you could easily lock in a stipulation that for a period of XX years the only utilization of property YY would be for the exclusive purpose of operating an 18/27 hole golf course. I am no attorney but have seen usage stipulations into property sales before. For me personally if I could pay the same rates and have a better conditioned course itg would be a no brainer.

The only way to change the situation in my humble opinion is by hurting them in the pocketbook.. I for one take every chance I have I give a one star rating on the courses in the villages. Trip Advisor is one example. There are numerous golf sites and places for recommendations and reviews I will and continue to. belittle the conditions of the courses here in the villages. I know some of the people that drink the Kool-Aid will not agree with me and the moderator will probably delete this post

The moderator works for the owner of this forum who is a private individual(s) and has no connection to The Villages, Inc.

I am a Kool-Aid drinker. Everybody knows that. BUT Not a soul forced you or me or anyone to move here. If the courses aren't up to snuff, find a private golf course/country club community. Then you have to pay for all the upgrades the folks who run the show who know not a thing about golf course maintenance decide on. AND you have to pay for food at the restaurant...THE ONLY one. Golf course grass isn't always greener on the other greens.

Think of Scotland. Play the course the way it lies, it isn't supposed to be easy.

O come, can't putt on the railroad tracks.:rant-rave:

Have you played any of the courses north of 466?

Poster based on the number of post shown for you, you appear new to TV. The topic you address has been repeated ad nauseam for the 11 years I have lived here, along with dog poop, round abouts, bad restaurants, lousy health care and bad auto/cart drivers, rude people, .............................................

Conditions
 

Think of Scotland. Play the course the way it lies, it isn't supposed to be easy.

I suppose that means it is desirable to have poorly maintained greens. It increases the difficulty of the game.

Wow; here we go again. Some of you privileged/entitled think these PUBLIC courses should look like Augusta. Go ahead and drive your personal vehicles to play courses outside the bubble.

Y'all squall like this is a dog poop post. Waaaaaaa.

Are you saying that because these are not Private courses, the condition of the greens don't matter. There are many many public courses in the are that have great greens., That is all the OP was saying. It doesn't matter if the OP posted 1 or 5000 postings, he made an accurate assessment of greens on TV courses.

I played Roosevelt the other day and the greens were in very good condition. Silver Lake also had very nice greens. While there are clearly some courses (both execs and championship) that have some issues, there are also courses in very good shape. Seek out the courses in better condition.

:agree::agree::agree::bigbow::bigbow::bigbow::bigb ow::thumbup::thumbup::BigApplause::BigApplause::Bi gApplause:

:BigApplause:


:agree:


I don't expect the courses here to match upscale resort courses, but I would expect them to be substantially above the average municipal...and they aren't. :ohdear:

Folks, it's that time of year. This occurs every year. In a couple of weeks the greens will be fine. Then in August they will rework them. By mid September things will be great so keep cool. For those who blame The Villages, keep playing off campus, better tee-times for us dummies !!!!!!

From what I've seen, cane garden was the only champ course not to overseed the greens last winter and have the best greens in the villages right now. Looks like cane is verticutting and grooming the right way. Best I've seen cane in a long time!

Tierra Del Sol used to be one of my favorite courses. Not now. Played there Wednesday and the greens are horrible. Black dead spots everywhere, and bumpier than heck. I'm afraid they're in trouble of losing them. It's off my play list.

What about morning work on the bunkers???? Very sad

There is a significant problem here with golf course maintenance. There are enough courses and revenue to hire the very best groundskeeper in the world. Think about things like last year when Palmer had to close for 2 months because they lost the greens. How much revenue did they lose?

Maintaining a golf course is more about turf knowledge and doing the right things at the right time. Budgets do matter, but knowledge is more important. You can go outside the bubble and play a dozen courses and it is very apparent where the good groundskeepers are. Here we could hire the very best and have them oversee all golf course maintenance. But instead they outsource it to the lowest bidder. And unless we all demand a better solution, it will not change.

I agree about being embarrassed to bring friends here for golf. And it doesn't have to be that way.

Did we get a new Operations Manager not too long ago. Maybe he lacks the experience he claimed he had when interviewing. I heard that happen before. These messages are noted by the Developer, it's monitored here.

:beer3::agree::agree::clap2::clap2:

And how my I ask would you do that?

What makes you think that verticutting is the answer?

Verticutting is a procedure that is usually done once or twice a year depending on the amount of thatch in the greens..

While I agree, the courses in TV are in less than desirable condition, I would be reluctant to talk specifically about what procedures are needed to improve them as that is not my area of expertise.

My feeing is that the problem stems from the fact that the maintenance is contracted out rather than having our own in-house GCSAA superintendents on staff.

When work like this is contracted out, the goal of the contractor is usually to maximize profits by doing the job with as little output as necessary.

I would also like to see the rates reduced to the extreme in the summer months. It makes not sense to not be taking in some money. These golf courses are empty for the most part. I would lower the rates until I saw that we had a group going off every nine minutes from 7:00 until 4:00 pm.

It also seems to me that we have an awful lot of staff in the shops. It's always amazing to me that I walk into a shop and there are two or three people standing behind the counter doing nothing, but waiting for someone to show up.

What I don't understand is that The Villages does everything so well except for golf course maintenance. The flowers in the common areas, the cleanliness, and maintenance of the rec centers and pools and everything else are pretty much first class. The golf course, IMHO range from mediocre to deplorable.

Again, I have to wonder if this is because the golf course maintenance is contracted out while everything is done in house.

Hope the golf powers are reading this- I don't think that golf course maintenance and low bidder contracts are compatible. Good post "Doc"

Played Belle Glade and Hacienda this week. Hacienda greens were a treat; Belle Glade greens were a trick. How can there be such a big difference?

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

All these comments, both good and bad, should be directed to Country Club Administration: Golf The Villages
Or even call.
Posting on here and hoping that someone is reading the posts...is wasted effort.

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I am always amazed how one discussion about greens can go in so many directions.

BTW,, the Villages contract out the maintenance of the flowers in the common areas, the pool maintenance etc. Most likely to the lowest bidder.

I do no understand the point about the golf shops. When I check in, I am glad there are more then one person available. I guess I leave the staffing to the people in charge. It is like going to a restaurant, you my see lots of staff during slow times, but not enough when crowd comes in, again I allow the management to do the job. I for one think the shops are run GREAT!!!

Your point about rates is interesting in the summer. I do not know what the break even cost is for courses. Conditions can not be compared because of the number of rounds the villages do. It is like trying to compare apples and oranges. But most people on here don't want to hear that.

The point is if you do not like the conditions don't play. It is that simple!

Excellent point
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:BigApplause::BigApplause::BigApplause::bigbow::bi gbow::bigbow:

My point was that I would love to fix the greens but the people reading these posts do not fix the greens. Voice your concerns to someone who can fix the problem, otherwise it is just complaining.

Who do we complain to?

I agree with an earlier post. Some greens are great, some are ok, and some a pitiful (Tierra del sol, Belle Glade). I think the original point is there should be some accountability by the villages organizations, greenskeeper, etc.

Played Belle Glade last night-twilight-Calusa. Greens are unplayable, at least if you are trying to play golf. Fairways and Tees, acceptable.

see post #31