Can we at least agree on this...
 

Including elimination of ACA mandate in Senate tax reform proposals intention is to help implode the ACA, which will ultimately give the wealthy their tax cut. Are we concerned at all what the result will be on our fellow Americans that REALLY need healthcare. Are we REALLY that heartless?

Au Contairie

"the individual mandate is an arbitrary, pointless and painful tax on the poor. it doesn't even assist the ACA's goal of helping people with pre-existing conditions get insurance

The mandate inflates the cost of insurance products. It creates exemptions so vast that only 5% of the taxpayers are subject to it. and this tax hits people when they are at their most vulnerable after losing a job

Without the mandate the cost of supporting those with pre-existing conditions would be spread more evenly and broadly including those with employer-sponsored plans.

The individual mandate is not essential to ACA coverage expansion. it serves only to accentuate the laws inequities."

Christ Pope , Senor fellow Manhattan Institute

Personal Best Regards:

Another version of "oh honey I'm so disappointed in you. "...

Notice the liberal use of the royal "we".

If you feel that strongly..."adopt them"...pay for their treatments...charity...the way it's SUPPOSED to work!

I feel that only those who are deserving should get help. A bum, a criminal...WHY should "we" keep them alive? So they can steal/take some more? The poor...we support their entire lives providing housing, food, phones, TV, EVERYTHING...so WHY would I spend a $ million to give them a "lifesaving" operation? So I can KEEP paying for everything in their lives???

It's insanity. We give and give to them and get nothing but aggravation in return.

When you speak of "THEM", who do you refer to ?

The poor ? ALL OF THEM.....no matter how they struggle and try, or just the ones YOU choose ?

YOU help who YOU decide to help...I help who I decide to help. IF they "struggle and try"...they deserve help. If they don't, if they sit home and party all day...they DON'T deserve help and "we" should NOT be FORCED to give them up to $60,000 a year in benefits.

We spend all this money on trying to get the poor out of poverty...it doesn't work because we've made welfare too generous...they don't want to leave it.

Let me add...the poor are coming from all over the world to live in America...for free...no more struggling, plenty of food...a TV! 100 million "American's" are either a born out of country immigrant themselves or their children. 1/3 of the American population is "new"...they themselves arriving here or their child. And MOST are Hispanics! They ARE breeding us out!

Although you won’t get many well thought out answers on this forum your question is legitimate. The bill effectively takes money away from the “healthcare system” so one of two things must happen; total healthcare delivery will decrease or cost will be redistributed elsewhere. I’m fairly sure most of the posters on this forum have their healthcare covered primarily by taxpayers or future taxpayers and argue it is their just due. The problem is still cost and our elected leadership dares not take it on for fair of losing election contributions and support.

The destiny of health care costs are already cast within the ACA.
The budget office presented more than once the upward spiral of health care costs that would be triggered 3-5 years years after passage (now!).

The low premiums in the beginning did not cover those with pre existing conditions....did not cover all the children to age 24...and certainly did not take into account the ongoing subsidies that would be increasing...or that the young would pay for the old concept would fail.....to name a few.

It was forecast that as incidence/cost rates increased due to the addition of the above that eventually providers would raise premiums and cost to account for the significantly increased financial burden.

That was all brushed aside....like good old Nancy (deer in the headlights) Pelosi proposed let's pass it and then we can find out what is in it. The goal/agenda was achieved. THE BILL WAS PASSED!

But as is usually the case with politicians and those who support them or the agenda, that is all forgotten.

Now the budget forecast is in fact vigorously coming to pass. And what do we get. More budget jargon, driven by identity politics and partisan parroting BS.

Not one iota of discussion that addresses the causes....the real causes....that would take setting identity politics and party first aside. That is just not going to happen with the Pelosi/Shummer/McCain/McConnel past their prime old leaches.....the crem' de le crem of the establishment.....
and the BS distractions they generate.
None of which take into account the needs of we the people......who are just too stupid and accept what ever crumbs are tossed in their direction.

The die was and is cast. Nobody is addressing the real issue(s).

One can infer from your opening declaration you make that your position on this matter that yours is the only well thought out response and hence the only correct answer

I posted earlier and let me repeat the mandate is a tax penalty, primarily on the poor and those without employment and that fact was adjudicated by the Supreme Court.

As an example more than 34,000 families in Maine paid $15 million to the government for the high privilege of not buying Obamacare. Repeal would essentially be a tax relief for low income families

By the way CBO has a lousy record of prediction because Obamacare enrollment is 60% below its estimate and one indicator that Obamacare is in need of reform.

Actually Obama and Company intentionally design the ACA to fail so they could come back with a single payer plan ( another thread for another time). Essentially killing the individual mandate can serve the cause for both tax and healthcare reform

I wish politicians from both parties would stop the fear-mongering politicking. And, let's give get the rich a rest. The rich will always be rich and noting Washington does is going to change that. Further getting the rich doesn't put a penny more in your pocket.

Personal Best Regards:

My Thanksgiving wish wasn't answered. You didn't choke to death on a turkey bone.

I’m very familiar with Maine and know for a fact unharnessed healthcare costs have contributed greatly to loss of manufacturing, although it was not the only cause. The 15 million you quote amounts to squat when you consider what the cost of healthcare has done to the state. Say what you want but ACA did nothing to increase healthcare cost but shifted costs around and made healthcare available to more people. I made have missed it but what is your suggestion to address healthcare’s spiraling cost besides “let them eat cake”.

F@cking liberal douches...disagree with their bullsh!t...and they want you dead.

You're such nice and tolerant people.

Listen to this.

A lecture from an obscene, hate filled, weak minded poster in words that manifest his true being.

Who doesn't this person hate and why is he even allowed in a forum in The Villages ?

Sandy was not the only person wishing, and trust me they are not all liberals...they cover all parties.

You are unanimously detested.

Detested or not, wishing someone dead is despicable.

Hmmm....interesting.

Reading your hate filled posts about anyone not white makes his post to you very tame, almost civic minded.

I don't recall ever making hateful posts about non whites. You must have me confused with someone else.

I apologize profusely.

I made an assumption I never should have.

I thought for sure it had to be Baldwin.

Please accept my apologies. No way is anyone on a par with Baldwin.

I am sincerely sorry.

I still believe his "wishes" for blacks make the post in question trivial.

Hateful? ALL I do is tell you the truth about them. Can you HATE dogs and cats?

Yes...few here are on par...you're still delusional believing the propaganda.

SHOW me ANY EQUALITY between the black PEOPLE as a group and white people as a group.

Bravo! ! !

If you're so goddamn compassionate, you write the check!

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...2-laws-249802/

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first again people ought to stop with the scare mongering.

"Again removing the individual mandate can serve to meld the cause of tax and healthcare reform.

Again Obamacare under delivered CBO predictions were wrong and Obamacare is 60% below its enrollment target

The mandate translated into a tax between $695 ans $13,380 imposed on 6.5 million American households

While ACA provided coverage to individuals with pre-existing conditions it did so by yielding plans that are well above the needs of most consumers. The average
premium was $5,712 in 2016

a recently released study by the Manhattan Institute demonstrates that the ACA's mandate is superfluous to the the ACA's core guarantee of affordable coverage for individuals with pre-exiting conditions

the ACA deliberately carved out the healthiest upper middle class out of the exchange risk pools by giving adults under 26 the right to claim coverage under their parents employer-sponsored plans. so much for shared responsibility.

Of the 18 million people enrolled in the individual mandate , only two million are estimated to have pre-existing conditions.

Repeal of the individual mandate would allow the bulk of them to choose soon to be deregulated insurance at half the cost of the ACA complaint plans "

Chris Pope, senior Fellow Mnhattan Institute

In my view health insurance providers ought to be able to market across state lines. they ought to be able to market products that fit people's needs.

for those individuals truly destitute shared risk pools should be established and shared in proportion of an insurance companies health insurance population.
Also medicaid subsidies ought to be block granted out to individual states to be used as they situations deem vis a vis being held by the fed.

Personal Best Regards;

You wrote a very lengthy reply but did not answer my simple question. We are either going to reduce the amount of healthcare that is currently being delivered now or we are going to change where the money comes from to pay for it. You speak of risk pools and tailoring insurance policies to allow people to buy coverage they need. That sounds good but does not change the amount of healthcare needed or being used in this country. You have to limit care or come up with money to pay for it regardless of what the Manhattan Institute said.

Good luck on getting a direct answer.

Bravo! Femo-Fascists and their two-faced politicians are soooo compassionate with OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY.

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First, need I remind you that Obamacare didn't succeed, in fact it failed miserably in gaining healthcare coverage for its target group. All Obamacare did was increase the cost of health insurance for everyone else.

And need I remind you again it was an intentional failure because all Obama wanted to do was start with Obamacare and as a means to implement a single payer plan.

You make light of risk pools but that is how substandard risk are covered in auto, commercial and personal lines of insurance. You make light of interstate marketing but that provides more opportunity for reasonable pricing and hence more affordable insurance with policies that meet people's needs You make light of medicaid block grants to states but they are more effective reduce fraud and abuse and assist in meeting the objective.

You may know healthcare but your reaction to the aforementioned seems to indicate that you know little about insurance. But then, that was the problem with Obamacare and we are all feeling the intentional consequence of "a policy that had to be passed before we knew what was in it".

Actually all Obama had to do was focus on the so called uninsured and provide a risk pool to meet their needs but again his intention wasn't about healthcare it was about more control and healthcare covers 1/6 of our economy

You also confuse this topic (insurance) with actual healthcare. Healthcare will improve with growing technology and the changing paradigms being constructed by healthcare providers thus increasing case loads at reduced costs. Actually this area should be where government needs to focus vis a vis stealing more money from taxpayers for their lame ideas.

Based on your comments I am left with the impression that you favor a single payer system. I can't think of a better manner in which to control peoples lives than have nanny government decide every facet of a citizens life. Government picks winners and losers and their choices always seem to favor the political class and the 1% of the 1% and with terrible results.

Why is it progressives are always more generous with other people's money but not their own?

I have answered your questions, but essentially we are never going to agree because we are on different ideological and philosophical levels.

Personal Best Regards:

But that's their JOB...stealing money from the taxpayers! That's the part you don't get. Their MAIN job is stealing. They "govern" as a means to steal. Most of what the government spends every year goes to the wealthy via the corporations they own/run...through contracts and welfare. Welfare alone provides them with over $1 trillion each year.

Well didn't you pay attention to the Democrats mantra. "Its your patriotic duty to pay taxes and pay and pay and pay and pay and pay and pay..................

Personal Best Regards:

Artful dodger, you wouldn't know or acknowledge a direct answer if your life depended on it.:)

Personal Best Regards:

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It's not called Femo-Fascism for nothing...

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https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...-101-a-248942/

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We both know you are now playing the Trump game...accuse them of what you do.

You asked a day or so for examples of Trump lies...I gave you just a short list and you ran, as you will from here.

I don't think The View is on Saturday, so you will need to watch reruns to get caught up on your "news"

You are so divorced from reality, it is scary

I ask you a question on almost every response...you have NEVER responded, and you are so devoid of the world happenings and hung up on the past...

Do you know what the deficit is ? Really ?

I have been preaching and preaching...I thought the democrats were devious and just spending, but the GOP, which used to stand for something has outdone them with this bill.

You refuse to accept what almost every economist is saying about this bill, and how much American citizens oppose it.

This bill is an exact opposite of what my ex Party preached for so long.

Obamacare is a huge Type 2 screwing. What are you going to do about Type 2 screwing?


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Well there are at least two EX conservative republicans on this forum. Anyone with children and grandchildren that supports this so called jobs bill should wear dark glasses so they don’t have to look these kids in the eye. You have picked poorly elevated Trump to hero status.

You HAD to vote for a D or an R...you just HAD to...because THEY told you..."ours is the ONLY viable candidate". You're ALL stupid fools. YOU make a candidate viable by VOTING for him!

The spending will go on...it'll double. I've been telling you it'll double under Trump. Since before the election.