How the Senate tax bill affects rich and poor, in three charts
 

the charts represent general examples which often do not translate into actual tax consequences for individuals.

also the CBO notorious for being wrong with their predictions.

Also a number of senators are demanding "triggers' be added to the tax bill so that if prediction prove wrong and the tax cuts re-configured. This is not a good idea because corporation look for certainty when planning and to say 5 years down the road corporate taxes are going back up won't wash

Personal Best Regards:

The National Tax Journal in 1988 concluded that short-run projections from the CBO do not contain bias. A 2000 report comparing the forecasting of the CBO and the Federal Reserve Board concluded that, "The most accurate forecasting is done by the CBO, with the Fed a close second." On average, between 1982 and 2014, the CBO overestimated two-year revenue forecasts by 1.1 percent and six-year projections by about 5.3 percent.*politifact*

What has been its track record?

Although there’s no comprehensive measure on the hundreds of cost estimates on bills it does every year, the CBO’s analyses and forecasting are regarded as good or better than others doing similar work.

It’s true that on economic forecasting, the CBO in recent years has been overly optimistic about growth while underestimating the rate of job creation, but so was almost every other private forecaster. And economists say that the CBO’s economic projections generally compare favorably against other outfits, and its long-term budget estimates have been fairly accurate.

“While no individual or organization can perfectly predict the future, the CBO has a long history of providing credible and impartial estimates based on the center of a range of likely outcomes,” said Maya MacGuineas, president of the nonpartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. “CBO is our nation’s fiscal referee and should be respected even if you do not like the call.”*LATIMES*

The Joint Committee on Taxation, the group scoring this senate tax bill, and showing despite what they say will increase the deficit by ONE TRILLION...

That Committee is a group the GOP has wanted to score..it is not the CBO...it is the absolute favorite of the Republicans. For about 40 years they push this group

I am in favor of the tax cuts!

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You support lying and deceit....of course you do.

You would support ANYTHING Trump wants...hmmm

I usually love discussing tax bills, because I always learn from others since this is a weak spot for me, but having you post such deep well thought posts as you just did upis simply breathtaking.

Are you a full time troll or just part time ?

No, I just support tax cuts.
My healthcare has increased from $750 A month to $1350 A month. I am a 54 year old with no health issues. The money I save in taxes will help me cover my healthcare costs.
Tax increases have done nothing towards getting people off handouts...I am tired of the handouts that are just holding people back in life. Work or starve!

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Tax cuts will do nothing but raise the deficit. The money will still be spent. There will be no recovery because the country has passed the minority majority milestone. There's nobody to spur growth...half the country collects government benefits. How do you expect growth when half the country doesn't produce?

I see your point as demonstrated, but still have hope for responsible spending. The deficit needs to be addressed by cutting handouts to the people that have not been motivated enough to support themselves, not by increasing taxes paid by those that have worked to make the money. Work or starve...

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What about the KIDS...what are you going to do about them? Throw children into the streets? Starve them? We spent over a $ trillion each year on welfare...we CAN'T keep doing it. We need to sterilize them. Stop THEM from breeding.

Yet this is the tax "reform" bill the "conservatives" give us.

I was not addressing the children, but I also feel starving children might motivate the majority of the lazy. If someone else is feeding your children, your not concerned about providing for them, and your not concerned about how many mouths you can feed.

I don't agree with your sterilization suggestion. That has been offered to the poor for years from the liberals (free birth control, free abortion) and it has done nothing toward reducing the number of people below the poverty level. The poor don't care because they have no worries.

This country has helped nobody with the handouts, they just keep holding people back in life...we have 3rd generations living in public housing, none of them was motivated enough to support themselves. The CULTURE has to be changed, it should not be looked upon as anything other than a failure.

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It's the kids who qualify for welfare...all welfare "reform" did was move the eligibility from the mother to the kids.

The poor...the minorities WILL destroy this country...THEY are breeding...WE are NOT. They've gone from 10% of the population in the early 1960s to 51 % today...THAT is what is dragging America down. In 30 years they WILL BE 80% of the population...at those numbers...America CAN'T recover.

We have 3rd generations of 3rd world blacks and Hispanics...lets get it straight. Why? They are a different species and they are incapable of success in a modern civilization. You can't replace a dog with a cat and expect it'll learn tricks as well. You can't replace a modern human with an archaic human and expect they will prosper in modern society.

GO into the minority slums and you will SEE just how DIFFERENT they are. Go into a black school and SEE what a waste of money it is trying to educate them like real humans are educated. Asians do well in school, whites do well in school. The blacks and Hispanics do NOT...not the 99% anyway.

Their "culture" needs to be destroyed and NOT embraced or encouraged. Listen to the rap lyrics...listen to their speeches...they HATE us...they BLAME us for ALL their problems...they KNOW they can never be us...never BEAT us...so they are breeding us out...at our expense...so one day THEY are the "boss". America WILL BE a Mexico II in 30 years. America is going to suck as it becomes a larger and larger minority majority. You arrogant bastards killed us.

"The tax bill Senate Republicans are championing would give large tax cuts to the rich while raising taxes on American families earning $10,000 to $75,000 over the next decade, according to a report released Thursday by the Joint Committee on Taxation, Congress’s official nonpartisan analysts."

Senate tax bill would cut taxes of wealthy and increase taxes on families earning less than $75,000 by 2027 - The Washington Post

Everyone with the ability to analyze and reason knows that this partisan tax bill is a Republican gift to the wealthy and corporations so that they will increase campaign contributions to the GOP candidates, with little regard for the middle or lower class Americans or the good of the country. CEOs have already said that they will take the windfall from this tax cut and pay shareholders in dividends, and buy back stock in order to raise the stock price and thus their executive compensation. Middle class wage increases and more employment will not happen.

To my good Republican middle class friends, you're being sold a bill of goods that will not produce. Don't be fooled by the Trickle Down nonsense again! This bill is not about economic growth. It's about winning elections.

I enjoy getting paid dividends, I bought stocks with the hope that they would be worth more as time passes...

What investment do you have with your "tax the talented hard working smart people" AND "give to the not so talented lazy idiots"?

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Well duh! Who do you think the politicians work for? If Hillary had won...the money would have been spent...but on DIFFERENT industries...the ones who supported HER party.

My long held principles of "conservatism" which meant lowering the deficit, controlling spending, less government intrusion, and high moral values have been trampled by this GOP.

It is ALL about winning elections instead of the country and that is sad as hell.

Define "rich"...
I know I paid more tax with Obamma plan and I am going to pay less tax with Trump plan.

Why should I be punished to pay more tax than someone else? Should I tell poor people; I am sorry I am more talented, I am sorry I make better financial decisions, I am sorry I worked harder, I am sorry I had some luck along the way???

How should I feel the additional taxes I paid under Obamma were spent? Is there less poor people? Is there less deficit?? Is my healthcare affordable when it goes from $750 a month to $1350???

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I hope you will not mind me asking you a few questions.

First, you mentioned the increase in your insurance in another post.

Since I am old and had the "luxury" of employer funded health insurance all my working life, did you have that or did you pay through Obama care or ACA since its inception ?

If you did, why would you not support working within the framework of ACA to attack the cost instead of repeal and start over ?

Just curious...everyone is for tax cuts but this is a very irresponsible bill in my opinion and we are being lied to about what it will or will not do. But, it probably will pass, because despite the ramifications, these folks need to pass something.

I agree with some of your posts on entitlement spending, but not based on the Presidents emotional tweets and statements. I believe he wants a "cultural war" in this country and I see no good coming from that...it sure will not bother him at all.

In any case, just curious

Well no sense answering any of the questions I posed...instead ask me questions.

Well I had the "luxury" of paying for my healthcare as owner/ self employed. Of course you would have no idea of cost increases brought by Obammacare, you are not involved in that side of your policy. You are a mushroom being kept in the dark, but the sun might shine all of a sudden one day when your former employer can't afford to provide it any longer. You just won't have any warning. Think Enron, Arthur Anderson, Canwest, A&P, and other companies gone in a blink of an eye...no healthcare for the former employees.

My policy is thru United Health and has been in effect for over 27 years. I have not switched to Obammacare as there was no improvement in rates, just changes to providers and term.

Your last paragraph is ironic. The only way to end entitlement spending will be a cultural war. The CULTURE must be changed. It should not be acceptable to have numerous children with no source of income other than money that was taken from someone else's pocket (someone that works hard, someone that makes sacrifices and assumes risk, someone that is more motivated, stronger, and smarter). Shame should be attached to asking for handouts!

Don't waste your breath about people needing short term help. That is the responsibility of family not government. When the government gets involved, 3 generations later they are still holding their hands out.

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Well, first good luck.

I pray that what you want, and obviously our President, i.e. A cultural war dies not occur.

We will be no better than countries we make fun of, and so weak as a nation we will be subject to anyone.

Solving problems within our United States government is the only way. We seem to skip over comprehensive immigration to the extreme....we skip over comprehensive health care reform to the extreme.

As I said, I am not young anymore and that sucks except when I see where we are going....black fighting white....immigrants fighting those born here.....haves fighting have nots. Sounds like Venezuela.

We are and have been wasting opportunities, in our current case I still think...no I am sure we are being conned by a very good con artist who does not give a hoot about you in anyway.

Extremism never solves problems.

Thanks for your reply, and I will spare you personal crap, but understand much much more than you think. I have found that hate never solves anything.

YES! Away from "minority culture" and back to hard work is good...white culture.

So...when will you elect someone other than a D or R? That's the ONLY way massive welfare ends. The CORPORATIONS profit immensely from the generous welfare system. Money to the poor...passes right through into the pockets of the corporations.

THREE GENERATIONS??? More like 30 generations. Blacks have ALWAYS had their hands out. They've NEVER been successful as a people...anywhere...at ANY time.

We ARE...already...no better than the countries we make fun of. We're already 51% minorities and 30% 3rd world. We CAN'T keep growing the numbers of the poor minorities and expect everything to stay the same. We CAN'T have more than half the country collecting benefits and hope to prosper. America is dying.

Immigration is being used to breed us out...and healthcare to bankrupt us...a squeeze play against white people who suffer the consequences.

You're being conned by a whole system that/who lives off your labor. Government takes from you...your labor...and gives the benefits to the wealthy owners. We work until June to pay the government its "share"...the government gets almost HALF. And that money goes to the corporations and their owners.

Sure it does...ONLY "extremism" SOLVES problems...compromise doesn't...it put it off.

Huh?

Give an example of the country WE make fun of...

Nobody can legislate this countries problems away. That has been tried over and over, people are sick and tired of the BS.

I am not interested in fighting races, immigrants, or "have nots". I am interested in ending all entitlements that hold people back in life. I don't want to punish anyone, I want to motivate them. This hand out crap does not work.

I agree a lot of people were conned by Obamma. He promised much, and delivered crappy Obammacare, fueled the racial divide, protected political friends (Clintons)and did nothing to thwart the potential outside influence of elections. He certainly did not give a hoot about me.

Unlimited empathy never solves problems either.

Thanks for sparing me the personal crap. If you think I hate a certain group of people, you understand little about me.


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What are you going to do with the 50 million people who DO depend on the government for EVERYTHING right now?

It's the CHILDREN who qualify for benefits...we're NOT going to throw children into the streets...even when 90% of them are minorities. We're NOT going to let children starve. Right now, kids can get breakfast and lunch for free at school...are we going to cut them off?

HOPING AGAINST IT FOR SURE, BUT.....


"As Venezuelan bulls go, Vice President Tareck El Aissami is hard to beat. Who else could announce that the travel and leisure industry in the hemisphere’s most deranged economy was on a roll? “Our country was dependent on oil for many years, but now has come the time of tourism for economic development," El Aissami said at a trade fair on Margarita Island last week. "Tourism has become the first engine of economic development in our country.”

Nothing unusual from the Bolivarian Republic, where hype and fake news are as plenteous as empty cash machines."

Venezuela Welcomes All Tourists Crazy Enough to Go There - Bloomberg

"Former Oil Minister Eulogio del Pino and Nestor Martinez, ex-president of state oil company PDVSA, were arrested just four days after being removed by Maduro in a surprise cabinet shake-up. Both are accused of embezzling state funds, conspiracy and money laundering among other charges, Tarek William Saab, who took over as chief prosecutor following the ousting of one of Maduro’s top critics, said at a press conference in Caracas."

Venezuela arrests top oil officials in corruption probe - The Washington Post

Dont pay any attention to the ? Marks in my post...

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Written TWO DAYS AGO

"America, the Banana Republic

"When people call Donald Trump an authoritarian, it almost gives him more credit than he deserves.

You don’t think favorably of authoritarians; they are despicable. But you do think of them as monstrously large, grievously terrifying, as somehow taking the measure of the polity they control and drawing on its stature to puff themselves up, even as they destroy their nation’s moral core. Despots like Mussolini and Hitler epitomized evil on the grandest possible scale. To call them clowns would trivialize the unconscionable horrors they inflicted.

Trump is certainly an authoritarian, but he is more of a tinhorn dictator, a tiny, negligible man who, rather than inflating himself with the nation’s grandeur, has managed to deflate the nation with his own insipidness. Thanks to him, America is now a banana republic. It is no longer a country of soaring ideas and idealism, a beacon to the world, an example of freedom at home and a protector of freedom abroad, an anchor of sanity in a world often bouncing on the waves of madness."

America the Banana Republic

Obama's BAIL OUT added 800 Billion to debt and the GOP, including me and most of those old time posters on here supporting Trump, were apoplectic.

GOP tax bill adds ONE TRILLION, and no concern.

I don't begrudge investors a reasonable dividend. I like getting them myself in my 401K. But don't you think some of record profits of corporations in the American economy should be passed on to the workers in the middle class in the form of higher wages?

Despite Falling Unemployment, U.S. Wages Stay Stagnant : NPR

Do you really believe that only investors are "smart people" and American workers are "lazy idiots?"

The Treasury Secretary, AND the President, for quite some time told the country that and this is a quote from Steven Mnuchin, the Treasury secretary "over 100 people in Treasury are “working around the clock on running scenarios for us.”

Well, ANOTHER BOLD FACE LIE TO THE COUNTRY.

It appears that crucial piece of selling this tax bill was never even asked for.

Ahead of Vote, Promised Treasury Analysis of Tax Bill Proves Elusive - The New York Times

I ask again, how do you know when your President is telling us the truth.

Obama added over $1 trillion every YEAR rocky...what are you talking about?

I spoke of ONE single bill..ONE bill.

You were not here at the time, but the Trump lovers on here now were simply beside themselves over that ONE bill.

You need to learn how to read, OR BETTER YET, leave this forum. You don't live here...you are an intruder.

Just go...you are a plague here. Go to wherever you live..you are not welcome in this forum.

Sure seems like you have a problem with dividends being paid and stock prices going up...hard to believe you have a 401k with stock investments.


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I was not speaking of American workers when I mentioned "lazy Idiots"...I was talking about people that are too lazy and stupid to get off entitlements.



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Minorities who make up 90% of welfare recipients.

GO down to the welfare office if you don't believe me...see who's there collecting. Hispanics...blacks...and a few fat whites with black kids.

What entitlements? Like Social Security, Medicare, Federal government and military pensions, CHIPS health insurance for children? Or are you excluding those?

Well I am speaking about American workers when I say that a large portion of that windfall tax gain under first Reagan and then GW Bush should have gone to the wages of American workers instead of most of it going to executive pay and share buy backs. If so, then American wages wouldn't have been stagnant for the past 30 years.