Venting about Sumter Grand
 

The true test of a facility is not when everything is running smoothly. The true test is when there is an issue that needs solving. Sumter Grand is failing the test. They erroneously took $4,662 from my 85 year old widowed mother's checking account (causing her to overdraw it) 8 days ago and I can't get them to return it. They acknowledged they made a mistake, but fixing it? That is not happening. All they do is make excuses and stall. Okay, mistakes happen, I get it. But they should FIX IT! Not give us the run around. Who can afford something like that? And now the Exec Dir won't even return my calls. Not a very caring attitude for their clientele. Beware!

I used to run assisted livings, and I know Sumter Grand is independent. However, call the corporate office. Ask for the Regional Director and if that does not work, ask for the VP of Operations. You will have a call from the ED and your check refunded. Promptly.

Did that. They have an automated answering system and I left a message. No response. I'm so frustrated.

Call Adult Protective Services and report financial exploitation of a resident if no one responds on Monday. Let them deal with it.

Also go into the building and ask who the Ombudsman is, they are an advocate for complaints of residents. I am not 100% sure if they go into Independent Living but the will let you know. The Ombudsman number will be either posted in Sumter Grand or Sumter Place.

When my mother went into an assisted living home they wanted to handle all of her finances and bank accounts.........no thank you, i'll handle that myself....

There are 2 sides to every story...I'd love to hear theirs as well as your tone when you voiced the mistake. As for the money isn't your mothers account protected from theft??? If not....why not??? Why haven't you mentioned calling the bank with a stop payment????

If they did as you say...then it will be resolved properly. On the other hand if a person goes off the deep end in their complaining then all bets are off.

Another vote for the Ombudsman. There should be a sign hanging in the lobby or near the activities board; wherever the required postings are. And it is a required posting. They do go into independent living facilities. Ombudsman is a state sponsored third party volunteer advocate and they get results. The facilities do not want to get crosswise with the state. I sympathize with the urgency of this issue and can imagine your frustration.

Try Seniors Againest Crime here in The Villages to see if they've gotten other complaints.

How exactly should the tone sound over a $4662 mistake? Like Mr. Rogers or Mr. Green Jeans? Or the Grinch? What would your tone sound like?

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OP is looking for advice, from those who have knowledge in this field. You are a little harsh for a new poster. Or maybe you have some insight to this matter on a personal note

Would you consider 8 days enough time to resolve that properly? I would consider it reprehensible.

You can't stop payment on a withdrawal. And the bank isn't going to insure you against an entity that has automatic withdrawal approval.

You're making a lot of assumptions in your reply. Yours is the tone that sounds pretty bad.

:bigbow: Amen. OP, so sorry this happened to you. I hope you get a resolution very soon. Even if you do, please report this to the Florida Attorney General’s Office. You can do this online, and it could result in helping others and curtailing unethical practices like this. I hope your mother is doing well.

Those that have the money don't like to release it. Years ago I paid the full balance of a Visa Card bill with a check. The bank erroneously withdrew 10 times that amount. It didn't overdraw the account, but when we went to the bank with the cancelled check in hand they said it would take two to three weeks to put the money back. Wrong! We pointed out that since they withdrew it instantly, they could put it back instantly, which they did. With that we closed the account.

It is interesting that babks/credit card companies insist on instant payments and yet take forever to correct mistakes if they are not in their favor.

It is the golden rule. He who has the gold, makes the rules.

I was not nasty to them. I was polite and respectful. And they admitted they made a mistake when they withdrew it through ACH after my mom had cancelled all ACH payments. Mom wrote a check, which they deposited Monday, then on Friday, they withdrew it a second time through an ACH. So, nothing to stop payment on. The bank said Sumter Grand had to refund it to her, there was nothing they could do. My issue isn't with the error, my issue is with them not immediately refunding it! They acknowledge its an error, so they should fix it. Not stall for 10 days and counting. That's not "resolved properly"! Pay her back - that's a lot of money! Just saying.
And I did go to Seniors vs Crime. Sumter Grand isn't calling them back either!

So true!

If she cancelled all ACH payments, why can't the bank take the money back? They are not allowed to remove money from your bank account without permission.

That was quite harsh. Apparently Sumter Grand admitted to their mistake. That’s an odd amount of money to be withdrawn. But there are always 3 sides to every story.

The bank said they couldn't (most likely wouldn't) correct the error. Pass-the-buck-type situation, I guess. But it's really Sumter Grand's error and needs to be addressed by them immediately.

Since tomorrow is a business/banking day, I hope to hear of the resolution on this Forum.

You can submit a complaint to the Federal Government at consumerfinance.gov, and they and will take action against the bank. They have no right to tell you that they cannot take the money back if you did not authorize an ACH transfer. The bank is strictly regulated by the Government and they do not want any complaints. I would tell the bank that you are filing a complaint, and they may change their tune.

I feel your pain Doglover. Many years ago the Social Security Adm. erroneously removed money from my deceased father’s checking acct. without my knowledge. I was executor of his estate, sole beneficiary and had poa over all matters. It was one hell of a fight with them to return the money. They had admitted they made a mistake but it took many phone calls and a couple of visits to the SSA office plus a letter to my Congessional representative, who just happened to be the Chair of the Ways and Means Committee in Washington ( that’s where The SSA and other govt agencies get their funding), to get the money 18 months later! Then I only got half because they gave other half to my half brother who was excluded from Dad’s will. I had a very good income so the amount of money owed me wasn’t the issue. Several months after all this I get a letter from the SSA saying I owed them that money back as I had cashed the check twice. Another trip to the SSA office where I met a clerk who didn’t know s—-t and rudely indicated I didn’t read the form correctly and I pay the amount owed them immediately. I wasn’t so nice back to her and a supervisor invited me back behind the bulletproof glass to work out the matter. I demanded they show me the two checks I had supposedly endorsed. She found I was correct there was only one check to me but I still had to submit handwriting samples because there had been Congressional inquiry in the case a few months back. In the end I was right. Here is the last kicker. I got a 1099 as the money was reported as income for me to the IRS. THE END! I pray that your issues will be resolved quickly. I wish both you and your Mom well.

Don’t think Freedom Pointe/Brookdale is any better. I’ve been dealing with a similar issue (contract that they decided not to honor), been dealing with the ‘tip person in charge’ for over a year ago and he won’t answer anymore emails. If it wasn’t so hard to move mom due to memory issues, I would’ve moved her a long time ago! I thought I put her in the ‘best place’ but obviously not. And she is not receiving the care she’s paying for. Disgusting the way they treat the residents.

Ohiobuckeye
 

DOGLOVER, I take it you're an American citizen. I've only been retired for 11 yrs. & being a tax payer & paying my bills myself, we all know whether it's the local govt. all the way to the federal govt. they don't care if you live on a fixed income of $150. a month & 85 yrs. old they would put you out in the street for your last nickel. Nothing is based on your income from like me, 11 yrs. ago. TV isn't any different, if you live here you'll pay what we say, NO breaks, NO feeling sorry for you. TV is just as hard hearted as the Federal govt. I really feel sorry for your 85 yr. old mother. It's a shame the Govt's. can't adjust for the elderly that can barely make ends meet. Truly sorry to hear that this great place could take advantage of your mother & other elderly people. Personally I'm looking for a place back in Ohio, only because we want to get closer to grandchildren. I'll miss TV but not all the cons we've found out about. Again sorry about your mother!

My question is. What kind of CARE is your mother going to receive now??? I wouldn’t be nieve to think everything will be “hunky dory” after this.

Exactly!!!!

Perhaps someone is hiding something else here ? This withdrawal may have been made by a corrupt employee who no longer is employed and the powers that be do not wish to draw negative attention to their business.

Sumter Grande consists of independent living high-rental apartments. As such it doesn't offer "care" per se. I toured it once and I think that The Villages amenity fees, Comcast, and two meals per day are among the items included in the rent.

Call the Florida Ombudsman at 888.831.0404
This is the state run program to assist Seniors to keep their rights. Being financially finagled is not one of her rights.
You can also file a complaint online at:
Ltcopinformer@elderaffairs.org

Thanks to all my fellow Villagers for all the kind support and suggestions. And my heart goes out to JC and John for their horrible SSA issue. Ours seems minor compared to their nightmare.

But I wanted to give an update: All my whining all over the internet got results! The Regional Director from their home office in Bonita Springs called me last night (yes, Sunday night!) to say a check would be overnighted to her today. And it actually was hand delivered to her today around noon! So take heart fellow internet posters - this does work. Or maybe Seniors vs Crime worked. Or FB, or BBB. IDK, but my mom is happy, and so I'm happy. And for a little chuckle, now they are emailing me to get me to retract. LOL. And sigh, I will.

Sumter Grand is an Awesome and Safe Independent Living Community! Unfortunately human mistakes happen to other humans! I’m sorry to hear someone had to wait longer than a few days for a refund!! I hope they were and are still getting the lifestyle they paid for and deserve. As we know, life is not perfect.. I would still recommend Sumter Grand over any Senior Community in The Villages!

Beautiful news. Just do the retraction with the same speed they refunded your $$ MONEY $$. Just Saying.

So happy this was resolved and sorry for the stress you endured during this ordeal. Very good news.

:agree:

I am not surprised the check was hand delivered today. People who read on TOTV I am sure shared this story at Sumter Grande which is the right thing to do. Remember, ACHA, Ombudsman, Seniors Against Crime, all those words get attention because no administrator or company wants an investigation or a finding that is public. Not that you should need to go that route, but when calls are not returned and the communication stops, call the regulatory bodies. You will get a result on a Sunday night, as I think I mentioned earlier...

I sent an email to the National Director over the weekend to read this forum.

I doubt it had any bearing, but we all need to try to help each other.

Good for you Gracie, I am sure that is where the alert came in. Believe me, the competition right now is huge in The Villages for all levels of care and no corporate office wants this thread lingering and negative feedback in front of the public. While every company will tell you care is their number 1 priority, having worked for corporate five star assisted living, I know their secrets. Not that they shouldn't make profit, of course they should. But they should also pay decent wages and benefits (because happy staff make happy caregivers and teams), and increase the food, transportation and entertainment budgets for the residents, and be fair in their levels of care. When that happy marketing person gives you your tour and sells you the greatest care and living experience ever, remember to look beyond the chandelier, which is what I tell everyone, and also remember you are a commission to that person. I know of one 90 year old woman who put a deposit at the new Elan, and yes she signed a contract a few months ago, but her neighbors who help her out tremendously encouraged her to stay in her home with their support. Elan, the new one, would not give her back her $2500 deposit and told her she could use it another time if she wants to move in. I found that incredulous as they are just opening and certainly its not like they could not rent open apartments during that time and would be losing business. It would have been a good will gesture as a new independent living community to refund this woman. If you care about elders, give a break to a 90 year old for heavens sakes and return her money. If they had been full occupancy I would understand as they would have turned someone away, but they are not full. It's shameful. I never refused giving back a deposit when I was an Executive Director, never. Contract or no contract.