My thoughts and prayers go out to Santa Fe High School.
 

I cannot imagine how awful it is to learn your precious child or family member has been killed.

I know all of us feel so sad and troubled at this latest news of a mass killing.

The words we have are inadequate to attempt to comfort. There are no easy answers. Many wish we could dial back time when these shootings didn't happen.

God help them. God help us.

Shooter is only 17.

How in the world...

Enough. Time for results. No more talking. Action. Adults take charge. Wake up!

What will work to get results immediately?

Deleted my rant

I will bet dollars to donuts he was over medicated on some crap. Probably stayed in all day playing video games.
How would a 17 year old know about pipe bombs and pressure cookers? BC he is spending all day searching for that nonsense on google and watching porn in a dark room and talking to losers online.

Rush to Judgment
 

Folks, it is much too early to rush to judgement about the killer or his motives. Since he was taken alive (to my chagrin) we will probably learn a lot more about his derangement.

What I found refreshing in this case was that every Texas official who spoke on television said virtually the same thing. They agreed that it is imperative that the schools become "hardened targets" that prevent shooters from walking onto the campus.

This school had two armed guards, but they couldn't prevent some killing because they could not anticipate the source. And, one of the officers was shot in the engagement.

Texas officials are proposing closed campuses where everyone enters through a screening checkpoint, and armed guards (or police) at every school. In my view this is the correct approach.

There was no call for "more gun laws."

There are over 100,000 schools in the USA. Anyone care to guess the cost to "harden" each and every one? Sounds good until the tax bill comes due. Guess who will pay?


You could harden every school in America at a cost of billions or trillions. Then the psychopaths will just attack other soft spots like bus stops, malls etc.

I agree. It's a free country and I like it that way. These things just cannot be prevented in a free country.

They should try to get an international dialog within thousands of local communities between lawyers, librarians, physicians, psychiatrists, social workers, nurses, victims/survivors, victim-witness assistance providers, students, teachers, CEOs, movie directors, Hollywood studio execs, 2nd Amendment historians/scholars and many many others to address what can be done about curbing this kind of violence on a practical level.

And TOTVers can do this too. What is going on in the community you moved here from that will stop school violence? Curbing cyber and in person bullying is one step; as is more teaching about mental illness; gun control by parents, friends and/or other relatives; lawsuits against gun manufacturers and others; education about practical materials available for survivor/victims of crimes in libraries, law enforcement websites, apps and other resources. Just approach this problem from every conceivable angle and ignore party politics as much as possible. Strengthening community bonds is also critical. On a very local level.

I know quite well some of the grandparents of one of these very recent shootings. They never recover from this kind of loss.

Right.. a dialogue between 100s of disparate groups with their particular agendas, that will solve it.

Just raise your kids right and they won't end up slaughtering their friends at school.

Absolutely correct. And do we harden and have armed guards at every place of worship? Every nursing home? Every movie theater? Every hospital? Every other "soft" target? Folks, that's just not going to work.

And is that the kind of world you really want to live in? That doesn't sound like freedom to me.

The future
 

Well, you must admit that designating schools as "gun free zones" has not gotten the job done.

Your solution would be..........?

Simple hardening would not be as expensive as you contemplate. It could be simply locking all exterior doors of the school building, with alarm devices on the doors and closed circuit television on the doors. CCTV is commonplace in schools now. The doors already have locks on them.

The responsibility for hardening each school lies with the local school district. In Hillsborough County (Tampa) our high schools have had on duty law enforcement officers (School Resource Deputies) for decades. The Sheriff's Office is in the process of expanding this program to include middle and elementary schools with contracted security officers who have Florida certification as Law Enforcement Officers.

Like it or not, this is the future of school security. We will get accustomed to it, just as we got accustomed to long lines and taking off our shoes at airport security checkpoints.

So........?
 

And your solution would be................?

How about start with a metal detector at entrances, like every US post office has.

I think if we were trying to keep "the bad guys out" this is a start.

However, every shooter has been an inside job, in other words the shooters have been students. Typically students have more free access than visitors, who are required to enter through the front door and sign in and get a badge.

Each of the shooter students were already inside the building, ready and armed. This mean logically each and every day all incoming people would have to pass through one metal dector entrance. This will add time to a normal student day. Time well spent I might add.

I currently work in a juvenile detention center where I have students in my classroom that commit violent crimes...they truly think differently than we do.

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Let's invent a time machine so we can let our founding fathers see what 21st. century weapons are like. And then we'll be able to ask them, without having to speculate, what they intended the 2nd. amendment to do.

It seemed to be about well regulated militias which would have been state or smaller entity created forces that had arms to defend against other countries or maybe even states' well regulated militias. You would not find a cannon in homesteaders hands though.

So the Supreme Court got it wrong?

Facts.
 

Well, you might think so, but you would be wrong. Let's look at some examples.

Columbine (Colorado) - The shooters were students, but they didn't show up at school until lunch time. A single point of entry with metal detectors and armed guards should have stopped them.

Sandy Hook (Connecticut) - Former student. The shooter had attended the school six years prior, but had since attended other schools, and was being home schooled when he did this shooting. At the school he was confronted by a locked door, but shot his way through an adjacent glass pane. No armed guards to stop him.

Parkland (Florida) - Former student, showed up at end of school day. Went in as others were about to come out. Armed police officer on scene failed to do his duty.

Access control means everyone from the Principal to the janitor, and all of the students. With access control and metal detectors there wouldn't be students "already inside the building, ready and armed."

That's me.
 

I have been a member of both the Organized Militia and the Unorganized Militia of Florida.

The 2017 Florida Statutes

Title XVII
MILITARY AFFAIRS AND RELATED MATTERS
Chapter 250
MILITARY AFFAIRS

250.02 Militia.—
(1) The militia consists of all able-bodied citizens of this state and all other able-bodied persons who have declared their intention to become citizens.
(2) The organized militia is composed of the National Guard and any other organized military forces that are authorized by law.
(3) The unorganized militia is composed of all persons who are subject to military duty but who are not members of units of the organized militia.
(4) Only persons exempt from military duty by the terms of federal law are exempt from military duty in this state.

Incidentally, it is argued that at the time the Second Amendment was written, "well regulated" meant "well equipped."

I agree. All but Sandy Hook could pass as students... whether or not they were in school or came late or left early and returned, they were still age appropriate as students...Sent from my SM-N920R4 using Tapatalk

Hearing crickets.......
 

A flippant answer when you have nothing practical to suggest.

You are absolutely correct, if only the FF's could see us now I have faith in their intelligence that they would have worded it such...so that we don't have the all but uncontrolled gun society that now exists.

Especially given that the FF's had no clue as to the size our STANDING military would become (we no longer depend on 'militia's')...and the weapons now available.

The problem started back in 1886 (and subsequent decisions)...when the Supreme Court got it wrong.

Presser v. Illinois - Wikipedia

They ignored the "well regulated militia" part and solely concentrated on the "shall not be infringed."

Sadly, a number of other decisions have done the exact same thing.

I don't believe there is a single answer, and admittedly it is a complex decision, but I feel strongly that the answer isn't...MORE guns. :oops:

And to even start a discussion, will take the NRA to quit trying to support firearm manufacturers by constantly screeching and trying to scare everyone by falsely stating...'THEY'RE trying to take all of your guns away.' :ohdear:

The high school where I served as vice principal had three buildings on one campus to which students would traverse for various classes throughout the day. Each multi-floored building had several entry/exit points with eight class periods daily. During lunch breaks, students were allowed to leave the cafeteria and go out to the central courtyard which eased the crowding in the lunchroom and decreased the occurrence of problematic behavioral issues. I'm pretty sure that other schools have a similar setup making your proposal quite difficult to enact.

Someone in a position of power up the food chain please take the bull by the horns and do something different. Just make progress. Don't talk about it too long do something. The entire population wants something to be done. These poor families.

Amen. Peace out...

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Well equipped with cannon probably as the use of cannon was a real equalizer for many of the battles at this time. Cavalry too. And then along came the repeating rifle. Benjamin Tyler Henry - Wikipedia

It looks like pretty much anyone is a member of the unorganized militia but probably very few Villagers.

As I understand it the student-shooter was 17, too young to purchase a gun in Texas.

Apparently, he stole the guns, I believe from his father. His prior behavior shows him to be a psycho.

I have not followed this closely as it is so appalling and disheartening... again.

These school shootings gotta be stopped somehow!

A little bit of good news...on such a tragic situation.


J.J. Watt to pay for funerals for Santa Fe shooting victims


:bigbow:

:coolsmiley:

Big surprise. :ohdear:


NOT that it is an excuse for his horrendous actions...but it does need to be acknowledged.


Santa Fe High School student claims students and coaches '''emotionally bullied''' suspected shooter


And sadly...some never outgrow it.

How did all those adults miss the symbolism of that trench coat?

The public school where I taught considered implementing a dress code.

There were some parents who shouted it down, saying it interfered with their child's freedom of expression.

The admin gave up easily, did not want to rock the boat full of all those silly, clueless, suburban parents.

The routine, the words, the lack of ever doing anything to even address this will continue is my bet.

This is not an easy problem to solve, but we keep hearing how smart, intelligent, all knowing every candidate is, you would think that maybe one of them would actually "show" us those attributes in action.

Just might help the country to stop attacking our own and pay attention to helping

I would love to think that something would happen, but my bet is that after a short period of lip-service outrage by certain elected officials, the real money will take over behind the scenes...and it will be buried & forgotten AGAIN! :mad:

THAT IS TRUE, plus add that nobody seems to want to do the "work" required when you get elected.

It is not supposed to be an "easy job".

The need to have party majorities is a testament to that fact. Listening, talking and compromise is gone. Our elected want to "pontificate"

Which countries are you suggesting should be included?

High School guidance counselors are there to keep an eye on the children. The average caseload is 500 students to 1 counselor. The paperwork not the heart to heart talk takes up most of their time. I think we need more specialists who are skilled in sorting out the maladjusted and seeing how they could helped. Maybe a 24 hour HS hotline where an anonymous conversation with someone who knows their friend needs help can be developed. Maybe every student has to be a big brother and has to be a big sister until it becomes just part of being in school.

Some kids are attracted to terrorist websites just to belong to some group that is paying attention. I don't know what is being advertised on the internet that the kids are reading.

I have worked with kids that are bullied. You may think the bullied would take positive action and go after the bully like Tyson did when he got tougher. But I have seen more often then not the bullied individual is frequently much larger in their senior year and the payback takes place with the freshman. So the cycle repeats itself.

Other students saying the shooter was mercilessly bullied by peers and some faculty including coaches.
This, of course, doesn't make it OK but some people snap after a while.
What do we do about sad, alienated, bullied kids?

Yep. :(

Some are already included and have been for a long time.

I do not necessarily support the idea, BUT WHY IN THE WORLD would any countries be EXcluded ?

Children are children....all over the world.

Killing anyone is killing....all over the world

And away we go...not putting words in your mouth, but who would you EXCLUDE and reasons (not opinions) for excluding them ?