Failing Storm Sewers
 

My career as a civil engineer and being in charge many projects
containing storm sewer systems tells me something the failures should not be happening and we haven't been given the rest of the story. We still today have storm sewer systems working just fine with many more than 50 years old. I can only conclude that storm sewers less than 20 years old , many only installed just a few years ago has to be either faulty material or contractors doing inferior work. So now who is paying the huge bill to make necessary corrections, folks, it is you and I. The funds will be tax moneys from the coffers of Sumter County.

Substandard materials and substandard workmanship on the storm sewers just like the roads here; BV, 446, 466a - all the main roads - are really starting to loose that 1" top layer of asphalt and the repair asphalt that is being put in those areas doesn't appear to be much better.

This is the time of year of heavy rain and possible sinkholes. We aren't in Kansas anymore. The ground under us is sand and limestone. It drops, pipes break.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...flooded+street

OP, I agree with you the storm sewers in The Villages are not that old and the failures make you wonder about the quality of construction. Here in Florida the soil makeup and amount of annual rainfall could present special construction challenges that could warrant a revisit of construction specifications for storm sewers. I suspect we haven’t heard the last of this issue in The Villages.

Here is the Sumter County number for road repair;

Road & Bridge | Sumter County, FL - Official Website

What failures? Can someone provide a link to an article or something? Please remember some of us haven't yet purchased a home in TV and are using the ToTV forums to learn as much as we can before making that decision.

Keep in mind how the whole scam works.

In this state a developer can build infrastructure, have it appraised by those it put in place, get paid for it...then hand off the maintenance to the local entity (usually county).

Consequently, where is the incentive from the developer to ensure high quality in the infrastructure for the long term (versus finding the cheapest contractor to build it), when they've already been paid for them...and others are left to pay for any shoddy workmanship in the future?

Community development district - Wikipedia

Something as simple as leftover concrete from a primary job being used to make the pipes or concrete with to much water added or over the time limit can turn the strength of the concrete used to the strength of topsoil. I'm not stating that this happened but if the pipes are failing this is a possible area to look at. There probably is very little quality control to be certain that things are on the up and up.

Check out the Big Dig on Google. Very interesting for sure.

Sewer lines breaking is not a common happening here. AND I am shocked that anyone would use the word SCAM.

What storm sewers are failing ??

There was a break south of 466A last week and now we have panic.

I am so tired of pot stirring...everywhere...

If that's the one that was on Pinellas I thought they said that was a lightning strike ?

That was Hillsborough.

The one south was a lightning strike and the one in the online news was broken during a cleaning. Sumter county is putting up residents at a hotel while being repaired. Is it in Winifred?

Oh it's not just Pinellas. Ask the folks in Winifred.
"Village of Winifred residents are being put up at a local hotel during the disruption of their lives while work takes place on their street. Rainey Construction on Thursday began the repair work on a stormwater drain pipe that failed and caused two large holes and a sunken area in a resident’s front yard. "

At some point, people will realize that some things being called "an act of nature" (sinkhole) were actually due to shoddy construction. The "act of nature" claim releases them from liability.

I agree 100%. I expressed my opinion to the FDOT (Florida Highways) about the condition of the nearly new 301 improvement between Oxford and Wild Wood. In my career, I also supervised miles of resurfacing using a asphalt mixture. In my 38 years of active working, this has to be the worse resurfacing project I have ever seen. If I had supervised a project this bad, I would have been fired. If you travel this section of highway. make sure your seat belt is fastened.

Have you been away or what. We now have Villagers being lodged at a local motel (paid by Sumter County) while their front yards are being excavated.

Read post 14.

Winifred is not new by any means and the sewer system installation was done by the county. It broke its being fixed and the people are being put up at the County’s expense. Stuff happen

So it's different than the other CDD's and wasn't built by the developer...then sold?

Link/proof?

Things do happen, but it is repairable and nobody was hurt.

A very notable difference with the "underground" throughout TV is that the base is little more than compacted sand. Brought in by the truckload to establish a specified level.

And we all know what happens to sand....yes even compacted sand when exposed to ANY flow rate of water.

In my humble opinion.

Let's get your post corrected. The county does not install the original storm sewers. How can a storm sewer be fixed when it is being fixed ?? Also and important, It it being done at the County's expense, but the "County" is YOU !! It is your tax money !!

Good Source
 

I understand the water pipes broke and nothing was done quickly so the water leaked and set up a "sink hole" which they are now trying to fix. As you can see it was able to spread to a few attached property possibly because of the delay?. There was a similar problem in Winifred and they tackled it right away and it did not cause a sink hole. It goes to show if a problem is not handled promptly it can lead to bigger problems . Of course another question is "why 2 water breaks within the same Village in such a short time"?:ho:

Stuff happens, it's being taken care of that's all that matters.Don't know where you lived but we had quite a few water main breaks on LI & NY City. At least the people are being put up regardless of whose paying for it!
FYI if it's a 6" main 800 GPM flow , 8" 1600 GPM flow at minimum of 50 PSI so it doesn't take long for a mess to be made. Probably a minimum of 1/2 hr. for someone to come out and then shut the main down. So think of how much water flowed before it was shut down.

You seem to be totally confused.

First you said the county built it...which isn't true.

Then you talk about water mains (water pressure)...when this issue is simply a storm drain.

There are already some articles you can find with a Google search, that explains what happened and the timeline...if you want to get up to speed and understand the facts.

As for who's paying for it, our taxes are paying for what was built by the developer (then sold)...that has obviously failed decades prematurely.

I, for one...don't think that's OK.

I can't recall seeing any sand being brought in here. A lot of us get a kick out of watching the construction of big areas.

I don't think it is because the developer didn't do it right or Rainey either.

I don't think this is a huge issue. I think it is summer and the rains came. And there is substrata that shifts and collapses.

Yes, yes and yes!!

So what's your solution?

1. Contract with a nationally recognized engineering firm that is not beholden to the county or developer...to investigate the mode of failure.

2. If shoddy engineering/workmanship/materials is found to be the cause, take legal action against the entity that built it and make them pay for the repairs...not tax money.

3. Start internal inspections on other storm drain systems sharing the same characteristics...of the ones that have already failed.

infrastructure failing in a fairly new community--faulty construction---Morse Bridge, and now storm water sewers--a house near mine-- 3 owners and they haven't been able to get green full grass coverage--gotta be lousy top soil

I think it's amazing every time something happens it's the developers fault. He didn't build all the other areas in Florida where pipes are breaking. In this case storm drains. Ever watch the news and see all the breaks throughout Florida? The only thing in common is the soil in the ground. The news the other night showed the pictures of the road that's still closed since the pipes broke down by Orlando about a month ago said should be about 2 more weeks.

Here we know the age of the system we don't know the age of pipes in Orlando--

Karst Features and Hydrogeology in West-central Florida-A Field Perspective

Why Are There So Many Sinkholes in Florida? - The Atlantic

CHAPTER 11 STORM DRAINAGE
| 2017 Florida Building Code - Plumbing, Sixth Edition | ICC publicACCESS

Confused
 

I think it is being confused to believe the problem in question is sink holes in Florida. I hope most who have questions on this are now aware of the reasons. THE real question is why are the water supply pipes failing. In the case of Winifred there were two within the last about 2-3 months within in a few blocks of each other. One was dealt with immediately and it did not expand into a larger problem and the second had delayed attention and it turned into a sink hole allegedly because the water continued to drain within the open hole until the problem became a sink hole. I am not an engineer but never believed in coincidences. In a typical "City" you would have a charter, an organization controlled by statutes and laws for the purport of protecting citizens of the city. Another view is that in the case of Condo's they are under Florida Statue 718 which is MUCH more strict than the statues governing The Villages. As I have said a number of times we love the Villages but are not blind to the loopholes for the Developer and Contractors.:popcorn:

All things here in The Villages are built to code. The areas in and around us and under us are prone to collapse and will take drain pipes occasionally.


What would the motivation be for a builder with an excellent reputation to put in substandard drainpipes? It seems the Morses and the Raineys have long term goals for this area and will be building well into the future. They have made more money than their families could spend for generations. They still work. Is it because of greed? Or perhaps to continue to build an excellent place unlike any other on this earth? To continue to keep employed the thousands of people whose livelihoods rest on this business effort? Perhaps because there is a huge market for baby boomers with ten thousand retiring each day for the next fourteen years? Why would such smart people do something underhanded when they could build to code????


I am so tired of the Morse bashing. I think it is motivated by jealousy and misinformation and other ugly stuff.

The subject was storm sewers not water mains.

The one on the south side was a water main. Two post originally were tied together. Besides how much water from ALL the storm drains drain into the big pipe that failed? The storm drain pipe handles many storm drains. Having worked in the trenches for a good many years you'd be surprised what's down there and how easy the soil and the crushed stone sand base disappears. One little leak can create quite a crater under ground and then all of a sudden you have a break & collapse.

Are you suggesting that the building codes are different here than in Leesburg? Can you support that and define the 'loop holes'. Also, Community Development Districts are defined by Florida Chapter 190 law. If you have ever attended a meeting, you see Chapter 190 in force.

GG - your head will feel better when you stop banging it against the wall. Ever hear the saying "Haters are gonna hate?" From the URBAN DICTIONARY:


Haters Gonna Hate
A colloquial saying. It means that people who don't like you will always find a reason to dislike you, no matter how stupid that reason may be.
:ho: