Where did our real wealth go?
 

A very sobering piece. Be sure to read both pages.

http://pajamasmedia.com/victordavish...eal-wealth-go/

Thanks Donna for a great link......two qoutes stand out to me and validate my own thinking....

"Modern Western society is in some sense becoming drone-like, its entitled sensitive citizens assuming ceremonial roles and attitudes about the very landscape they inherited from their industrious predecessors."

AND

"PS. Why am I not too optimistic right now? Our President, who submitted the largest deficits in recent memory, and who is on track to nearly double the national debt in record time, continues to blame Bush — not just for Bush’s lamentable deficits, but for Obama’s own new unsustainable ones. I think his weird logic is: “Bush’s bad deficits made me trump them by a factor of four.” When the Commander-in-Chief expects the populace to believe that, or drops real unemployment figures and talks instead of theoretical jobs saved, or flip-flops on everything from evil Wall Street bankers now suddenly good, or bad nuclear power now vital, then we have about as much hope as we would have under Jimmy Carter."


Thanks again Donna...makes no difference what party is involved....we, as the voters, better wake up quickly. The road we are on right now is not the correct one.

I agree. The current situation has been predicted for a long time by many brilliant people; and is best summarized at
http://15yearsleft.com
At some point must decide on what one is going to spend one's energy, attention, and effort, so as not to be blindsided, instead of just talking about, or pointing out, the problem; the urgency is much greater than most people imagine.

Your Welcome
 

I sometimes enjoy reading the comments at the end of a good read. Number 12 & 13 are especially good.

confused
 

Did I miss something Freeda? What I got was a podcast infomercial for Mark Yarnell with no real information? Maybe I clicked on the wrong thing...

+ 1 I waited for info and there was no alternate link.

Donna, thanks for the informative read. I resurrected an old post that I believe supplements the information in the article, fills in some blanks and qualifies some "whys". As time marches on, the points in the post become more self evident. I do not believe the deficit crisis is a product of a "clueless", inexperienced administration. To the contrary I believe it is a cold, calculated and diabolically sinister assault on freedom, democracy and the American way of life by ideologues in the White House.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...ad.php?t=25952

deficit panel
 

President Obama has named the leaders of his deficit panel:

http://www.newsobserver.com/business...ry/342530.html

http://people.forbes.com/profile/erskine-b-bowles/23669

http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010...deficit-again/

How's this hope and changey working out??????

Watch what this panel does. Can you say VAT? It will sting every single American, Obama will support it and blame breaking his promise not to raise taxes on Bush.

And in the legal jargon the politicians will talk and act as though
 

they did not raise taxes income taxes. To the letter of the law, maybe they are right.
To those of us on this side of it....they are just sticking it to we the people AGAIN.....that is why Obama WILL NOT win a second term.
That is why many more will not get re elected this November.

What happened to stopping the spending? How about something novel.....do not spend "one dime" more than comes in revenue!!!:1rotfl::1rotfl:

btk:rant-rave:

Geez...so far it is just a panel thing that Washington does all the time. Bush cut taxes and Obama cut taxes, in the stimulus bill but neither of them have cut spending. Bush had off the books funding for the wars, the popular socialist Medicare Prescription drug plan for seniors and TARP. Obama is still funding the wars and had the stimulus package.

They all spend like drunken sailors.

And I would say under the circumstances the Changey Hopey thing is going about as well as the old guy and the hockey mom would be doing.

Re: Where did our real wealth go?
 

Obama didn't cut taxes.

A tax cut is a reduction of tax rates. Bush cut tax rates. What BO gave was a very tiny tax credit which by the way gets credited back to your income this year so you have to pay taxes on your tax credit. Tricky isn’t it.

Yep, Bush spend like a drunken sailor. To keep it in perspective, BO is spending like 500 drunken sailors.

Well Bush didn't cut my taxes because I don't make enough money for his crowd. Credit or cut you get something off your taxes.

What do you mean "his crowd"?

Incorrect. Read again. With a cut your income tax rate goes down period.

Obama gave a very small (and I mean very small) tax credit that you basically have to pay back the next year. Big difference.

More food for thought. This was the Bush tax CUT

27% rate goes to 25%
30% rate goes to 28%
35% rate goes to 33%
38.6% rate goes to 35%
The existing 10% and 15% rates remain unchanged.

Sunset Rule: Without further action by Congress, rates will revert to 15%, 28%, 31%, 36%, and 39.6% after 2010. The 10% rate would disappear altogether.

That's what Obama is going to do, let the Bush tax CUTS expire. That means any low income folks such as yourself (self described) who may be in the 10% rate will go back up to 15%. That's a lot of low income families. Add on a VAT tax which is exactly what he aims to do, a lot of people are going to get the shaft. Not rich people... poor people.

You are absolutely right. Thank you for posting the figures. You will not hear it from the Lame Stream Media. ( except for Fox, of course)

Yep.

That will cost me about $200 a month out of my family budget.

Here's a revelation for you.

I'M THE MIDDLE CLASS NOT THE RICH!!!

PLEASE EXPLAIN....."his crowd"

Thanks

Pretty simple....there is no way anyone could describe that the Bush policies were directed at the middle class. I am middle class. The biggest tax cuts were on the highest earners. So that would be his crowd.

Just check out the credit card reform...it reformed more profit.

I don't get it. You saw the tax cut break down. Are you saying you weren't part of any of those tax brackets?

As I recall, these tax cuts mainly assisted married couples with children first...then investors, small business and high income....seems to me since investors and small business are VITAL to our economy that is fair....married couples can use all the breaks they can get......hey, we can discuss what it meant to high income....but the rates have been posted on this thread, and EVERYONE to some degree got a break !!!

WHY DONT YOU BELIEVE THEM ?????

Party line people. Don't believe nothing that does not come from the ONE'S mouth, I suppose.

Can someone point out where, in any speech or proposal, Obama has proposed a VAT?

I know there are a lot of 'think tanks' out there that would propose one - but I don't think the administration is on board.

I still think a flat tax is the better option.

where did our wealth go
 

According to a report just released by www.tax.com the answer is simple. The rich got it all.
Some thoughts and numbers from the report:
The top 400:Income way up taxes way,way,down.A new report on the richest 400 show their income rose an average of 81 million...in 1 year.
Last fall a census bureau study found that real median income fell from $52'500 to $50,303 between 2000-2008. Millions of these same people lost their health insurance and their jobs also.
So,most of the middle class Americans who flock to the tea party movement were the big losers between 2000-2008. So who were the winners? Newly released data show the top 400 made enormous gains(81 million in 1 year) and paid less taxes.
The bottom 90% saw their incomes rise 13% in 2009 dollars.The top 400 saw their incomes rise 399%
In a single year 2006-2007 the income for those 400 rose 31%. Their tax rate fell to 16.6%
During the Reagan years the tax rate for the wealthiest was 50% and just as importantly so was the capitol gains tax at 50%
The wealthy have been given every tax break imaginable.
To put it simply:They are not paying their share.

Our Tax system and our defense budgets are the 2 major reasons for our debt. Until we address both it does not matter who is in charge.

Rofl

Is this a satire? My gosh I wouldn't know where to begin to correct all those wrong statements.

No satire...just facts straight from the IRS study.

In the IRS we trust...

IRS tax study 2007...The top 1% of taxpayers averaged about $138,000,000.They paid a tax rate of 16.6%. Their secretaries paid a higher rate.
By 2010 the very rich will see their taxes fall by 5.7%Over the ten yeay period(2000-2010) the top 1% will recieve tax cuts totalling a half trillion dollars. Each tax break will average $340,000.
By 2010 52% of the total tax cuts will go to the richest 1% whose average income is 1.5 million.
Its no wonder that some reps are fighting to lower the estate tax. The estates are getting a lot bigger.

I certainly cannot argue anything when it comes to taxes, HOWEVER,if your above statements are true.......what happened to the extra tax that this administration is applying to those who make more than 250000 ?

How can the taxes be falling, as you say, but the President is saying the opposite ?

The audacity some people have to proclaim this person or that person isn't paying enough.

I don't believe YOU were the one that earned that money now were you? Liberals love to spend money as long as it comes from someone else's pocket.

That's one button people really push for me. What makes them think they are entitled to other people's earnings or to even advocate what or how much should be taken from them when they didn't earn it. Man-o-man, that's the height of arrogance and elitism to me.

The only thing more arrogant than a rich person who doesn't pay their fair share is another person who thinks they are truly entitled to some of it.

Of all the jobs I've had, I think every singe one was provided by the "evil rich." But don't listen to me, make sure those rich people pay and pay dearly. I'm sure the person down the street collecting welfare will hire me, provide health benefits, 401K and two weeks a year vacation.

Or maybe none of us will even have to worry about it any more. The government will take care of us all. Or maybe the rich will just sit on their money and not hire any new employees. Oh wait, aren't they doing that now? Well there's the solution, put it to them REALLY HARD and maybe they will start hiring again.

The top 1% earned 19 % of total income but paid 37% of total federal taxes.

The top 5% of total income in USA paid 57% of the federal taxes.


The bottom 50% of wage earners in USA paid 3% of the federal taxes.


So, tell me who is getting the shaft?

You asked where our wealth went and I told you. I can't help it if you don't like the answer. The wealthy in the USA up until 1984 had a tax rate of 50% and more importantly a capitol gains tax rate of 50%. Those rates are now 16.5% and 15%. That's alot of money the gov't does not have.
The other problem is our defense budget. It is totally out of control but no one seems to have the courage to challenge their budget. We spend more money on defense than the rest of the world combined.

You are so wrong: The decrease in the tax rate increasd the revenue.

This is from Stephen Moore from the Wall Street Journal:



"The 1997 tax reform, passed under President Clinton, reduced the capital gains tax rate from 28 percent to 20 percent, and taxable capital gains nearly doubled over the next three years. The 2003 reform brought the rate down to 15 percent, and between 2002 and 2005 there was a 154 percent increase in capital gains reported as income."

"This explosion in realized gains cannot be explained only by the rise in the stock market, which averaged just 13 percent annually between 2003 and 2005. Capital gains tax receipts also far outpaced the revenues that the government’s static models predicted. Between 2003 and 2007, actual tax receipts exceeded expectations by $207 billion."


So, when you lower the rates, people invest their money and tax receipts go up, not down. Capital gains is actually voluntary as investors can keep their money tied up in land or whatever.

I say it again, You are wrong!!!

Again, here are a few facts you can chew on:

2008 Budget: The three top expenditures

Defense- 635 Billion= 21%

Social Security- 617 Billion around 21%

Medicare, Medicaid and Chip- 599 Billion=20%


So, if you add up all the entitlements , it is around twice as much as the military. But don't worry, Obama is looking at ways to cut the entitlements. Do you think your retirement money is safe? Think again.

High Five's to dklassen and Donna2. You both nailed it.

and some facts for you to chew on..from the Congressional Research Service Report of Congress Jan.2003..."Past capital gains tax rate cuts have increased revenue for the first 2 calander yearsafter the cuts yet lose revenue thereafter. In addition the amount of tax revenue decreases as the capital gains are taxed at a lower rate. Finally a capital gains tax cut induces stock sales which causes downward pressure on stock prices.
We can both find studies that support our side,but if everyone got a tax cut,the estate tax was lowered and there was a cut in the capital gains tax the federal gov't has less money.In itself that's O.K. However if we are fighting 2 wars and have the 3 large entitlement programs with less money to pay for them that's where the money is going.Should we cut all 3 of the largest programs? What do you think would happen? Should we cancel the next set of tax cuts until we get out of this mess or at least until we leave Afghanistan and Iraq?

Donna2: If you hadn't quoted those numbers from the IRS about who's paying how much of the tax burden, I would have. It's the one place where I was thankful to Rush Limbaugh as he kept a link to those numbers - right to the IRS website - on his web site.

This is something that people don't seem to realize. ANY time ANY tax cut is proposed, it's going to 'go to the rich' because they are THE ONLY PEOPLE PAYING TAXES. It's hard to give a tax cut to someone not paying taxes.

As far as the capital gains tax rate goes, do people not remember the reason WHY it was cut? The reason was that we needed to encourage investment and savings. Saving a dollar and having it's earning taxed 50% cents was pathetic. Imagine putting $100 aside. A few years later, you have $120. First you'd have to pay $10 taxes on the $20, and the remaining $110 is now, due to inflation in the Carter years, worth less than $80. So putting aside your money COST you as opposed to spending it when you got it.

This is A Bad Thing.

A fact
 

It is still true that the government always ends up with less revenue when it raises taxes. Always has always will.

This being true why do Liberals always want to raise taxes?

Could it be that Liberals want to penalize Businesses and successful individuals for some reason.

Could it be that Liberals really don't believe that it is the businesses and the successful people who create jobs.