What about all the brick and mortar buildings?
 

Something to think about ..................I have been listening to the information about major high street stores that are going out of business; i.e. Sears on shaky ground and J.C.Penny on life support and more I cannot think of right now. What will our high streets look like when the brick and mortar stores are standing empty?

When I lived in the suburbs of Boston I used to love going into Boston on a Saturday to browse and shop at all the big department stores. My favorite was Fillene's Basement - I spent hours in there finding great bargains. After shopping we would walk through the North End and buy from the deli's and then stop and eat authentic Italian food at a small restaurant. At Christmas, a trip into Boston to see the lights and decorations in the downtown department stores was a necessity.

Downtown department stores have pretty much disappeared, replaced by suburban shopping malls, which in turn are falling prey to Amazon. But, what becomes of the empty buildings and the urban decay that follows?

I admit to being as much to blame as anyone because I LOVE Amazon, they made it so easy!!! This year I even found some European items which you can buy and have sent to you from Europe. Where does it end?

That's a tough one M.A. Do you think they will become Marijuana clinics? Times change.

I share your fond memories of the past for sure.

HOWEVER, someday we must recognize that the world is always changing, and always "shrinking". Technological advances are spearheading the changes and despite many attempts to change it, it "aint" going to happen.

Those who cannot see the changes and are inflexible will be those left behind. Sears was the "everything" store but that was before the Home Depot, Lowe's and Costco's were in existence.

This is a section of an interview with Thomas Friedman that pretty much touches on all that is happening.

"But my friend David Rothkopf, former under-secretary of commerce , says that most jobs are not being outsourced to India or China, they are being outsourced to the past. There's someone who was working as a counter employee for Southwest Airlines who probably doesn't have their job now, because I can go on my own computer and download my own boarding pass on to Southwest. So many more jobs are destroyed by Schumpeter [referring to economist Joseph Schumpeter's theory of creative destruction of companies brought by the march of capitalism] than are destroyed by India. They're destroyed by creative destruction and technological change. Thirty percent of Americans worked in agriculture in 1900. Where is that now? Somehow the economy has absorbed that, as long as you have an economy full of innovation. The other strategy has been tried; it's been tried in places like Germany. And look at all the problems they have, the chronic unemployment that they have, and the place is full of cushions, full of social welfare programs. But meanwhile, they have this chronic unemployment.

Globalization 3.0 Has Shrunk the World to Size Tiny | YaleGlobal Online

This interview took place about 15 years ago, but he nailed it.

I only need the following to stay open:
Autozone/CarQuest/NAPA/Advance Auto
Lowes/Home Depot
Bass Pro Shop
Dick's
Guitar Center
Military Exchanges

The empty buildings can be turned into giant server farms for E Commerce.

Filenes Basement, it was a bargain hunters paradise. It was the best!

Thank you for Tom Freidman ......... the earth is flat. Great writer and thinker.

I know, of course, that you are right. Have to move with the times, but the urban blight we leave behind is horrendous. In the late 80s we were sent to work in the UK and my otherhalf had to travel the length of the UK every week, I often went with him and saw the huge factories that had closed and were left to just crumble away. Hate to think that our high streets might come to that.

I too M.A. loved going into Boston for all the reasons you said but times do change. My son and wife now live part time in a loft in the leather district where Filene's Jordan's and Kakas all stored their furs! Many of the original interior features are still there. They have a giant thick metal door as the entrance to their loft. So many of those big old buildings are getting repurposed into housing, etc... it is fun now to walk around downtown Boston and see the mix of new and old that is going on, but never mind trying to drive in there now, it's brutal!
I'm an Amazon type person for sure now too.

We never drive in now. Great service on the buses now. We even take the bus out of Logan to NH or Concord. Cannot beat it. But in the old days it was an easy drive ........ but parking !!!!!

FYI, if Sears does not get funding by the end of the day (28 Dec 2018AD) they will go completely out of business. The problem is that too many people just order online without going in a store and seeing and handling the products. Stores hurt themselves also when they don't keep up their buildings and do not keep a variety of items in stock.

If I can find something in a store I will buy it there.

Locally elected officials in suburban governments need to be thinking ahead and pursuing ways to repurpose empty (and emptying) retail properties -- in many areas throughout the country.

(Remember that creepy scene in "Gone Girl." That might not be so far off in reality if we continue to ignore the future.)

There is a need in a lot of areas for independent senior housing, at reasonable cost. Not everyone in the aging population has the means, and/or the energy, to continue to support suburban homes with big yards. Also, a lot of seniors want to remain in the area where they have lived for years. Often aging women are left alone with too much responsibility for things they no longer need or want.

Malls would have space for not only 55 and up apartments, offering manageable independent living, but maybe a little grocery, and a doc--in-a-box, and perhaps a community garden.

Reality says pets would have to be allowed, though limited. But such housing would have to be protected from extra people moving in with seniors. (My guess is many seniors would find that such protection in place would be a big relief because saying "No" would be easy.)

A nice little pre-school on site would be a good addition.

Areas for socializing could be created easily. Those big old malls have a lot of space.

Just think of all the parking space, too. Oh my! Lines could be straddled and sideways pull-ins could go on forever and nobody would care. (I am sure the popular hobby of complaining would continue, but that would be OK, absolutely normal.)

Anyway, that is my "find a niche and fill it" thinking for this morning. Somebody's got to do something, sooner not later.

A nice little pre-school on site would be a good addition.

In a senior housing development?

My dissertation this morning had to do with repurposing empty, suburban, retail space into independent senior housing apartments. But there is a reason I mentally built a little pre-school there.

In the city I am from, there are some relatively high end continuum-of-care communities that have pre-schools on site. I think there is a psychology to it. (Do not worry. They do not make Grandma work there for free. In fact, I do not think there is much interaction, other than cute little programs the little kids put on sometimes.)

Now that I think about it, Dutchman, with total independent senior living that might not be a big deal. But it has proven to be a nice addition to the places that are classified as continuum-of-care.

But, hey, my post this morning was only my first draft. :)

I welcome any suggestions about what would be a good use of space in my mall repurposed into independent senior housing. Perhaps a disco?

Anyway, I just thought of something else. People who own REITs, which have been known for their nice dividends -- though I think taxes are different than regular dividends -- might own a piece of those empty malls.

Whatever, a plan needs to be in the works for all that empty, suburban space, before it is too late.

The best option is re-purposing the buildings. One example I'm aware of is in San Diego. Years ago, they built a bunch of new buildings in the Horton Plaza area including restaurants, stores, etc. But it went downhill. They are re-making the area into a tech hub so the buildings do not become vacant eyesores. I imagine the center of downtown Boston can do something similar. They are convenient to the T, Government Center, and Beacon Hill. I see many possibilities.

When we moved here we received a $250 gift card for Sears due to some damage one of their drivers did. Needed some TV's for our new home so we went to Sears in Leesburg, they had a TV department but no TV's so we bought them elsewhere. Now we needed a grill, went back to Leesburg, you guessed it, no grills other than 3 huge floor models but none in stock. Finally someone told us to go to Ocala, and there they had grills and I guess TV's but mostly they have clothes and craftsman stuff. It is pretty hard to spend $250 at Sears if you don't need tools or appliances. When we bought the grill I asked the salesman to get me a cover that would fit the model I purchased. I didn't put the grill together for about 6 weeks and the cover would not fit over it. Went back to Ocala and asked to exchange it, I was told no returns or exchanges after 30 days, I explained that the salesman gave me the wrong size, that didn't matter. I called Sears when I got home and they sent a new one to me free of charge so I will give them credit for that but their exchange policy is worthless. I'm surprised they lasted this long, you can't sell from empty shelves and poor customer service. Good news is there are plenty of retail jobs out there for those who will be looking. Sears used to have a great pension plan, I wonder if that still exists or if they changed it along the way.

They could turn all the buildings into storage facilities for Amazon. But really, it is sad to see empty buildings.

In the 60's and 70's malls began to pop up so the down-towns were affected. My once flourishing home-town in the midwest is so "depressed" now after their large companies of commerces (manufacturing etc) left---maybe to being swallowed up by larger entities OR work being out-sourced. The town in the 60's/70's appeared to be growing---until it wasn't. It's still the same size it was back in the mid- to late 60's. Many migrants and seniors now call it home. Younger people are leaving for larger communities. I think it's just an example of what's happening all over the country. Now, as others said---the internet is taking up slack for shopping. I like it (sometimes) as it's easy and convenient. I still like to go into a brick and mortar store though and see what's available. We all remember when Sears, Penneys, Dayton's and many others were flourishing companies. It's sad to watch their demise!

It may not be retail, it may be medical, it may be Tech. It may be even a municipal building or a jail. It will be what people want and or need at the time.

I often wonder, what about all of the empty church buildings? Church attendance continues to drop, (not here) but up North.

In the demise of the malls up north many of the cities and towns have begun to rehab their main streets and fill them with small businesses and shops. They schedule activities like a winter stroll and car shows and art and craft shows in the summer to draw people there. They have taken the mill buildings and turned them into luxury apartments or filled them with craft shops and restaurants. This seems to be working quite well. I think wherever a void is created clever people find a way to fill it. I am sure someone will find use for the empty malls or tear them down and make something new.

This comment of yours is what we actually did this past holiday season. My otherhalf needed some new chinos and a pair of dress pants. We went into Belk's to shop ..... it was just awful, it used to be a nice clean easy place to find some good clothing, this time it was just like a Church jumble sale. Racks and racks of sales clothes, nothing was correctly sized. So he found one pair of pants that he liked and in his size, tried them on, went home and ordered them on line. We would have liked to shop in the actual store, but had to resort to the internet.

There is a town in Massachusetts, a suburb of Boston, called Andover where Phillips Academy is situated. Due to the Academy it attracts a lot of people. This town used to be an old Mill Town during the industrial years and the old mill buildings were standing empty and starting to look sad. Due to excellent town management they have now been renovated into beautiful condos. The high street thrives and is always packed with people. It is also a town that takes care of its elderly providing low income housing and buses.

It is one of the prettiest towns, plus it has the added advantage of being close to two major highways. This is an example that other towns could follow.

One has to wonder what the real reason(s) are behind the increasing bankruptcy occurances of, once upon a time, very successful businesses.

Bankruptcy can be a financial strategy to the benefit of owners/shareholders/etc.

There is no more mystery to what is required of a business to remain competitive today than 25 or more years ago.
Some times management/owners are incapable of anticipating threats to longevity.
Other time some just do not want to do so and milk the business for personal gain until they go under.

Classic? A&P in business for 156 years....then shut er down in 2015. Makes no sense other than that was the strategy.

All depends upon the direction dictated by the ownership......OR NOT!

Most of the stores are in malls now. Go to almost any medium size city of town's downtown area in this country and you'll see empty buildings and offices where retail once was. Stores moved into malls and left decimated Main Streets across the country. The question should be what's going to happen to all these malls with the advent of internet shopping.

Amazon has made going out to shop obsolete and more and more people will be shopping online. I haven't been out Christmas shopping in twenty years except for a few small last minute items. You can get better prices and free shipping with almost everything if you know what you're doing. Food shopping is going to be all there is left in the future and we even have supermarket chains like Publix allowing to shop online and then the product is delivered to your door. Pretty soon no one will ever leave their house except to go to Disney.

There are a number of different reasons. In some businesses there was very little competition. When a company operated with virtually competition for a long period of time, they had no idea what to do when competition came.

Some companies made the mistake of diversifying to too great an extent and trying to become all things to all people.

Others just had bad business plans. New companies came up with more selection and lower prices. Older companies couldn't figure out how to to that. Everyone is competing with Wal-Mart these days. Big chains like that have much stronger buying power and can buy items for less money, sell them for less money and make more profit.

Retail is like everything else in life. Survival of the fittest will always apply. While some stores are going out of business other's are taking their place and thriving.

As these malls buildings are vacated other companies will fill them. Some malls will go completely under and something else will be built on the land. Free standing stores, office buildings, condominiums, or small housing developments will always be needed.

It isn't so much the buildings in cities like Boston that will become an issue, it's the suburban buildings being vacated. Being desirable, high rent properties/locations, inner city buildings will always be repurposed into condos, hotels, apts....and high end ones that will give a hefty return. If not repurposed, then new buildings are put up. But the Kmarts, Sears, huge stores that close down in the 'burbs? They're sitting empty and yes...it's a huge problem for the cities and towns. The tenants walk and the community is left to deal with abandoned buildings that now become havens for drug deals, squatters, vandalism.

We have a closed KMart in the heart of our small town that is NOT going to be re-leased; already its 3 yrs empty. It's too large to attract other retailers and too expensive to overhaul. It's a source of ongoing, very heated debates with every possible solution thrown out there. The criminal aspect in my mind is that the owner is currently constructing several new buildings less than sev hundred yards away in the same plaza while the KMart one sits empty and rots. I think towns and cities should have some control over private development in these instances. If the vacant buildings can't be leased within a certain period of time, the developer should be responsible for tearing them down and repairing the land before any further building will be allowed.

As to what happens with all these buildings in less attractive locations than economically healthy cities? Not much apparently; it's going to be a dismal landscape one day.

Interesting, a poster laments the passing of brick and mortar shops and then tells us this

So he found one pair of pants that he liked and in his size, tried them on, went home and ordered them on line. We would have liked to shop in the actual store, but had to resort to the internet.



LOL

So what is your point? WE WENT TO SPEND MONEY IN A BRICK AND MORTAR STORE, due to the bad management of that store we HAD to buy on line. If they want to keep a store open and vibrant get with the program and make the store inviting.

Very interesting discussion. Progress has always been an issue for some, and a revelation for others. It amazes me how quickly we find buildings to be obsolete in this country, compared to Europe. We have beautiful sports venues being razed and replaced because they are not "state of the art". In Minneapolis/St. Paul for example, they are on their third new home of the Twins and Vikings since the early sixties, and similar stories abound in other cities. In Kansas City we have had the same stadiums for the Royals and Chiefs since the early 70s, but with massive remodels, and much opposition that preferred new venues. In Kansas City North, where I live we had a "state of the art" mall built in the mid seventies that has been razed in the last year. I guess the progress is good and keeps thing fresh and interesting, but I wonder if we are being good stewards of our resources. It seems that in this country we are awfully quick to opt for the "new thing". I suppose that everything changes for the better in the long run, but it is hard to keep up with the changes at our ages.

The Sample Road Flea Market is one example of great use of a space that would typically house a KMart or similar.

You can't blame Amazon for brick and mortars going out of business. Walmart had the market for years, taking over huge parcels of land near ma-and-pa shops, putting them all out of business. Our country is paying for that now. I don't shop at Walmart, partially because of that, partly because of the treatment of their employees, partly because of a complete lack of customer service (it's not bad, it's simply non-existent). When Walmart announced their interest in a nearby town, I was one of the people protesting it. That town, once a thriving high-middle and upper class town, is nothing like it used to be, with small shops having closed completely, boutiques dead, and the property values dropped significantly, bringing into it lower expectations.

It was the choice of shoppers that these things happened. Amazon would not have done so well, if shoppers rejected online purchases. Convenience is convenient, but it doesn't build communities. In fact, it apparently shatters them, as we are seeing now.

I'd love to see some of these closed large department stores turned into a Sample Road Flea Market type deal. Not a mall, but not a singular store either. A place where people can buy and sell new things, hand-made things, antique things, craftwork and fine art, get reasonably priced fresh LOCAL produce (or at the very least, grown in Florida), maybe get a hot knish and a gourmet pickle right out of the barrel for lunch in the center somewhere. The kind of place where most of the booths are rented by the year, but there's a few spaces available for short-term folks who only want to sell things for a season. All in an air conditioned space with tons of parking.

As for malls, a few of you mentioned that all the stores have switched over to malls. News flash for those of you who never venture beyond your own village and don't ever read anything other than your own developer's newsrag: malls are also going out of business. Entire malls, and all the stores in them. Wikipedia even has a page dedicated to them and references the Centre of Tallahassee as one of them.

If you want to see boutiques, antique shops, little ma and pa stores, bodegas, luncheonettes, and other locally-derived shopping experiences, you'll have to start by patronizing the ones still in existence. Stop buying your wrench from Amazon, if there's a hardware store nearby. Sure, it'll cost you an extra buck but it's not like you'll need to buy wrenches every month. Put some food in your neighbor's mouth and sacrifice an extra 10 minutes of your life, in exchange for the thriving of community commerce.

Buy e-books online, sure, why not! But if you're looking for a hard-cover book that was published in the 1970's, get offline, and get your butt to an antique book store or the public library.

BE the customers that these shops exist to serve, and the shops will return.

I respectfully do not agree that Walmart deserves such criticism. They employ people and that is good. They sell things cheaply and that is good. They are successful at it, or at least were successful at it, so they held the market.

I don't see their business model as a nefarious plan to put small business out of business. I see a business plan that worked. I shop there for many things.

It is my personal business plan to be thrifty and keep money to save so that we can take care of our own.

"Our own" used to be the guy who had the fish market down the street. He was put out of business by the supermarket. HIS fish was much fresher (off the boat every morning), and sometimes even less expensive. But because it was THREE WHOLE BLOCKS further from the neighborhood than the supermarket, and it involved a WHOLE EXTRA STOP just for the fish, people stopped going to him and instead got everything they needed at the supermarket. The supermarket employs mostly people who don't live in our neighborhood at all. They come in off the city bus, or drive from the next town away.

So we didn't do a very good job of "taking care of our own" did we?

You're experiencing the results of this phenomenon now, which is what this thread is all about. The brick and mortars are going out of business, because convenience has replaced quality. There's nothing to agree with or disagree with. There's fact, and there's denial.

Our own could very well work at Walmart. Or at Apple or at any large business. Large business sustains and feeds the National economy. If a small business is very good it grows and lives and even sometimes becomes a big business that employees many and reverses poverty and hunger.

The brick and mortar retail stores have gone out of business because a new technology has replaced going out of your home to shop. The brick and mortar places that paint toes and color and cut hair at this time are still needed. Supply and demand.

You cannot outsource nails and hair dressers to the internet, you cannot put plumbing, electricity, gas, yard work, building etc. etc. on the internet. It is not a case of supply and demand, it is more a case of needing a person to do hair and nails and the other jobs. Maybe a lesson to be learned here if someone is raising children ..... steer them towards the trades. But, once again, the trades don't need a brick and mortar building on the high street, just their cell phone and a truck.

Regarding the Wal-Mart discussion:

In my perfect world, Wal-Mart would have been including company stock as a part of compensation for all their store employees.

Publix employees “own” those nice, clean stores with the helpful employees. (Publix stock is not publicly traded.)

Procter and Gamble, I think from its beginning, included stock in employee compensation. PG has a long history of paying, and increasing, dividends. (I assume other big companies have employee stock plans as a part of their business plan.)

I think stock-owning employees are good for a company. The potential for ROI is not only monetary but can have positive educational and psychological components for individuals who work there — at every level. Employee loyalty and commitment is a constant influence on ROI.

But Wal-Mart did not ask me how to run their company.

In my perfect world, McDonalds would include stock for all employees, too.

For those who think this would be a give-away, I hope you will stop and think this through. A share here and a share there, over time, would/could be an all-around investment and really good for business.

(Retail and restaurants, in general, are not known for investing in their frontline employees to cultivate employee loyalty.)

Is it true that there are only a dozen or so Walmart's in Connecticut?

Is it true that Walmart just recently came to that state?


There are three here in the Villages, four if you count the one real close off 466A and 441/27.

Apparently some areas of the country are not as familiar with Walmart as others.

I still have not visited a Trader Joe's. But I have a positive feeling toward it because of opinions on this forum.

Aren't Trader Joe's a brick and mortar in strip malls? Not an anchor because they are small?

They will look like Detroit.

Aging in place...
 

During our last visit to the Atlanta area, our dear friends took us to a “live, work and play” development, made possible by a failing mall or similar space. In my opinion, it addressed many if not all the needs and wants of people regardless of age. “The Villages” fulfills that need for the “boomers” era now, and I see it adaptable and desireable to many ages and stages of life in the future.

Thank you for posting. I just did a quick search on the concept and it is really great and very forward thinking. We will just have to hope that the depressed areas of the country have elected officials with the imagination to follow some of these great ideas.

Amazon is looking to add more Whole Foods stores......

Amazon to expand Whole Foods stores: WSJ

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[QUOTE=graciegirl;1611539
Apparently some areas of the country are not as familiar with Walmart as others.
[/QUOTE]

It's only since we've moved here that I've become a WalMartian. Or would that be WalMartienne? There were no Walmarts convenient to us back up north.

Love the prices on household goods such as paper products, water, soda, bleach, etc., etc. And, lately I've been ordering at Walmart.com and having the heavy stuff delivered (with no shipping fees). Love it.

Remember Jordan Marsh?