Golf Course conditions
 

I have been living in the villages for 7 years now. I moved from Colorado in retirement which was a long distance move. One of the reasons for moving here was that the golf courses were pristine and well maintained. I could have easily found another retirement area in Arizona but with a few less amenities but I chose the villages.

After playing mostly the championship courses over the past several months the golf courses in the villages have deteriorated to the point that they are no longer enjoyable to play...as I call them a "goat ranch." After speaking to one the managers at one of the clubs I asked why the courses no longer "overseed" with rye grass in the winter. After several reasons which I disagreed with, I have come to the conclusion that it is all about the money.

I hear, see and read about the wonderful growth of the villages and what a great thing it is for the quality of life here. After seeing the increase in traffic, lack of retail and commercial areas and the condition of the golf courses, I am getting the sense that the villages is becoming just another large city...yes city (pop. at 130K going to over 200K in the next several years).

Unless more attention is paid to the things I have mentioned earlier, I'm afraid the overbuilding and lack of maintenance will be a detriment to people thinking of moving to the villages.

Try Cane Garden......

You hit the nail on the head it’s a real shame that the owners allow this to happen .The Villages are no longer known for there courses.play outside as much as you can.

Now that the new rates for Summer have come out, I just want to know what I’m going to get for the addition money? Pristine greens?, lush fairways? Better tee times? I don’t mind paying extra for something but I would expect a little in return

Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
I've lived here full time for 5 years.
For the benefit of readers of this forum who may be considering a move to The Villages, please know that I couldn't disagree more with the statements and opinions expressed in the above post.

Played Cane Garden this morning......Great Shape.


Couple greens, with a couple SMALL spots needing and getting attention.


Continuing to love this place.

Having first rented here about 10 years ago and purchasing almost 7 years ago...I couldn't agree with you more.

I can't help but wonder though, if the deterioration of 'some' of the champ courses (I don't play exec's)...is totally by accident/lack of funding?

I'm thinking that Da Family, as exhibited by what's going on down south with big courses not coming close to keeping up with the increasing residency...is actually in 'The Plan.'

As golf loses participation in general, it's my opinion that an emphasis is being put toward what Da Family thinks...will be the biggest draw to future retirees. :shrug:

I wouldn't even be surprised, that if in the next 10 years or so one or two of the older/less popular championship courses (and maybe exec's)...are closed for good.

Which is certainly not unheard of, given the number of golf courses nationwide...that have closed in the last decade.


Golf Course Closures (poke here)

Quote:

More than 800 golf courses have closed nationwide in the last decade, as operators grapple with declining interest in the sport and a glut of competition. Many of those shuttered courses were built on land proscribed from redevelopment by local zoning codes seeking to preserve open space — or, as with Ahwatukee, by deed restrictions intended to protect homeowners who had paid a *premium to live near a golf course.

After all, they do take up a whole lot of real estate that could be turned into new housing, or other money-making ventures...that have a much greater value.

Just a thought. :ho:

where are these older/less popular courses.....there must be a lot of tee times available. Help, I will put them in my next request.

[QUOTE=ColdNoMore;1640003][SIZE="2"]Having first rented here about 10 years ago and purchasing almost 7 years ago...I couldn't agree with you more.

I can't help but wonder though, if the deterioration of 'some' of the champ courses (I don't play exec's)...is totally by accident/lack of funding?

I'm thinking that Da Family, as exhibited by what's going on down south with big courses not coming close to keeping up with the increasing residency...is actually in 'The Plan.'

As golf loses participation in general, it's my opinion that an emphasis is being put toward what Da Family thinks...will be the biggest draw to future retirees. :shrug:

I agree, there seems to be a new emphasis being put on other things besides golf, as well as other subtle changes such as the type of music (both in the squares and played on WVLG) that indicate the developers are changing their focus to draw a new generation of retirees. Unfortunately, we bought in the Villages because we loved the way things were and not because we want to enjoy things that future generations might put a greater emphasis on. That being said, it's still a great place that we enjoy a lot. We just don't want to see what we bought into change.

And, it's been recently reported that Tiera Del Sol and Hacienda are in very good condition .

"Change" can be hard to accept...for a lot of people.


But like the old saying goes; "The only constant in life...IS change."


:ho:

If TV did not keep up with the times in every way it would slowly turn into a ghost town.

This, a thousand times over.

People who bought in the 1980's, were already 55+ then. That means they're 85+ now. Life happens. And life ends. Those houses would be vacant, if you didn't ever keep up. That doesn't mean you have to embrace every trend that comes along, but you do need to provide for some generational shifting.

Also if Sirius Radio works in the Villages, there are TONS of oldies stations you can listen to. My husband prefers 1950's music and the Grateful Dead, while I prefer AOR (album-oriented rock). People complaining about the radio station sound like they don't realize other options exist. I find that incredibly odd.

edited to add: I don't know if Sirius works in the Villages because I don't have the subscription for my car. My husband has it for his truck, and he hasn't driven down yet. We've flown the last few times we've been there, including when we bought the house last month.

As for other amenities, I think there's enough of a variety to suit pretty much every taste.

I agree with those that are saying change will come to some of the golf courses and you will see shifts in land use. It is happening all over the country so why would it not occur here. I would expect The Villages to lag this trend as is occuring, but that time gap in the lag continues to get smaller.

Golf was the reason I moved here. Has been disappointing year over year.

I really don't understand the disappointment at all. Most folks move to golf communities for the golf. I get that. But most golf communities don't have around 40 9-hole courses and over a dozen 18-hole courses. Most golf communities don't even have 5 9-holes and 2 championships. And the other golf communities cost a lot more to live there, more in membership fees, more in HOA fees, have fewer amenities, and you generally can't stop at the supermarket on your way home from the 18th hole to grab a quart of milk, with your golf cart.

This is a golf community and there are DOZENS of courses you can choose from. If several are in bad shape, there are still several in good shape. It's likely you'll get out on one of the better-kept courses at least a few times every week, as long as you don't insist on only going to the ones that are in bad shape. That's how I'm perceiving it, so I'm not really understanding why it's a problem.

Just a response to all who answered my initial post.The reason I chose the villages was the sheer amount of EXCELLENT golf courses. If it now comes down to one or two champ. courses out of 13 that are in DECENT condition, I can get that anywhere without the traffic and hour waits in restaurants. Some other retirement communities offer one or two courses and that's fine. That's why I chose NOT to move there. I pay amenity fees and greens fees so that ALL the courses create a variety for me to play. To AW MAN's post that you disagree with everything I said...you either don't play golf on the championship courses or you're not aware of what a real golf course should look and play like. Most logical people I talk with agree that the growth here and the conditions of the courses have eroded the quality of life...and if others can't see that I think it's time to remove your rose colored glasses!

I think the opposition to the music is that there is one station that is broadcast out of every single speaker in every single square. I have nothing against the type of music they play, just that they play it, and I can't turn it off or down when I'm in a square. Perhaps you haven't yet been to a square and don't understand the opposition.


As for the golf courses and your not understanding what the problem is, I would ask how many golf courses in TV you have played on, and over what period of time. I think you might not have been here long enough to understand some of the current problems some golfers, especially the serious ones, are experiencing.

:clap2:

As far playing the courses that are in decent shape, please realize you are not guaranteed that golf course when you input courses and times. AS FOR CONDITIONS,when people who work at these courses tell you to omit them from the rotation, you know something is wrong.

So if golf course conditions are not that great, then quality of life in TV is poor. And if others don't understand that their quality of life is poor because of the golf course conditions, then they are blind.

Wow. chilout

Yes I've been to the squares several times, and have heard the music. Many of the speakers don't work, so nothing comes out of them at all. Some of them are louder than others, it seems, and it also depends on whether or not you're facing them or facing away from them. I don't really pay attention to the sound coming from those speakers at all. It's just background noise, to me. The gas-powered golf carts driving by are louder and obscure anything that'd come from the speakers anyway.

As for golf, I'm not a golfer. My husband is, but I'm not. It doesn't matter that I'm not though, because the courses should be somewhat attractive, whether I'm playing on them or not. That's part of what my amenity fee is paying for. If it's in *bad* shape, it should be repaired. But if there are 40 executive courses and half of them need to be repaired, there's still 20 more executive courses. At $159/month, for access to 20 executive courses in good shape plus all the other amenities, I'm not seeing why this would be "disappointing" or that people aren't getting their money's worth or being ripped off.

If you were paying the typical HOA fee for a single-course community in Georgia or South Carolina, you'd suffer from sticker shock. It's the hue and cry that I'm not understanding. I DO understand that you absolutely positively deserve to have these courses in good shape.

But it's not like there aren't any courses to play at, or that you can get zero tee-times at any of the good ones, at all during the week. There are, and you can. Not as many as there arguably should be, but I think for $159/month what you are getting shouldn't be a deal-breaker.

This response is the shorter version of mine. It speaks exactly to WHY I'm confused.

Bogart
 

Played Bogart today. Pictures say it all! There was no way you could putt on the “greens.” Nuff said! Sorry the pictures are sideways but they look just as bad right side up!

That's pretty pathetic. Is it indicative of all the other courses? What do the best of the Exec look like? How many of the execs are in this horrible shape? How many are in *good* shape? How many are in "tolerable" shape?

Of the ones in bad shape, how many are in the process of being repaired?

Even a "blind" person...can see how bad that is. :oops:

What's all that white stuff making the track marks in the 2nd photo, and peppering that grid area in the 3rd photo? And why is the grid area a grid area? As I've said several times in my several hundred posts on this forum - I don't play golf. But I spent the first 30 years of my life within walking distance of a golf course and used to hang out on it after the golfers left for the day. My grandparents were charter members of a country club that had a beautiful course, and then they lived in a community in Florida that had a gorgeous well-kept course. So I'm not completely ignorant of what they should look like. Just never seen that grid pattern or white powder dumped all over one before.

To anyone that knows golf, that green is aerated and sanded, pretty normal stuff. I would advise anyone to get an aeration schedule from any champ course.
Steve

Steve- I have a copy of the aerification schedule and it says Bogart will be aerated June 4-6. So that does not explain it. All I know is that Bogart is unplayable right now. Other exec courses are not as bad (although admittedly I don't golf exec that often) so I guess you just avoid this one. AS FOR CHAMP, right now Evans, Belle Glade and Cane are in the best condition. Havana is terrible- greens OK but fairways deplorable. Bonifay- meh. Have not played the other champs recently.

That really doesn't matter about the schedule, the greens are still aerated. They are trying to fix a problem sooner than later. Why people would moan and groan about this on any course, is beyond me. Damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess. In a couple of months, with more rain and with less play that I am noticing already, most, if not all courses will be just fine. Take that as you will, that's the last I'm going to say (well maybe) on this subject. All's I can do is shake my head at some of the ridiculous posts, without naming any in particular.
Steve

Been playing courses here for six years both executive and championship. Those are not aerated greens. There are huge areas of black bare dirt and large holes on all the greens where there is no grass at all. We talked to one of the maintence guys on Bogart today and he said they have thrown fertilizer, sand, and spray paint on the greens and surrounding areas around the greens. He seems genuinely out of explanations for the conditions. No aeration!

That green is aerated and sanded. I've seen it enough to know
Steve

Doze it and turn it into a...'Putt & Play.' :D




With lots of vehicle parking. :1rotfl:

As you said, I am not a golfer. Maybe that explains why you haven't seen it before. Oh wait, you don't live here yet. Soon, when you do, a lot of your questions will be answered.

Ya know... I'm just a casual golfer and not all that competent at judging one course from another, so although I have been on greens that I thought were not in good shape, I have no expertise.


However, enough people are complaining, and a lot of people are saying wait until the snowbirds go home. But the whole idea is to have full occupancy in the winter months, and the weather and activities and golf are advertised as such. Do they ever say Come Down on the Off Season and Find Great Golf Course Conditions?


My opinion is that the courses should be maintained to a higher standard during the high season, because that's what TV is all about, the winter warmth and the outdoor activities.

That is it in a nutshell,,! And those that dont want to hear the concerns about the conditions should stay off the thread so they wont be so bothered by the comments. Waiting for the summer to enjoy good conditions is such a shortsighted solution and answer.

The white “stuff” on the greens is sand. The greens on most of the courses I have played recently have been top dressed with a thin layer of sand. The aerification will come through the next six to 8 weeks. The sand is spread and dragged to help create a smooth surface for grass growth.

Apparently several people do not realize that Bermuda grass, which is on all the greens, (and fairways), does NOT grow in the cooler months. As our temperatures warm now, the Bermuda grass comes out of dormancy unevenly. No matter what maintenance does, they can not make Bermuda grass grow in cold/cool temperatures. The warmer the winter months here, the better chance there will be some Bermuda grass growth. Conversely colder temperatures or longer lasting cold spells preclude Bermuda grass growth.

Overseeing with rye grass used to be done on tees and greens, but there are some problems with that especially as the Bermuda comes out of dormancy and the rye grass dies off in the heat of spring. I did some self directed research on the internet of the advantages/disadvantages of overseeding. Interesting reading.

I play mainly championship courses and have found most are fine this time of year considering the grass is dormant. Orange Blossom, Tierra de Sol, Mallory, Cane, Belle Glade, Hacienda Hills all okay. Haven’t played others recently. I seldom play execs in the winter, but recently played Escambia. I thought the greens were fine except for being slow due to the top dressing of sand.

Thank you Bill!
Steve

I am a golfer and I agree the greens (especially on the executive courses I've played) are in poor condition. I hope that over the summer they will be able to fix the issues. But I still love living here. I love all the golfing options, but it's not the only reason I live here. I've made great friends and I love all the activities. It's a well maintained, beautiful place to live. The "HOA" fee pays for so much more than golf course maintenance. And that fee is unbelievably reasonable.
What frustrates me is that so many people expect "The Developer" to fix things. "Fix the Villages Regional Hospital, fix the golf courses, stop selling homes because it's getting too big/too much traffic and I don't like that."
If there comes a time The Villages doesn't have what I'm looking for... I will move to a community that better fits my needs. But I'm not going to blame The Developer... I believe they are trying to do the right thing for the people that live here. And I certainly don't begrudge them for making a profit on what they are doing.

played Pimlico today. Can't remember ever seeing any golf track in a condition as poor as this. Tees ,Fairways and Greens all substandard