Amenity fees
 

The raising of fees brings to mind a few questions:

There was no mention of such a need two years ago when we purchased. Now they can see 10 years ahead?
What are the monies used for by item?
With a 70 million dollar budget I was expected to have a cost reduction program. What has been done in the villages?
Will we all be paying for new facilities south of 44?
The contract we signed when purchasing was no good? So I can decide also what I want to change, like bond?
The presentation for raising rates stated that failure to raise would result in a loss of 50 million. It could very easily be taken to mean we would be 50 in the hole. This should be a prediction of our current status in 10 years.
I seriously doubt that anyone can predict ten years ahead!
Are we allowed to see a line item of past and future budget and actual?
Are we being asked for such a large raise in anticipation of all settling for something less?
I understand that 40 50 dollars per month would be no problem for some but a significant problem for others A 25 % increase for such a short term seems a little much.
I also understand that some will take issue with my concerns but I think several others would also agree.
Just my opinion.

A

Your questions are mostly valid and I share some of your concerns, but I'm curious as to where the "25% increase" comes from. I'm no expert, but it is my understanding that the overall cap on amenity fees was being considered for elimination. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the amenity fee cannot be increased in any year by more than the Consumer Price Index (CPI), which at current CPI rates, would take over ten years to increase by the 25% you mention.

I think when you move into a community you have to understand how it works and I would expect costs to increase over time. Both due to inflation and increased wants by the residents. Look at the fees as real estate taxes helping to support just your community (Villages) and not the whole county.

I was intending to compare the increase for ten years for the increase over the last ten years . A poor choice of words on my part

I don't disagree about cost going up just the amount that could possibly come to be.

It is my understanding that this is being considered only in the area that sued the developer and won control of running that area.

Not in any area south of 466. Champion, Bogie Shooter, CWGuy? Am I wrong or right?

I have no problem with the cap being removed as long as annual increases are limited to the CPI. Expenses go up, it's life. I just wish that other costs like health care, food, gas, data plans, greens fees, insurance, etc... could also never go up more than the CPI.

Simple, if you cap the fees and costs continue to grow..........the assets are going to go down in quality.


I guess some want this.


:ohdear:

If the executive golf courses are an amenity and I believe they are. The quality has already diminished.

Nope. It is being considered by both areas.

https://www.**************.com/2019/...deferral-rate/

Increase is for SOUTH of 466. There is a meeting this week to discuss the need to increase fees north of 466.

And here we go again...................
Maybe that's one of the reasons why?
Steve

Please remember that without the current cap, many households would already be paying more than currently. The cap was originally established to address a large disparity in amenity fees between residents and because revenue was adequate to cover expenses.

Why the change? The disparity has diminished as those below the cap have seen their fee rise toward that amount while those already there have enjoyed stable fees. The district has now adjusted projected expenses to include necessary refurbishment and/or replacement of amenities. (The original lawsuit that resulted in the AAC north of 466 was filed because there was insufficient funds allocated to adequately maintain amenities.)

Removing or increasing the cap does not remove the limit to how much your amenity fee can rise each year. You are not facing a 25% rise in one or two years.

I would need to better understand what the funds are spent for currently. What cost savings efforts have been put in place? Places that get their funds from the public coffers have a history of never trying to save money, but to make sure they spend 100% of their budget. 100% of all Federal agencies speed 100% of the budget every year. Never once have they spent less. Now I am sure there is probably one exception to that.

Business on the other hand get budget challenges every year. When I managed a business I had an 8% budget challenge on existing business every year. How to automate, standardize, and consolidate all aspects every year.

Does our amenities control folks do anything to cut their costs? Have they done bulk purchases, reduced staff per unit if work? Bid each job they sub out? The money available grows as the Villages grows. But what are they doing to contain and lower cost.

Before I would ever support an increase they would need to prove they have done everything possible to reduce cost.

It would be great if this was run as a business and they could cut costs as required however, in a business when you cut costs you are concerned with other impact factors....where will your customers go to when they find your quality decreases, where will your employees go when you can't maintain wages etc. Here, a bit different, people came here for a lifestyle expectation. Do you really believe those of us that live here will pack up and leave when the amenities we expect are reduced? Do you really think the labor market will be here when wages are locked or decrease? Do you believe that the suppliers give a darn about a CPI? Have you looked at Home Owners Associations rates in other communities? Have you attended The Villages Academy? Have you contacted the financial folks? Do you attend the PWAC or your CDD meetings? The answers to all your questions are available....go find them. But you know that.

The web site mentioned above is blocked out. I’m in district 6, does anyone know how much the fees are going to be?

I have read your posts for the last dozen year and know that you are very aware of what is going on and have reasonable expectations and no axe to grind.

Thank you for this explanation.

I'm sorry, for some reason TOTV does not always let us copy items from the online newspaper. I will send you the link in a PM and see i that works for you.

None of that has been decided...…………..

By your join date you have been here 3 years, surely by now you know all those budget meetings are open to the public. Better to get your answers there then on here... which most of the time is speculation.

Yep, wrong.

The current set-up only gives a “break” to those who stay put and don’t purchase another house. Even though I have lived in The Villages for 13 years and paid my amenity fees, If I move (new or resale) I will pay more. Go figure. Somehow that doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

Well, you -could- just pay more now instead. Have everyone pay the same. It'd a be a lot easier, cost-effective, and less expensive to do the accounting for, if every property was assessed the same amenity fee every month. They each have access to the same amenities, so I don't see a problem with that.

Or not.
Steve

Your amenity fee was established in the contract you signed when you purchased your house. It increases every year by the Consumer Price Index, on the anniversary of your house purchase.

If you purchased a few years ago, you are probably paying about $150 - 155 per month. Its on your water/garbage bill.

It will continue to go up by the CPI every year. The only thing new is that now, there will not be a ceiling that stops the increases. It will increase every year. The CPI has been in the 1.5 - 2 - 3% range. So the annual increase is about $3 or so each month.

This fee pays for the operation of the recreation facilities, not the general maintenance of the roads, gates, flower beds, etc. That maintenance is paid by you annually with your property tax bill.

Thank you for explaining how these fees work.

Can’t do that. The contract everyone agreed to when you purchased your house spells out exactly how the amenity fee can change. To unilaterally move every home to the same fee violates that agreement. In fact, the capping of the fee is one way to accomplish that without violating the agreement. A secondary effect of the cap is to keep the disparity in fees between homes from widening.

Just a quick question, can anyone find a place anywhere on earth were they can get more amenities for about $155 per month? I know I can't. So if my fees go up by the CPI each year I am good with that.

I'll try to answer your questions, I am a CDD-10 Supervisor and a member of the PWAC and have been involved with the budgeting for the last 5 years that I've lived here in The Villages.

There was no mention of such a need two years ago when we purchased. Now they can see 10 years ahead?
The projected shortfalls have been known for at least the last 5 years. A rolling 10 year forecast is a part of every budget cycle for every budget in The Villages. The need to address the Deferral Rate has be discussed at the PWAC budget meetings since the Developer sold the amenities between 466 & 44 to SLCDD over 2 years ago and PWAC accepted an advisory role in the operations of the Amenities.

What are the monies used for by item?
The amenities budget (SLAD fund) has hundreds of line items on it, all the information is public records, most of these are discussed at the budget workshops and CCD/PWAC/AAC meetings. These meetings are happening over the next few months.

With a 70 million dollar budget I was expected to have a cost reduction program. What has been done in the villages?
There are many initiatives going on by the District Staff to reduce cost - consolidation of fleet vehicle leasing with Sumter County, shared fleet vehicle maintenance with Sumter County to utilize there excess capacity and reduce our costs by $500K a year, staff reorganization to eliminate redundancies and increase efficiency, contract consolidations to achieve economies of scale, entering into multi year contracts to lock in lower prices for services. There are a lot more going on in every department, but at midnight writing this additional items are escaping me.
Since Richard Baier has taken over as District Manager, these efforts to achieve cost reductions have increased dramatically.

Will we all be paying for new facilities south of 44?
No, the Developer builds and pays for all the amenities south of SR44. The Recreation and other departments staff, operate, and maintain the new facilities and the Developer is billed for these services, and the SLAD is reimbursed by the Developer. Funds used to pay for the operations of the amenities south of 44 come for the resident amenities fees south of SR44. The Developer owns these amenities contracts and when the monthly bill is paid by the residents it goes to the developer. This was the case also before the amenities (and amenities contracts) were purchased by SLCDD 2 years ago for the residents between 466 and 44, post-sale these fees are now collected by SLCDD and go directly into the SLAD fund. Bottom line is that the Developer builds and owns the new amenities south of 44 and pays the District to operate them.

The contract we signed when purchasing was no good? So I can decide also what I want to change, like bond?
I have no idea where you came up with this one. The contract (your deed restrictions) is valid and enforceable. The amenities and the bond are two completely different items and not related to each other.

The presentation for raising rates stated that failure to raise would result in a loss of 50 million. It could very easily be taken to mean we would be 50 in the hole. This should be a prediction of our current status in 10 years.
The projection is that in 2022-2023 revenues collected from the amenities fees will start to fall short of the cost of running the amenities. At that point we start to utilize capital reserves to cover these revenue/operating cost short falls. Over the 7 years that follow this will result in nearly $50M being depleted from the reserves. We'll be living on our savings account instead of our pay check, not a good plan. These capital reserves have been,and still are being, accumulated to cover long term repair and replacement of the amenities facilities, $300,000 is being spent this year to replace the roofs on 2 of the larger rec centers.

I seriously doubt that anyone can predict ten years ahead!
No, they can't get it down to the exact nickel that everything will costs. The staff has 30+ years of empirical data and trends that allow them to make fairly accurate projections and estimations. The can't predict the unknowns, for these we establish capital reserves to cover the unexpected.

Are we allowed to see a line item of past and future budget and actual?
Absolutely, it is all considered public records and you are entitled to see them. The current budgets and ongoing expenditures are also discussed at every CDD and other board meetings.

Are we being asked for such a large raise in anticipation of all settling for something less?
No increase is being requested beyond what is allowed for in the contract you agreed to when you purchased your home, annual CPI adjustments to the fee. For the last five years the CPI adjustment has been about 1.5%/year. What you won't find in your deed restrictions/contract is any mention of a deferral rate.
Nobody is bargaining for a pay raise or the cost of car and high balling or low balling the numbers to gain a better positions.

I understand that 40 50 dollars per month would be no problem for some but a significant problem for others A 25 % increase for such a short term seems a little much.
A 1.5% CPI adjustment on an amenity fee at the current deferral rate of $155 is a $2.33/month increase or $28/year. Don't know were you came up with $40 or $50 or 25%. It doesn't seem like a lot of money on an individual basis but when taken over the approximate 35,000 homes currently sitting a the deferral rate it equates to nearly a million dollars, this year that can't be collected to operate the amenities. Each year the number gets larger as more homes reach the deferral rate, by 2022 nearly 100% of the homes between 466 and 44 will be at the deferral rate.

You sound very concerned about this issue, you should be, it's important as it will directly affect the quality of life for everyone here in The Villages. Please come to the joint meeting Monday at 9:00 AM at the Laurel Manor Rec Center were this will be addressed. Feel free to express your concerns and ask your questions.

If you have questions and you want them answered directly please call me or send me an email. My contact information is listed on the districtgov.org website.

Don Wiley
CDD-10 Supervisor and PWAC member

There was a story in TVN that the board voted to eliminate the amenity fee cap - which seems like a smart move to me.

amenity fees
 

AMEN !!!

:bigbow:

Let's hope Bowtoc gives you a thank you and doesn't just fade away. I for one appreciate what you do and the information your provide....having someone plow through the misinformation and speculation is needed here and your inputs more than fill that need.

It sounds like rent control ("rent stabilization") in NYC: Rent stays the same until you move. I'm sure all fixed-income Villagers are "for" that.

You are right A BIG thank you is in order

How about charging fees based on how many people live in each home? It's not fair that a single person pays the same fees as a household of 2 or 3 or more.
We moved here expecting the amenities fees to remain fairly stable. Now there's talk of deleting the cap. Many folks are on a fixed income or no income at all and living on their savings.
Some don't use the golf courses, etc but are paying. When more people are in a home, chances are they are using the amenities much more than a single person. Wouldn't it make sense for them to pay more?

Reply
 

2.33 a month? Less than a good coffee. Imagine if all the rec centers and grounds went to pot.

You live in a development like no other for a mere pittance. Go visit places outside the bubble, really. Check the prices of run down trailer parks per month....then head home and celebrate having made the decision to live in The Villages.

This post reminds me of recent complaints after table tennis club members were advised that Laurel Manor Recreation Center will be closed for the month of July, ostensibly to replace rugs that appear to be in excellent condition. In this regard, periodic refurbishing on a rotational basis of all Villages Recreation Centers occurs, apparently regardless of necessity or cost. During maintenance, all scheduled activities are cancelled. At Laurel Manor, there are 8 table tennis tables usually occupied four times each week by more than 40 players. Recreation Center rooms used for table tennis (and numerous other activities) have wooden floors and separate exits outdoors. Do others share concerns about questionable amenity fee expenditures and curtailment of scheduled activities?

They are dropping the deferral rate....which means cap. There will be no cap as there is now, and that would be for all Villagers. The north of 466 thing refers to the fact that there are more people there paying lesser fees as they have lived there longer & started at a lower fee, and the rate can only go up yearly by the CPI increase. Before the proposed change they would top out at the deferral rate just like everyone else, but would just take longer to get there. Now there will be no deferral rate, or cap, to top out at...for anyone.

Pay more now
 

:bigbow: I agree completely! They must pay a fortune just to keep all of the information straight. Everyone should pay the same amount.