Some will not like this message
 

A message that we should heed. As TV grows, if you were still working, why would you move your family here for a job?

A tale of rich and poor at The Villages | Commentary - Orlando Sentinel

As a community, we should take responsibility for this situation. I realize nobody likes to pay higher prices and in fact I think what we pay for most products is similar to other areas in Florida. I think the difference is that the profit is being retained by a few and not being given to the ones that actually provide the labor.

The concern is when does this economic disparity break paradise. I believe we are already seeing cracks. Stick your head in the sand and hope your gone before it impacts you, but this disparity will not just magically disappear.

You do realize this paper has not been favorable to The Villages. Orlando, of all places should tout wage discrepancies. I want every detail, number, American citizen and all pertinent details for this survey. I have my doubts and think the numbers are skewed.

Did anyone ever consider that if Orlando must pay superior wages and is about one hour away, why wouldn’t one move and live there?

This is just more lies about The Villages. First, where did the original article get its data? The Villages is not an incorporated metro area. The Villages spans three countries and is located in three different cities/towns with the bulk being in unincorporated Sumter County. There is not specific data for just The Villages. This should be enough to debunk this story, but I will add a couple of more points. A lot of the people working in jobs in The Villages are retirees looking to supplement their SSI income or working just to keep busy. They are working in minimum wage positions and not working 40 hour weeks. If they earn to much, the SSI income can be reduced. The majority of the jobs in The Villages are service related. These then to be minimum wage positions. There are no manufacturing or warehousing jobs that pay higher wages which would increase the overall wage level.

It is not surprising that The Orlanda Sentinel would pick up this story. Over the years they have shown a bias against The Villages and the Morse family. I am sure this will show up in the next POA Bulletin as well.

How am I supposed to "take responsibility"? I think a private business should be able to make as much profit as they can, as long as they are complying with the labor laws and minimum wages. Are you proposing that The Villages establish a higher minimum wage than the rest of Florida? Nobody is forcing people to work here.

Ahh. That phrase reminds me of a very profound and true (imo) concept...

Freedom or economic equality. Pick one. You can’t have both.

The Orlando paper should check the salaries of Disney workers in their own back yard. I heard of a friend whose son did an internship at Disney and after college was hired by them. (operating one of the rides) He has a second job working at Universal to survive. At least TV is providing jobs. If they started to raise the wages here, many retirees could not afford TV. Look how much the home prices have risen.

Disney helps fund college for their workers, help with a place to stay. Our granddaughter, who dances was offered $19 hour to start. They work around school, and have the opportunity to work after graduation. She is pre med, would have also had hospital Opportunities. Have no idea what other positions pay.

Bla bla bla

Just another hit job by Ritchie. She comes out of her hole every few years to rag on The Villages.

The Orlando Sentinel article is based on the same "study" done by 24/7 Wall Street and currently included in the other news site.
Here is the letter sent to the editor there:
"Your recent article by Larry Croom erroneously states that “The Villages boasts highest rate of full-time working poor in the nation.” The table in the report by 24/7 Wall Street and repeated in your article actually shows that The Villages is among the cities with the lowest poverty rates. The Villages has the fifth lowest rate of working poor and the absolute lowest rate of overall poverty in that table."
I trust that as a responsible news organization you will correct your erroneous claim and also retract the vitriol spewed by Mr. Croom. Rather than excoriate The Villages for their success you should laud them. You should recognize that the economic activity spawned by The Villages provides opportunity for both individual employment as well as new small businesses. After all, how else could the area around The Villages achieve the lowest rate of overall poverty in the USA."

IMHO. the 24/7 report is a manipulation of published data by various entities but is not done rigorously so there is no way to get the kind of data and rigorous treatment that is applied by the Census bureau in their annual "American Community Services Report". Try to read a 24/7 Wall Street report and you will likely find yourself in an unending clickbait situation to get information and then end up with no conclusion available.

Actually there IS data specific to the Villages. The Villages is a "census-designated place" and as such, statistics are collected on it. Those statistics are public information, anyone can gain access to it.

You're looking at it through a very narrow scope. Let's widen this just a bit.

So, all these people you think should just get better paying jobs if they don't like it - go out and get better paying jobs.

Where will you be going to dinner next week? Who will be the starter at the golf course when you tee off tomorrow morning? Which phlebotomist will be taking blood to do tests on your neighbor to make sure he doesn't have a disease he's showing symptoms for? How about that cashier at the gas station - they'll have to close that. And Walmart, and Aldi's, and Lowe's...

These are all low-paying jobs - at or near minimum wage. If there's no one left to perform those duties, then all those places will close. And that means the Villagers have no place to dine out, no grocery store to buy food in, no gas for their cars, etc. etc.

SOMEONE has to do these jobs. There are people willing to do them, for whatever reason. But when you tell people "if you don't like it, move" - you're basically threatening to shoot yourself in the foot. It's an unwise approach.

Many people move their families here for a job because of the really good charter schools. Anyone working in a job connected to The Villages may place their children in the charter schools.

Also The Villages is a low crime area and has many new and growing businesses that attract people to seek to live nearby.

Many Villagers were at one time "the working poor" as you label it. There will be in any society those who earn more and those who earn less. It does not make them more or less valuable.

Some of you are debunking the messenger, but the message has merit. The more people that come to The Villages, the more service workers and professionals will be needed. These labor needs are not absorbed by retirees looking to supplement their income.

Where will they come from if wages stay low? I'm not sure where they will come from if we see a wage increase. When the Villages was smaller, the situation could be controlled. When the quality labor supply is consumed, you have to go outside and attract in new resources. How is that going to be achieved? If you think it is not your problem, then you better be prepared for more lack of service quality, general lack of service, and an increase in crime.

For those complaining about the Sentinal, take a look around for yourself. Read the complaints on this board. Talk to the workers.

If you want to ignore it, we will just need to agree to disagree and we can readdress the situation in three years. We will see which view is more accurate.

I imagine estate lawyers, financial advisors and funeral directors in the area do rather well; obstetricians perhaps not.

The Villages MSA includes all of Sumter county and does not include any of Lake or Marion counties. Look it up. There is no data specific to The Villages. The portion of The Villages in Marion county is included in the Ocala MSA and the Lake county residents are included in the Orlando-Kissimmee-Sanford MSA.

With the unemployment rate at 3.5% the only people that should be working for minimum wage are those with no education or no experience.. The labor market is getting so tight that according to Wingnut's latest video, Wendy's couldn't open because of lack of employees. Sooner or later employers will have to offer more even if it's just to attract warm bodies. I'm almost afraid to eat at a fast food places right now. They are definitely scraping the bottom of the barrel at least in my area.

Gracie, this is true, but its a very narrow view. This labor wage and housing concern branches out to Lady Lake, Wildwood, Fruitland Park and other areas. Many of these residents work around the Villages, but not the Villages directly so the school benefit has no value.

The message is that if we all want the Villages to continue to be what it has been, we have to start supporting change to ensure it is sustainable. Otherwise, don't expect the Villages to be immune to the problems seen in any other community.

Quite simply I view what you just said as rhetoric. It is how you view society in my opinion. I think that life will always have a curve of earners. If we build public housing for them, how are they better off than the really inexpensive housing they can rent or buy all around here? I know and many of my friends know what it is like to live on a small income. Your goals are kind and good. I see a lot of poor people who live around us that won't be poor long. I see it in the people who work long hours doing back breaking labor in the heat and bring their lunch to save money. Many will be a future teacher, CEO or President of this country. It is no shame to be poor and no shame to be rich either. Those who do their best and can do no better will most likely be alright too. I have lived long enough to see it happen. We need to save our concern for the truly disabled among us.

If one is not making a sustainable wage, they need to go where they will do so. How can one work with fixed income population and expect to get rich? There are no large industries or commercial businesses in this community.

People continue to cluck how wealthy this community is and the truth is there are some high rollers but most residents have budgets. This is a huge population and when restaurants are busy, it is assumed we’re all rich. Not so. Over 100,000 people live here now and we’re not all out to eat at once. The outlier communities depend on The Villages for their dining out too. I can’t speak for everyone else but I would not spend $20. for a fast food meal and will cut back on spending even more if a $15./hr wage is voted into law. Can’t spend what you can’t afford.

Yes I can certainly relate to “economic disparity”
since I really experienced it first hand early in my working career!
Yet that experience really motivated me
make an effort to gain marketable skills and capabilities
that would enhance my financial situation!
I now believe there is always a silver lining
in every cloud, but sometimes you have to look real hard to find it!

It is not a new problem of not having enough workers to work the services, businesses around more well to do population centers. (for lack of a better descriptor).

It has been going on for years.....MANY years.

One of the keys to attracting those who serve (servers) is affordable housing nearby the areas being served.

A problem most growing communities have had for generations. A problem that has been discussed for generations. A problem that has gone unsolved in many of the growing areas.
Seems like an issue most would support .......as long as it is not in their back yard.

Hence not much gets done about it.

I have been on committees and organizations over the years where this subject was worked, verbally, year in and year out.
In the end the majority of servers still commute from surrounding area of larger communities. The ones who want and need to work have no choice but to commute.

My 2 cents.

Actually Sumter County is the MSA of which The Villages is a part. The Villages is classified as a Census Designated Place.

Most poor people are poor because of poor life choices. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize you need skills and a bit of "book learning" to get a good paying job. So many high schools are graduating students that can't pass 6th grade math and reading tests. Most schools provide a good education if you want to be educated, but when you sluff off and do nothing and graduate as an illiterate it isn't the school's fault. When I worked for the State of Tennessee I interacted with manufacturers in the state and their biggest complaint was that they couldn't find qualified employees. A number of employers in the machining industry said that job applicants didn't know or even understand fractions which is a definite skill needed for a machinist. Many of them had such low reading skills that they couldn't answer the questions on the job application. Many employers complained that young employees would call in sick at least twice a week or show up late for work. So many young people have no work ethic. Young girls/women getting pregnant outside of marriage which is a direct road to poverty, but we have a system that allows them to live public housing and receive benefits that sometimes exceed what the "working poor" get for their efforts.
Trucking companies constantly advertise for drivers and many of them will pay for driving school but apparently not many take advantage of this opportunity. I know from my discussion with company CEO's that drug testing disqualifies a lot of applicants.
My wife and I lived outside of Nashville about 35 miles and drove there daily to our jobs. The pay in our town of residence was much lower than in Nashville so we commuted there for work. Car pools were available for those who didn't have a car or didn't have one that would hold up to the daily drive.
My wife and I both didn't come from families with money, we were at the bottom of the ladder in the "working poor" class. We both grew up very poor. I graduated from high school and then went into the Army where I learned skills that I enabled me to find employment after I retired from the military. Last time I checked there are service recruiters all over the place looking for recruits, but you do have to have a bit of intelligence and education to get in plus pass a drug test. If you did poorly in school and were graduated just to get you through the system forget about being accepted by the military.
A lot of the time you may have to move to a larger city to find a good paying job. Move!

Number 10 GI your post has literally nothing to do with the topic. The concern of this topic is the NEED for lower-paid workers in an area that doesn't really support lower-paid workers anymore. As the Villages expands, its population increases. A bigger population needs more restaurants, more gas stations, more grocery stores, more handymen, more clothing stores, etc. And as that need grows, so does the need for employees to work in all of those places. All of those places are minimum-wage or close to it.

Who do you suppose should fill these open positions? Where do you feel those people will come from? They won't be in your neighborhood - your neighborhood is mostly retired people who have no interest in working anywhere at all, and don't have to, and have already earned their retirement.

You'll need younger folks, high school and college students, 20-somethings, to fill these positions. What pool of workers will they come from, if the Villages occupies most of the liveable real estate?

In my northern home in the suburbs we have public transit. Someone living on the same main street that crosses my neighborhood, but one town away, has to take TWO buses just to get to the Burger King in my town. That's a 1.5 hour bus trip, one way, to get to a part time job with zero benefits.

Meanwhile in the greater Boston area, you can buy a T pass and be at work within 20 minutes for the same mileage as in my suburban home, after a 2-block walk to the T station.

The Villages doesn't have any public transportation at all. There's no public bus, or public shuttle, or public tram. There's no way to get from Ocala or Leesburg to the Spanish Springs Win Dixie if you don't have a car, or pay for an Uber/Lyft driver.

Proximity to work is really important if you are a young person trying to earn money for college, or trying to stay in college, or trying to start out your working life and needing something to pay the bills while you persue your career.

I stood in one of local Walmart`s last week around 2 PM and watched a Robot wearing a name tag that said "Bob "take a complete inventory on one long aisle as he worked his way carefully around and among shoppers . I timed it . It took him 3 minutes . Then he turned almost elegantly and scanned the other side of the aisle .
In California" Bob " relays the info to the back room of the store as well as to the warehouse a distant away . The " Back-Room " version of Bob loads up what is needed to restock the shelves and moves about the store replenishing them .
At the Regional Warehouse another " Bob " loads a truck with needed inventory to be driven to a Walmart Store .
Soon that truck will drive itself to that store . Upon arrival one of the " Bobs " will unload the truck and store the merchandise in the " Back-Room " . So far no low wage humans involved in the entire process . And this is how the need for many future low wage workers will be solved .
Of course none of this really matters for Climate Change is going to make this a" Moot Problem "according to the same minds that twist data to form a narrative for a " Slam-Article " printed in a dying publication within a dying industry .

Economics 101. A tight labor market will bring increased wages. Increased wages will raise demand. Inflation follows and then interest rates go up to cool things off. And the beat goes on. We've all been around long enough to see this many times. Even though there are bumps in the road such as oil embargoes and trade wars the overall pattern is predictable. Supply and demand models are constant.

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Leesburg bus stops at Spanish springs bus station several times a day. Central Florida now where close to Boston population, transportation, or job opportunities

Fredster I concur.

May I add to your last line, not just look real hard to find it but WORK real hard to find it!

No need to demonize anyone cgilcreast. But it is still important for "people who don't live in poverty" to stop saying "just get a better job." Not everyone has that opportunity. Not everyone can. Even if you pulled yourself up by your bootstraps and sold widgets door to door until you scraped up enough money for your first widget store - that doesn't mean everyone can do that. Some people are just flat out not capable of it. Has nothing to do with laziness (though sure there are plenty of lazy people - including those who have inherited daddy's money and don't HAVE to work for a living).

And that's not even just retail. How much do you think the average produce-farm worker gets paid per hour? Do you think if they COULD do better, they probably would? If you think that's someone being lazy, I challenge you to try working for one some time. Spend 7 hours a day starting at 4 in the morning, hunched over on your knees pulling up cabbages.

Meanwhile, all those wealthier people get their services, and produce, and cereal, and underwear from - someone. Someone has to do all those low-paying jobs, because all those people who can afford to patronize those stores and companies, need someone to actually perform the tasks those people are paying for.

When you say "if you don't like a low paying job, get a better one" - well if everyone followed that advice, all of those places you spend your money at - will close. They would have no employees left to do all those things that customers need done.

So basically that kind of attitude is shooting yourself in the foot. You rely on low-paying low-skilled workers, whether you want to admit it or prefer to pretend it's not a HUGE part of your life.

The Villages is crawling through Central Florida at a pretty quick rate. And you're not seeing a whole lot of people moving to Central Florida in the hopes of getting a swanky gig at the local Target.

It is called the FREE MARKET.

On the other hand, there are many self-employed workers here who are pushing the limits of what they charge or think they can charge due to the population explosion. The last time we hired a company to trim our shrubs two men worked four hours. They charged $400, or $50 per man per hour. They started out working for us more reasonably at a property outside of TV a few years ago and we, in a sense, introduced them to the bonanza of TV.

I called a carpet cleaner we had used several times and asked what the charge would be to steam clean the tile floors only, without having to treat the grout. He replied $400. If he spent four hours running his machine around, and it shouldn't take that long, that's $100 per hour.

I realize that these people have overhead, mainly their vehicles, cell phones and a few tools, but those jobs are unskilled labor. My husband balked at the thought that they are earning more per hour than he did as a highly-skilled self-employed individual in a dangerous job.

Most thinking people do not move here in hopes of securing a job, and most people do not retire and move unless they are secure financially. Most people continue to work as long as it is needed to save enough money and see a secure means not to go under. If a person moves to another area before retirement age, without a substantial cushion, and without selling their home first, without enough money in the bank, I question their reasoning and if they struggle, I am not surprised.

I'm not talking about people moving to the Villages. This thread has *nothing* to do with people moving to the Villages.

It has to do with people living in the counties, towns, neighborhoods that surround the Villages. It has to do with the EMPLOYEES of all those stores, shops, services, food products, that you buy from, or consume.

I'm talking about the "support workers," not the CEOs or lawyers. I'm talking about the part-time receptionist at the local car dealership. Or the cashier at the supermarket. The oil-change employee at the gas station. The people who wash your car at the car-wash. Most of those people aren't Villagers. They are locals who live in the area.

If you need more of those people to support the population in the Villages - if you need more locals - NON-Villagers - to do the jobs you need done, because there are more Villagers that need things done - where will those non-villagers come from, if the jobs available are low-earning jobs?

Actually the OP's opening statement is about moving families here.

As far as this topic, when Walmart worries about finding new people, they'll quit opening new stores. Until then, I'll stick my head in the sand and enjoy The Villages and all that it offers. Happy Retirement!! I think I'll go see Joker today at the $5 movies.

How about we dial the calendar back about 20 or so years when TV population was 20,000 or less.

That timing would be before CR 466 was a 4 lane road....before Lake Sumter landing, Arnold Palmer CC, the Target and Kohls shopping centers, Home Depot and on and on and on.

Somehow as TV continued to grow significantly since then where did the thousands and thousands of new workers all come from? (Rhetorical question).

The above holds true for every sub metropolitan area that has grown and flourished during the current century!

And yes, those who work at serving by working at all these places have always earned less than the next economic group above them.

It seems in recent years with the advent of special interest groups getting undue attention that the issue of living wage and concern for the "poor" attempts to get to center stage.

I see politics as the main driver of the current 'Quest"!

In my humble opinion.

Just look at who owns the Orlando paper and what political party they push, then you will understand the reporting coming out concerning The Villages. Nuff said...

Bee-eye-en-gee-oh!!!

Jazuela,

I get it and for what it’s worth, I think TV is now “too big for its britches.” Various ratios are already out of sync.

But you are in debate here with what is mostly a narrow demographic whose perspective comes only from their own place and time in the big picture. Within that narrow perspective, there is a spectrum ranging from, “Such is Life” to “Let them eat cake.”

While I seem to be awash in a sea of old sayings this morning, I might as well throw in another one: “When you find yourself banging your head against a brick wall, it feels so good when you stop.”

Sincerely,
Boomer

G:clap2:reat job:a040: concerning the critique of the Orlando article.