Is connectivity to south of SR44 slipping again?
 

Today's Villages magazine insert shed greater uncertainty on when connectivity will happen between the north and south ends of The Villages. Many times what isn't said is just as important as what is said.

In the December 2018 edition connectivity was shown as January 2020, obviously over optimistic.

Earlier this year in one of the videos put out by The Villages it was stated that the May time-frame was the date for connectivity, now this appears questionable.

Looking at the insert that arrived this morning there are no dates mentioned only the statement "...next year you'll be able to travel by golf car through a network of bridges and tunnels that are under construction." (page 15). This makes the connectivity date vague at best. Also interesting to note is the date for when Magnolia Plaza will become a reality has now changed to "COMING SOON", (page 14 map) not a reassuring date.

Amazingly, if you drive to the Tailwinds area on CR466A, the Publix that is being built there if coming up very quickly and work there only started about 2 months ago, not 6 months ago like Magnolia Plaza. The differences are somewhat staggering to see.

As we close in on 3 years since the first homes were sold in Fenney I can't help but wonder about the level of frustration many are feeling in not just the slow progress at making the connectivity but also the complete lack of communications by the developer in keeping people informed. A press release with few paragraphs of facts and information, not the usual sales hype, in the newspaper would go a very long way in dispelling the rumors and misinformation that continues to fly about. As a privately owned company the developer is not obligated to say anything but the silence is becoming deafening.

The new areas are absolutely gorgeous and the amenities continue to get better than we've seen before with each new opening, and I've considered many times relocating there as I've watched the area grow and develop. I've learned to watch both hands of the magician as he performs his magic, here it's become harder to watch the non-show hand to get a good comfort level, and I'm just not there yet.

On a somewhat more positive note, the steel has started to arrive for the Chitty-Chatty bridge next to the Rohan so work should start soon on this 3rd bridge. One has to wonder though if it will just become another giant billboard for the next year.

In a few years I'm sure we'll all look back and say "Wow, that happened quick", but for now things seem to be stumbling along.

I've been wondering the same thing. I miss your drone videos! They reassured us that progress WAS in fact being made south of 44..

Do you think the Morse organization is financially over extended? The tax thing made me wonder.

It would be great if you could do another drone video starting at Brownwood and going south over the land where the golf cart path will eventually reside so we can see what progress has been made. Thanks.

We've been here since May, 2017 when there were very few people living here and everyone knew each other. We purchased our golf car in November of that year to ride around and watch all the growth that was going on not being concerned about tunnels or bridges to the north. I may be in the minority but I'm in no hurry to see the final connection to the areas north of 44 as I doubt that I'll go north more than one trip to Brownwood just to try it out. My concern is the possibility of overcrowding, it's already very busy down here which we expected to happen. I do welcome the Magnolia Plaza "coming soon" but it too is not on the top of my list as The Lake Deaton Plaza is only a few minutes away from us and it's very near to those living in Linden and Marsh Bend. What we really need are Primary Care Doctors that are not part of The Villages Health System, those of us having supplemental insurance can and do use their specialists but are not able to use their Primaries. There are a handful at Lake Sumter and they are very crowded, but most are north of 466. We also need the intersection of 468 and 301 to be completed. In a year or so all of the concerns will be met and everyone west of the Turnpike will be happy.

No need to wonder about frustration..............I've told to a lot of Southerners and no one of them are in a hurry for the connection. Not One.


I assume there might be a few wondering when.


But everyone I've talked to are very happy and did not "fall for the sales hype".


It's the Northerners trying to create frustration. Like most things in TV, a few pot-stir'rs try to create negativity.


:ho:

Not the Same !!!
 

Things today are NOT the same since Gary Morse left us. He built ALL the connections, GC paths, rec centers, etc... before the first home was constructed. You knew what was there before you purchased.
Today, the family is ONLY interested in building and selling homes.

The Villages is not what is used to be and I for one see the downfall beginning...

I don't agree with that. The scale of building has increased enormously but building and selling houses is what the Morse family does. Let's not start denigrating people for profitable business. Our nations economic health is based on that, not someone spending government money. (that ultimately comes out of all of our pockets)

I don't think the Morse family is without fault but neither are they malicious scammers. They years ago passed the standard of great wealth and own anything they might aspire to. They don't need more money. I just hope they are still all working together. Last years State of The Villages presentation at the Sharon didn't seem like all three were still as involved as they once were. Granted, even the Morse family keeps getting older, just like we do, and people have a right to retire.

So far it has been a wonderful success. I am hoping it will continue. I am rooting for that.

My biggest complaint is the work being done on Warm Springs Ave, aka 468. The changes are being done piece meal instead of doing it all at one time. It took a long time to get the intersection of 501 and Warms Springs completed. The work on widening the road to 4 lanes between 501 and 301 is still going on and it has been over a year. The new roundabout on the east side of the turnpike created another bottleneck and congestion, and now after months of that mess and it is completed, then they create another choke point by digging up the road for a golf cart tunnel. The slow pace of construction is uncalled for, they're digging in sand not blasing granite to build the roadway. I know it isn't all contractor's fault as the work is being done by the state, county, and whoever, but you would think some of these well paid decision makers would use a bit of common sense. As you can tell I'm getting pretty tired of detours and sand and debris on the roadway.

I had to recheck my tablet settings. I could have sworn I was logged onto the Villages hyphen News site, or the POA site. Things will be done when they get done. In the big scheme of things, looking back to how far the Villages have come since the beginning, progress has been very quick. Villagers down Fenney way don't seem to be worried like others are.

Since Gary ? How about when Harold left us. Just today we were reminded of Budweiser Clydesdales and real snow making machines at the Christmas Tree lightings when Harold was alive. They were in front of Katie Bells - remember that exclusive for members only club we considered our flagship. Free golf and Katie Bell's was the sales pitch. The early lifestyle visits included Katie Bell's dollars. People on here think we are so negative but they forget most are new here and have not experienced the changes. In 2003 when Harold passed population was around 30000. Today TV is approaching 140000. Like the old story goes I didn't know we were poor growing up until the government told me. Thus many of you are comparing the past to your hometowns, not here because you were not here. Harold was about the people. Sure he was a businessman and was in it to make money. However he loved the people, He did not live as an isolationist. Harold donated 1 million dollars of his own money to the then Villages corporation to build Spanish Springs Town Square because the corporation did not have the funds to do it as he saw what it deserved to be.

We are on the third generation of a family business. There's an old adage about that . Now I still haven't found a better place but seen many changes and each change seems to be more business oriented. Slogan was live like a millionaire on a retirement budget. I see signs of the class system raising it's ugly head. That won't be good for a "Friendly Hometown".

I have my own barometer of when to bail (I hope never). Watch the flower beds. When they stop changing them 3X per year it will be time to take the profits and run.

Again please don't tell me you are free to leave. I am fully aware of that and will when my barometer pegs. However I try to point out to newbies there is a history here and you should make a little effort to understand this new place you now call home.

What ever happened to judging a place simply by whether you like it or not...now.

Absolutely nothing. But that doesn't give one the right to shoot the messenger when their opinion is different. That was not an acquisition against you personally just a generalization. I also believe this TOTV is meant to be a place to share those opinions so one can see both sides and that includes if and when some of the glitter wears off. I often post the other side of a story even if I'm not an actual proponent of the point I'm trying to convey.

Hopefully not the beginning of a downfall but the game plan sure has changed. If it weren't for the strong history of The Villages success I would be leary as a new home buyer.

Here is a thought. Just because the 'third generation' decides to proceed in a different manner than previous, doesn't mean that they are doing wrong. Yes, they chose to build a lot of homes before the ammenities were created, but, many ammenites are now in place with others on the way.

I just don't get finding fault in so many things that are so insignificant. This is the best community there is. After all, many complain, few leave,

No I don't think financially they are over extended. I think the construction resources resources are being stretched to their limits. In the past they focused on one or two large areas in CDDs that were in the 1000-1500 acre ranges. Now there are at least 6 major construction areas in CDDs that are pushing 2500 acres, this spreads things quite thin for equipment and manpower for the contractors.

Don't forget that 3 years ago at this time they got a $350 Million cash infusion when the amenities north of SR44 were sold and they are about to get another $200 Million cash out from the sale of the utilities north of SR44. None of this is a bad thing as these were all built and invested in by the developer to support the community development and homes sales, but it's not their core business.

Taxes aren't really an issue, businesses don't pay taxes, never have, never will, they collect taxes and pass them along to the appropriate government body. Taxes are no different than labor and material, just another cost of the project that is rolled into the final price. We, the customer and end user, pay the taxes not the businesses, not The Villages, not Walmart, not McDonalds, just us in the end.

What we are seeing in the amenity-home gap is the result of a) the disconnected construction process, b) the Wildwood Springs acquisition, and c) the increase in green-space and amenities being included in the newer areas.

A & B are directly related. When Wildwood Springs was acquired it was already established as a CDD and development plans had been through the initial process of approvals. They were able to start construction work almost immediately. This was unlike the Cresswind property that appears to have been the next logical step that still needed to have a development plan and CDD formation approved. Because Wildwood Springs was disconnected from the rest of The Villages there was no natural progression and sharing of the amenity resources that had occurred in the past that made things seem seamless and already in place. Instead all new amenities had to be built at the same time as homes were being built which makes things appear backwards from the previous trends in The Villages. Basically they've been playing catch up for the last 3 years. With the Low Lands course and Water Lilly rec centers they appear to be back on track.

Wildwood Springs is now knows as the villages of Fenney and DeSoto. Cresswind is the areas south of Brownwood and adjacent to Lake Okahumpka that is currently under construction.

C is a contributing factor to the time it has taken to catch up with the amenity construction, there is more green-spaces/park like areas and the amenities are much larger and more elaborate that before and anywhere else in The Villages. Maintaining the natural areas that they have also has required longer roads to connect the more spread out areas.

Again, they've been playing catch up for a while now but they appear to be back ahead of the game now.

I completely disagree with your comment about the "family"'s interest. If you look at the approach they have been using the last few years you see a big shift towards both being more environmentally friendly and preserving of the natural areas you will see that this has come at a great cost of time, effort, and the number of homes being built. Hogeye Sink could have easily been backfilled and Hogeye creek been established in its place and many dozens of new homes built in its place. Instead this natural area as well as others have been preserved. This all comes at a cost. It also creates a more desirable community long term, they are actually investing in their and our futures with this greener approach to building. It's a different mindset than in the past and more in line with the values of those now and in the future retiring. This isn't the beginning of the end of The Villages, it is the beginning of a new era of The Villages.

Gracie I agree with you on all but one point, the scale of the building, in so far as the number of homes goes, has remained relatively constant over the last decade, the scale as far as acreage and number of sites has however definitely increased. As I stated in a previous post this scale increase in size and number of locations appears to have put a strain on the local construction resources.

It is amazing to see how short some people's memories can be. It was okay for them to work hard and be successful in their endeavors, this wasn't greed or arrogance, but when someone else does it (the developer) it is. This quickly translates to "I got mine, you can stop building now because you're being greedy". Capitalism is a wonderful system and is the reason we are all able to live here.

Hey folks the whole world has changed. As some so-called politician recently said "Get Used To It." Used to be 40cent gas and people who cleaned your car windows with a smile, 24c/pack cigarettes (I never smoked but I remember getting them for my dad in a machine with a quarter and having a penny stuck inside the wrapper). What is gained by telling new people how it was 30-40 years ago during the George Washington administration. You want things to be like they were 30-40 years ago? It's either ALL or NOTHING not just the things that you like. For the "oldies" I understand your reminiscence but for new people what do they care how it was 30-40 years ago (or whatever the "old days" here were). Sounds like a bunch of old folks wanting to go back to the 1920's because newspapers were only a penny. :D

The they in this case is us.....aren't the flowers part of or maintenance charge? Not that greedy Developer.

They are nowhere close to being back on track, no less ahead of the game if you are someone who values Championship Golf as an important amenity.

Goldwingnut, your above statement needs to be modified. As recently proven, taxes can either be rolled into the final price of the project, or they can be jamed down the throats of existing homeowners.

Yes, The Villages has grown quit a bit in the last 16 years since HS left us, but don't think this wasn't all a part of his plans. Watch this video The Building of Brownwood - Exciting Construction Plans - YouTube and they talk about the Brownwood location being known before any home was build south of CR466 (not CR466A). This significantly predates HS's death and without a doubt is clear that the current growth was greatly influenced by both HS and GM. They well knew in the late 90's that The Villages would grow beyond SR44 and farther south as we see it today. You don't invest $100+ million in a premier commercial district only to put it on the fringe of your target customers, you put it right smack in the middle of your customer base (as we are now seeing this to be true). If SR44 was to be the end of The Villages then Brownwood would have been built were the Truman and Roosevelt golf courses are located today.

Unfortunately, most good things usually come to an end, normally the demise is due to abuse. Katie Belles is a prime example of this, it wasn't a private and free attraction, it was a business and businesses have to make money to continue to be viable. The few times I went there for dinner there were a large number of people camping out there having an ice tea or water and taking up a table for hours on end, not spending any money and enjoying the free entertainment that was anything but free to the proprietor. They can't make money with this type of entitled abuse and they can't stay in business. Hence the change in business model. The country clubs suffer for the same syndrome, one has already closed its doors for the same reason, how many more will follow?

By the way, in the business world, it's called a $1 million investment not a donation.

One is a cost of doing business the other is poor government planning. The developer didn't do it, the county government did it. I'm not taking sides with the developer, I'm pointing out the fault where it belongs. Do you honestly think another $1000 added to the price of a house would have deterred any sales over the last decade?

Yes, we all got screwed because some in county government wanted to put a feather in their own hats and say "look at us, no tax increase for 14 years", now we all see that there were short sighted fool that didn't bother to look at their 5 year forecasts that are required every year. Repaving of roads just snuck up on them and the development they approved had cost to the county they chose to ignore until it was too late.

A Championship golf courses are NOT an amenity, they are a private business. They receive $0 from the amenity budget, they have to survive on their customer base alone. If you look at the numbers, it takes about 6500-7200 homes to support a championship course here in The Villages. Less than 3000 homes have been sold south of SR44. A championship course cannot survive without an adequate customer base, which still doesn't exist.

Most of the flowers costs are from the maintenance assessments, some come from the amenity fee, and some come from the commercial area maintenance fees, it just depends on the location.

The budgets show that the cost of the flowers and other plant change outs that happen 4 times a year is less than 25 cents per month per home of the average $500 annual maintenance fee that is paid by each.

I understand the courses are private businesses, but I consider the availability of Championship golf to be one of the most important draws of moving to the Villages. Harold built the golf first and then sold the homes around the golf course. The last course opened was Belle Glade, which was opened several years and several thousand new homes ago. The ratio of Championship golf courses to homes has been significantly diluted since then.

I have my own barometer of when to bail (I hope never). Watch the flower beds. When they stop changing them 3X per year it will be time to take the profits and run.



If I recall from the resident college course The Developer is responsible for maintenance and landscaping in the business districts. That would include all the common areas around each town square and all commercial areas like shopping centers, medical facilities, Waterfront Hotel, etc. That's still a lot of flowers. Been a long time since I took the course - how about you ?

They have started work on the Championship course.

Probably to boost the values of the houses being built with "golf course views". Who designs these layouts? Even the Lowlands executive course was designed to provide more lots with "golf course views". Boring course design for the sale of lots with "golf course views". Play 3 holes, then walk down to the next neighborhood. Play 3 more, then walk back to another neighborhood. Yes, things have changed, but still a great place to escape the snow and ice.

Or they have started the course because they need it there to be a flood plain of last resort to handle the storm water management needs created by the new development.

Now you specify which beds, makes a difference. Your sarcasm was not necessary...……………..\\


See post #26

So, your option....don't go down there and play.

It's on the other side of the Turnpike where there is no new development yet. Why are you being so negative? The south is the new Villages, lots of experiments going on down here, get used to it. We that live here are quite content and we don't live in the past reminiscing about how great Katie Belles use to be. If you don't care for the southern villages stay up north, no one is forcing it on you.

I wrote my post while post #26 was being posted thus I did not see it before I pushed the button. If you read post #26 I believe we are in agreement with each other. HH ?

When they were building around Lake Sumter you paid a premium for a "Peek-a-boo" golf course lot, meaning if you went outside and looked between two homes across the street you could see a little bit of fairway. When they started McClure full golf front lots were a steal, when they started Fenney private waterfront lots were under $50,000.00, stucco designer homes on water with pools were available for under $400,000.00. Everytime they start a new village there are bargains to be had. The executive courses down here are far from boring, you either see the glass half full or half empty.

The commercial CDDs have a slightly different structure for their maintenance assessments. SL is basically self sufficient in this respect while Brownwood is very similar to the residential CDDs and is the only one with a seat at the PWAC. The Brownwood commercial properties proper are maintained by the BWCDD but the common areas (the open areas, MMP, the golf cart traffic circle, etc.) fall under the project wide agreement. The other commercial properties like 466 I'm unsure of. The all make use of the volume buying power and clout by going through the District Purchasing Department.

In a given location such as around one of the neighborhood rec areas/pool/mail station you can easily have portions of the landscaping maintenance being paid for by the individual CDD, the amenity fund, and the Project Wide fund. Fortunately for residents this is all basically transparent to our enjoyment and is more of a back office exercise in cost allocations.

I go through the budgets for CDD10, PWF, and amenity funds every year with a fine tooth comb. The process we have is complex but it works very for our situation.

SUGGESTION GOLDWINGNUT _

Why don't you run for a political office here in The Villages???
I'd definitely vote for you !
:bigbow::bigbow::bigbow:

I agree, no one is forcing me to go to the Villages south. Unfortunately, the lack of Championship Golf south of 44 is forcing the southern villagers to go north to golf, making the courses more crowded and more difficult to get good t times during the busy season.

Hey! I’m a ‘Northerner’! How am I / are we trying to create frustration? We bought in July 2018. I just didn’t fall for their time line. Hopethe project is for finished soon for those that want to go north.