SpaceX vs NASA Culture
 

I have been following space launches since Al Shepard's Mercury flight. The difference between the culture of SpaceX and NASA (and Boeing) is obvious. NASA maintains the staid suit and tie operation. SpaceX introduces the casual dress, relaxed no frills atomosphere. The commentators at SpaceX are young, attractive smart people. Even the look of their spacesuits, capsule, gantry are forward looking. Trip to the pad in a Tesla X. Hopefully, this will be attractive to the next generation that wants to enter the industry, not only as an astronaut, but also on the technical side. SpaceX even has plans for deeper space exploration that differes from NASA.....exciting times ahead.

Tesla
 

I hope somebody puts a bug in Elon Musk's ear so he will give those two space travelers the 2 Tesla's they rode in out to the launch pad. Would be a super nice gesture.:coolsmiley::ho:

There's no doubt that Elon is a genius...in so many different ways.

Tesla's stock price, compared to profit, shows that the bet is on him personally...not so much on just his cars.

After seeing some of the things he's said of late however, he needs try and continue to attract the young smart people he's surrounded himself with, encourage their enthusiasm, but should guard against...getting in his own way with his mouth.

GO SpaceX! :thumbup:

I was watching the launch on ABC, channel 6. I loved it when someone asked the question What's the difference between this all being run by the US and the US partnering up with a private company. The answer was When you take the government out of the equation, things get done faster and less expensively.

Nasa of the 60 and 70"s is not the Nasa of today. Thankfully private enterprise is now leading the way

Going back to the early 1960s I remember the slide rules hung like six-guns on belts (I had a pocket sized one that had its own leather case with a clip on it to hold it in my shirt pocket) and plastic pocket protectors because the ball point pens leaked in those days. Most engineers could be identified at first sight. Short sleeved white shirts, thin dark neckties.

Except in boeings case

Agree with the post
 

Private sector can do it less expensive and faster than the Government, example is the post office versus UPS or Fedex both of these are more efficient and timely versus the bloated and inefficient post office.

I found the female announcer's over the top excitement about every little thing annoying.

Also loved the visuals and audio of Bob and Doug during the preflight and after takeoff. A big difference is how public it all was and how beautifully smooth and clear the video footage was. So proud of Elon. What a BRIGHT light.

Of course you did!!!

Shipping packages for the average citizen using the USPS is a lot cheaper than shipping with either UPS or FedEx.
The USPS will Also deliver a first class letter mailed in Florida addressed to Alaska for 55 cents.
Any guess what UPS would charge if they ran the postal service?

NASA awarded a $2.6 billion dollar contract to Space X for the development of the Crew Dragon in 2014. Public and private sector working together.

SpaceX launches new era of spaceflight with company's first crewed
mission

I thought it was refreshing to see someone excited about something positive for a change. She, along with her generation are our future. Having younger people excited about space travel has been missing for many years.

Nice thread. and Space X works to contain cost.
 

Nice thread. And being a private company always working to control costs, Space X re-uses boosters if possible instead of NASA always dumping into the ocean. Difference is tax dollar funding (ours) versus trying to get a return on investment. Take a look at NASA new SLS program which is multiples over budget and months if not years behind schedule.

SpaceX does a great job now, but I could tell you stories from when they started and how they work now. Worked at the Cape. Remember it’s easier to do things the second time and learn from the mistakes of the past.

Women!
 

SO NICE to see so many women on the broadcast! Finally something to be proud of 🇺🇸🇺🇸

Oh please! The post office being compared with NASA? That is a false equivalency. If our government invested in post office we would have a competitor that wound compete with FEDEX and UPS. Our government systematically crushed the USPS with unreasonable regulations and pension pay regulations. The lobbyists for private mail and package Delivery, working with government, are to blame.

Jay Leno and Elon Musk inside the new Cypertruck

https://postmediadriving.files.wordp...0&h=370&crop=1

The new Cypertruck

https://www.supercars.net/blog/wp-co...2.04.14-PM.png

Elon Musk has a company called the Boring Company. They can build large round underground tunnels which he plans to build in California so Telsa's can bypass traffic. Jay Leno drives the Cypertruck through a mile long Boring Tunnel at the factory.

https://www.carscoops.com/wp-content...k-1024x555.jpg

Melbourne, Florida Charging Station

https://imagez.tmz.com/image/e0/o/20...bd20e11_md.jpg

Elon Musk outside waiting on the burgers

https://img.particlenews.com/image.p...oVY_0PBR6IRT00

I've seen more Elon Musk this week than I have ever before combined, I got to know more about him, which was good. I watch Jay Leno's Garage Show on CNBC every week since that show started about 5 years ago. This past Wednesday's show was at the Telsa Company, filmed last November. The new Telsa cars have model names such as S, E, X, Y, you should be able to figure out why those letters were chosen.

He has a new Cypertruck, shown above, it's stainless steel and windows are bulletproof, no particular reason, just because he could. Unlike most prototypes that look nothing like the eventual car, he wants his prototypes to like the real thing. The truck is basically ready for production except he will shrink it 5% all over so it will fit in the average garage. On the back, the bed is covered by a motorized roll down top, to protect the cargo. It's also strong, when Jay asked how strong it was, Alon got up on the cover and it held.

The new cars look fantastic, they fast, he has one model that will sell for $200,000 but it will go 0-60 in 1.9 seconds. It fact it will have a rocket thruster like James Bond. The license plate will fold down and a rocket thruster will be available.

Last week when the original launch at the Cape was cancelled, later that day he was spotted at Five Guy in Melbourne. I was watching Fox 35 local news that night and they had a crew go there. Apparently it has the closest Tesla Charging station, so Elon and his entourage showed up to charge their cars and while waiting they went to Five Guys, look like he had about five cars. Elon stayed outside and talked with a crowd that quickly gathered and stood for photos, while his entourage went inside to order burgers to go.

Entourage ordering burgers, everybody wears the same black suit like Elon and looks like they've got bulletproof vests on.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZI05OhWoAAqBQ1.jpg

True but ups and fed ex took away the package delivery business from the post office by being more efficient.

Now the post office must be losing a fortune delivering packages for Amazon.

Amen!!! I’ve said for years private enterprise needs to take over the post office. More efficient with less loafers!

Well, I worked for NASA in Houston from 1972-1977 and I wore a tie only a few times—primarily for important presentations. Managers wore ties most of the time, but not the regular engineers. NASA had the same excited young engineers that SpaceX does. I was there during Shuttle development, but got to see the last Moon mission, Apollo/Soyuz, Skylab, and the Enterprise drop test for the Shuttle program. We got just as excited as SpaceX does.

What follows is my personal opinion of what have been the problems with NASA.

I think the problem with blown schedules and cost overruns was due to working with the military industrial complex, which has been screwing the government for many decades. They knew NASA and the military couldn’t exist without them and got away with as much as they could. The people at NASA hated them.

I left NASA to go into business with my best friend, but it didn’t work out. I hated Houston, so I got a job with Martin Marietta in Denver. While working there on a NASA project, several pilots came to fly the simulator I was working on. One I had worked closely with at NASA recognized me. He pulled me aside and asked why I was “working for the bad guys.” I told him my loyalties were still with NASA. This was a common attitude. Everyone hated Rockwell International and were bitter that they were picked as the prime contractor for the Shuttle. Apparently, it was a political decision, because they had the worst design AND worst track record (remember Apollo 1 and Apollo 13?).

The problem isn’t that SpaceX is more efficient than NASA. The problem is that NASA is saddled with Congress and their desire to bring jobs—even unnecessary ones—to their districts. And of course those jobs go to the old-guard aerospace companies who have been bribing them for decades. And those companies know they can get away with anything. The whims of Congress also means funds are not dependable.

So, an upstart company with a Silicon Valley attitude comes along and decides they want to go to Mars. They don’t own Congress and have to prove themselves to get anywhere. They win over the hearts and minds of the American public and so Congress is forced to play ball with them. They grudgingly allow SpaceX to get one of the contracts for Commercial Crew. The old-guard influence still results in Boeing getting a lot more money to do the job than SpaceX ($4.2B vs $2.6B). And guess what. SpaceX got to the ISS first. They had something to prove and they risked their company to make it happen. You can bet Boeing didn’t risk their company. They knew NASA and the military can’t live without them and so they didn’t have to try harder.

So, don’t blame NASA for our past space woes. Blame congress and the military industrial complex that owns them and offers members cushy jobs when they leave congress.

Also, don’t blame the USPS for their problems. Congress won’t let them run their operation in a realistic way. They can’t set their own rates and they were saddled with unnecessary rules regarding setting aside unnecessary funds. Blame the congress that has been trying to kill them for a long time. If you turn the USPS duties over to a private company, you won’t be getting mail six days a week and people in rural areas will have to drive long distances to get mail. Tell me, is it more efficient for every farmer to drive to town every day for mail than to have one letter carrier drive from farm to farm?

The aerospace contractors make money on every booster the build. Why would they want to let NASA reuse the old ones? I’m sure they told NASA that reuse was impossible for many years. Building single-use boosters creates jobs in congressional districts and big profits for the manufacturers.

So not true. The 2006 Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act made it illegal for USPS to price parcel delivery below its cost.

Whatever it would take to not lose Billion$ every year...

Like all government ran programs. The have 5 people managing 1 guy doing the job. And the guy actually doing the work is the less paid.

USPS has too many managers and not enough workers. Been that way for 60 years. What you get in federal government.

When I first started working for the state of Tennessee I went around meeting the people working there. I approached an employee reading a paperback book and found out she was an admin assistant to a person she pointed out to me. I asked what that person did and was told she was the admin assistant to another person who was the admin assistant to the assistant to one of the second tier commissioners.

In Nashville, TN there are 3 major interstates the run through town, I24, I65 and I40, the traffic is horrible. Almost 20 years ago the state started making plans to build a loop around the city to get the interstate travel out of the bottleneck in the city. TDOT did a great job of planning a route that was the most economical to develop the loop. Well the state legislators and county mayors wanted the loop to pass through their district so as to open up economic development for these smaller counties. By the time they got done deciding where the loop needed to go to satisfy the legislators it wasn't a loop any longer, it looked like a bunch of dog legs joined together which naturally increased the cost of building it and significantly delayed and increased the time to build it. The loop still isn't completed and likely won't be for another couple decades.

I remember the images of the command center for the Mercury and Apollo era flights: guys in suits and ties sitting around a massive control room, watching CRT monitors set into custom built stainless steel consoles which included the obligatory for the time ash trays.

I also remember the control center for the early SpaceX flights: a bunch of (relative) kids in tee shirts sitting in a warehouse watching laptops which were set up on picnic tables. No custom fabrication here: instead, just buy your control center at the local Wal-Mart.

It's a small but significant difference which when multiplied over hundreds or thousands of such small but significant differences helps explain how NASA working with SpaceX is able to accomplish so much more for so much less than NASA working with old-space cost-plus contractors.

This is off of Twitter so not sure how well this will copy. But funny for those of us that remember another Bob and Doug.

https://twitter.com/FrankCaliendo/status/1266833770579062784/video/1

I can save new readers some time.....

This thread is about the post office and whether you think it’s good or bad. I know what you’re thinking. But don’t feel bad I fell for it too and thought it was about SpaceX.
:1rotfl::boxing2::1rotfl:

Thank you so much for your post. Learned a lot.

Sad but very very true

Private industry usually works. As far as USPS being cheaper than UPS and FEDEX, of course, it’s a govt business that ALWAYS runs at a loss kept afloat by taxpayers money.
From fiscal year (FY) 2007 through FY 2018, the USPS’s net losses totaled $69 billion. The USPS announced in its fourth quarter financial statement that in FY 2019, it ran an $8.8 billion deficit, a 125 percent increase compared to FY 2018. This marks 13 years of consecutive losses for the USPS, totaling $77.8 billion.
As far as the other big two delivering first class mail, not allowed by law. And both run at huge annual profits in the billions.
Bottom line ... if USPS had to run as a legitimate business, how much do you think their rates would go up? Would you invest your money in in a company with that kind of loss? USPS does a great job at what it does but nowhere could they compete IF they had to make a profit without govt funds. Just my opinion.

To be more accurate(IMO), this post is more about private sector vs govt managed program(s). And Windguy pretty much nailed it. But to add to that, he was certainly correct about the military industrial complex. But, I also fault Congress(et al) on that one. The military, like many other govt entities, merely spends whatever they're given, without alot of regard to savings. Except, when they realize they need to work within theirs means, which is why the military has been trying to save money by closing/consolidating bases(i.e. BRAC). Many of those bases were built during the early/mid 1900s, and are totally un-needed. But, Congress won't let them, as it will hurt their home districts and jobs! Because, that's what it's all about. And, as a retired Fed Civ Service(and military), I can tell you first hand, how inefficient it gets when govt steps in. The salaries and benefits are quite generous(as were mine). I did everything I could to earn my way, but I witnessed people constantly leaving for better fed jobs("downtown"), which paid even more, with very little responsibility. There were and are GREAT people working for the govt. But, in comparison to private sector, which has to constantly look at the bottom dollar, the efficiencies just don't compare. Regardless, there is/always will be a role that must be ran by the govt. And, well, nothing will get resolved here on ToTV, either. Cheers!

I noticed how much time has moved on, since Apollo and Shuttle days. A few minutes before launch, the flight controller came on the voice net, and reminded everyone, that if there was a fire alarm during launch, designated people were to stay at their posts, all others evacuate the building. We now live in a health & safety culture. Sometimes good, sometimes bad.

In defence of NASA. Don’t know if this applies to contractors. Anything that is invented by NASA is not patented. The argument goes, that the US tax payer, already paid to fund NASA, they shouldn’t have to pay again to use what NASA invents.

Off NASA Subject Response on Post Office
 

Most of us really like the US Post Office. Note they deliver mail not just packages, they are cheaper and faster for some packages, more expensive and slower for others but competitive, they don't cheat their workers (compensation or healthcare), they are forced by D.C. to fund retirement more than anyone else in the country. They are having a problem now (like others due to COVID-19) but we still want to get our mail. Don't use USPS if you don't want to but please get your facts straight and don't act against the rest of us who like getting our mail.

Excellent analysis

NASA does patent its inventions but it also freely licenses them. Patent Portfolio