Information on solar panels
 

Does anyone know anything about solar panels? Good idea? Bad idea? Would they blow away in a hurricane? Do they really save on electric bills?

We had considered it but several neighbors have it and the payback is on the side of it might be longer than we have to walk this planet.

In my opinion, it is a bad idea. It will not save you money on a life cycle basis because the payback period will probably be 15 years or longer. Also, it may increase the cost to replace the shingles on your roof. And, they may make it harder to sell your house because some people don't want them.

There were several threads on this subject, the general opinion was fairly long payback, and do not get involved with any of the leasing options.

I'm the poster that has a whole house electricity monitor, arguably with millions upon millions of data points on a designer, all electric home, the most informed about electricity consumption here.

I can say without a doubt solar panels do not make economic sense, under current prices and laws, for a couple in the Villages.

It is not that solar isn't noble or will Generate zero electric bills. It is how, when and how much solar is generated. You would generate more at solar noon than you consume, and sell to the utility at wholesale (approx 7 cents a kwh). But buy it at night or non peak hours at 11.7 cents (retail).

When we were looking to purchase a house very end of last year met a fellow who had solar panels and claimed he was breaking even on electricity.

He did say he got a great deal in purchasing the panels.

Any chance he was on the level?

The panels can supply all your electric if you install enough panels, lets say 33. For Duke you generate power in the day and send the excess to Duke and they nicely return it to you at night at no charge. At the end of the year (Dec.) if you have excess power they pay you at I think the whole sale rate (very low rate). You start all over in Jan so you could have a small bill that month, but again it depends on the number of panels and how much sun you get for the month. Duke also charges you about $10 a month but this can be paid from the electric you use. (Note when Duke's power goes out your panels stop producing for safety reasons.)

Payback is long and if you are doing this just to make money you probably wan to forget it.

One way to look at it is what you can earn on the money you would spend on solar if you put the money in the bank and used the interest to pay your electric bill. Remember to add in taxes on the interest income. You will have to estimate rising electric rates. Lets say after tax rebates the system cost you 20,000 (probably a little higher) and supplies 100% of your electric. Lets say you spend 1200 a year now on electric. That means your 20,000 has to earn about 6% plus maybe 0.25% to cover taxes. You won't do that in a save investment. Thus you could look at investing 20,000 in solar and you never get it back (but you had no electric bills) vs say putting 60,000 in a 2% bond and leaving the bond in your estate. Its your choice. By the way if you assume a 20 year life for the panels and the 1200 per year does not increase you saved 24,000 in electric bills. This is just a way you might look at return and naturally you have to put real life numbers into your analysis. I would also add an estimate for removal and replacement when you put a new roof on and you may have some maintenance expense.

I’m not totally up to date on Florida state laws pertaining to solar but I do know they are anti solar. Gotta protect those fossil fuel companies. To much pay back to politians. One gentleman suggested that you pay $1200 a year in electric bills. I find $100 a month hard to believe. I live in Hawaii. Here the state is very pro solar I guess being we have the highest electric rates in the country. With that being said we put solar on our house. 18 panels cost just about $18,000. The state gave us $5,000 and the federal $7500. So the panels cost us just about $6,000. My electric bills are now $10 a month. And that’s an all electric house.

My electric bill last month was $78, and about $1100 for the past year. Hawaii may have given you $5000, but I think that was a tax credit. Since Florida doesn't have an income tax, there would be no benefit to a tax credit. The current Federal tax credit is 26 percent, but in 2022, it will be zero. When solar contractors and independent solar panel proponents calculate the payback period for solar panels, they assume that the initial cost to buy the system has no investment value. So, essentially, if you save $20,000 but not installing a solar system, they assume that you will put that money under your mattress for 20 years or so.

In a few words this isn't Hawaii. Electricity is 65 to 75% less, there are no state incentives. There is not the solar competition here that Hawaii has

This is but one example why you can leave what you know from your home state behind. It is not New Jersey either.

Having worked at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory for 35 years, I am very pro solar and wind. However, I have done nothing here because the laws here truly are pro fossil fuels. When I need a new roof, I may get solar roof tiles and a battery if the prices continue to drop as they have been. Just because something is not economical today doesn't mean it won't be in our lifetimes.

Think about the fact that the utility unfairly pays you wholesale prices for your excess. Well, you might think, a power plant gets wholesale. What's the difference? Well, the energy from the power plant must go through an expensive distribution system to get to your house and there are losses along the way. If you generate excess electricity, it goes to your next door neighbor and costs the utility nothing. That doesn't seem fair to me. Also, when you are generating excess energy, it's during the heat of the day (sunny!) when demand is high. The utility should pay you more to sell during peak usage than at other times.

If you have an electric car, you should charge it at night when demand is low and pay low rates. If your car holds more than you will use in a day, you could partially discharge your battery into the grid at peak times and sell it at premium prices. You could make money that way. Tesla supposedly has written the software to do it, but has not yet enabled it.

But, the fossil-fuel industry doesn't want this to happen and they exert great pressure on politicians to keep it that way.

I would also toss out this friendly notice not to take general statements like my bill is Xx.Xx as a representative bill unless you get a true base line, like My bill is Xx.xx, I like keeping my A/C at 78 degrees, I am single, and my home is 1100 sq ft.

It’d be nice to hear from people who live here that actually have PV panels installed, and get their feedback and opinions. Data points, speculation and hearsay are all wonderful, but let’s hear from some actual owners/users.

I gave a talk at NREL about 15 years ago. What a great facility and great location. I enjoyed my interaction with the fine people working there.

I have worked in the parallel Generation area from the utility side, and directly with many people from NREL, the points above are very valid, Florida is NOT solar friendly. I helped write the standards that are used for this equipment. I came from PA which is a deregulated state, and is much more solar friendly.

Also as noted above do NOT trust any salesmans pitch about solar. If you cannot make your own independent analysis of the overall costs, call your financial advisor (or someone you trust) to help with an independent review of the actual costs. All of my analysis indicates a 20+ year payback if I buy the panels myself, and no payback for leased arrangements.

Make sure you include the annual maintenance costs (occasional cleaning), repairs, removal for roof replacement (roof 15 to 20 years, solar 25 years+), battery replacements if you go that route, inverter failures, etc.

I have run the numbers a couple of times and most recently came up with a payback period of about 10 years. The problem is solar panels are still experiencing deflation plus the lost opportunity costs of the money makes it a hard sell. If your decision is not driven by finances then you should go for it.

Wow! Thanks to all of you. Your answers were terrific and most informative! I think you talked me out of it but I’m certainly more informed than I was before this discussion.

Solar
 

Greetings,

I have recently (late 2019) installed solar in my 2 bed patio villa. (Tesla) which did an amazing job out of Orlando. my home mostly natural gas (AC, Fridge, Spa * on electric) so I needed a smaller system 14 panels and a battery. - fabulous! I suggest do your own research and you can start at Tesla's Website-
*Tesla Vehicle , Lithium Cart and bikes (included) essentially living on the sun.
The Tesla system is far superior to the rest (read below) and has an automatic switch- meaning off grid within a nano second you're moved to battery (power loss is a thing of the past)

In my northern home* Tesla doesn't service this far north and I have a 29 panel SUNPOWER system with SONNEN battery 2018 (same home design, larger but mostly natural gas) it sheds winter snow like a metal roof- FUN! The Sunpower system has a mechanical switch so when the power goes out it's a 2 minute switch (automatic still but dated tech) *was featured in green energy magazine

Both systems have tempered glass panels (no plastics) and massive 20-25 yr warranty

It works great for a snow bird, as both homes make power 12 months and I'm using each home for 6 months. The system builds credits and yes - no bill or small 'connection' 10 fee monthly.

# 1 I did it to be more self sufficient (off grid)
# 2 The northern states can lose power for weeks in a brutal ice storm (a generator needs to be ON to power a single device- solar battery only needs the sun to rise)
# 3 The cost was third to me..money in the bank isn't going to help with staying warm on day 12 of power loss at -20 degree temps. The fire department distributing flyers of open shelters was enough for me to think solar/battery. :MOJE_whot:

Solar panels
 

I have nine panels on my roof and it has reduced my bill about 40%.

it appears that, given the avg age of residents, the objective decision would be $ driven therefore its not worth it - subjective decision is feel good
i'm unclear about fl being 'solar friendly' - does that mean tax credits ? if so, then those who refrain from solar would be, in effect, subsidizing those who engage - much as the tesla - who pays for free charging stations in various mall parking lots ? all shoppers pay

My Wife and I used to live in TV. We checked out a location close to TV, called Green Keys. All of their homes are totally powered by solar panels.
Go out and talk to owners, they will probably share information with you.
Good luck in your search for information!

Which car charging stations have you seen that are free? Most of the ones I've seen require credit card or a debit type of card to use.

Tesla superchargers are no cost for many Model S and Model X owners. The policy has morphed several times over the past several years. They recently announced they are eliminating free supercharging for new Model S and Model X customers. Model 3 and Model Y owners pay for supercharging but may have received some free supercharging for referrals. Their rates are about 2x normal electric rates in FL.

Hi, I moved to TV last year and installed a new solar system in November. I'd be glad to give you a tour and answer any questions you may have.
The bottom line is that my payback will be approximately 10 years. Some people think that is too long and everything is about a quick payback. I heartily disagree.
I power my home, my pool, my car and even my golf cart with the energy of the sun.
One person can't change the path we're on, but I'm doing my part and that's what we can do.

Feel free to message me and thank you for asking the question

Not much savings
 

I have nine panels on my roof in the villages. My bill averaged about $35/mo for the last four months. My house is 1880 sq. I keep the A/C at 75*. I have a gas stove and gas heat. Electric dryer and oven. My savings is about 40%.
Do the math.

While solar panels may not pay off for you, one thing that WILL pay off, if you haven’t done it yet, is to replace your light bulbs with LEDs, especially if you have lights you leave on for hours per day. You can your lighting cost up to 90%. The LED might cost you a couple hundred for the entire house, but you will make that up in a year, probably. Get the color balance that is right for you. I usually get warmer lights. Get dimmer LEDs if the light is on a dimmer switch. Get three-way LEDs if your light use three-way bulbs. Get natural sunlight LEDs for your garage, as the light is more accurate. If you use those for your bathroom, though, you might feel that you have suddenly aged.

Solars
 

We here in Pine Hills checked out Solar last year. Would make sense in the long run , but as many have said - Florida is still in tune with 'fossil fuel' industry. You also need a symbiotic relationship with your 'local' electric provider; that wasn't possible with City of Leesburg. Maybe the whole development south of Rte 44 could have been set up solar after having discussions with standard electric providers. Lot of states are doing it.

I had solar panels installed in 2015. Added panels in 2016. I have 39 panels. I have service from SECO energy in Sumter County. My bills pre-2015 were in the $100 to $250 range across the year. Current monthly runs around $30 to 55. My system makes around 12.9 Mwh per year. Call Jack’s Solar of Ustis for current costs. You can do the math from there to figure if it’s right for you. Saves around 8 tons of Co2 per yr. SMA of Germany/USA makes the equipment and supplies the computer interface. They have great customer help. If your interested let me know for further info.

Also, when you get a new roof, you have to pay to have them removed and then reinstalled.

The shingles under the panels never need replaced. (UV kills shingles) the solar array protects from UV , thus you need to only feather the new shingles around the array.

We live in Indiana and for us it is simply an investment in being prepared and semi self-sufficient. Yes, power outages are relatively infrequent but could be worse.

With a large farm population near us and a personal garden we can survive a food apocalypse in the short term but in a major emergency if there was a power apocalypse only those with solar and battery storage have a backup plan in place.

We are not preppers, just retired and trying to avoid a disruption to our regular day to day lives.

Also, don't forget the bulbs in your lamp post if it is on a light sensor so it burns all night. A surprisingly large amount of power is consumed if they are incandescent bulbs.

I had them on my vacation home in NY. they were great but we bought them direct and had them installed by relatives. it was a lot less expensive. there where 2 options in NY purchase outright and lease. DO NOT LEASE

I have found that the benefits analysis from a couple of solar vendor, to be pretty accurate ... if the cost of say 30 panels, as was suggested, was $6000 - I do it in a heartbeat !! ... unfortunately it is not !!

Solar does not pay the bills
 

Personal experience:
Don't waste your time or money. Payback (if any) is miserably slow. There is not enough real estate on your roof to generate the power you need. Those with a small farm that can dedicate several acres to solar panels might have better results. Also, something not well publicized by solar companies ... the panels degrade over time and the voltage output drops precipitously. In 20 years, they are trash for the landfill. If you do decide to put them on your roof, get it in writing that the solar company will remove them (and reinstall them) at no cost should you need a roof replacement down the road. That is another surprise cost to some people.

Had a neighbor who invested $23,000 in solar panels while drooling over the idea of his electric meter running backwards (per the sales guy). He generated less than $25/month of electricity. That's a negative payback. Ignoring interest, it would take 76 years to get his money back. Solar panels don't last that long. The interest on his loan cost more than he saved resulting in a net monthly loss.

I think you're better off attaching small generators to couple million gerbil and hamster cages and just let them go at it.

Solar water heaters for you pool are a different technology. Don't confuse them. Solar panels that generate electricity are what we're discussing here.

I have solar panels and am happy with them. Don't really want to spend time arguing with those that do not but feel free to Private Message me to discuss the details.There are many pros and cons and you have to look at your situation.

Solar sounds great; reality has not been very good. Graveyard of companies in the business - especially for residential use. A few reasons why: a) animals (squirrels, birds, etc.) get in underneath the panels and cause issues, b) they often result in a leaky roof - and have to be totally torn off to replace the roof - very expensive, c) challenges when extreme wind. The ONLY system I'm aware of from friends that remain in the business is from GAF. The reason is that the solar panels ARE THE ROOF TOO -- so they don't experience the issues most all other systems have. Hope that helps.

There are too many errors in this post to ignore, everything depends on your situation.

Had Solar in CA
 

We had solar on a house in California. It was 'net metering' and was on a lease/purchase plan. Cost nothing to install and we were charged based on monthly production of the panels. I believe we paid .18 per kwh and CA utilities were on a tier system with lowest of .16 per kwh quickly jumping to .25 per kwh and then .31 per kwh. We found the system did save money every month. Total monthly went from about $250 to about $220. Hardley worth it. Florida's rates are somwhere aroud .12 per kwh which makes solar of this type not worth it here.

We also had a lot of trouble when we went to sell that property because of the solar.

I would not do solar again unless it was the only option I had.

From what I understand, it would take 20 to 25 years for them to pay for themselves. There is a lot of information on the web but it will take some work with a spreadsheet to make sense of it all. To start, consult you electric bill to find you max usage.