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Lien law
Has anyone heard of this???
You know the old saying.... BUYER BEWARE..... We just had pavers installed by a VERY reputable company, and 2 weeks after the job was done, one of the workers from the job knocked on our door and handed my husband a letter..... stating he was contacting his attorney due to non-payment for his services from the contractor. The Lien Law, in effect, states that the end user (my husband and I) can be liable for payment to the worker if the contractor does not pay him for services performed.... Excuse me, but we already paid over $7,000 for the job, which included all materials and labor, and why should I be responsible to pay the man's salary for the day again??? I contacted the owner of the company, and he told me not to worry, he had everything under control...the worker was fired, and we would not be responsible for any money. I asked for a letter stating I was not liable for any further costs due to him or anyone else. I am putting my faith in him that this is resolved to our satisfaction... I contacted Joe Gorman, president of the Villages Homeowners Association, and I was told I needed to get a "Waiver of Lien" from the contractor, and it is a good idea to get this for ANY job a homeowner contracts, especially if the company uses sub-contractors!!! I also contacted Marlene O'Toole, our Florida Legislator, and she did indeed say we had to be aware of the Lien Law, and to protect yourself, always get a waiver of lien from the contractor. She also suggested that I contact a lawyer and show them paperwork I received from the company owner, including my (belated) waiver of lien. She also said I should monitor that the disgrunteled worker does not put a lien on our home in the future, and this could be done, even if he may have been paid.... The pavers came out beyond gorgeous, but I hope they are worth the aggrevation that came along with them.... Just wanted everyone to be aware of this and not to get burned in the future!!! :swear: |
Wow, very interesting. I predict that this will be an interesting thread.
Thanks for the info. |
Until your post I have never heard of the lien law. After some 'googling', I now know of the law, but I am racking my brain how this law makes any sense, although when you combine a strong construction lobby and a possibly unscrupulous legislative branch, I should not be surprised.
Maybe others will explain how the contractor is not solely responsible here? I also found this article: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...bcontractors/2 An excerpt from the article describes how even having a release of lien does not keep you out of court. "We paid him in three installments with one-third upfront," said Dennis Warren, association president. "He completed the job, and it looked fantastic. We made final payment and he gave us a lien release certifying that the job was complete, he was paid in full, and no liens would be placed on the property."I have luckily never had this happen to me or anyone I know, but will certainly ask more questions next time. I hope all works out well for you... |
The following link explains the Florida Construction Lien Law.
http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr...a_lien_law.pdf |
Are you aware that thye "Lien Law" also applies to your purchase of a new house in the villages????? When we went to settlement I asked for (and received) a notarized statement signed off by all subcontractors who worked on our house/lot, stating that all payments had been satisfied in conjunction with the construction of our new home and no liens now or in the future would be place on the property.
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Joe Gorman is President of the Property Owners Association (POA) and not the VHA. |
Very good thing to know. Thanks.
Our friends in Rainbow Springs had a solar heater added to their pool and paid in full at completion. Two years later, they did a title search and found that the company had placed a lien against their home, the DAY the contract was signed, and was never released when they were paid in full at completion. They did not know that a lien had been filed. If they had died, their heirs would have probably paid the contractor again! |
"Lien laws" are pretty common throughout the U.S. It is crucial to get releases from subs and suppliers when purchasing a new home or having major construction done. Title insurance will usually protect you in a home purchase but only if the lien has already been filed, just not served.
No, it's not fair that the end user has to pay twice for one thing, but is it fair that the subcontractor or employee or whomever be stuck with the bill because the end user hired a contractor who took the money but didn't pay his people? It is a case of buyer beware -- you hired the contractor, you're responsible for his actions on your job. |
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They should be responsible for protecting themselves since they chose to work that contractor just like I did. These laws are antiquated and should be changed. |
If the contractor had a license aproved by the city/county sue them for allowing a crook to operate under their approval.
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Since your general said all was paid for, and this was a disgruntled worker, i would...
Get a lien release from the general, which says he paid all subs, etc. Banks often require this on a new house or major construction. Should be able to get a blank copy online or from your bank. I would also read the florida closely that floyd posted. |
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BTW -- Getting the contractor to sign a release is meaningless in most states. It is the subs that need to sign off. Not sure what you do for employees -- they're usually covered under labor laws, not contract laws. |
Is there a web site where one can find out if there is a lien against a property?
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This used to happen all the time in S. Florida with people getting swimming pools built, or additions to their house. This is one law I'd lilke to see changed.
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See if the county where you live has court records available online. You can find mechanic liens for real estate filed with the clerk of the county court where your home is located. Here is the link for Lake County Circuit Court records. I believe the code for liens is LN. Put in your name and LN. http://lakecountyclerk.org/wb_or1/or_sch_1.asp Here are Marion and Sumter counties public court records. I think liens would be filed with Circuit Court. http://www.marioncountyclerk.org/public/ https://www2.myfloridacounty.com/ccm/?county=60 |
Thanks for the website about the lien info, as I want to keep checking on that. Tomorrow we have our appointment with our lawyer to get our wills updated, and we plan on discussing this issue with him. I will update when we are done.
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It was very kind of you to post this to help others avoid a similar problem. I am a little confused about what happened in this instance. The contractor said the "worker was fired". Was the person who knocked on your door a subcontractor or an employee of the contractor? I thought lien laws applied to subs and suppliers, not employees. It also was unclear from your post whether the contractor claimed to have paid the worker. Also, it sounds a bit fishy to me that, rather than filing a lien, the worker (ex-employee?) knocked on your door and handed you a letter threatening to file one. You couldn't possibly know when he knocked whether he even had been paid. What did he expect you to do-- take out your wallet. Do you still have the letter? If so, and it turns out he was paid through the end of his employment, I would turn the letter over to police and have him arrested for attempted theft before he has a chance to scare another senior into giving him money. |
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We use the lien law all the time.. It is a must.. Just about all the companies we deal with will use it. But there are time limits that also have to be applied. You have like 45 days from the date of work to file the NTO "Notice to Owner" paperwork. We usually file it right away so the homeowner gets the notice and can make sure the contractor pays his people and suppliers. The homeowner in return or contractor would then need for us to sign a release of lien. It is not only the small contractors like the company doing the paving job, but there are a few BIG companies right here in this area that will not pay their bills, so you have no other choice but to file it. Once it is filed and copies sent to the financial instituion, they can not get any more draws on a project with out the release of lien. It has saved us alot. I have had home owners call and yell wanting to know what this is about. Once it is explained they understand they need to check out who they are hiring and the reputation of the said company. If you hire some Joe off the street to do a job and price sounds to good, chances are something is rotten in denmark, if you know what I mean.
While yes I agree, why should anyone have to pay for a job twice, it is up to the homeowner to know who they hired and who they are contracting to do the job. And yes the lien law is needed, but yes it could be changed to make sure the owner knows in advance what is going on. It is alot more complicated than one can explain, but that is the jist of it. There are alot of so called contractors out there willing to scam people. |
Since you have researched the Florida lien laws pretty well, you should be aware that hired staff (workers) generally can't file a construction lien against you. The Lien Laws were made for subcontractors, in general. Well, I guess he can file a lien but can he make it stick, as only a fired worked and not as a subcontractor, I don't think so.
Second, construction liens have some restrictions. They must be filed within 90 days of the date of completion of the job (you worker did that) and they are only good for one year. After one year, if the person who filed the lien hasn't gone to court and gotten a judgment (and you would have an opportunity to defend yourself), the lien expires. If they win in court, and do get a judgment, whole different story. You also have the right to demand they prove their claim in court within 90 days of filing it or withdraw it. Yes, lien laws are complicated and most homeowners are unaware of them and their ramifications so caution is the byword. |
I'm surprised by the number of posters who'd never heard of this type of lien. It's very common. In Texas it's called a materialman's & mechanic's lien. Here in Florida it's just the lien law, but I bet if you worked with a reputable contractor, you actually signed some paperwork that included language about the lien. I had a circular driveway put in 2 months and one of the documents of the contract was the Lien.
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Might be helpfull if people that have had a problem post the name of the contractor they hired (not the sub that filed the lien)
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We just got back from the laywer....
Only a subcontracor can file a claim to put a lien on your house. All other claims from someone working for the contractor cannot file a claim, and if they do, will not hold up in court. If the contractor is using sub-contractors, they are supposed to notify the owner by giving you a "Notice to Owner" paper, which states to you he is using sub-contractors for your job. Upon completion of your job, PRIOR TO PAYMENT, you are supposed to get in writing documentation that all of the sub-contractors are paid in full, THEN you pay the final payment to the contractor. In my case, the employee was in fact not a sub-contractor, and not able to file a complaint against us. I spoke to my contractor and I was told also a deal was worked out with the employee. Needless to say, this is a learning experience!! We are aware of the questions to ask for future reference, and will save our paperwork from this experience in our safety deposit box until forever, just in case..... |
Well wonderful dlzdhz. I'm glad it is working out for you guys. You got a lot of aggravation and even more education in one lesson.
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We used Old World Pavers.... but again, we are thrilled with the job they did, and we are happy that this issue has been resolved by the owner, Dave.
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dlzdhz, Thanks for the update. I'm so glad it worked out well.
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Contracter issue...not finishing work
Bump.........
Just wondered how this lien thing would work if someone hires a contractor...say to enclose or enlarge a lanai. He begins the work BUT doesn't come back and finish the job nor does he answer his phone!! I've observed, at least the part where a job looks like it's been started but it's weeks/months and it shows no progress!! Beyond contacting Seniors Againest Crime...what is the recourse??? |
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Never pay anything up front ( if a contractor can't start a job because of money, you don't want to deal with him), always get the contractor's license #, and check with the florida BPR ( bureau of professional regulation ) on the status of the license, and ALWAYS put your eyes on his certificate of liability insurance, and workers Compensation ins. When people show up to work, if they are not employees of the contractor, they need to jump through the same hoops, or do not start working.
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who was the company involved it would help to know.
company name for future interest in pavers.
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The response re: this post above did not address the "recourse" question! IT'S already a "work in progress"...one can't back-pedel and do what should or could have happened with the company! Common sense would probably tell the person all the "would have, should have, could have" things they might have done with the contractor! |
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