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-   -   Is there a double standard at work here? (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/current-events-news-541/there-double-standard-work-here-309141/)

golfing eagles 07-18-2020 05:44 AM

Is there a double standard at work here?
 
A question: (I don't have a dog in this fight)

Three people were arrested and charged with "vandalism" for pouring blue paint on a lane of 5th Ave. in front of Trump Tower that had previously had "Black Lives Matter" painted in yellow on the right lane of this public road. If applying blue paint to a public roadway is "vandalism", isn't applying yellow paint the same thing?????? Where are those arrests???

Dahabs 07-18-2020 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 1805114)
A question: (I don't have a dog in this fight)

Three people were arrested and charged with "vandalism" for pouring blue paint on a lane of 5th Ave. in front of Trump Tower that had previously had "Black Lives Matter" painted in yellow on the right lane of this public road. If applying blue paint to a public roadway is "vandalism", isn't applying yellow paint the same thing?????? Where are those arrests???

Wasn't the yellow paint applied by or with the blessing of the city?

Bay Kid 07-18-2020 06:05 AM

Depends on if you are in a trashy city or one the beautiful cities of America. In Richmond, VA, at the Lee statue, a gentleman showed up in broad daylight and started cleaning the vulgar language. Protesters called the police and he was removed. Then the protesters painted F--- the police back on the statue.

Something is really wrong in this country.

graciegirl 07-18-2020 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahabs (Post 1805131)
Wasn't the yellow paint applied by or with the blessing of the city?

This makes me think...

Most of the opinions we hear or read are from the news editors from the three major networks and they all live and work in Manhattan. Those people until this epidemic, sat knees to knees with people who had VERY similar opinions and together those people coined the very same "new phrases" we hear..........and those people didn't have a farmer among them or a realtor, or a classroom teacher or a trash collector or a landscaper etc. etc. They also seem to adhere to the notion that unless you are college educated you are not worthy of being listened to. Also the experts who are doctors that they interview, those doctors have not seen a naked patient in years and years...........

CFrance 07-18-2020 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 1805114)
A question: (I don't have a dog in this fight)

Three people were arrested and charged with "vandalism" for pouring blue paint on a lane of 5th Ave. in front of Trump Tower that had previously had "Black Lives Matter" painted in yellow on the right lane of this public road. If applying blue paint to a public roadway is "vandalism", isn't applying yellow paint the same thing?????? Where are those arrests???

That mural was authorized by the city and painted by city workers.

Stu from NYC 07-18-2020 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CFrance (Post 1805161)
That mural was authorized by the city and painted by city workers.

True. Would not want to be a police officer in a city where the police were so disrespected and know the city does not have their back no matter what happens.

Stu from NYC 07-18-2020 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1805153)
This makes me think...

Most of the opinions we hear or read are from the news editors from the three major networks and they all live and work in Manhattan. Those people until this epidemic, sat knees to knees with people who had VERY similar opinions and together those people coined the very same "new phrases" we hear..........and those people didn't have a farmer among them or a realtor, or a classroom teacher or a trash collector or a landscaper etc. etc. They also seem to adhere to the notion that unless you are college educated you are not worthy of being listened to. Also the experts who are doctors that they interview, those doctors have not seen a naked patient in years and years...........

Very true. One would think that we all know the reason why the ratings of the news on these networks keeps going down. The networks would want to make more money and be more in tune with their potential audience.

Very strange

BamaBoy451 07-18-2020 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CFrance (Post 1805161)
That mural was authorized by the city and painted by city workers.

Just my opinion but that's where the whole problem began. A city council and mayor with absolutely no backbone started this mess and it's only getting worse by the day.:ohdear:

tvbound 07-18-2020 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahabs (Post 1805131)
Wasn't the yellow paint applied by or with the blessing of the city?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CFrance (Post 1805161)
That mural was authorized by the city and painted by city workers.

That fact is so obvious, it's hard to imagine why anyone would even try to make a comparison.

Bucco 07-18-2020 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvbound (Post 1805207)
That fact is so obvious, it's hard to imagine why anyone would even try to make a comparison.

Well, you obviously need a reason to attack someone.

Remember when current events meant discussion of taxes, or such thing. Not always an attack on someone, justified or not.

Just fight...that is the goal of some.

graciegirl 07-18-2020 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 1805222)
Well, you obviously need a reason to attack someone.

Remember when current events meant discussion of taxes, or such thing. Not always an attack on someone, justified or not.

Just fight...that is the goal of some.

Didn't sound adversarial to me. We don't know why sometimes people are taking people to task for taking people to task.

CFrance 07-18-2020 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 1805181)
True. Would not want to be a police officer in a city where the police were so disrespected and know the city does not have their back no matter what happens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaBoy451 (Post 1805200)
Just my opinion but that's where the whole problem began. A city council and mayor with absolutely no backbone started this mess and it's only getting worse by the day.:ohdear:

I was not defending the mural itself nor stating any opinion about the painting of the mural. I was responding to a poster who wondered why the initial painters weren't arrested, when a Google search points out that it was authorized by the city. Therefore, no reason to arrest the city workers who painted the slogan.


The people of NYC can vote.

blueash 07-18-2020 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 1805181)
True. Would not want to be a police officer in a city where the police were so disrespected and know the city does not have their back no matter what happens.

And there is a nice defining difference between the two sides in this issue. One side wants the government to support the police "no matter what happens" The other side wants the government to support the citizens when the police are wrong.

I am sad that some good police feel "disrespected" but remind them that respect is earned and once lost can be regained by good acts. Point out the bad ones in your ranks.

Exactly the same dynamic has happened within the Catholic church. Very very few of its clergy were pedophiles. But all were tainted with that suspicion because too often their peers and their leaders covered up what they knew or suspected. If the church had promptly acted to remove the criminals the fall out would have been so much less. Instead the institution of the Church protected itself, like the police unions do.

One big difference is that the Church is a private organization which does not owe any allegiance or obligation to the citizens. Police are sworn to a whole different set of obligations. The government needs to support, fund, and recruit good men and women into police careers. It also needs to have strong policies to root out bad cops and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law.

OrangeBlossomBaby 07-18-2020 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 1805114)
A question: (I don't have a dog in this fight)

Three people were arrested and charged with "vandalism" for pouring blue paint on a lane of 5th Ave. in front of Trump Tower that had previously had "Black Lives Matter" painted in yellow on the right lane of this public road. If applying blue paint to a public roadway is "vandalism", isn't applying yellow paint the same thing?????? Where are those arrests???

The message in front of Trump Tower was painted by people who applied to the city with a permit to do so, and that permit was granted. It was intended to be temporary, it was in the category of artwork, such as a mural.

The vandals were just vandals who wanted to ruin something someone else did.

anothersteve 07-18-2020 09:17 AM

Painting it in front of Trump Tower?.............c'mon! uncalled for of DeBlasio if you ask me, pandering at a childish level. Oh the things I would love to say about that "Mayor"


Steve

OrangeBlossomBaby 07-18-2020 09:21 AM

The only "disrespect" for police I see in this thread, are from posters who have a problem with police arresting vandals, and NOT arresting people who painted a mural on authority of the city's government. In other words - people criticizing the police for doing their jobs.

graciegirl 07-18-2020 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 1805253)
And there is a nice defining difference between the two sides in this issue. One side wants the government to support the police "no matter what happens" The other side wants the government to support the citizens when the police are wrong.

I am sad that some good police feel "disrespected" but remind them that respect is earned and once lost can be regained by good acts. Point out the bad ones in your ranks.

Exactly the same dynamic has happened within the Catholic church. Very very few of its clergy were pedophiles. But all were tainted with that suspicion because too often their peers and their leaders covered up what they knew or suspected. If the church had promptly acted to remove the criminals the fall out would have been so much less. Instead the institution of the Church protected itself, like the police unions do.

One big difference is that the Church is a private organization which does not owe any allegiance or obligation to the citizens. Police are sworn to a whole different set of obligations. The government needs to support, fund, and recruit good men and women into police careers. It also needs to have strong policies to root out bad cops and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law.

One line jumps out at me above. If only we each took individual responsibility for ourselves and owned our acts and tried to do better. The problem is this.......many of us who have had very few dealings with law enforcement, because we are law abiding, do not have a negative view of police officers. Many of us in fact have not witnessed what law enforcement sees every day. I don't think we pay law enforcement enough. I will be so glad when those who are bullies and unfair and violent people are weeded out, but I am not happy that some of the restraints of people who ARE violent will not be allowed to be used on them. I think it is unrealistic to believe that law enforcement as we know it can be replaced with social workers. Ethics and rule following had dropped so much in this country since parents no longer are with small children day to day, every day. Now parents having children are the ones in early childhood who spent about ten hours a day with caregivers who THEIR parents would not trust with their car keys.

Velvet 07-18-2020 11:49 AM

Roads are public property to be used by everyone, and should not be treated as bulletin boards with loaded messages. Makes for distracted driving. In an effort to ignore messages people will start ignoring traffic signage as well assuming it is some kind of effort to manipulate their thinking. I also really dislike large digital bill boards by the road which take my attention off traffic.

Strongel 07-18-2020 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 1805253)
And there is a nice defining difference between the two sides in this issue. One side wants the government to support the police "no matter what happens" The other side wants the government to support the citizens when the police are wrong.

I am sad that some good police feel "disrespected" but remind them that respect is earned and once lost can be regained by good acts. Point out the bad ones in your ranks.

Exactly the same dynamic has happened within the Catholic church. Very very few of its clergy were pedophiles. But all were tainted with that suspicion because too often their peers and their leaders covered up what they knew or suspected. If the church had promptly acted to remove the criminals the fall out would have been so much less. Instead the institution of the Church protected itself, like the police unions do.

One big difference is that the Church is a private organization which does not owe any allegiance or obligation to the citizens. Police are sworn to a whole different set of obligations. The government needs to support, fund, and recruit good men and women into police careers. It also needs to have strong policies to root out bad cops and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law.

Churches are being attacked openly now, seen by those like Comedian Bill Moyer as “the enemy of mankind” as he openly attempts to stigmatize Christians in particular calling them morons and worse....so much for love thy neighbor, forgiveness etc. A good book recently came out called “Dark Agenda” about what is occurring out in the open. It’s for every American not just spiritual persons...scary.

coffeebean 07-18-2020 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CFrance (Post 1805161)
That mural was authorized by the city and painted by city workers.

Are these BLM murals on the streets paid for by tax payers?

BS Beef 07-18-2020 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 1805253)
And there is a nice defining difference between the two sides in this issue. One side wants the government to support the police "no matter what happens" The other side wants the government to support the citizens when the police are wrong.


That's a pretty big leap. I’d say one side wants support for the vast majority of the good police officers and swift, firm justice for the bad. And the other side wants rioting, looting, and anarchy.

Question: What communities have less crime. Those that support and work in conjunction with their police departments or those that do not support nor work with their police departments?

The place we do have common ground is I believe the police unions are too strong and make it possible to keep people not suited for the job on the force.

Stu from NYC 07-18-2020 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BS Beef (Post 1805409)
That's a pretty big leap. I’d say one side wants support for the vast majority of the good police officers and swift, firm justice for the bad. And the other side wants rioting, looting, and anarchy.

Question: What communities have less crime. Those that support and work in conjunction with their police departments or those that do not support nor work with their police departments?

The place we do have common ground is I believe the police unions are too strong and make it possible to keep people not suited for the job on the force.

Very true

OrangeBlossomBaby 07-18-2020 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strongel (Post 1805384)
Churches are being attacked openly now, seen by those like Comedian Bill Moyer as “the enemy of mankind” as he openly attempts to stigmatize Christians in particular calling them morons and worse....so much for love thy neighbor, forgiveness etc. A good book recently came out called “Dark Agenda” about what is occurring out in the open. It’s for every American not just spiritual persons...scary.

It's Bill Maher, not Bill Moyer. Bill Maher is known for his anti-religion stance, he's been dogging Christianity for decades.

mtdjed 07-18-2020 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 1805280)
The message in front of Trump Tower was painted by people who applied to the city with a permit to do so, and that permit was granted. It was intended to be temporary, it was in the category of artwork, such as a mural.

The vandals were just vandals who wanted to ruin something someone else did.

Wow, these people are vandals who ruin something somebody else did?

I thought they were protesters. Isn't that what has been going on all over the country? Shouldn't they be protected from being harassed by law enforcement? After all, what's a little graffiti, a few broken windows, a few fires, destroyed statues, demolished vehicles, etc?

Marvic 1 07-18-2020 06:50 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by CFrance (Post 1805161)
That mural was authorized by the city and painted by city workers.

Since when does Al Sharpton work for the City of New York, he should be arrested for putting graffiti onto streets.
Here is a picture of a Non-City workers laying yellow paint on the street.

Northwoods 07-18-2020 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 1805280)
The message in front of Trump Tower was painted by people who applied to the city with a permit to do so, and that permit was granted. It was intended to be temporary, it was in the category of artwork, such as a mural.

The vandals were just vandals who wanted to ruin something someone else did.

Here is my question - If a permit was given to paint BLM (they did it legally), and people who threw paint on the street are considered vandals because they wanted to ruin something, then why aren't all the "protesters" who are pulling down and defacing statues also arrested and charged with vandalism? Aren't they also vandals, just like the people that threw paint on BLM?
Why are some defacing acts tolerated, yet others are arrested and considered vandalism?

Marvic 1 07-18-2020 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtdjed (Post 1805517)
Wow, these people are vandals who ruin something somebody else did?

Its coming back to bite them in the butt... Are they "vandals" when the knock down Statues, desecrate and burn Churches? :popcorn:

ONTAP15 07-18-2020 08:12 PM

No no it was painted by deblazio, his wife and....none other than .the "rev" al sharpton

mtdjed 07-18-2020 09:27 PM

Was the "Gentleman" who struck the Police officer (Chief) on the Brooklyn bridge with a pole a protester, vandal or attempted murderer.

He hit the Officer with a lethal weapon , not in self defense, but in an attempt that could kill him. Some would say that if a police officer did that, he was attempting to unjustly murder. So, what happened to this person? I do not know for sure, but have heard he was apprehended, but released. Do not know if that is true.

Anyone observing this incident should be just as upset as those who are with the Police Officer who "murdered" George Floyd.

Yet the world is going crazy about the inhumane treatment given to George Floyd, but where is the same sentiment towards this incident where the intent was the same. And, the attacker supposedly released. Seems like attempted murder. Why no protests against this?

Hard to accept posts as legitimate from those that accept this activity as OK , but are vocal in criticizing "Vandals" who paint over vindictive BLM "Murals".

The guy who hit the Police Officer should be in jail and charged with attempted murder. Just as bad as the Police Officer who killed George Floyd. One succeeded, one failed, both just as bad. In fact, one might argue that the Police Officer and George had an encounter, and a fight that ended in death, but that the "Gentleman" just chose/selected" someone to attack even though not engaged with that person. Same attempt though.


The fact that he may have been released is unthinkable. If that did happen, we are lost.

Northwoods 07-18-2020 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 1805564)
I don't know. Why not ask the people who tolerate those acts? To me, destruction is destruction. Anyone who does it should be subject to the laws equally.

But this particular thread isn't about the statues and fires and window-breaking. The question of THIS thread is about the vandals who destroyed a recently-created graphic on a street, and why they are being considered criminals, but the people who created the graphic are not criminals.

The answer is - because the people who created the graphic had PERMISSION to do it. The people who destroyed the graphic did NOT have permission to do so.

You want to beat that dead rotting horse about the OTHER vandalism going on in the country, you should have no trouble finding a dozen other threads about it.

I agree with you. Destruction is destruction. I agree all people should be subject to laws equally.

They don't seem to be. But I do agree with you.

blueash 07-18-2020 10:28 PM

Quote:

StuFromNY
Would not want to be a police officer in a city where the police were so disrespected and know the city does not have their back no matter what happens.
my reply

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueash View Post
And there is a nice defining difference between the two sides in this issue. One side wants the government to support the police "no matter what happens" The other side wants the government to support the citizens when the police are wrong.

Your rephrase: Originally Posted by BS Beef View Post
Quote:

That's a pretty big leap. I’d say one side wants support for the vast majority of the good police officers and swift, firm justice for the bad. And the other side wants rioting, looting, and anarchy.
This is not what I said. My comment was that certain quarters insist that police are always right and the exact language used by Stu was that he would not want to be a policeman if the government did not have his back NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS.

BLM does not support rioting or looting or anarchy. Those are the same tropes that were used to attack John Lewis and MLK, the anti-war protestors during Vietnam and the Gulf Wars.

Aloha1 07-19-2020 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CFrance (Post 1805161)
That mural was authorized by the city and painted by city workers.

Uh, no. Video shows it was DeBlasio, his wife and several other hanger ons that did the painting.

Aloha1 07-19-2020 03:33 PM

[QUOTE=blueash;1805577
BLM does not support rioting or looting or anarchy. [/QUOTE]

Seriously? BLM is a Marxist organization dedicated to the overthrow of the Government and our current economic system. Read their Manifesto. They may profess to not support rioting and anarchy but their active cells country wide sure do. Where do you think the orders are coming from?

eyc234 07-19-2020 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 1805280)
The message in front of Trump Tower was painted by people who applied to the city with a permit to do so, and that permit was granted. It was intended to be temporary, it was in the category of artwork, such as a mural.

The vandals were just vandals who wanted to ruin something someone else did.

How are these vandals any different than the vandals painting on private property or on the public property during supposed peaceful demonstrations? Why does not the people running the cities have those individuals or mobs arrested? Just a question that continues the logical thought process.

karostay 07-19-2020 04:58 PM

How did they ever get a permit approve Good Ol boy club

oneclickplus 07-20-2020 06:07 AM

speaking of a double standard ...
 
1 Attachment(s)
"no political references are allowed on the website."

CFrance 07-20-2020 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aloha1 (Post 1806074)
Uh, no. Video shows it was DeBlasio, his wife and several other hanger ons that did the painting.


(CNN)New York City is painting a Black Lives Matter mural on the street directly outside of Trump Tower in Midtown Manhattan.

City employees began painting a stretch of Fifth Avenue, just in front of the Trump Organization's headquarters, on Thursday morning. Mayor Bill de Blasio authorized the stark yellow mural earlier this month.



Black Lives Matter mural painted outside Trump Tower in Manhattan - CNN


And don't tell me CNN is a fake news channel.

PennBF 07-20-2020 07:02 AM

New York Police
 
I was raised in New York, worked in the city for many years both in lower Manhattan and Midtown. The police were always friendly and helpful. Now the inmates have taken over the asylum! It was once said that the United States would never be defeated from "with out" but only from "within". That is exactly what is being attempted today. I am sure as has been said many times that the protestors/thugs/etc. are not just random but rather well organized! The persecution of some of the Afro-American's is playing right into their hands and are again being abused by these criminal anti American's. Did you see the articale in the Sunday times which indicated the Villager's are "evil" and promoted that one protester who embarased us to the world? Nothing like this happens without consequences and that's the next shoe to fall. As I have said, those that want to throw slings and arrows at this, have at it.:ohdear:

blueash 07-20-2020 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyc234 (Post 1806106)
How are these vandals any different than the vandals painting on private property or on the public property during supposed peaceful demonstrations? Why does not the people running the cities have those individuals or mobs arrested? Just a question that continues the logical thought process.

And a good process. John Lewis spoke of "good trouble" by which he meant civil protest even civil disobedience to further a righteous cause. And for those acts he was more than willing to accept arrest which happened not just to Lewis but to so many others.
There have been arrests in the present and ongoing protests for acts of "good trouble" There have been arrests for destruction of statues. There have been arrests for breaking curfews. There have been arrests for refusing to disperse. There have been what many regard as kidnapping by unknown agents of people walking down the street and never charged or given a reason for their detention. And yes, there have been arrests of people for defacing the BLM street painting. If you commit such acts you accept the risk of arrest. I am sure those who are being arrested knew that when they acted and felt their acts were "good trouble" YMMV

blueash 07-20-2020 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PennBF (Post 1806251)
I was raised in New York, worked in the city for many years both in lower Manhattan and Midtown. The police were always friendly and helpful.

Your experience may not be the same as to the general attitude of police. Your post is the definition of white privilege, from which I also benefitted and continue to benefit. You believe your positive experiences with police provide a framework upon which you then assert that therefore all people have the same experience. It isn't so.

Only now with ubiquitous cellphone cameras is the way in which POC too often are subjected to authoritarian abuse by LEOs being seen. You can easily dismiss this as it is contrary to your experience. But when POC tell you that they see everyday interaction with LEOs as being fraught, you should believe them. They believe your assertion that you have never had a problem with police being difficult.


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