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Madelaine Amee 07-21-2020 06:44 AM

Security Police in Unmarked Cars
 
I have been waiting to see if anyone would start a conversation on the unmarked security force and the unmarked cars in Portland, OR. This is reminiscent of Nazi Germany.

Bay Kid 07-21-2020 06:48 AM

Portland, Or is an embarrassment to our country.

rde3036 07-21-2020 07:14 AM

Unmarked police cars are common in every state in the union and have been for the last 70 years. It's damn hard to conduct a stakeout in standard state troopers car.

Madelaine Amee 07-21-2020 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bay Kid (Post 1806589)
Portland, Or is an embarrassment to our country.

From your reply, I can only presume that you are perfectly OK with unmarked security and unmarked cars using pepper spray and beating up people with night sticks and shooting them with rubber bullets. Is that bringing order to our streets?

billethkid 07-21-2020 07:15 AM

No different than any other location where there are unmarked police/enforcement agencies.

Let them use what ever tools or not that allow them to catch the looters/rioters/thugs/killers!

No BS about rights violations needed.

Just get the bad folks!!

graciegirl 07-21-2020 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madelaine Amee (Post 1806608)
From your reply, I can only presume that you are perfectly OK with unmarked security and unmarked cars using pepper spray and beating up people with night sticks and shooting them with rubber bullets. Is that bringing order to our streets?

Sometimes it is warranted. It is no baby game out there. I guess some people missed live PD. A lot of violence of citizens who try to harm those who are attempting to arrest them. If you watch the LEO's (over half of the country's police officers wear cameras) you will also see polite and follow the rules behavior. They say this gentleman, this female instead of wild scoundrel like I would describe some folks calling police "pig, bitch, *******, faggot, etc.etc." and biting and spitting on them and not stopping ...oh no. Not stopping.

anothersteve 07-21-2020 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madelaine Amee (Post 1806608)
From your reply, I can only presume that you are perfectly OK with unmarked security and unmarked cars using pepper spray and beating up people with night sticks and shooting them with rubber bullets. Is that bringing order to our streets?

The short answer....yes

Steve

billethkid 07-21-2020 07:31 AM

Sitting at the keyboard and intellectualizing the issue is easy....no investment in the reality!!!!

When they are breaking down your doors and windows one's perspective changes quickly.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr 07-21-2020 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madelaine Amee (Post 1806608)
From your reply, I can only presume that you are perfectly OK with unmarked security and unmarked cars using pepper spray and beating up people with night sticks and shooting them with rubber bullets. Is that bringing order to our streets?

Are you implying that police in unmarked cars are simply stopping in the street and targeting random people with pepper spray, beating up people with night sticks and shooting them with rubber bullets?

If that's what you're saying it's wrong, but I would need to see a lot of evidence that that is happening.

Mortal1 07-21-2020 07:51 AM

And how is burning cars, businesses,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Madelaine Amee (Post 1806608)
From your reply, I can only presume that you are perfectly OK with unmarked security and unmarked cars using pepper spray and beating up people with night sticks and shooting them with rubber bullets. Is that bringing order to our streets?

tearing down statues, throwing rocks and bottles filled with gas peaceful protesting???

The police are doing their jobs....

dewilson58 07-21-2020 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madelaine Amee (Post 1806587)
I have been waiting to see if anyone would start a conversation on the unmarked security force and the unmarked cars in Portland, OR. This is reminiscent of Nazi Germany.


Thanks for thread.................good discussion.

Stu from NYC 07-21-2020 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madelaine Amee (Post 1806587)
I have been waiting to see if anyone would start a conversation on the unmarked security force and the unmarked cars in Portland, OR. This is reminiscent of Nazi Germany.

The police do that as part of their jobs. Have you noticed unmarked cars on the highways?

If people break the law and destroy and loot this is a great way to scoop them up and send them off to jail.

valuemkt 07-21-2020 09:39 AM

Should we call in a social worker ??
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Madelaine Amee (Post 1806608)
From your reply, I can only presume that you are perfectly OK with unmarked security and unmarked cars using pepper spray and beating up people with night sticks and shooting them with rubber bullets. Is that bringing order to our streets?

When you are carrying out wanton destruction of property in a large group, that is a riot.. and not the good kind. Pepper spray and rubber bullets would only be the first wave.. The idiot mayors should declare curfews.. which of course they have not, and they would not be observed anyway .. Pepper spray and rubber bullets won;t work in a large crowd .. water cannons and tear gas will ..

And mass arrests WITHOUT bail for those destroying property and NOT demonstrating peacefully might start sending a message .. This shouldnt be confused with a police state, this should be a demonstration of law and order .. To protect public and private property from destruction and return law and order ..

Yes violence often begets violence to get things under control .. and its well overdue .

Violate laws and disrespect property and desecrate monuments .. you get what you came for .. and community service sentences (in addition to jail time) should include cleaning up and paying for the mess they created ..

The federal government, our tax dollars, should not pay for clean up caused by sissy mayors ..

bilcon 07-21-2020 09:48 AM

I guess the only way that Law enforcement can do their jobs without being attacked is undercover. If that's what it takes, go for it. Those opposed can put on a uniform and jump in the middle of the protesters. See how that works out for you.

Luisa 07-21-2020 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madelaine Amee (Post 1806608)
From your reply, I can only presume that you are perfectly OK with unmarked security and unmarked cars using pepper spray and beating up people with night sticks and shooting them with rubber bullets. Is that bringing order to our streets?

The only person getting beat by a stick was a policeman that had blood running down numerous places on his face and head, by a member of a BLM mob. I pray the assailant is is grabbed in an unmarked vehicle ASAP. Would you rather they use real bullets? It is very smart to use unmarked vehicles so mobs don’t assault law enforcement and vandalize marked cars.

Luisa 07-21-2020 10:07 AM

[QUOTE=Madelaine Amee;1806587]I have been waiting to see if anyone would start a conversation on the unmarked security force and the unmarked cars in Portland, OR. This is reminiscent of Nazi Germany.[/QUOTE
No relationship to Nazi Germany. However, not using these appropriate methods is reminiscent of cartel ran Mexico.

Stu from NYC 07-21-2020 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luisa (Post 1806726)
The only person getting beat by a stick was a policeman that had blood running down numerous places on his face and head, by a member of a BLM mob. I pray the assailant is is grabbed in an unmarked vehicle ASAP. Would you rather they use real bullets? It is very smart to use unmarked vehicles so mobs don’t assault law enforcement and vandalize marked cars.

The police have the right to defend themselves. Anyone beating an officer about the head should be handcuffed and sent to prison.

If they need to pull out their guns to do so and perhaps shoot a few criminals so be it.

Pballer 07-21-2020 10:56 AM

These forces are not local unmarked police. They are camouflaged federal Homeland Security forces that were not invited by the local government into Portland. Soon they are supposed to be deployed to Chicago and other big cities without invitation by the local governments.

I have no doubt that unless this is stopped in the courts, these squads will be showing up on November 3rd in mostly minority neighborhoods to ensure "free and fair" elections. Sad that we have learned nothing from Italy and Germany of the 1920s and 1930s, and the rise of authoritarianism in modern day Europe.

Joe V. 07-21-2020 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madelaine Amee (Post 1806587)
I have been waiting to see if anyone would start a conversation on the unmarked security force and the unmarked cars in Portland, OR. This is reminiscent of Nazi Germany.

This is not new and is not even close to what happened in Germany. In the late 70s and early 80s I worked on a Narcotics Task Force 'Rip Team' on the MPDC in Washington DC.

Either from surveillance of drug traffickers on the street completing deals or by an undercover officer making a buy our team would rapidly swoop in on our suspect(s), arrest and handcuff them and put them into unmarked cars, and disappear from the scene of the arrest as fast as we came in.

This method was surgical and most people on the street did not know this even happened. Very effective to not disturb the flow of the street.

If executed correctly this was done in less than a minute or two before we left the scene. These tactics were challenged in court. Every level of court appeal found no issues with this and the SCOTUS declined to overturn the Appeals Court. Like I said not new and court sanctioned.

Also as an aside, you did not need to immediately Mirandize the suspect, unless you were to question them. It all depended on the circumstances if you did it in the car or at the cop shop.

Daddymac 07-21-2020 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madelaine Amee (Post 1806608)
From your reply, I can only presume that you are perfectly OK with unmarked security and unmarked cars using pepper spray and beating up people with night sticks and shooting them with rubber bullets. Is that bringing order to our streets?

I don’t see them doing that to peaceful protesters, Now people breaking windows and robbing store, YUP, IM GOOD WITH IT !!!

blueash 07-21-2020 11:17 AM

In Portland, and perhaps soon to other cities, there are unnamed persons dressed in camo carrying weapons. They are not the forces of the city, county or the state. These persons wear no identifying insignias nor any name tags. They are driving vans apparently rented. They are grabbing people walking down the street not committing any crime. These citizens are not advised of their rights, they are not given any information on who is dragging them off the streets. Essentially they are being kidnapped by unknown persons who refuse to identify themselves.

None of them have ever been given a name. None have been charged with a crime. All have been taken to an unknown site, questioned and released. That is NOT how police work. This is not a regular cop in an unmarked car wearing a name tag and a camera. These are not LEO's protecting a building, they are out in the street.

If you are paying attention you have already seen the video of a 50 yo Navy veteran who went to Portland to speak to these persons and when he approached them he was beaten and had his hand broken. He was doing nothing but talking to them. He was beaten. He was beaten. This is an apt comparison to Germany in 1936.

Watch the video. See what the man does. He is standing in the street in front of some unknown military talking. I don't care if he is cursing their mothers. He is not a threat. He is beaten and pepper sprayed. He does not resist. He never makes a threatening move. He is not endangering property. He is not raping anyone. He is not throwing any bombs. He is not destroying a statue. He is not, god forbid, producing graffiti. He is peacefully protesting and for that he is assaulted by somebody who is there contrary to the wishes of the mayor and the governor of Portland.

Stormtrooper tactics. If you saw a video of Chinese military doing this to peaceful protestors in Hong Kong you would be horrified and rightly so. Apply that same outrage to whomever is ordering this outrage in this country.

graciegirl 07-21-2020 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pballer (Post 1806754)
These forces are not local unmarked police. They are camouflaged federal Homeland Security forces that were not invited by the local government into Portland. Soon they are supposed to be deployed to Chicago and other big cities without invitation by the local governments.

I have no doubt that unless this is stopped in the courts, these squads will be showing up on November 3rd in mostly minority neighborhoods to ensure "free and fair" elections. Sad that we have learned nothing from Italy and Germany of the 1920s and 1930s, and the rise of authoritarianism in modern day Europe.

Sometimes it takes Homeland Security to keep law and order.

There is nothing I like about the hateful groups that gather. I think they are dangerous mobs. Marching is a euphemism for gathering with like minded people who are gonna get madder and break something and burn something. None of them are people I respect. If it takes a baton, well ....


I think no matter what happens later this year, there really won't be a winner.

Daddymac 07-21-2020 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pballer (Post 1806754)
These forces are not local unmarked police. They are camouflaged federal Homeland Security forces that were not invited by the local government into Portland. Soon they are supposed to be deployed to Chicago and other big cities without invitation by the local governments.

I have no doubt that unless this is stopped in the courts, these squads will be showing up on November 3rd in mostly minority neighborhoods to ensure "free and fair" elections. Sad that we have learned nothing from Italy and Germany of the 1920s and 1930s, and the rise of authoritarianism in modern day Europe.

They don’t need to be invited, The Federal Government sent them in to protect the Americans people property. Looters, killers,

blueash 07-21-2020 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe V. (Post 1806758)
This is not new and is not even close to what happened in Germany. In the late 70s and early 80s I worked on a Narcotics Task Force 'Rip Team' on the MPDC in Washington DC.

Either from surveillance of drug traffickers on the street completing deals or by an undercover officer making a buy our team would rapidly swoop in on our suspect(s), arrest and handcuff them and put them into unmarked cars, and disappear from the scene of the arrest as fast as we came in.

This method was surgical and most people on the street did not know this even happened. Very effective to not disturb the flow of the street.

If executed correctly this was done in less than a minute or two before we left the scene. These tactics were challenged in court. Every level of court appeal found no issues with this and the SCOTUS declined to overturn the Appeals Court. Like I said not new and court sanctioned.

Also as an aside, you did not need to immediately Mirandize the suspect, unless you were to question them. It all depended on the circumstances if you did it in the car or at the cop shop.

But the people you grabbed were arrested, they were charged, they were part of a legal policing effort, they were not just grabbed then let go because there was evidence that justified their detention and charges were filed. That is absolutely not the situation in Portland. Few of the persons kidnapped have been charged or detained, just dragged off the street.

Quote:

Two protesters, Mark Pettibone and Conner O’Shea, told the outlet they were chased by an unmarked minivan early Wednesday morning as they were heading home after peacefully demonstrating. Pettibone did not escape.

“I am basically tossed into the van,” he told Oregon Public Broadcasting. “And I had my beanie pulled over my face so I couldn’t see, and they held my hands over my head.”

He said the officers did not identify themselves or state the reason he was being detained, and only read him his Miranda rights after placing him in a cell. Asked if he would waive those rights to answer a few questions, Pettibone declined and requested a lawyer. He said he was released after about 90 minutes.
Does that sound anything like the drug arrest situation you described in DC?

dadspet 07-21-2020 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madelaine Amee (Post 1806608)
From your reply, I can only presume that you are perfectly OK with unmarked security and unmarked cars using pepper spray and beating up people with night sticks and shooting them with rubber bullets. Is that bringing order to our streets?

Yes! They are tugs and Rioters not protestors who have no respect for property, law, and order or our great country. They are turning out great country into a 3rd world country where gangs take over the streets and there is no law enforcement or even worst Law turns a blind eye to avoid criticism or putting them selfes into dangerous situations. These rioters are taunting the police to invite a reaction and get on TV ( that loves to show the reaction).

Actually more should be done to stop the crazy destruction these Rioters cause in the name of a cause with no regard or respect for Law and Order. Portland is an embarrassment! Defund the police is an insane idea that would turn the country into an even more lawless society where the rioting groups can demand whatever they feel serves their needs and their lawless actions become an acceptable norm.

I think its time for people like me who: served their country, are proud of their country and believe its the best country, were brought up respecting Law and Order (resolving issues appropriately), to become more vocal in their beliefs.

Joe V. 07-21-2020 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 1806784)
But the people you grabbed were arrested, they were charged, they were part of a legal policing effort, they were not just grabbed then let go because there was evidence that justified their detention and charges were filed. That is absolutely not the situation in Portland. Few of the persons kidnapped have been charged or detained, just dragged off the street.



Does that sound anything like the drug arrest situation you described in DC?

I never arrested a guilty person or had anyone complain about being arrested- sarcasm here.

Apparently you and other posters have fallen into the illusory truth effect "... have a tendency to believe something is true after being exposed to it multiple times. The more times we've heard something, the truer it seems. The effect is so powerful that repetition can persuade us to believe information we know is false in the first place.

No proof, at all, indicates the Federal officers did not engage in the precise policing actions I related in my first post.

Nothing I say will ever convince you that you or the others here could be wrong. Thanks for the post though.

-out!

dewilson58 07-21-2020 11:57 AM

I'm not doing anything illegal, so unmarked officers, unmarked cars, unmarked _____ doesn't bother me.

Stu from NYC 07-21-2020 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe V. (Post 1806790)
I never arrested a guilty person or had anyone complain about being arrested- sarcasm here.

Apparently you and other posters have fallen into the illusory truth effect "... have a tendency to believe something is true after being exposed to it multiple times. The more times we've heard something, the truer it seems. The effect is so powerful that repetition can persuade us to believe information we know is false in the first place.

No proof, at all, indicates the Federal officers did not engage in the precise policing actions I related in my first post.

Nothing I say will ever convince you that you or the others here could be wrong. Thanks for the post though.

-out!

Thank you for your informed words of reason and your service.

Stu from NYC 07-21-2020 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 1806795)
I'm not doing anything illegal, so unmarked officers, unmarked cars, unmarked _____ doesn't bother me.

If it takes these looters, thieves and destroyers of personal property off the streets go for it.

Two Bills 07-21-2020 12:22 PM

As father used to say when I was a kid, and came home with a bloody nose, "If you are going to dish it out, you beter learn to take it!"
No one forced the rioters/demonstrators to be on the streets.

seoulbrooks 07-21-2020 12:29 PM

Do the rioters ware a uniform identifying themselves, where they are from and who funded their trip? I thought not. Maybe they should ware something with a bank account # to pay for all of their destruction. Only fair for police to also be unidentified.

billethkid 07-21-2020 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seoulbrooks (Post 1806817)
Do the rioters ware a uniform identifying themselves, where they are from and who funded their trip? I thought not. Maybe they should ware something with a bank account # to pay for all of their destruction. Only fair for police to also be unidentified.

Very similar to terrorists.
Lie in wait, taking lives, ruining lives, destroying property....anonymous COWARDS!!!!
Cuff 'em and jail 'em........treat them like war criminals until proven other wise....figure out later who they are.

We are long past the time to restore law and order...thanks to the spineless politicians and special interest groups that dictate to them.

anothersteve 07-21-2020 12:56 PM

It's not just BLM at these......um........"protests". ANTIFA is there in force and they are deemed a terrorist organization, hence the Feds involvement I would think.

Steve

Marvic 1 07-21-2020 01:07 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 1806762)
In Portland, and perhaps soon to other cities, there are unnamed persons dressed in camo carrying weapons. They are not the forces of the city, county or the state. These persons wear no identifying insignias nor any name tags.

Their are unnamed persons dressed in Black riot gear outfits carrying bats, Skate boards, bricks, matches and who knows what else in their back-packs. These Black outfit persons wear no Identifying insignia nor any name tags, are these terrorist infiltrating our country.. :shrug:

daddymac1127 07-21-2020 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pballer (Post 1806754)
These forces are not local unmarked police. They are camouflaged federal Homeland Security forces that were not invited by the local government into Portland. Soon they are supposed to be deployed to Chicago and other big cities without invitation by the local governments.

I have no doubt that unless this is stopped in the courts, these squads will be showing up on November 3rd in mostly minority neighborhoods to ensure "free and fair" elections. Sad that we have learned nothing from Italy and Germany of the 1920s and 1930s, and the rise of authoritarianism in modern day Europe.

Reports indicate that these unmarked personnel were being used to protect the Federal Court House which was under siege by the protesters.

If the reports are correct, should we have just allowed the protesters take over the Court House? Like Seattle?

Marvic 1 07-21-2020 01:31 PM

If a Federal Building is being attacked shouldn't it be a Federal Security Agency the ones to protect it, Mayor should haves NO SAY?

graciegirl 07-21-2020 01:48 PM

When a person walks up to people who are obviously in authority and antagonizes them and this person is a big guy and wearing a shirt that says Navy.( Does that really mean he was a veteran??? Maybe, Maybe not) I don't know. I have to rely on what people tell me and not too many veterans flip the bird at someone who is sent to keep order and is identified by a patch that says police and is wearing fatigues.

Those guys who had the batons were in the midst of an out of control crowd and they were sent to restore order and they were issued those batons. They just didn't amass themselves together and try to beat up the protestors. I would have to think that the guy in the Navy shirt really yelled awful things at them and kept walking toward them advancing on them and to me the guys in the fatigues represent authority. They represent parents and teachers and bosses and laws that say when a police officer says stop, STOP.

I wonder why I feel so strongly and this whole conversation has made me boiling mad almost to tears. Perhaps because I do believe in the laws of this land and I do think that most police officers are in the right.

Luisa 07-21-2020 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pballer (Post 1806754)
These forces are not local unmarked police. They are camouflaged federal Homeland Security forces that were not invited by the local government into Portland. Soon they are supposed to be deployed to Chicago and other big cities without invitation by the local governments.

I have no doubt that unless this is stopped in the courts, these squads will be showing up on November 3rd in mostly minority neighborhoods to ensure "free and fair" elections. Sad that we have learned nothing from Italy and Germany of the 1920s and 1930s, and the rise of authoritarianism in modern day Europe.

They don’t need an invitation by local government to protect federal buildings from burning, graffiti, fireworks, etc. Funny how the people complaining about inequality and racial injustice are the same people destroying property. They are not going to have equality if they destroy while others build. For those that are advocating lawlessness, try living in Mexico or Somalia. Let the people in Chicago kill each other until there are none left. Let the people in Portland riot until there is no more Portland. Unfortunately, the people against this are not represented by the media and decent people are staying away from cities. I don’t even know why I responded to this because it is so absurd.

Luisa 07-21-2020 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1806853)
When a person walks up to people who are obviously in authority and antagonizes them and this person is a big guy and wearing a shirt that says Navy.( Does that really mean he was a veteran??? Maybe, Maybe not) I don't know. I have to rely on what people tell me and not too many veterans flip the bird at someone who is sent to keep order and is identified by a patch that says police and is wearing fatigues.

Those guys who had the batons were in the midst of an out of control crowd and they were sent to restore order and they were issued those batons. They just didn't amass themselves together and try to beat up the protestors. I would have to think that the guy in the Navy shirt really yelled awful things at them and kept walking toward them advancing on them and to me the guys in the fatigues represent authority. They represent parents and teachers and bosses and laws that say when a police officer says stop, STOP.

I wonder why I feel so strongly and this whole conversation has made me boiling mad almost to tears. Perhaps because I do believe in the laws of this land and I do think that most police officers are in the right.

I feel the same way. Has our country gone mad? If this country is so bad, why does the whole world want to come here other than for their own power grab.

blueash 07-21-2020 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1806853)
When a person walks up to people who are obviously in authority and antagonizes them and this person is a big guy and wearing a shirt that says Navy.( Does that really mean he was a veteran??? Maybe, Maybe not) I don't know. I have to rely on what people tell me and not too many veterans flip the bird at someone who is sent to keep order and is identified by a patch that says police and is wearing fatigues.

Those guys who had the batons were in the midst of an out of control crowd and they were sent to restore order and they were issued those batons. They just didn't amass themselves together and try to beat up the protestors. I would have to think that the guy in the Navy shirt really yelled awful things at them and kept walking toward them advancing on them and to me the guys in the fatigues represent authority. They represent parents and teachers and bosses and laws that say when a police officer says stop, STOP.

I wonder why I feel so strongly and this whole conversation has made me boiling mad almost to tears. Perhaps because I do believe in the laws of this land and I do think that most police officers are in the right.

Bingo Gracie. You have hit upon the reason the Federal gov't is using persons untrained in civilian law enforcement protocols in Portland. It is a bald faced attempt to rile up a segment of the population to be upset about law and order. It has been that way since Nixon at least. Nothing would help more than to instigate conflict between protestors and military to make that an issue. Take the focus off police brutality and shift the discussion to law and order. Both the governor and the mayor did not want this and spoke out that things were improving. The escalation now is entirely because of the introduction of outside agitators into the mix. Look at all the posts on this thread about antifa which does not exist as an organization.

By the way. You certainly can use Google to prove to yourself that the man beaten while standing in the street talking at the troops is a Navy vet. I won't post a link. I support peaceful protest. I support good policing. I reject violent protest and I also reject violent policing. But I also hold the police to at least the same standard as a protestor. Hit someone standing there talking with a baton.. go to jail. Kidnap someone, I don't care what color clothes the person is wearing, go to jail. Kneel on someone's neck until they stop moving.. go to jail.


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