Problems with IRS and the Villages
 

My husband and I have been going back and forth renting houses in the Villages to get a feel for life here. Then I read a few articles about the IRS and the Villages management in a battle over back taxes and the bonds implemented when you purchase a home saying they (the Villages management have no authority to initiate this bond). For fear of retrobution and or additional monies being tossed to the residents to have to pay, we have decided to not move here solely for that reason. Also, we hear there are so many "ammenity fees" that you pay just to live in the Villages. Is there information on this IRS issue I can review and how many "fees" does one pay just to live in the Villages?

I would appreciate input from anyone!!!

The bonds being referred to are NOT the bonds on the individual homes!!! There is ONE amenity fee. About $135.00 per month for everyone, and an annual CDD maintennance fee which varies by district.

I agree with Mitchell. Read EdvinMass threads.

The Villages Developers don't owe back taxes.

The Villages is so very successful that it takes away from sales from other retirement areas.

In my opinion not everyone who posts on here has our best interests at heart. There are some ulterior motives for engendering fear about this.

You have to be careful when you compair costs. For the home I would add the amount of the bond to the price of a house and use this total to compare to developments that do not have a bond.
The ammenity fee gets harder as different developments include different services. You have to add up what you think you will spend in each development and compare. For example in most developments the "gym" is include but it adds about 33% more to the TV cost since it is not included.

Terri B:

A post from EdVinMass:

I would think that you folks in TV would welcome this article because in my mind, it shows how the CDD form of master-planned community developments can work if managed properly as has clearly been done here in TV. And I might add that the Morse family has been at this project for well over two decades. It’s the ‘Johnny come lately’ developers that rushed into this for a fast killing during the boom years of 2002-2007 that are failing.

PTurner asked a pertinent question regarding how non-cdd developments have done through all of this. There’s probably not much info on this since they’re privately funded. But I think it would follow the same pattern of when the project was started. But what’s particularly bad about the privately funded developments is that they tended to sell homes before the promised amenities were built. Not good for those that believed what they wanted to hear.

As for the IRS ruling, let me say once again. Regardless of the outcome, there is absolutely no way that a homeowner in TV will be obligated to pay a dime of this. Your sole obligation is to pay the $135 per month amenity fee and that can never be raised more than the change in the CPI, (consumer price index), in any year. So no special assessments can be levied and those two special CDDs have no taxing power on the homeowners.

And to that I have not a ‘Shadow’ of a doubt.

Terrie,

I just bought a lovely home in Woodbury in June. I plan on being there full time in two years. For the last four years, I have been visiting TV, checking home prices, gaining an understanding on fees and taxes, checking resale values and following this IRS issue, etc. I'm an auditor by training, so I am skeptical of everything. I had no issue with this IRS thing when I bought. In my line of business, you make decisions on the information and facts. From everything I researched, the IRS thing was so inconclusive, it became a non factor in my decision. Everything other fact and information make me feel confident in my decision.

My point is everything has a weighted factor in decision making. This IRS thing was only a minor issue to me.

This same issue came up in 1999 and the IRS had to back off then. There are plenty of everyday things to "worry" about without this. The developers have done plenty right or this place would not continue to grow.

I agree that the IRS issue is a minor issue, JMO....gn

Here's a link to an article just published that should answer that:

http://www.districtgov.org/PDFView/P...20100826000801

Irs
 

Thanks for all the good (and comforting) information. I've been a little tweeked since finding out about this (after purchasing our home). It sounds like I don't need to spend another minute worrying!

Don't worry be happy. We are to old to worry about something we can't control. This issue has been around for years. It's being pushed buy a reporter looking for her first pulitizer.

I was just reading an article in The Bond Buyer, an online financial magazine, which describes The Villages vs. IRS issue. It says the IRS had expanded its review of bonds to include about $400 million worth of bonds, and it also has problems with the CDD appraisals of recreational facitilties they valued at approximately $64 million which independent appraisals only value at about $7 million.

As residents, we're all hoping that this will go away, the IRS will rule in The Villages favor. But there are obviously no guarantees. Our amentity fees cannot go up, which begs the question, if there are tax penalties to be paid, which could be many millions of dollars, where is the money coming from?

In the meantime, as others have said, there is no point in worrying, because it certainly is out of our hands, but the wise will keep abreast of all current information while we wait to see what happens. We all love the lifestyle here, but if the IRS rules that the Morses's via the CDD's acted improperly, there is a problem, and it will be affecting the residents. Perhaps there will be a special surcharge, perhaps amenties will be dropped, who knows?

I'm not going to stick my head in the sand, and say there are no problems, the Morse's are going to take care of me, that would be foolish. When the IRS decision is made, we can then look at the facts, and be prepared to deal with the consequences. We are all hoping that this IRS inquiry will go away as the previous one did, but to me this investigation sounds much more extensive, and I suspect they do not want the method the Villages used to act as precedent for other CDD's. But for now we Villagers are in limbo. I'm sorry if this post alarms anyone, that is not the intent, but I call the facts as I see them. We all handle adversity in differerent ways, and I do it by facing things head on and getting as educated as I can about issues which affect me.

I would recommend you try a retirement community outside of Florida. If you have this much worry about the bonds, You will never be happy here. We on the other hand love this place and trust the Morse's.

Well said, I love it here too

Willy

me neither
 

"Well said, I love it here too but don't trust the Morse's.

Willy"

Developers are there to make as much money as they can, develop an area and pocket the money

I don't think in this economy you can trust anyone completely, the Morses were sued and lost before, the IRS will get their money, I think you need to develop a community group BEFORE anything else happens, it never hurts to discuss in an open forum and with the talent in The Villages you should pursue options

this is the suit they lost

http://www.sptimes.com/2008/03/10/St...develope.shtml

For everyone who "trust" the Morse Family and believe they would "do the right thing" ... do you have as much faith in them as the clients of Bernie Madoff had in him before they found out he had taken them for every cent they had?

I'm not saying the Morse Family won't step up to the plate and do the right thing if push comes to shove or that they are in any way like Bernie Madoff and what he did, I'm just pointing out that there are a lot of ruthless business people out there.

Comparing Morse to Madoff. Is this where Urban Legends begin?barf

yup
 

:BigApplause:

I'm not dissing the Morse's, but just being realistic about business people and their practices.

Why don't
 

we ever hear anything from The Morse Family about this issue? I don't know but I think it will be a non issue for TV residence so long as there is more development going forward. The "M" family still have a lot to do here and I don't think they would kill the goose that has laid the golden egg. But I wonder why we don't ever hear from them about this issue?

So relax for at least the next five years or so. JMO

I'll bet they would never speak publicly on any issue that might be even remotely controversial. They're attention to only positive statements is a great sales tool. Can 80,00 people be wrong. Could they get away with anything shady for better than 25 years. IMHO, not much of a chance on either count.

They can't get away with it if somebody is paying attention and wants to take them to court, which is the only option with Morse and his minions.

http://www.ccfj.net/CDDVillages$40milllawsuit.html

You are probably correct. All of the retirement communities that we've looked at are the same way, stressing just the positives and the lifestyle.

to link
 

to link look at the ribbon/icon tool bar here click the icon that looks lie a globe and then post your link, hope this helps

http://www.ccfj.net/CDDVillages$40milllawsuit.html

What is it you want to hear from them?

How long have you lived in The Villages?

Someone in the Villages is gonna owe the IRS...
 

http://www.flalottery.com/inet/curre...ent.do?searchI

I hope this link works, I just read that a villager won a million dollars in the lottery last month.

YES. I am trying to get off this subject of gloom and doom.

Read this, smile, and then go back to what you were talking about.:boxing2:

When did you move to The Villages?

Here ya go.....the public statements.


http://www.districtgov.org/IRSupdate.aspx

Thanks for posting the link, bimmertl.

Here is another link on the lawsuit.
http://www.thevillagesfl.us/classactionsettlement.htm

I'm confused. Who are Mr. Morses's minions?

thumbs up
 

:BigApplause:

You don't like the Villages? Why are you clapping?

???
 

I think the Villages is a wonderful place to live, I just don't trust developers, they are following the Disney model, I attended the Disney business management courses

and the clapping is for the link posted

Who exactly is the we that you speak about? I have lived here for almost four years and I do not trust the Morses. Because our local "newspaper" does not really report the news, most of the people in the Villages are not even aware of the IRS bond issue.

Just curious. Did you trust the Morses when you bought into the Villages? How long were you there before you distrusted them? I have been researching the Villages for 2 1/2 years and I trust them. But I also trust my bank, my contractors, my insurance agent, my favorite car salesman, dry cleaner, grocery store etc. When I lose trust I will find another to replace.

I'm sorry, I mean no disrespect, but I probably would have to move if I distrusted my circumstances.

Sorry, I have no intentions of moving just because I do not trust the Morses. I admire the Morses for what they have created here but the bottom line is that they are in it for the money. If they had 100% control of everything here, I probably would move.

One of the things that I think about (not worry about) is to what degree they subsidize some of the things that we enjoy in the community (nightly entertainment, cost to play the championship courses, etc.). Will any of these things we eliminated or reduced when the villages is built out in a couple of years? The real profit for the developer is in the houses that he sells and once all the land is developed, will he pull all subsidies. Like I said, I don't stay up nights worrying about this ( or the IRS bond isuue), but I do think about it.

A lot of my skepticism with the Morses is due to the things the POA have taken him to task for: the lack of reserves for the sold amenities (resulting in a $40 million settlement), the siding issue (they basically took over half my siding off, replaced some sheathing, and rehung the siding and they also resided or rehung a significant number of houses in my neighborhood), payments for repairing sinkholes, retracting the free cable offer - just to name a couple.

I also think it is a real shame the Morses don't interact with community on a regular basis and entertain questions from the residents, like the founder Harold Schwartz was said to do.

BTW, I have never heard of anyone that trusts a car salesman!!!!!!!!

Shaking 80,000 hands would take a long time. Harold knew everyone because there were only 200 trailers at the time. Can you imagine a town hall meeting once a month?

Its a shame, after 2 1/2 years of research, you didn't find TOTV till 2010.
You missed a lot of posts from Villagers that distrusted the developer. They
can't all move.

Willy