Who has the right of way?
 

Today I was driving a golf cart on St Charles Place - the cart path is between the curb and the vehicle lane.

A pickup pulling a trailer overtook me from the rear - I was going about 20 mph and the pickup was going about 30 mph. This was obviously a lawn care crew - mowers, string trimmers, leaf blowers, etc. were in the back of the pickup and on the trailer. The pickup had a "crew cab" - four full-size doors. There was a driver and passenger in the front seat and a passenger in the right rear seat. All the windows were rolled down.

I'm describing all this because of what happened next.

A few seconds after the back of the trailer cleared me, the driver turned on his right directional signal to indicate that he was turning right onto the next side street which was only 50 feet or so ahead of us. AND the passenger in the rear seat started waving his arms - I think to indicate that he wanted me to slow down and yield to the truck/trailer.

That's what I did. I came to nearly a complete stop for a few seconds so as to not broadside the trailer. No carts were behind me. I think I did the right thing because size matters. I would have "lost" in a cart vs. pickup/trailer encounter.

I'm new to driving a cart in TV and have been thinking about this since it happened.

Who should yield in a situation like this? Who has the right of way when a vehicle in front of a cart makes a right turn onto a side street and crosses a cart path to do so?

Let's Think About This
 

Technically, you had the right of way, however, you are in a 1200 lb golf cart largely made with fiberglass and plastic. He is in a 6,000 lb truck with steel bumpers and frame. You did do the right thing and yielded. Golf cart drivers, like motorcycle drivers, need to assume that cars and trucks are not going to stop and act accordingly.

It would sem to me that since he had passed you and was making a proper turn he would have the right of way. I get concerned that when I am making a right turn with my turn signals flashing someone in a golf cart decides to pass on the right.

In any event, when they are "bigger than you" it makes sense to yield. I would also think that if he was making a proper turn and you struck the rear of his vehicle or trailer in this case, you would not only sustain damage or injury then the police would probably cite you.

But then again, I might be wrong.

Is there any situation in TV where a golf cart has right of way over a car or truck?



.

Twice, at the same intersection (Calumet and Legacy), exactly the same thing happened to me. The difference was that neither time did I get any warning that they were going to turn. (no waving, no turn signal) Both times, I had to make those absolute "smash the brake pedal to the floor" emergency stops. Since there are brakes only on the back tires, both times the cart did some funky sliding sideways.

If I had had one of those souped up carts going 35 miles per hour, I wouldn't be writing this today.

I honestly don't know who has the right of way. I would have been nice, though, to have gotten at least a warning.

tomberlin has 4 wheel hydraulic brakes. will stop on a dime. thats why i dont understand all the hype about how awful street legal lsv's are.

At the golf cart school, they will tell you that 100% of the time, vehicles have the right of way over golf carts. Go back through treads on here about how sometimes a car will stop coming in the gate at Bailey Trail and allow a cart to cross. If the car is hit by another car, he is wrong. The car should never stop, the cart should always stop. Carts never have the right of way. At least that is what we were told at that school.

I was also told in TV "Orientation" way back when I was a newbie (2002) that street vehicles always have the right-of-way over carts. Street vehicles must not stop to give carts the right-of-way.

Always yield to a larger mass
 

I saw this thread and figured it was just the old car versus cart at stop signs/gates discussion, but this is different than that. I can say I honestly do not know the answer.

"seems to me" == "Alan does not know, but feels like chatting"

It seems to me the car driver has no right to "cut off" a cart as champion6 or talkhost describe. If not illegal it is certainly rude. The car should have waited for the cart if there was not room to pass and turn without making the cart stop.

This of course gets much trickier when there is a parade of carts. I would not expect the car to wait for the parade to take a right hand turn. In that case it seems to me, the car puts blinker on, the carts yield and the car "merges" a safe distance from turn.

:agree: BBQ hit it spot on.. You did the right thing!! wether or not you had the right of way, or not is not the issue. it was watching you out for number 1.... remember always " CYA " that is the most important move.. Never ASSume anything. You know what happens when people ASSume things will work like they should...

The car always has the right of way. I'm glad you weren't hurt.

Agreed that the automobile/truck always, repeat always, has the right of way. But, the cart driver must always be alert to idiots who cut corners and create unsuspected and unexpected hazards!

I can't tell the number of times a car has slowed or stopped in front of me at a crossing or gate or such location, thinking that I have the right of way! When I vigorously wave them through, they usually look at me, wondering what the h***!

My personal rule: never, ever, forget that the big guys overrule you!

:pepper2:

SWR
:beer3:

I always stay alert and look out to make sure that I am in the clear. Too many people in cars rush pass you to make the right hand turn in front of you.

The best advice is to stay alert and give the cars the right of way even if you are the one in the right.

In this particular situation, does the automobile have the right of way? Both are traveling the same direction in their prescribed lanes. suddenly, the car turns across the path of the cart.

What is the cart driver to do, stop at every through street? That's not practical, in fact it's dangerous. There is no way to know what to do. Golf cart lanes that don't have a stop sign signal to the cart driver that he has free passage through the intersection. Should there be stop signs in the golf cart lane at every intersection?


If the assertion that "cars" always have the right of way holds true, then a car stopped at a side street stop sign can proceed even though there is a cart crossing the intersection.

As time passes, there will have to be more clearly defined rules for these unusual situations. As usual, tragedies call attentions to unique circumstances.

JLK

I think they have the right of way on golf courses. Aside from that, common sense should tell us to surrender to the bigger vehicle. You may be right, but you will still get injured or worse.

Cars Are Right
 

A car with a license is superior in all situations to an unlicensed vehicle.

We are a bit unusual in TV with golf carts going places where there is no golf.

When no rules exist or when we overlook them willingly as we do with our carts then we must use manners in dealing with this issue.

Without manners this loose situation will surely cause some dangerous results.

The above situation did happen to a friend of mine. the lady in the car that turned in front of him and caused $1300 in damages to his cart, was ticketed for not not yielding or an improper turn. I can't remember which but the thing is, she (the car) was at fault.

[QUOTE=Regor;287689]The above situation did happen to a friend of mine. the lady in the car that turned in front of him and caused $1300 in damages to his cart, was ticketed for not not yielding or an improper turn. I can't remember which but the thing is, she (the car) was at fault.[/QUOT

And here is why the car was at fault.

Statute 316.085 is titled limitations on overtaking, passing, changing lanes or changing course.It reads:
(1)No vehicle shall be driven to the left side of the center of the roadway in overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction unless authorized by the provisions of this chapter and unless such left side is clearly visible and is free of oncoming traffic for a sufficient distance ahead to permit such overtaking and passing to be completely made without interfering with the operation of any vehicle approaching from the opposite direction of any vehicle overtaken. In every event the overtaking vehicle must return to an authorized lane of travel as soon as practicable and, in the event the passing movement involves the use of a lane authorized for vehicles approaching from the opposite direction, before coming within 200 feet of any approaching vehicle.
(2) No vehicle shall be driven from a direct course in any lane on any highway until the driver has determined that the vehicle is not being approached or passed by any other vehicle in the lane or on the side to which the driver desires to move and that the move can be completely made with safety and without interfering with the safe operation of any vehicle approaching from the same direction.

I thnk common sense should prevail here.. I would consider the golf cart lane and the regular lane as one lane. Whoever is in front has the right of way. Of course, if it is a car in the front, they need to use their directional signals to show their intentions. Nothing irritates me more than people who don't think they need to use their directional signals, even when it is obvious. What are they trying to do, save their flasher and bulbs ?

This could happen to a bicyclist too!

There is no way, in my mind, that a driver should cut off a golf cart or bicycle to make a right turn. But we all realize that there are people who would do this. Therefore, when in my cart or on a bicycle and I'm about to pass a street bisecting at right, I try to glance quickly behind me to see if a car is approaching that could overtake me and turn right. If a car is close enough that it could overtake me, I slow and let the car pass the intersection (or bisection) before I do. Perhaps I shouldn't do this, but I'd rather be wrong than dead.

I am frequently amazed at the people in cars who drive as if the carts on the road are not there. By this I mean those who block a cart from merging at designated spots near intersections or gates. And those, like the one described in the initial post, who pass a cart and immediately turn in front of the cart. In my cart, I always assume the auto is going to do something stupid in front of me. When in my auto, I anticipate those instances when a cart may need to merge into the travel lane and when I need to turn right when a cart is traveling in the same direction. Better for me to slow and allow the cart to pass on the right or merge than to speed up and try to beat the cart to the turn. Share the road is a good concept.

What she said......Just common sense.

Common Sense? How altruistic. Sadly, common sense never prevails. But then, what is "common sense" to one isn't so with another. We all know that. Therefore, everything has to be defined by law. That's why there are millions of laws on the books.

JLK

Maybe the answer is to do away with the cart lanes. Have the carts drive in the regular lanes. Yes it would slow the flow of traffic, but is that so bad. It would just be through our neighborhoods.

A problem here
 

[quote=downeaster;287697]When you quote laws without including definitions you may confuse the issue.

The definition of "vehicle" is key here. What is it?

I believe Florida usually defines "vehicle", in its traffic laws, as a licensed
vehicle.

If this definition is used are golf carts licensed.

Also is a cart path considered to be part of a road used by licensed vehicles?

I am not good at looking up law, but are folks thinking there is no law on the books that put the driver of the car at fault for crossing in front of a golf cart in such a way that it causes an accident or endangers the operator of a golf cart.

I would bet a beer (at happy hour) that is not the case :beer3:. The driver of the car must be at fault in this example.

So I say to the police officer, "I needed to turn into the side street and I was told in TV cars always have the right of way, so I cut the guy in the cart. He will be fine once we get his cart out of the ditch". :loco:

I believe, doing this to a bike rider is known as a "right hook" and in that case the driver of the car is at fault.

/* Alan is no lawyer */

This very question came up recently at the golf cart safe driving school a few weeks ago. The Sumter County Deputy Sheriff answered it this way: Obviously a car should not intentionally cut off a golf cart. But what is important is that the car make its intentions known so as not to make the driver of the golf cart wonder what is about to happen. The deputy sheriff recommended that prior to making a right turn the car should safely merge into the golf cart lane prior to turning right. In this way the car will prevent the golf cart from attempting to pass on the right or from entering its blind spot as the car slows to make its turn.

I have been in this situation in my cart and my car. This reply sounds like the best advise, and unless told otherwise, I will follow this example for me when in a car. If I don't have safe room to move over into the cart lane before the turn, I will wait for the cart to pass first then make my right turn. If I am in my cart, I will yield to the big guy no matter who gets there first.

May I complicate the discussion a little?

I am seeing lots more "street legal" carts enjoying traveling out with the big guys.

Since they must be licensed and equipped like an automobile, do automobile rules (whatever they may be) apply when they're on the street and golf cart rules (whatever they may be) when they're on a "multi-modal transportation path?" Or, ??????

Frankly, I worry about the safety of all as "street legals" proliferate.

SWR
:beer3:

With all due respect Mr. Deputy Sheriff, this advice is a lot of hooey. Advising automobiles to start driving in the golf cart lanes is insanity. :police:

"Blind Spot?" Every time these cars would drift into the cart lane the carts are in their "blind spot."


Not only do golf carts use those side lanes, but so do bicycles, walkers and runners. The notion that cars should be invited to use those lanes for any reason is making this situation worse.

Those lanes are for golf carts, walkers, bikers and runners. Not cars.

Think for a moment about the walker coming up to an intersection in the golf cart lane, with the intention of walking a left turn. Suddenly, there is now an automobile veering into the lane right at you.

It's dangerous enough for Golf Carts to merge into traffic lanes to make a left turn, let alone telling cars to drive in the golf cart lane to make a right turn.
Just because the deputy was wearing a badge doesn't mean he is an expert.

I wish I had been at this meeting.:mad: I'm no expert either, but "commons sense" as described earlier is at play here.

Right when I think I have it figured out, you come up with another scenario. I am back to wondering now just what would be the right way to do it. This might be a good topic for The Daily Sun to put in an article after talking with the Police. Obviously there is a lot of confusion about this.

I've also had a car turn in front of me with no warning (no signals) causing me to stand on the brakes to avoid hitting her. I believe a cart going straight has right of way over a car turning. Just as if you are on foot crossing a side street, a car doesn't have the right to run you over by deciding to make a turn into you. However, size does matter. I don't walk into car traffic and I practice defensive driving. As I've said before, you're in a vehicle that only goes 20 mph. How big a hurry can you be in? Enjoy the scenery and watch out for the other guy.

[quote=cashman;287785]I appreciate your intentions.

I assure you and our other readers I only wanted to bring the letter of the law into this subject.

You stated, "I believe Florida usually defines "vehicle", in its traffic laws, as a licensed vehicle".

According to Florida Statutes, Title XXIII, Chapter 316.003, Paragraph 75, a vehicle is described as,

(75)VEHICLE.—Every device, in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, excepting devices used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks.

I am hopeful this clears me of your charge "you may confuse the issue". In fact, I believe it clarifies the issue as that was my original intention.

If you want clarification of any other part of the statute quoted by me, simply go the web site of the aforementioned Florida Statutes.

I agree
 

[quote=downeaster;287988]I agree that the driver of the car should yield to everyone on his right before he turns. It is no different than yielding to pedestrians who are crossing the street going the same direction at the car.
BUT, as my dad used to tell me.. you never want to be DEAD RIGHT.. I would always yield to any vehicle to avoid an accident.
My rule number one in life is the same as Boxing... protect yourself at all times.

I used to ride a motorcycle and I know a lot of you still do. You know and I know that just because you have the right of way, doesn't mean the other driver will let you have it. I haven't had the opportunity to drive a golf cart yet, but hopefully, I will be as lucky with ours, when we get one, as I was with my motorcycle. I have had people cut me off while riding, but you just have to watch out for them.

Just had a new experience today. We were driving our golf cart on the multimodal path next to the library. Suddenly I looked in my rear view mirror in time to see a car jump the curb and start to follow me on the path. We waved our arms at the driver to warn her that she shouldn't be on the path and she mouthed "I know, I know" and continued up the path. I pulled over onto the grass (remember my saying earlier that size does matter) and gave her right of way. She continued on and pulled off at the corner. I think she must have forgot that she wasn't driving the golf cart that day. Once again, I'm pretty sure I had right of way but decided I wasn't in that much of a hurry to fight for it.

WHOA!!! How frightening!! Hope that you managed to get their license-plate number and reported the overly aggressive, illegal and most of all seriously dangerous driver!!

I was too shocked and surprised to see a car in my rear view to even think about getting a plate number. I tried to follow her to see her get off the path and make sure she didn't hit anyone, but she was too fast for me.

How bizarre, especially that she mouthed "I know". It does make me wonder if she got a life-threatening emergency call of some kind that made her panic to get somewhere. :( Not defending the action, just trying to understand someone knowingly doing something so dangerous, stupid and bizarre.

suppose it's possible
 

that the driver of the car on the cart path was just in a supreme hurry, but I kind of think the other scenario - forgot she was not driving a golf cart - is the more likely one.

I was an auto claims adjuster for several years, taking numerous recorded statements, and you would just not believe what some people will tell you. You couldn't make it up.

My favorites were these: one a young girl with a recent license, when asked what color her traffic light was, said she "wasn't actually looking, but the light there is 'almost always' red."!?!

Another was a woman making a left turn into a strip center parking lot, turned left across 2 lanes of traffic and was struck by a car which then left the scene. She was injured, taken by ambulance to an ER, and later found out she'd been cited for failure to yield. When I took her statement she told me she was going to fight the ticket. Curious, I asked her why. She told me, "there was no yield sign on my street." (middle of the block).

You gotta love it. And these people had driver's licenses (some don't). You just can NEVER count on the other driver obeying the law or even having common sense, especially in the roundabouts or wherever a roadway and a multi-modal path may meet.