Talk of The Villages Florida

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-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   I Oppose Raising Road Impact Fees (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/i-oppose-raising-road-impact-fees-315089/)

jrandall 01-14-2021 06:02 PM

I Oppose Raising Road Impact Fees
 
As a resident of Sumter County, I oppose the proposal by Oren Miller and Gary Search to raise road impact fees. Sumter County is a model for the State of Florida for Economic Growth and has been attracting business to it for the past several years. The proposed increase is outrageous! The increase will further decimate businesses impacted by the Pandemic and will make investing in Sumter County by potential incoming business less palatable and will likely steer many away. Also I am even more concerned that we may lose the potential for UF to build a hospital and medical facilities in the south which is definitely needed with our growth in population. The raising of the impact fees will damage our Community for years to come.

Mortal1 01-14-2021 06:19 PM

Well you're mighty good at making "what ifs" into will be". Not sure what you guess will actually happen though since there is a guaranteed population of 100k+ to tap for future businesses.

tophcfa 01-14-2021 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrandall (Post 1887478)
As a resident of Sumter County, I oppose the proposal by Oren Miller and Gary Search to raise road impact fees. Sumter County is a model for the State of Florida for Economic Growth and has been attracting business to it for the past several years. The proposed increase is outrageous! The increase will further decimate businesses impacted by the Pandemic and will make investing in Sumter County by potential incoming business less palatable and will likely steer many away. Also I am even more concerned that we may lose the potential for UF to build a hospital and medical facilities in the south which is definitely needed with our growth in population. The raising of the impact fees will damage our Community for years to come.

One sided talking points taken from the Daily Sun.

Stu from NYC 01-14-2021 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 1887522)
One sided talking points taken from the Daily Sun.

I noticed that also.

JoMar 01-14-2021 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortal1 (Post 1887490)
Well you're mighty good at making "what ifs" into will be". Not sure what you guess will actually happen though since there is a guaranteed population of 100k+ to tap for future businesses.

The population is only relevant when the business's are competitive.....impact fees will be reflected in the prices we pay and TV residents aren't receptive to higher prices. States all over the Country are trying to attract businesses by reducing the costs through reduced tax packages to make it desirable for businesses to move there. It's not a new concept. This was a point made during the election but it fell on deaf ears. We are now going to experience reality. What I always find fascinating is we have the ability to simply move if the impact fees negatively impact us, business will need to close or lay off or not come here if they negatively impact them. Is it worth the gamble to save a few hundred bucks a year?

JoMar 01-14-2021 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 1887522)
One sided talking points taken from the Daily Sun.

They weren't talking points, they were comments made by the business community. Do you think the CEO of UF Health wasn't serious? They have two medical facilities here that won't be impacted......and his point was why build a third if the economics don't work. The other businesses also stated they would be hurt if development is slowed.....which comes under the "stating the obvious" heading. I suspect that when the emotions are removed, the County will do what is necessary to attract business and opportunity, provide an environment for those that are here to grow and make decisions that improve the quality of life for all Sumter County. It is their risk to take.

tophcfa 01-14-2021 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoMar (Post 1887527)
impact fees will be reflected in the prices we pay and TV residents aren't receptive to higher prices.

News Flash: TV residents with homes in Sumter county are already paying over half of the impact fees, thanks to the 25% tax increase. If the impact cost of new development can’t be passed along to those creating said costs, or their customers, than such development is not economical. I am extremely pro business, as long as the business is sustainable without being subsidized on the backs of taxpayers.

stan the man 01-14-2021 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 1887525)
I noticed that also.

me to

tophcfa 01-14-2021 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoMar (Post 1887531)
I suspect that when the emotions are removed, the County will do what is necessary to attract business and opportunity, provide an environment for those that are here to grow and make decisions that improve the quality of life for all Sumter County.

Please explain how someone living in the greater Spanish Springs area, who’s property taxes are subsiding the costs created by development happening south of 44, are having their quality of life improved???

Rwirish 01-15-2021 05:47 AM

Let’s all keep paying for the south of 44 development. The new commissioners were elected in part based on this issue. Perhaps the proposed impact fee increase is too high but an increase is needed.

Love2Swim 01-15-2021 05:55 AM

How big are the impact fees that would keep UF Health from opening a third facility here? They stand to make millions off The Villages. I can't believe that some fees will keep them from coming. And its ridiculous to expect existing residents to fund infrastructure for future residents. In any other planned community, the developer would pay for the infrastructure, and recoup his $$ upon sale of the new homes. This is just another way for the Villages Developer to make even more of a profit, off the backs of existing residents.

irishmartin 01-15-2021 05:55 AM

Miller and Search’s platform they run on was about not raising taxes like the previous commissioners? Is this another bate and switch?

airdale2 01-15-2021 06:11 AM

A not for profit hospital will not pay property taxes

Nick B 01-15-2021 06:39 AM

Historically impact fees have never slowed things down in Florida the builder may have to take a little less profit. Oh My!

Northerner52 01-15-2021 06:40 AM

Why doesn't Sumter issue bonds to pay for the road costs that will be paid for by the increase property taxes on the new future homes?

geobet 01-15-2021 06:43 AM

Raising taxes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by airdale2 (Post 1887614)
A not for profit hospital will not pay property taxes

There’s that old belief that The Villages makes money off the hospital.
The Villages Hospital has always been a not for profit institution. It is the largest Medicare payer facility in the country. Could you survive on Medicare pay rates? This is why volunteers and donors are so import to it’s ability to survive. They merged with Leesburg to share services. Leesburg has open heart surgery, The Villages has orthopedic joint replacement and rehab. The merge with UF Shands is a mutual benefit for all 3.

J1ceasar 01-15-2021 06:50 AM

Hilarious .
 
That impact fees have much if anything to do with New businesses . A hospital as example may have $5 million in impact fees but it's a $599 million a year business . Each year.

J1ceasar 01-15-2021 06:51 AM

And even a developer knows they just add to the rent . See how high villages rents are???

wirenail444 01-15-2021 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrandall (Post 1887478)
As a resident of Sumter County, I oppose the proposal by Oren Miller and Gary Search to raise road impact fees. Sumter County is a model for the State of Florida for Economic Growth and has been attracting business to it for the past several years. The proposed increase is outrageous! The increase will further decimate businesses impacted by the Pandemic and will make investing in Sumter County by potential incoming business less palatable and will likely steer many away. Also I am even more concerned that we may lose the potential for UF to build a hospital and medical facilities in the south which is definitely needed with our growth in population. The raising of the impact fees will damage our Community for years to come.

The principle business impacted by these fees is the Villages developer. The impact fees in Sumter county are substantially lower than surrounding counties. The resent 25% tax increase was due to these low impact fees and the fact that the county is building roads for the developers new construction south of the turnpike. All the opposition to the increase in impact fees is coming from the Villages developer (aka, the daily sun). Do not be fooled by the rhetoric.

Kgcetm 01-15-2021 07:30 AM

Put a screw to both those guys. They have been exposed for their civic dishonesty as they have in the past and continue to this day to support the builder at the expense of the taxpayers. These guys are in the process of being fired by the electorate and are attempting to pick their pockets one last time.

Mrmean58 01-15-2021 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 1887592)
Please explain how someone living in the greater Spanish Springs area, who’s property taxes are subsiding the costs created by development happening south of 44, are having their quality of life improved???

Correct me if I'm wrong prior to the recent 25 percent increase when was the last PT increase in sumter county? 10-15 years ago?. The issue is everyone saw 25 percent which sent everyone shorts in a bunch. If the PT had increased incrementally over that time we would have a lot less outrage and had better infrastructure. Part of the issue is most everyone s primary income Soc Sec has been creeping up (.9 percent for 2021)while our Legislative branch just voted themselves a +10 percent pay increase.
Combine that fact with pending tax increases. Something to chew on for breakfast.

jbrown132 01-15-2021 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortal1 (Post 1887490)
Well you're mighty good at making "what ifs" into will be". Not sure what you guess will actually happen though since there is a guaranteed population of 100k+ to tap for future businesses.

If history has taught us anything, increasing the cost of doing business in an area has always resulted in less business.

Dond1959 01-15-2021 07:52 AM

This is not a small increase in impact fees, it is an increase of 100 to 150%. If you think that will not have an impact on businesses and long term revenue for the county you don’t understand basic economics. If the rate is raised by that percentage commercial development will slow dramatically, the number of homes being built will slow.

So you say that’s great we don’t need anymore homes or businesses. But what you don’t calculate is the unemployment increases and costs of social services increases. Revenues for the county actually fall and guess where the county will look to make up the revenue? All those homeowners in Sumter county. The economy here is heavily dependent on the developer and you can hate them. But you increase the impact fee by this magnitude and you are jeopardizing everything we have here.

For those that say I live near Spanish Springs and will never use anything south of 44. If there is a world class research hospital and you or your spouse need that care, you won’t use it? People north of 44 are already using the amenities south of 44 and with the turnpike bridge almost complete I would bet a lot more people north of 44 will be coming down to use the amenities.

Can the impact fee be increased by some amount? Probably so, but there needs to be significant study of the issue to determine the impact, which I hope they do over the next 6 months.

FredJacobs 01-15-2021 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishmartin (Post 1887608)
Miller and Search’s platform they run on was about not raising taxes like the previous commissioners? Is this another bate and switch?

Commissioners Miller and Search were elected to reduce taxes not raise them. Their campaign was based on reversing/reducing the 25% increase in property tax. My 2020 property tax, paid last November, had a reduction of $1.78.

toeser 01-15-2021 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrandall (Post 1887478)
As a resident of Sumter County, I oppose the proposal by Oren Miller and Gary Search to raise road impact fees. Sumter County is a model for the State of Florida for Economic Growth and has been attracting business to it for the past several years. The proposed increase is outrageous! The increase will further decimate businesses impacted by the Pandemic and will make investing in Sumter County by potential incoming business less palatable and will likely steer many away. Also I am even more concerned that we may lose the potential for UF to build a hospital and medical facilities in the south which is definitely needed with our growth in population. The raising of the impact fees will damage our Community for years to come.

What is the purpose of growth if it is not self-funded? Our massive property tax increase is a perfect example why all growth is not good growth. No company run by any competent person would plan an expansion where the new revenue was not enough cover the cost of expansion. It would seem our County would benefit from the same logic.

We constantly hear from politicians about the need to expand the tax base. What's the purpose of that if new expenses eat up that expanded tax base? New roads, new water works, new sewers, new schools, more police all eat into that expanded tax base. Unless growth can actually maintain or reduce taxes paid by existing residents, it should not be pursued.

jrandall 01-15-2021 08:24 AM

Yes this is my concern. Additionally the Pandemic has caused harm to retail and restaurants in our community. I don’t think this year is the time to consider a large increase that will directly and negatively impact them.

heenables 01-15-2021 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishmartin (Post 1887608)
Miller and Search’s platform they run on was about not raising taxes like the previous commissioners? Is this another bate and switch?

This would actually lower your taxes and raise your home value while raising costs for the developers. They need to do that but how much remains the question.

bobnyce 01-15-2021 08:38 AM

Impact Fees (taxes)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jrandall (Post 1887478)
As a resident of Sumter County, I oppose the proposal by Oren Miller and Gary Search to raise road impact fees. Sumter County is a model for the State of Florida for Economic Growth and has been attracting business to it for the past several years. The proposed increase is outrageous! The increase will further decimate businesses impacted by the Pandemic and will make investing in Sumter County by potential incoming business less palatable and will likely steer many away. Also I am even more concerned that we may lose the potential for UF to build a hospital and medical facilities in the south which is definitely needed with our growth in population. The raising of the impact fees will damage our Community for years to come.

Impact fees are taxes. They are taxes imposed on the beneficiaries of new development that create the need for new facilities, roads, schools, utilities, police, fire, etc. They are intended to cover the additional expense of providing these new services while the property taxes levied on the new property will cover the ongoing maintenance of those new services.

The simple question is and always has been - who should pay the cost of necessary new traffic signals, roads, schools, etc., the current property owners or those who benefit from selling or developing the property generating the need for new services.

Taxes will always be an issue but who pays these impact fees is relatively easy - those who benefit from the new homes or business sales that create the IMPACT on our local communities. Is that too much to ask of these developers.

Those costs are often estimated by the developer which can sometimes be unfair. So, yes Impact fees are necessary and should be estimated to the best that they can be. They should be fair. They should be paid by the developer of the new homes or businesses. Keep in mind it is the consumer and taxpayer that pay all bills. Companies pass on their cost to the consumer and government just taxes us to pay their bills.

So, in the end we all pay. Should we also pay for the profits of development and developers? I don't think so. My two cents.

Windguy 01-15-2021 08:41 AM

Rural roads are terrible
 
As a cyclist, I frequently ride on the roads west of TV. They are absolutely abysmal and in great need of paving. Go for a ride west of 301 sometime to see for yourself.

Syd2008 01-15-2021 08:50 AM

I hear a lot of comments on the developer and now hospital and how they are ‘rich enough’ to pay. Remember this also affects small businesses coming in. I tiered increase may be in line but always keep in mind Sumter county is not just the villages. But all I hear is development south of 44. These three commissioners voted in based on looking at entire county.
All we can hope is that the commissioners discuss and listen to all interested parties and not just homeowners. If this job is new take the time to know how your decisions will impact everyone. Lot’s of other places businesses can go in Florida.

donassaid 01-15-2021 08:52 AM

Exactly. It is all about the Developer. How much more can you want than a Billion dollar net worth each?

Topspinmo 01-15-2021 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rwirish (Post 1887602)
Let’s all keep paying for the south of 44 development. The new commissioners were elected in part based on this issue. Perhaps the proposed impact fee increase is too high but an increase is needed.

Every person running for public office has an agenda. Why else would the run? personnel gain? Do you actually think they care about public citizen after the elections is over?

merrymini 01-15-2021 09:22 AM

Disgusting, to propose that kind of a tax increase, and yes, it is a tax increase, after running against a large tax increase.

Bill14564 01-15-2021 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrandall (Post 1887691)
Yes this is my concern. Additionally the Pandemic has caused harm to retail and restaurants in our community. I don’t think this year is the time to consider a large increase that will directly and negatively impact them.

The impact fees only apply to new development. Keeping the impact fees low encourages new development and new businesses. Existing retail and restaurant establishments struggling with the impact from Covid may not want the competition of new development in the area.

I have seen a post by an existing business that is looking to expand. The increased fees would absolutely influence that decision.

OrangeBlossomBaby 01-15-2021 09:30 AM

Impact fee might be $1200 per unit. The developer would pay it once, per unit.
Taxes might go up $600 per unit. The property owner would pay that extra $600 every year.

I think it's in the homeowner's best interest to impose the impact fee, and pay that $1200 spread out over the course of their mortgage (or pay it up front via cash purchase), rather than pay $600 per year extra for every year they live there, until such time as the rates go up again.

Bill14564 01-15-2021 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merrymini (Post 1887736)
Disgusting, to propose that kind of a tax increase, and yes, it is a tax increase, after running against a large tax increase.

The problem with calling it a tax increase is that readers become confused (which I truly believe was the intent of the headline in the paper).

The commissioners ran against the 25% property tax increase. The argument was that the taxes were increased on existing properties in order to keep the impact fees lower on new development. If I remember correctly, the commissioners campaigned that they would roll back the property tax increase and remove some or all of the discount being applied to the impact fees. This is exactly what they seem to be proposing now.

airstreamingypsy 01-15-2021 09:37 AM

Of course the developer should pay the impact fees. Why should Sumter County residents, who are watching their once beautiful area be destroyed, pay.... that's adding insult to injury. It's outrageous that any Sumter County resident should have their taxes raised 25% to pay for something the developer is building and will profit from.

LianneMigiano 01-15-2021 09:46 AM

In addition, businesses can (and do) write off every little expense THAT YOU AND I CANNOT😭😭😭😭😭

LowOnCash 01-15-2021 09:46 AM

Yeah, God forbid that any taxes are not thrown on the residents to absorb. Then there is always those residents who like to be abused and like paying extra fees as if we're not paying enough now!

vermonster 01-15-2021 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrmean58 (Post 1887652)
Correct me if I'm wrong prior to the recent 25 percent increase when was the last PT increase in sumter county? 10-15 years ago?. The issue is everyone saw 25 percent which sent everyone shorts in a bunch. If the PT had increased incrementally over that time we would have a lot less outrage and had better infrastructure. Part of the issue is most everyone s primary income Soc Sec has been creeping up (.9 percent for 2021)while our Legislative branch just voted themselves a +10 percent pay increase.
Combine that fact with pending tax increases. Something to chew on for breakfast.

Please don't confuse an increase in property tax with an increase in the rate of property tax. Perhaps it was not necessary to increase the rate of tax over the past decade because each property owner has paid a slow but steadily increasing amount of tax because that fixed rate is applied to the increased assessed value of his/her property. And as a general comment to this post, I would like to point out that growth has its detriments as well as its benefits. You would not know this from reading the Daily Sun in which growth without end is only beneficial, as thousands of acres of productive Florida land is converted to what is considered necessary for human habitation. This is land that is no longer naturally growing trees and grasses, providing homes and habitats for wildlife, replenishing the aquifer, etc. The economic justification for impact fees is to incorporate the true and total costs of development (not just the direct costs) into the process so as not to transfer it to others (the environment, existing property owners, etc.)


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