Heat Pumps
 

As I have lived in the South since 1946, I have seen a lot of extremes in the weather. The one thing it has taught me is NEVER OWN A HOME WITH A HEAT PUMP.
The recent debacle in TEXAS should make everyone sit up and take notice.
The heat pump is not efficient below 40 degrees.
During extreme cold, below 25 degrees an electric heat strip takes over to provide heat.

A home with natural gas will have hot water, a stove that works, a gas fireplace that works and the ability to have an emergency generator to provide electricity during extreme cold or during electrical outages.

I guess that eliminates the vast majority of the homes here for you ??? We have had a few days (well, hours) below 30 degrees here in the 4 years we've been here and we have been warm and cozy and a few hours later the temps are in the 60's. :) I guess if we get down to the teens and have a snow/ice storm we might regret the heat pump. :D :D If that happens there will be a whole lot of new climate change believers.

In The Villages, I am happy to have an all electric house with a heat pump. If the power goes out for an extended period, I will get in the car and drive to the nearest hotel with power.

Isn't it great to know if the heat pump cannot 'catch up' due to it being too cold that they automatically switch to quick reacting resistance heat and this technology has been used for over fifty years?

In Oregon, I had a large home with 2 heat pumps. They had natural gas heat as backup when temperatures were below 35°.

Never a problem for 40 years, unless there was a power failure. With no power, the HVAC system blowers won't blow. We did have a wood burning fireplace for heat, and lots of warm clothing and blankets.

Upgraded the heat pumps and natural gas furnaces every 12-15 years.

No complaints.

One time we had a power failure that lasted almost a week due to an ice storm. Once power was restored, we did purchase an emergency gas generator. Best purchase we ever made as we never had a power failure of more than a few hours. Never had to fire up the generator except for maintenance. We could tolerate a few hours of no power.

Very happy with our heat pump HVAC system in our Marsh Bend home.

Had heat pumps on two homes in Maryland where winter temps regularly fall below 30 degrees. Never had a problem. Yes, at a certain temperature the resistance heating will kick in. The resistance heat kept our home warm, the only downside was the extra electricity it used.

I have heat pumps in my VA. home. Over 30 years and they work fine. I have a generator in case the power goes out. Much more reasonable cost.

I've had heat pumps for 49 years, first in Cary, N.C. and now here in the villages. Never had a problem keeping warm and never had to worry about having a gas leak. Nine out of ten house fires in the villages were due to gas leaking or set off by lightening hitting the gas lines running thru the attic. Great idea to run gas filled metal lines where lightening is must likely to strike.
It was reported that in Texas, the natural gas well heads froze up and the gas fed electric power plants had to shut down. So much for gas being a reliable source of power.
I was told a few years ago that no new houses below 466A had gas as a choice. That must have changed.

South of 44, natural gas is available in Marsh Bend which is west of the turnpike. East of the turnpike, there's no natural gas.

As for lightning, several months ago a home in our neighborhood was struck by lightning. A casualty was the natural gas pipe in the attic which developed a slow leak and caught fire. Fortunately it was discovered early, but still had minor damage to some of the trusses as well as the roof. Neighbor was quite lucky. Lightning struck the roof, traveled down the Ethernet cables in the attic and office, the front light post, and then to the gas pipeline.

Lightning will find a way to do the damage!

Well, since the gas and electric were out in Texas, a gas furnace wouldn't have worked too well either. Propane possibly but you still need a genset to run the electronics.

I suppose you're suggesting 140,000 residents have a wood burner backup for the few days annually where the temp is below 35 for 4 hours in the morning?

This all well and good. I do not disagree. Soooo will you pay to have gas piped into our neighborhood so we can enjoy your suggestions?

Please move to the tropics. Very simply the reason so many people use what they do is that certain developers are too cheap to have the gas company to put lines in. Luckily I live outside the bubble, have gas and cook with it as well . The problem Texas has is they have a laissez-faire pricing system which allows huge jumps up and down which is good for 90% of the time they also have a government which for years has delayed putting in place expensive regulations regarding of electric lines and power generating plants further they are not interconnected with other states electrical supplies due to the large size of Texas they felt they never needed it. If you would be just a little bit you would see how the west and northern parts of Texas did fine. And don't blame one particular political party as I can come back at you and blame The Californians for the same problem they had for many years they were the other party

Well you will be passing on most homes in TV.

This is not true. I have a Fujitsu heat pump, and it makes heat down to -15 below zero. There are no heat strips. Those units in my house in Maine blow hot air, that I can attest to down to -5 degrees below zero. Haven't seen it colder than that. Mitsubishi will make heat down to -5 degrees below zero. I have a mini split system with three heads that operate off of 1 36k condenser, ones a 18k head that heats and cools our all glass 12' x 30' Florida room. One is a 12k that does the same for a 16' x 25' family room, and the third is a 6k which does a back hall and lav. This is now my primary heat. My propane run FHW baseboard with 4 zones has now become our back up.

The best insurance against power outages, which can happen anywhere, for many reasons, is a whole house generator. Propane or Natural gas is the best. Switches on automatically when the power goes out. Ours is propane operated Genrac. Which I can monitor from the villages all winter. It runs every Wednesday at 2pm for 5 minutes as an exercise. Best investment we or anyone could make.

So will everyone else so good luck getting a room.

Some developers can’t extort $ they demand from the gas company but can from the electric company. Take a look at The Villages built south of 466A. All electric. Residents lose because the developer couldn’t squeeze more from the gas company.

Centigrade or Fahrenheit?

Here is a better explanation of the efficiency of heat pumps you mentioned.

At What Temperature Is a Heat Pump NOT effective?

Houston Texas streets were iced an their airports closed. One size doesn’t fit all of Mother Natures disasters.

We have EM electric heat on one of our two heat pumps. We also have many radiator type space heaters we brought from Minnesota. We had the space heaters just in case our furnace quit working. I bought those space heaters after two years in a row, where I had to call the much more expensive emergency service to repair the furnace. With the space heaters, I could limp by and have the regular furnace service.

We already signed up to have a whole natural gas automatic start up electric generator installed. There’s a huge backlog for installations, and it won’t be installed till around May.

But there are water pipes in the attic, which concern me if an Arctic Blast ever hits Florida. Maybe I should try to have a way to drain the pipes installed before an Arctic Blast hit Florida, if that ever happens. The lawn and shrub irrigation system has no connection for an air compressor to blow out the water. Maybe I should install a blow out connection and buy an air compressor, just in case I ever need to blow out the sprinkler system.

It might not be a bad idea to do things to prepare for an Arctic Blast in Florida, if that ever happens in the future. The people in Texas probably wish they would have prepared better.

Keeping many cases of bottled water is an easy way to start preparing for emergencies. The generator is the next east step. Having a way to drain and blow out your water pipes would be a smart thing to do, before the crisis begins, if the crisis ever happens in Florida.

A big outage in Maryland forced me to go to a hotel and the closest room I could get was 50 miles away in another state.

Amen, it does no good to have gas without electricity to run the blower. Wood backup is the only other alternative to a propane powered generator system. I too had a heat pump up north for 19 years and never had a problem with it and that was in the early years when they just started to install them.

My friends in Austin with 2 cats and 2 parrots and themselves to try to keep warm, finally had power restored after 86 hours in freezing temps.
It's been quite the ordeal for them. They're definitely stressed, fatigued and upset at the cascade of failures with their electrical grid, lack of planning and redundancy failures with the water system.
Hopefully, they'll continue to have power kept on even if it's only on a rotation system.
After living in the Virgin Islands all my life, before moving to FL, I've always had a whole house generator.
When we get blasted with Cat 4 and 5 hurricanes, it's not unusual for our electrical grid to be down for 3 - 4 months, sometimes.
But we're not in freezing temps and snow.
The home I purchased here has electric heat plus a fireplace which I've never used, (I'd have to find a YouTube video on how to properly use it) a huge stack of chopped wood behind the fenced in area at the back of the .50 acre property. After hearing about my friends ordeal in freezing temps, I looked at it with new appreciation.
I may never have to use it but it's there.
After Irma blew thru up here in 2017,
I purchased a whole house propane generator for this home. 10 days without power up here is totally different than being without power in the VI as most homes and businesses are equipped with generators, there.
I truly can't imagine dealing with all they and other affected Texans have had to endure in freezing conditions. Hope they get help and things back to some sort of normalcy, soon without too big a cost of life.

That doesn't seem very far to go.

Actually in Texas that is not true. As is Florida Texas is flat, the utilize electric fans to push gas through the lines to your home. Once gas is no longer in the lines if there is no electric there is no gas. Lived in TexS for Hurricane Ike. No electric for 15 days. People died from heat. Neighbors had the fancy generac and it stopped working on day 2

Well first off heat pump technology has greatly improved. Next, gas still need electricity to move and run your electronics in your gas heater. I know you talked about a generator but what of when the cost becomes insane which it will. If your serious you need a wood stove. Take it from a 44 year Alaskan that has had back up for as many years.

But while you’re checked into the hotel that still has power and heat, what’s happening to your home, when the pipes are freezing and breaking?

That seems like a solution if you’re just renting a vacation home on a very temporary basis. In that case, you don’t own the home, and someone else has to clean up the mess and pay for the damage.

If you own your home, drained or blew out your pipes, in the attic and under the lawn, then maybe then maybe staying at a hotel that has electricity, heat, and water, is a viable solution.

Ohiobuckeye
 

I can be a witness to what you said. We live in Argyle, TX. Of all things why would builder put a Tankless Water Heater outside ours is & ours froze & bursted this week & water got inside one room in the house. Now we’re on a waiting list to get it fixed & no water anywhere in the house.listen to Amexsbox about Heat Pumps. We lived in TV for 8 yrs. Oh yea, some people had TWH in their garages & they bursted in there too. Texas right now is a real mess right now!

That nearest hotel might be in the next state. Many will also be thinking the same thing.

Are you thinking about getting a natural gas or propane whole house generator for your home now?

Did you have a supply of about 12 to 20 cases of drinking water? I only have 5 cases of drinking water in my home. Maybe I should buy another dozen cases of drinking water to help prepare for emergencies. If you wait for the crisis to already happen, then the store shelf’s will be empty! They make collapsible water storage containers that could be filled with water while you still have water, for non-drinking water use.

Maybe after you have your pipes replaced, you could have a way to drain or blow out the pipes. To protect the water pipes in the attic or under the lawn, you’d need a way to remove the water before it freezes. Several space heaters would keep the inside of your home warm enough so that it doesn’t get close to freezing inside the house. Maybe that instant water heater could have a drain on it.

One thing I thought about the Texas Arctic Blast disaster is turning off your water main valve, before that valve freezes and the valve can’t be turned!

After going through that disaster, are you going to make changes to your home, so you can respond better to that situation, in case that type of disaster ever re-occurs in your lifetime?

The Texas Arctic Blast disaster certainly started me thinking what things I could do to prepare to respond to that type of disaster, in advance, in case it ever happens in Florida. Like preparing for hurricanes, you can’t wait till the last minute to start responding to the disaster.

You are living in the past. That USED to be true, even a few years ago, but the best heat pumps today are much more efficient and work well at lower temps, to the point where they are being used even in Vermont. Putting the heat pump on the south side of the house where it is warmer helps a lot, too. Quite often the temp may be 30°, but on the south side in the sun the temp is 60°.

An air conditioner is a heat pump. I can't imagine anyone wants to live in Florida without one of those.

Heat pumps use a compressor to move the heat. The higher the temperature difference, the higher the pressure ratio and the energy required. As you can imagine, if you want to keep your house at 70 and it's 10° outside it will take a lot more pressure than if it's 50°. It's not easy to design a compressor that works efficiently with a big range of pressures.

One way that works well technically is to pump water through pipes into the ground, which will heat the water. The compressor then has a fairly constant 50-60° temperature to work with. You have to bury a lot of pipes deep enough to collect the heat from the earth - not so deep actually unless you don't have a big yard in which case you have to dig a deep vertical hole. Don't know the cost but not cheap compared to conventional technology.

Tesla is using a heat pump for heating their Model 3 and Y. Maybe their technology can be used in home units.

Like anything nothing is perfect or ever will be. As far as overlapping systems. It is a matter of cost to buy, space for it, maintenance, etc etc etc etc. In terms of being in the south since 1946. I admit, I was not even born then but a lot has changed. There is a good chance you did not even have central air conditioning. I'm not sure they even had heat pumps then. Air conditioning. If, you had it was far less efficient.

Emergency generator running on natural gas that would carry your entire home would be a serious expense. Maintenance, space, etc.

Air conditioning, or heat pump? We can choose to get two. One in case the other one fails. Same is true of a generator.

Choice, there is shortage of choices

Yes, the system you refer to in paragraph 3 is a water cooled condenser, which takes advantage of the constant ground temperature to transfer heat to and from the refrigerant. It is more energy efficient, but very expensive. Almost all residential heat pumps used in the country have air cooled condensers, which are much less expensive and use air, not water, for heat transfer.

What you say as far as putting the heat pump compressor on the south side of the home is true as far as heat. However since we are using the same unit for cooling you pay back when you are cooling. I've not seen anyone suggest putting a deciduous tree in to shade your compressor in the summer but leave it opened to gather heat in the ????? winter. I would expect you would be regularly need to take the machine apart to get rid of leaves inside of it.

The only way the location of the condenser has much effect on the efficiency of the unit is if you can change the outside air temperature. The heat is transferred by blowing the outside air over the coil that has refrigerant flowing through it. The heat transfer is by convection, not radiation. The outside air temperature is usually pretty constant around the house, so anything you do will have little effect on heating or cooling efficiency.

Even gas homes were shut down in Texas as propane pumping stations saw equipment freezing... I had a heat pump in Pennsylvania and it was fine although it was more expensive during cold weather as it had to use the electrical element.. but it worked fine.

The OPs avatar said he has lived in Texas and Louisiana, I don't consider them as the real south. Any place that gets snow, isn't the real south. I have all electric since 2011 and my highest electric bill, winter or summer until this year has been $91. January set the record, it was $126, a small price to pay.

I made up my mind a long time ago I would never own a home with gas. In '78 I rented a home in Pensacola while I custom built my permanent home. I couldn't be choosy since it was only for 3 or 4 months. I found a home with no hot water. I noticed the garage was brand new but the rest of the home was a 30 year old rancher. The gas hot water heater in the garage was new, but not connected yet.

When I asked what was going on. They said a neighborhood kid was cutting the grass and set his can of gasoline down in the garage after filling the lawnmower, and he failed to put the gas cap back on the can. The fumes moved across the garage floor to the heater's pilot and blew up the garage and half the kitchen. One person was killed.

sound like you are a trained HVAC Tec.

Take a look at geothermal heat pumps. They use the ground or nearby water as their heat source. They are extremely efficient, even in cold temperatures.